ProCharger

[02HoWaRd26]

Curious why we don’t see any ProChargers in the Marine world. They are all over the track and you don’t see Whipple on the track. So anyone have any legit reason to stay away from ProCharger? I have the opportunity to do one on my boat right now and well cannot find anything good or bad for that matter on the subject.

 

[locogringo]

Friend had one on his 25 ft Eliminator Eagle years back for over 4 years with no problems at all, and then sold the boat.

It was a good set up with his motor (which I think was a built 502 if I remember correctly.

 

[RaceTec]

I think the primary reason is plumbing and intercooler location? Someone like @obnoxious001 or @BoostPower would have better info than me...

 

[FreeBird236]

Friend had one on his 25 ft Eliminator Eagle years back for over 4 years with no problems at all, and then sold the boat.

It was a good set up with his motor (which I think was a built 502 if I remember correctly.

Maybe Eliminator promoted Pro Chargers, because they used to be quite common on them.

 

[pronstar]

I had a Procharger, here’s my opitnon:

Same reason why high revving DOHC motors aren’t so popular. Most boaters want low-end torque to get out of the hole, and a flat torque curve which requires a flat boost curve.

A centrifugal blower has a rising boost curve that doesn’t build boost until rpm rise.


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[LargeOrangeFont]

Curious why we don’t see any ProChargers in the Marine world. They are all over the track and you don’t see Whipple on the track. So anyone have any legit reason to stay away from ProCharger? I have the opportunity to do one on my boat right now and well cannot find anything good or bad for that matter on the subject.

Lack of torque and boost at lower RPM. You have to spin the engine higher to make more boost with a pro charger. Whipple is max boost instantly at any RPM.

 

[Tank]

Pro Charger has been used in marine application for a long, long time! And I've never heard anything bad about them. I think like LOF said though, The Whipple is a more efficient. I would personally rather have a slow build to boost blower like Pro-Charger over say a whipple for the simple fact instant, low end / high torque power on a heavy boat (planing) equals a lot of blown drives.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Thanks for the feedback, sounds like they could possibly be better with a smaller wheel. A good mix of lag vs less lag could be good.

 

[franky]

I had a centrifugal blower on a Cole 20.5. 840hp under hatch idled at 650rpm. It was a Vortech and I built my own intercooler and did my own plumbing with installed a wastegate. It was dialed in, MSD boost retard, boost referenced regulator etc. Ran awesome. The trick is setting it all up to work right together otherwise you will burn up the motor and blame it on the part.

I think the procharger kit looks like a garage built prototype made from parts laying around that they just put into production.

 

[Tank]

I had a centrifugal blower on a Cole 20.5. 840hp under hatch idled at 650rpm. It was a Vortech and I built my own intercooler and did my own plumbing with installed a wastegate. It was dialed in, MSD boost retard, boost referenced regulator etc. Ran awesome. The trick is setting it all up to work right together otherwise you will burn up the motor and blame it on the part.

I think the procharger kit looks like a garage built prototype made from parts laying around that they just put into production.

LOL, I always thought that too. They are NOT sexy at all.

 

[zx14]

I had one for many years, before I put on the quad rotor. Same top speed same 32p bravo. The difference is down low, which is perfect on a boat, saves your drive and other parts. I had 8 trouble free years on my 540 , taught the kids to ski and all the other family boat stuff, all in a 26 Daytona. I pulled it for the quadrotor, and honestly, it’s cost me nothing but money since. But heck, it looks cool.

 

[Carlson-jet]

Not enough bling possibly. They are very effective and I would say probably would add life to an underrated drive.

zx14 beat me to the punch.

 

[Ultra247]

I run a procharger on a 496 in my magic. I ran the same motor in an Ultra for 4 years and then moved it to the magic. As far as I know, the 496 has not been built. It is a 2002 motor and has had the procharger on it for most of its' life. I run it easy. It doesn't start to build any positive boost until 4000 rpm. I'm set up for 3.5 psi at 5000 rpm. The motor was dyno'd at 500 hp. It's a 496 mag so stock was 375 hp. Every time I run it I wonder if this is the time that it will let go. So far, it's held up for 6 years with me and unknown before that. I generally run it between 3000 and 4000 rpm for cruising. I'm looking for a 525 for the magic but I know that I'll still be at 500hp when I'm done. When the 496 let's go, rebuild it with forged internals and keep going? I've been told 650hp at that point. If I was going to build, I would probably Whipple for low end torque but the Pro Charger has done well for me so far...

