WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Proposed Offroad legislation -READ THIS!!

RiverDave

In it to win it
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
107,978
Reaction score
97,606
So who is going on Monday? I hope everyone shows up!! This is a lot easier to squash now then it will be later!!

what time are we supposed to be there? I will be there
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,566
Reaction score
12,282
Who is it harming having them on the street? What is the impact? They are licensed as motorcycles, so what is the difference? This comes at a time when more and more states are allowing them on the streets.. like half the country does now.
I'm sure Safety for yourself and others will be # 1 on his list. You mean you seriously didn't see this coming as the numbers of SxS on the roads increased ?
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,044
Reaction score
44,217
So who is going on Monday? I hope everyone shows up!! This is a lot easier to squash now then it will be later!!

what time are we supposed to be there? I will be there
Is it Today or Monday? I might be able to get there if it is Monday.

You should hit up Jeff and Don Arnold.
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,566
Reaction score
12,282
So who is going on Monday? I hope everyone shows up!! This is a lot easier to squash now then it will be later!!

what time are we supposed to be there? I will be there
Did you find that subject on the meeting agenda ? Or do you attend the meeting and speak based on reading it on Facebook ?
Was it an agenda at a previous meeting ?
 

Lucky Larry

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
330
Reaction score
651
For those who can’t attend the meeting, go to the Mohave County webpage, scroll to Public Works and send him an email.
162A1880-6DF0-4678-BC11-FFD85EC1193B.jpeg
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,044
Reaction score
44,217
I'm sure Safety for yourself and others will be # 1 on his list. You mean you seriously didn't see this coming as the numbers of SxS on the roads increased ?
Well when they are on the road they are subject to the laws of the road already on the books. You don’t have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle, why would you need to wear one in a vehicle with a roof and a roll cage?

Again, how are they a danger or a safety risk to anyone? It is registered as a motorcycle. I’m safer in my SXS on the street than I am in a motorcycle.
 

thetub

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
3,532
Reaction score
2,602
starting to sound like Cavasu


" I love to see other states follow the lead of our progressive Kalifornia" - RodnJen
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,566
Reaction score
12,282
Well when they are on the road they are subject to the laws of the road already on the books. You don’t have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle, why would you need to wear one in a vehicle with a roof and a roll cage?

Again, how are they a danger or a safety risk to anyone? It is registered as a motorcycle. I’m safer in my SXS on the street than I am in a motorcycle.
Well good luck selling that 😁
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,566
Reaction score
12,282
AND CALL.
Just curious, do you address this as " I read something on a forum, that somebody else posted that had read it on Facebook that you might be considering legislation concerning offroad vehicles being operated on public highways" ?
I was hoping actually finding and citing his intent based on a meeting agenda might provide a clue as too what to complain about.
 

Universal Elements

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
5,114
Reaction score
10,960
For those who can’t attend the meeting, go to the Mohave County webpage, scroll to Public Works and send him an email. View attachment 1031617
You could send him an email but it’s really useless. He already has his mind made up and it is his agenda. These are the individuals you need to send an email to starting today. They need to hear the opposition for this. The more emails they receive before Monday, the better. I’ve been through this three times since last year regarding issues where I live.



Sent him an email since it may be a statewide issue

 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,566
Reaction score
12,282
I won't argue w/ you, and I also don't 'pack-up and leave' because the 'inevitable' . . . I hold on to hope maybe a little more than you and do something about it, . . .call me dumb . . . the old saying, “Those who forget their history are condemned to repeat it" is always in the back of my mind . . . and I don't really subscribe to the 'Preacher of Doom' theory . . . but that's just me.
To respond and certainly no intention to argue the point.
What I learned from History was to "Make Hay while the sun shined". So in the 60's as Orange County became the new " Mecca" from all invaders from the East, I profited from it. Then when OC started to slow, I moved to San Diego and did likewise. There was no way to curb this mass migration, I didn't run or hide or move away, I capitalized on it, the best I could.

What I've learned from my rather lengthy personal history is, when people come, the rules and regulations increase proportionately in order to maintain control, it has always been so and will always be so. Everything evolves, everything changes, nothing stays the same and the faster the population mass increases, the faster the change occurs.

Good Luck !!!!!
 