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I run a procharger on a 496 in my magic. I ran the same motor in an Ultra for 4 years and then moved it to the magic. As far as I know, the 496 has not been built. It is a 2002 motor and has had the procharger on it for most of its' life. I run it easy. It doesn't start to build any positive boost until 4000 rpm. I'm set up for 3.5 psi at 5000 rpm. The motor was dyno'd at 500 hp. It's a 496 mag so stock was 375 hp. Every time I run it I wonder if this is the time that it will let go. So far, it's held up for 6 years with me and unknown before that. I generally run it between 3000 and 4000 rpm for cruising. I'm looking for a 525 for the magic but I know that I'll still be at 500hp when I'm done. When the 496 let's go, rebuild it with forged internals and keep going? I've been told 650hp at that point. If I was going to build, I would probably Whipple for low end torque but the Pro Charger has done well for me so far... View attachment 941784

That is a mild setup and will probably (hopefully) continue to live a happy life!

 

[pronstar]

Thanks for the feedback, sounds like they could possibly be better with a smaller wheel. A good mix of lag vs less lag could be good.

A smaller wheel will bring more boost down low, but it still has a rising boost curve which usually means you’re out of the compressors efficiency range as the revs rise.

If you think of them as belt-driven turbos, it makes their pros and cons a bit more evident.

I think centrifugal blowers do have their place, folks just need to know what they’re good at...and what they’re not good at.

I absolutely believe a rising boost curve is much easier on hardware.

My procharger put 10.5 psi max into my 5.4L Expedition, and there’s no way that motor would have survived 10.5 psi from a Whipple or a turbo.


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[02HoWaRd26]

LOL, I always thought that too. They are NOT sexy at all.

Not enough bling possibly. They are very effective and I would say probably would add life to an underrated drive.

zx14 beat me to the punch.

Not that ugly in their new stuff either tho......

 

[Apex svt]

@Tank @franky
Procharger pro’s are the soft lead in and power on the big end for saving drives. I installed a kit on our old 25OL. Very nice kits, no complaints, gave us zero issues.

As Franky was saying,(I haven’t seen it in the marine world) waste gating it would fix the “low end” lag. For those that don’t know. You over pulley the blower and waste gate off the extra air (say a 5# spring in the gate). That way you have full boost at low RPM.

That being said, the mid range punch out of a Whipple is right there. And you don’t have to worry about being out of the efficiency range of the blower.

 

[Apex svt]

Not that ugly in their new stuff either tho......
View attachment 941801

Have any close ups of that port motor exhaust? Looks impressive the way they pie’d it together.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Have any close ups of that port motor exhaust? Looks impressive the way they pie’d it together.

No i dont and they didn’t do that during the ProCharger install that was part of the original rigging from my understanding

 

[Tank]

Not that ugly in their new stuff either tho......
View attachment 941801

Have any close ups of that port motor exhaust? Looks impressive the way they pie’d it together.

That matching blue does look nice against the Merc blue 525. And holy shit! That's some metal work on that exhaust!! Probably would've opted with a direct L after the headers and go out the sides!

 

[petie6464]

Mostly you don't see them from pure ignorance. Innovation in the marine industry is like a tar pit on a cold day.

Look at what Steve Morris has done with them, its pretty insne, he's primarily a drag race guy but you get the picture of what's possible if you have the desire to do something creative.

 

[Bowtiepower00]

There was a dude (offshoreexcursion) who had a pair of pro chargers on 500efis in a 33 outlaw over on OSO. My favorite Baja, bar none. Great running boat. I think it’s the package/marketing that held the Pro chargers back, not the actual performance.

 

[rivermobster]

I'm tripin on some of these responses...

ProCharger makes no less than 33 different units plus 11 more just for marine applications, so you can tailor the boost to do whatever you want. I installed one on a V10 raptor many years ago. That thing made shit tons of power Instantly off idle. The truck was a total dog as it sat bone stock! It was a beast when the install was done. It would chirp the tires at pretty much every shift. It came with a full programmer for the engine and trans. The customer was beyond stoked.

I don't remember all the specifics about it, but the one thing that was trippy was that it dumped the air charge at idle. It was VERY noisy standing in front of the truck at idle! It must have had an open vent bypass valve on it: https://www.procharger.com/procharger-bypass-valves

I'm pretty sure you can have a system designed to have boost at ANY RPM. And as much boost as you want...

Would I use one? Hell yeah.

 

[pronstar]

Not that ugly in their new stuff either tho......
View attachment 941801

They’ve come a long way from when I had mine, looks pretty good!


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[pronstar]

Back when I had my procharged Expedition, I had a ton of friends with Lightnings. Most guys put whipples on them.

One guy from New York, I think his name was Dom, started with a turbo swap then put a huge F1 Procharger on his, it made stupid power...he was still dialing it in when I got out of that scene.

He dyno-tuned trucks all over the country, usually folks flew him out but he had his truck in CA when he tuned mine (and a bunch of others). I’d never seen a motor puke coolant from lifting the heads on the dyno before...it was insane.

At the end info the day, you still have a rising boost curve, even if controlling it with a wastegate. Some guys like that, others don’t.

So it’s good that we have choices - centrifugal, twin-screw, roots, turbo...pick the one that suits your application the best.


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[farmo83]

Long time family friend had a procharged 540 on his 26 Daytona, it was somewhere between 1000 and 1100. He ran it for about 15 years on a stock bravo XR. Never had a problems with it that I know of. He upgraded to a 30 Daytona a teague 825(whipple). Let's just say now he keeps a spare drive handy.

 

[jnmn]

I have had them on my 38FT cat for 7 years now, zero problems, I'm running 1.25 gears 30 pitch Hering 5 blades, and AADS phase 4 drives, and I love the fact that the boost comes in at 3500 RPM. it really helps the drive line survive, and once the hull frees up and they kick in it pulls real hard up to 120 MPH. Trouble free systems.

 

[81Sprint]

I've got one in my Nordic on a built 502, i'm happy with it. It gets the heavy boat on plane pretty quick, and its running low boost so it will last

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Back in the day HTM was one of the only Mercury certified shops that could install a Pro-charger on an out of the box Merc engine and NOT void the factory warranty (at least on the engine, don't know about the drive warranty).

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[02HoWaRd26]

So if they are so gentle on the drive etc how do you prop up and get on plane the same day?

 

[rivermobster]

So if they are so gentle on the drive etc how do you prop up and get on plane the same day?

I'm sure you know that it's easy to abuse an IO. If you don't abuse it (high idle speeds, getting the prop out of the water, wot from idle, etc...) any drive will last a long time, even with a lot of hp in front of it.

It's a package deal...

Everything has to work together and be tuned properly. Procharger is not new to this game. I suggest you give them a call and get the info you need straight from them, and not from us jackwagons on here!

Let us know what they say...

 

[02HoWaRd26]

I'm sure you know that it's easy to abuse an IO. If you don't abuse it (high idle speeds, getting the prop out of the water, wot from idle, etc...) any drive will last a long time, even with a lot of hp in front of it.

It's a package deal...

Everything has to work together and be tuned properly. Procharger is not new to this game. I suggest you give them a call and get the info you need straight from them, and not from us jackwagons on here!

Let us know what they say...

I’ve actually been in real close contact with one of their main guys and I’m hoping to hear more today. But wanted to hear from some people in the Marine world with no bias, and hopefully some real experiences. I’ve gotten some great feedback from this thread as well some pm’s so hopefully I’ll have my deal set this week.

 

[CanyonLakeDave]

I had Pro-charger’s on twin Merc 500 efi’s in a Cigarette Top Gun. Exactly: In order to save XR’s I like how the power built up and did so fast. This boat ran for 800 hours before total rebuilds by GT. I’d run these again any day, If setup correctly.

 

[81Sprint]

So if they are so gentle on the drive etc how do you prop up and get on plane the same day?
[/QUOTe

I put my tabs all the way down, ease into the throttle, and start tabbing up. usually puts me on plane in around 10-15 seconds depending on how much weight is in the boat.