Universal Elements

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
5,114
Reaction score
10,960
Just curious, do you address this as " I read something on a forum, that somebody else posted that had read it on Facebook that you might be considering legislation concerning offroad vehicles being operated on public highways" ?
I was hoping actually finding and citing his intent based on a meeting agenda might provide a clue as too what to complain about.
No, you could call here in a couple of minutes and ask her if it’s on the agenda

CEE81146-7CB6-42E1-B4A9-005F68080A48.jpeg
 

Patyacht

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
1,696
Reaction score
562
I guess I'm the guy who originally posted this crap on Facebook. My bad for not coming here 1st. Here is the article which was on Page 1 of the Wednesday's LHC News-Herald dated July 28, 2021.
PG1 LHC PAPER 7-28-21.jpg
PG2 LHC PAPER 7-28-21.jpg
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,044
Reaction score
44,217
Well good luck selling that 😁
I thought you belonged to the party of science.. Enough angry voters will shut it down, just like they did with the proposed gorge regulations GMAC & Co. helped put forth several years ago.
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,044
Reaction score
44,217
I guess I'm the guy who originally posted this crap on Facebook. My bad for not coming here 1st. Here is the article which was on Page 1 of the Wednesday's LHC News-Herald dated July 28, 2021. View attachment 1031625 View attachment 1031627
The "Consumer Federation of America" can get fucked. What to know how I know they are full of BS? July and August are the LEAST popular times to drive a SXS in AZ.

Anyone know some people at Polaris or Can Am? They have lobbying arms that would fight this kind of stuff..

Read between the lines there.. "I definitely support it in our parks and recreation areas" - Translation "We want to close off the open unpatrolled lands"
 

Universal Elements

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
5,114
Reaction score
10,960
I thought you belonged to the party of science.. Enough angry voters will shut it down, just like they did with the proposed gorge regulations GMAC & Co. helped put forth several years ago.
With the new administration, that may be coming back. They would love to make it a canoe/kayak access only. I know, “it will never happen”. 🤣
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,566
Reaction score
12,282
Well when they are on the road they are subject to the laws of the road already on the books. You don’t have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle, why would you need to wear one in a vehicle with a roof and a roll cage?

Again, how are they a danger or a safety risk to anyone? It is registered as a motorcycle. I’m safer in my SXS on the street than I am in a motorcycle.
Why you asking me ?
But personally, even though my SxS is street registered, I've only driven it around the island and I only registered it so I wouldn't be hassled out by our ranch driving on dirt county roads.
I stopped riding motorcycles 10 years ago because I figured it wasn't if but when I was going to lose to a car. I do not feel safe driving my SxS around Havasu, I barely feel safe in my Raptor. I know that if I'm involved in an accident with a car while in my SxS, I'm going to lose.
Motorcycles don't carry 4 people, despite having a MC plate, a SxS is not a motorcycle, it's a vehicle, a vehicle built and intended for driving off road.


I'm stating how he's going to approach it, because Safety Sells and if you view his presentations and written publications it's a subject he's well educated in selling.
Read about his Golden Shores Roundabout --- Safety, safety safety. There's been some SxS wrecks in Havasu, if there's more that spells bad news.

You honestly didn't see this coming ??????
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,566
Reaction score
12,282
I thought you belonged to the party of science.. Enough angry voters will shut it down, just like they did with the proposed gorge regulations GMAC & Co. helped put forth several years ago.
You know, keep your fucking childless labels in the P&G with the rest of your brethren.

Good, shut it down, just keep punching into the darkness, you're bound to hit something.
 

Patyacht

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
1,696
Reaction score
562
Several years ago BLM, Bureau of Land Management, put out their Travel Management Plan for Mohave county that proposed closing hundreds of trails in the county. Many off-roaders went to the County meeting and the Supervisors were convinced that the BLM Plan would hurt the county tourism and financially. The Supervisors got Paul Goser and McCain on board. The end result was the TMP was stopped! SO, if done right and everyone goes to the meeting and several people speak with prepared notes, no rock throwing, it can be stopped!!
 

Desert Whaler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
1,200
Reaction score
3,591
To respond and certainly no intention to argue the point.
What I learned from History was to "Make Hay while the sun shined". So in the 60's as Orange County became the new " Mecca" from all invaders from the East, I profited from it. Then when OC started to slow, I moved to San Diego and did likewise. There was no way to curb this mass migration, I didn't run or hide or move away, I capitalized on it, the best I could.

What I've learned from my rather lengthy personal history is, when people come, the rules and regulations increase proportionately in order to maintain control, it has always been so and will always be so. Everything evolves, everything changes, nothing stays the same and the faster the population mass increases, the faster the change occurs.

Good Luck !!!!!
I understand and commend you on your profiting. . . while I don't agree 100% with your second paragraph.

If everyone just 'rolls-over' and accepts the terms/ inevitable changes that come with growth, those changes ironically become more cumbersome, restrictive, and often non-sensical as time goes on . . . . I can point to 2 cases . . . growing up in HB in the early 70's, my Mom fought tooth and nail for YEARS to save the Bolsa Chica Wetlands . . . and while there was still some develpment, they made enough of an impact to save a large portion of it . . . had they not done that, there would be nothing but homes and shopping centers . . . . another one was the 'Banning Bridge' proposal. . . basically an extension of the 55 freeway which would have dumped it off onto 19th street in costa mesa and then dumped the traffic over the santa ana river (via the proposed bridge) and right into our backyard . . . they fought that for YEARS . . . guess what . . . 'No Bridge' . . . they even pressed to make sure it was taken off the county's master plan of arterial highways list.

So yeah . . . people CAN and DO make a difference . . .maybe not ALL the difference, but enough to maintain the quality of life they came there for in the first place . . . and certainly not to allow some 'Belt Neck' with a 'feel-good' agenda to arbitrarily propose binding legislation because he or she feels they can.
 
Last edited:

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,044
Reaction score
44,217
Why you asking me ?
But personally, even though my SxS is street registered, I've only driven it around the island and I only registered it so I wouldn't be hassled out by our ranch driving on dirt county roads.
I stopped riding motorcycles 10 years ago because I figured it wasn't if but when I was going to lose to a car. I do not feel safe driving my SxS around Havasu, I barely feel safe in my Raptor. I know that if I'm involved in an accident with a car while in my SxS, I'm going to lose.
Motorcycles don't carry 4 people, despite having a MC plate, a SxS is not a motorcycle, it's a vehicle, a vehicle built and intended for driving off road.


I'm stating how he's going to approach it, because Safety Sells and if you view his presentations and written publications it's a subject he's well educated in selling.
Read about his Golden Shores Roundabout --- Safety, safety safety. There's been some SxS wrecks in Havasu, if there's more that spells bad news.

You honestly didn't see this coming ??????
There are wrecks with everything.. The momentum nationwide is actually towards legalizing them for street use, not banning them where they are already legal.

If you want more safety, ban motorcycles. You are safer in a SXS than you are on a motorcycle. A SXS is registered as a motorcycle, why wouldn't thy have the same freedoms on the road as a motorcycle.

Just like with Covid, your safety concerns and risk level are your own, no one is forcing you to go drive your SXS on the roads.
 
Last edited:

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,044
Reaction score
44,217
Several years ago BLM, Bureau of Land Management, put out their Travel Management Plan for Mohave county that proposed closing hundreds of trails in the county. Many off-roaders went to the County meeting and the Supervisors were convinced that the BLM Plan would hurt the county tourism and financially. The Supervisors got Paul Goser and McCain on board. The end result was the TMP was stopped! SO, if done right and everyone goes to the meeting and several people speak with prepared notes, no rock throwing, it can be stopped!!
Agreed. Think how many millions the county gets every year from street registrations of OHVs alone, and those people put very few miles on the actual roads. Think of the revenue they will lose in tourism to the area in the winter. These people can stay in CA and be legislated to death there :)
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,566
Reaction score
12,282
I understand and commend you on your profiting. . . while I don't agree 100% with your second paragraph.

If everyone just 'rolls-over' and accepts the terms/ inevitable changes that come with growth, those changes ironically become more cumbersome, restrictive, and often non-sensical as time goes on . . . . I can point to 2 cases . . . growing up in HB in the early 70's, my Mom fought tooth and nail for YEARS to save the Bolsa Chica Wetlands . . . and while there was still some develpment, they made enough of an impact to save a large portion of it . . . had they not done that, there would be nothing but homes and shopping centers . . . . another one was the 'Banning Bridge' proposal. . . basically an extension of the 55 freeway which would have dumped it off onto 19th street in costa mesa and then dumped the traffic over the santa ana river and right into our backyard . . . they fought that for YEARS . . . guess what . . . 'No Bridge' . . . they even pressed to make sure it was taken off the county's master plan of arterial highways list.

So yeah . . . people CAN and DO make a difference . . .maybe not ALL the difference, but enough to maintain the quality of life they came their for in the first place . . . and certainly not to allow some 'Belt Neck' with a feel-good' agenda to arbitrarily propose binding legislation because he or she feels they can.
I agree 100%, we can't stem the tide, but we can try to intelligently re-direct it's flow, even if it's just a little here and there. 👍
 

Patyacht

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
1,696
Reaction score
562
I just posted this stuff on the "Ride Havasu" Facebook page. They are a pretty big SxS group. Hopefully they will get on board. Most of my group are out of town now.
 