 

[69hondo]

I have an M1 Procharger in my 27 foot Eliminator Fundeck. Mild build very conservative cam. Boat weighs 5000LBS dry. I spin a 28 pitch through 1.5 gears. Gets out of the hole good with a moderate load. GPS at 72 with 50 gallons of fuel at 4500 RPM with 6 adults an 4 kids with the bimini up making about 4LBS. Engine let go end of summer but that was an oil pressure issue. Going to get with Alexi over winter and come up with a better cam/ECU tune. One thing I will say is they are loud. I like the wine but its loud.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Curious why we don’t see any ProChargers in the Marine world. They are all over the track and you don’t see Whipple on the track. So anyone have any legit reason to stay away from ProCharger? I have the opportunity to do one on my boat right now and well cannot find anything good or bad for that matter on the subject.

Centrifugal blowers like Prochargers are very efficient, but boost is directly dependent on RPM and rises linear to input speed.

The problem is that while you may make 1000hp and spin a 34 pitch prop at 6000rpm, you need to make that 34 pitch prop get the boat on plane at 2600rpm and at that RPM you may not make enough boost (and therefore torque) to swing that big prop and roll the boat over. But on the plus side - they end up being easier on drives as they don't pound the drive at low RPM with torque

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Centrifugal blowers like Prochargers are very efficient, but boost is directly dependent on RPM and rises linear to input speed.

The problem is that while you may make 1000hp and spin a 34 pitch prop at 6000rpm, you need to make that 34 pitch prop get the boat on plane at 2600rpm and at that RPM you may not make enough boost (and therefore torque) to swing that big prop and roll the boat over. But on the plus side - they end up being easier on drives as they don't pound the drive at low RPM with torque

It looks like I’d see 785-800hp now i spin a 28p Bravo to the limiter world i assume a 32 would be near perfect up top. But to roll the boat would be a day long process it looks like.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It looks like I’d see 785-800hp now i spin a 28p Bravo to the limiter world i assume a 32 would be near perfect up top. But to roll the boat would be a day long process it looks like.

You just need to hammer it to get it to roll over

I'll agree that the Procharger will be easier on drives than a Whipple, but think of it as adding a bit of midrange and more top end power.

Personally in my mind I see it as a great power adder to add 100 HP on the top end with 5-7 PSI.

 

[traquer]

I would run one any day, especially on a stout 454 or 502 mag. On a 21 or 24' boat you can get some serious speed for cheap.

That being said, old buddy of mine blew his 454 but he wanted to hit 100mph and wasn't happy with 90, so..

 

[n2otoofast4u]

The PC thing is cool. My buddy (Arrin Morris) bought a setup and we installed it on his 500EFI deal. It was cool, it made power, yada yada. It was also a V bottom. I'd have a real hard time going to a PC on a 525 when the Whipple stuff is so dialed in, and a much more common theme. Either will be cool, but I can see getting that 26 to roll over with a BIG prop could be a bitch!

For reference, my 25 standard deck Dayton with a 632 that made close to 800 had a 32 on it. It was a bitch to get on plane at times.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Looks like they even have a new logo going on now

 

[02HoWaRd26]

From Calibration and Engineering

Our fuel system should be as good or better than anything else on the market.

2 Bar Map Sensor (to properly read boost level to engine)
78lb Fuel Injectors from brand leader (DW)
Fuel Rail is left stock (it can handle plenty more HP then 800hp)
High Flow #8 lines and aftermarket regulator (can handle way more than 800hp)
Twin 350lph OEM factory electric fuel pumps (located in surge tank)
Offshore race style surge tank (no risk of fuel starvation even on low fuel or large wave jumps)
Return line system included (no heating of fuel or chance of vapor lock)
PCM Programing (to account for all these aspects and timing changes for ignition)
Boost pressure is 8psi (pump gas friendly for 91 or 93 octane usage)

All docking, cruising, and driving manors are left as stock. (idle is actually cleaned up a little bit from stock). Other than moderate to heavy throttle where loads more power comes from the forced air

 

[Gelcoater]

Maybe Eliminator promoted Pro Chargers, because they used to be quite common on them.