Tireman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
213
Reaction score
107
someone write the email then we can copy and paste ....easy to get lots of emails out then,,,,
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,044
Reaction score
44,217
I just posted this stuff on the "Ride Havasu" Facebook page. They are a pretty big SxS group. Hopefully they will get on board. Most of my group are out of town now.
Good Call. I could see Don being helpful in leading the charge.
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,566
Reaction score
12,282
LOL did you get yore AZ non resident ID yet??
No, mostly because I haven't been to Havasu and secondly, I'm not sure what I'd do with it if I had it and thirdly, now that ya'll are fucking up my Havasu, I might be forced to go somewhere else to die.

Respect, it's a mutual thing and will keep you off my Old Man " Do this before you die" list. 😁
 

2Driver

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
13,001
Reaction score
17,683
You guys ought to be discussing a formal rebuttal strategy and why this is would be a bad ruling besides “I like to go SXS-ing” and it will hurt the industry.

This isn’t the same as rebutting a land closure.
 

boatdoc55

Retired Boat Mechanic
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
7,078
Reaction score
9,679
Come on folks, you're all distracted by the symptoms and consequences. Look at the Disease and then ask yourself if you can truly expect otherwise.

TO MANY PEOPLE, that's the disease.

The more people, the more need for control, no different than if you had one child, versus six or eight.

You can fight, you can scream, but Havasu ain't never going to be like the good ole days, and neither is Mohave County.

Not one of you who's been to Havasu and watched as the number of SxS on the roads went from a couple to a shit-load should be shocked, it's the expected consequence.
There's no cure, you can just try to keep kicking the can and delay the inevitable.
VERY true Tab! When the wife and I bought here in '13 I thought it's pretty cool the PoPo let them use SXS on the streets. Then 3 years ago or maybe a little longer I mentioned to he wife as we were out, WOW the amount of SXS's on the road is getting huge and I'll bet they're going to F their privilege up, WELL BAM here it is!!!!!! It's NOT just Cali and AZ, it's EVERYWHERE. WAY WAY too many people and too many people drunk on political power.
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,044
Reaction score
44,217
You guys ought to be discussing a formal rebuttal strategy and why this is would be a bad ruling besides “I like to go SXS-ing” and it will hurt the industry.

This isn’t the same as rebutting a land closure.
The rebuttal is very simple.. It will hurt the tourism and the tax bottom line threatening to enforce unenforceable, arbitrary regulations off road. Who decides what is "safe and prudent" off road?

Why can my 10 year old ride a quad or dirt bike and not a UTV?
 

grumpy88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
4,471
Reaction score
4,858
It never seams to be tbe industry that has the most to loose leading the charge . The sxs manufacturers, the dealers and the local buisness should be leading this charge . 25 upset people in flip flops and rdp shirts are not going to change much in my opinion .
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,044
Reaction score
44,217
It never seams to be tbe industry that has the most to loose leading the charge . The sxs manufacturers, the dealers and the local buisness should be leading this charge . 25 upset people in flip flops and rdp shirts are not going to change much in my opinion .
No this is where you get local leaders involved, reps like Gosar, etc. You need to tell them it will kill tourism, and the regulations are subjective, capricious, and unenforceable.
 

alpha 1

Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2019
Messages
24
Reaction score
24
VERY true Tab! When the wife and I bought here in '13 I thought it's pretty cool the PoPo let them use SXS on the streets. Then 3 years ago or maybe a little longer I mentioned to he wife as we were out, WOW the amount of SXS's on the road is getting huge and I'll bet they're going to F their privilege up, WELL BAM here it is!!!!!! It's NOT just Cali and AZ, it's EVERYWHERE. WAY WAY too many people and too many people drunk on political power.
This starting to happen everywhere MOAB now has a noise ordinance and they are checking from what I'm told with hand held meter you can fail even with stock muffler they also have a 15 MPH speed limit now for UTV's the off-road community needs to get together and stop this
and the closure of public lands to off-road use!
 

Desert Whaler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
1,200
Reaction score
3,591
It never seams to be tbe industry that has the most to loose leading the charge . The sxs manufacturers, the dealers and the local buisness should be leading this charge . 25 upset people in flip flops and rdp shirts are not going to change much in my opinion .
Exactly . . . when they did it on the fishing side with the Marine Protected Area closures, there were a few from the industry at the first meetings, but mostly fat older dudes all bitter wearing fish skeleton 'Kill em and Grill Em' t-shirts . . . that went over like a lead-balloon. . . . I bet they wish they had it to do over again.
 
Last edited:

spectra3279

Vaginamoney broke
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
13,251
Reaction score
11,184
11 posts in before someone blames it on CA. Looks like AZ is fucking this one up all on its own.
May not be the from komifornia but it is the same thought process and the same actions.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
 

Sportin' Wood

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Messages
155
Reaction score
87
I have not posted here in years, but I do lurk. Some may recall, I used to work for the OffRoad Business Association and was heavy into motorized recreation advocacy. Those saying they need to get in front of this, you are right. It will only get harder.
Some ideas to consider:

  • Get Keith Hook from UTV sports magazine engaged, he is in Havasu if I recall correctly, he has a network of UTV enthusiasts that can help the cause. Flood them with letters from people who visit the area and spend money.
  • Follow the money, talk about economic impact and tourism.
  • Address each issue with details, "I don't want this" is not going to resonate with bureaucrats and risk adverse elected wannabe politicians.
speed limits for off-road vehicles
How will they enforce this? What do they intend to accomplish? How will they determine speed? How much will it cost to place signage in remote areas? How will they fund the increase in enforcement costs?

NO driving on any paved roads
Look at the motorized vehicle code that allows UTVs on roads and use that as leverage. How would they manage that change? Is there a compromise?

16 as the minimum age to operate an off-road vehicle
Let the OEM's fight this battle, pull them in. This is a broad statement. It would disrupt a whole industry of children riding with family. Reach out to the Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC) and the AMA American Motorcyclist Association. They have been fighting that crap for years.


a Helmet and seatbelt requirement,
There is currently not a helmet law for motorcycles in AZ correct? Seatbelts are already required by the manufacture, why do you need a law?

and the requirement that all operators must take a safety course.

How do you plan to fund this? Who is going to create the curriculum? How will you enforce?

Hope this helps get some ideas floating around on how to make a good case against this suggestion by a bureaucrat from NewYork Maybe you have a couple decent people on the Mojave BOS that will see this guy as the clown he is?

Jeff Knoll
 

Desert Whaler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
1,200
Reaction score
3,591
I have not posted here in years, but I do lurk. Some may recall, I used to work for the OffRoad Business Association and was heavy into motorized recreation advocacy. Those saying they need to get in front of this, you are right. It will only get harder.
Some ideas to consider:

  • Get Keith Hook from UTV sports magazine engaged, he is in Havasu if I recall correctly, he has a network of UTV enthusiasts that can help the cause. Flood them with letters from people who visit the area and spend money.
  • Follow the money, talk about economic impact and tourism.
  • Address each issue with details, "I don't want this" is not going to resonate with bureaucrats and risk adverse elected wannabe politicians.
speed limits for off-road vehicles
How will they enforce this? What do they intend to accomplish? How will they determine speed? How much will it cost to place signage in remote areas? How will they fund the increase in enforcement costs?

NO driving on any paved roads
Look at the motorized vehicle code that allows UTVs on roads and use that as leverage. How would they manage that change? Is there a compromise?

16 as the minimum age to operate an off-road vehicle
Let the OEM's fight this battle, pull them in. This is a broad statement. It would disrupt a whole industry of children riding with family. Reach out to the Motorcycle Industry Council (MIC) and the AMA American Motorcyclist Association. They have been fighting that crap for years.


a Helmet and seatbelt requirement,
There is currently not a helmet law for motorcycles in AZ correct? Seatbelts are already required by the manufacture, why do you need a law?

and the requirement that all operators must take a safety course.

How do you plan to fund this? Who is going to create the curriculum? How will you enforce?

Hope this helps get some ideas floating around on how to make a good case against this suggestion by a bureaucrat from NewYork Maybe you have a couple decent people on the Mojave BOS that will see this guy as the clown he is?

Jeff Knoll
^^^^ THIS.
 

jeteater1

Jet boats suck
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
1,941
Reaction score
2,253
Looks like AZ. Is turning even more Blue. But have 6 more years on my license .
 

Patyacht

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
1,696
Reaction score
562
Ok, I called Buster Johnson's office, District 3 rep, and The Board of Supervisors meeting is at 09:30 Monday August 2, 2021 in the Board of Supervisors Auditorium, 700 W. Beale Street, Kingman, Arizona. It's item #55 and if you are going to speak they ask you be there 10 minutes early to sign the roster.
 
Top