They didn’t really “promote” them but....
In the 90s the Hp500 and 525 were expensive.
Many opted for the 502 Mag HO, then added the Vortec or Procharger setup. They ended up having more power than the blue engines and spent less to get it.

Fasted boat I’ve been in was a 22 Daytona with the 502/Blackhawk drive combo with a Vortec. Was sort of sleeper, all under the hatch. Was easy on the drive and accelerated like gangbusters.

Ran 113-114 off the trailer (on radar) with the first props selected. Don’t remember what it did after they played with props some.
I’d run one with zero hesitation.

 

[Cdog]

Back in the day HTM was one of the only Mercury certified shops that could install a Pro-charger on an out of the box Merc engine and NOT void the factory warranty (at least on the engine, don't know about the drive warranty).

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Yeah Steve was big into them and so was I at the time. We discussed a 540 with a big PC on it. Then he had his accident. I was about to go that direction.

 

[AZLineman]

Prochargers work fantastic. Ran one on my 454 mag ho in my 28 powerquest for years. Power curve as stated above in comparison to roots will save your drive. I am currently working on piecing one together for my 69 nova on a vortec zz4.

 

[Cdog]

From my research the fuel, ignition & ecu systems on the Merc blue engines were the draw back. Everyone remembers the black transom rich idle on the 500 Efi's. Well that situation was exacerbated when you needed even more fuel on the mid to top end. A sequential EFI system with idle tuning tied into the proper fuel pressure made them almost perfect.

The 540 I had in my Shockwave was built for a big PC. But they couldn't deliver in time for a powell trip so I figured I'd add it later. Dumb move on my part.

 

[pronstar]

From my research the fuel, ignition & ecu systems on the Merc blue engines were the draw back. Everyone remembers the black transom rich idle on the 500 Efi's. Well that situation was exacerbated when you needed even more fuel on the mid to top end. A sequential EFI system with idle tuning tied into the proper fuel pressure made them almost perfect.

The 540 I had in my Shockwave was built for a big PC. But they couldn't deliver in time for a powell trip so I figured I'd add it later. Dumb move on my part.

When I had my procharged expedition, my A/F ratios were all over the place with their crappy FMU.

Once we upgraded the fuel pump/injectors and ran a custom tune, it was rock solid.

Maybe the FMU is better these days, but IMHO it’s not an ideal solution.


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[02HoWaRd26]

From my research the fuel, ignition & ecu systems on the Merc blue engines were the draw back. Everyone remembers the black transom rich idle on the 500 Efi's. Well that situation was exacerbated when you needed even more fuel on the mid to top end. A sequential EFI system with idle tuning tied into the proper fuel pressure made them almost perfect.

The 540 I had in my Shockwave was built for a big PC. But they couldn't deliver in time for a powell trip so I figured I'd add it later. Dumb move on my part.

And that seems to be what they’ve worked on most is the fuel system. I’ve been working with them very close and well ...... my boat is headed there in a few weeks so they can use it for some final fitment and such for their new 525efi ProCharger kit.
They have been super great at answering every stupid question I’ve had and I’m truly excited to do this. My 525 has 306 hours but had the rockers, lifters, valves etc done about 40 hours ago. Will be set just on real safe 8psi but, when i eventually do the internals should be real easy to turn it up. Their new brackets, fuel system etc seem to be the answer to all the concerns that everyone I’ve found had and they really want to come out swinging.

So i will update this thread as it happens as well anyone else has any questions put them out here and i will keep asking them and passing back. I’ve heard from one of three of the guys there almost daily for the past month and they are excited to be making this push back into the marine industry.

 

[NDH2O]

I love my little M3-SC. I ran the 540 N/A for 2 years and it would take full throttle with a 24P to get it to roll over, now with a 28P and the Procharger it's not even 1/2 throttle so they do make a little boost down low.

 

[AZLineman]

I love my little M3-SC. I ran the 540 N/A for 2 years and it would take full throttle with a 24P to get it to roll over, now with a 28P and the Procharger it's not even 1/2 throttle so they do make a little boost down low.

What carb?