WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Proposed Offroad legislation -READ THIS!!

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,340
Reaction score
44,561
“never” is the second largest word in the dictionary...right behind “forever”...
Metaphorically speaking.

Im not an off-roader. But do like the idea of getting a 2 seater soon.
But as much as I disagree and argue with Taboma on occasion, I can tell you from my experiences watching regulations be put in place concerning recreational vehicles and boats, you’d do well to listen to him on this.
He has dealt with this guy it sounds like.
Frankly as hard as it may be to hear, nothing in this proposal sounds unreasonable to the people that decide laws.
It sounds horrible to us, of course, but not to people who think safety is necessarily regulated.
It’s real easy to say “kids get killed driving off road vehicles” and there’s not a lot that can be said to counter a statement like that.
If I were as big a part of this crowd as most of you, I’d be forming a cohesive point by point rebuttal to each bullet point and taking all the inside advice I could get.
Standing up there and calling this guy an idiot is not going to cut it...and you all know how much I enjoy doing that!
I’m not arguing with his shortsighted doomsday outlook on outdoor recreation, I’m arguing that there are things that can be done to slow it down. Flooding a county supervisor with calls and emails works. It was done a few years ago with the gorge.

At the end of the day, they don’t have the manpower to asses prudent speeds of SXS for the entire desert. Just like the roadways, most people go whatever speeds they want and pay the fine on a ticket now and then.

In AZ these types of regulations will cost more money than they ever hope to generate. Tourism is a major source of revenue for the county. Tying UTV regulation to decreased tourism is the key.

I can tell you the “study” they referenced is already baseless as it stated that most UTV accidents happen in July.. almost no one is even on a UTV in the desert in Mohave County in July.

The fact that the manufacturers recommend helmets is meaningless in AZ. They already have helmet laws on the books. That is like saying Coors says “drink responsibly” so by extension we should outlaw people being drunk. If we turned UTV manufacturers CYA recommendations into law, no kid under 16 would operate anything off-road in Mohave County...

Nope that won’t affect tourism at all if I can’t take my family out in the desert with our toys without being cited.

All that said, I would be for imposing speed limits off road within 100 yards of houses, which is probably the impetus for this whole shit show.
 
Last edited:

was thatguy

living in a cage of fear
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
43,013
Reaction score
66,837
I’m not arguing with his doomsday outlook on outdoor recreation, I’m arguing that there are things that can be done to slow it down.

At the end of the day, they don’t have the manpower to asses prudent speeds for the entire desert. Just like the roadways, most people go whatever speeds they want and pay the fine on a ticket now and then.
That’s kind of my point...it isn’t doomsday rhetoric.
For instance Im actually shocked that the powers that be have not instated a HP limit on the CO River to be honest. The enviros could easily get it done if they really wanted to.
In Alaska when the lower Kenai got slammed with more and more boats as people learned about the salmon fishing there, and everyone with a boat became a guide, within a very short time the enviros easily got a 35 HP limit implemented using erosion data as the catalyst. It didn’t matter that some of their data was natural redirection or natural erosion, it was how they combatted the flotilla of 24’ Duckworths and Alumawelds with 500” big blocks and 6 tourists on board ripping up and down the river.

Thinking they don’t have the manpower could be a mistake. If they dont have the man power, they can and may just shut er down in some areas.

But this I can assure you as sure as the sun will explode in 200 billion years.
Taboma is right. One day there will be no off-road vehicles allowed anywhere besides a controlled park. And there will be HP limits on the River I guarantee you.
So get your shit together and take this guy serious or he will get allowances.
 

rivermobster

Club Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
42,196
Reaction score
25,254
That’s kind of my point...it isn’t doomsday rhetoric.
For instance Im actually shocked that the powers that be have not instated a HP limit on the CO River to be honest. The enviros could easily get it done if they really wanted to.
In Alaska when the lower Kenai got slammed with more and more boats as people learned about the salmon fishing there, and everyone with a boat became a guide, within a very short time the enviros easily got a 35 HP limit implemented using erosion data as the catalyst. It didn’t matter that some of their data was natural redirection or natural erosion, it was how they combatted the flotilla of 24’ Duckworths and Alumawelds with 500” big blocks and 6 tourists on board ripping up and down the river.

Thinking they don’t have the manpower could be a mistake. If they dont have the man power, they can and may just shut er down in some areas.

But this I can assure you as sure as the sun will explode in 200 billion years.
Taboma is right. One day there will be no off-road vehicles allowed anywhere besides a controlled park. And there will be HP limits on the River I guarantee you.
So get your shit together and take this guy serious or he will get allowances.
BNAG

Ashley, it may be cause of what you are thinking.

It may be cause of the recent SxS death in Havasu where people were ignoring the speed limit.

It may be cause of the crash that fucked up the London Bridge awhile back.

None of that matters. What matters is not finger pointing, what matters is hand written letters, facts and actually doing something other than posting on here about it.

For all of you that have AZ mailing addresses...

Less talk. More action.

P.S. I frequently disagree with Tabhoma's doom and gloom attitudes, but even a broke clock is right twice a day I heard someone say.
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,340
Reaction score
44,561
That’s kind of my point...it isn’t doomsday rhetoric.
For instance Im actually shocked that the powers that be have not instated a HP limit on the CO River to be honest. The enviros could easily get it done if they really wanted to.
In Alaska when the lower Kenai got slammed with more and more boats as people learned about the salmon fishing there, and everyone with a boat became a guide, within a very short time the enviros easily got a 35 HP limit implemented using erosion data as the catalyst. It didn’t matter that some of their data was natural redirection or natural erosion, it was how they combatted the flotilla of 24’ Duckworths and Alumawelds with 500” big blocks and 6 tourists on board ripping up and down the river.

Thinking they don’t have the manpower could be a mistake. If they dont have the man power, they can and may just shut er down in some areas.

But this I can assure you as sure as the sun will explode in 200 billion years.
Taboma is right. One day there will be no off-road vehicles allowed anywhere besides a controlled park. And there will be HP limits on the River I guarantee you.
So get your shit together and take this guy serious or he will get allowances.
Taboma is right just like the people that have been saying the economy will implode in 18 months for the last 6 years. Yea it’s gonna happen eventually. We are on the loosing side here it is just a matter of time but we have several things on our side.

What Mohave Co. does not have is limitless time and resources. The one thing they do have is tourism. If they hurt that it hurts everyone in the county.

Again, this all goes back to money. Literally everything we need to express to oppose this is already in this thread and was very well written. There are really very few specific regulations put forth, just a broad set of ideas.

There is no way to enforce these proposed off road regulations, nor is their any standards to do so.

They want an off road safety card - For who? Guys in jeeps? UTVS only? What about quads and motorcycles?

You are telling me a kid has to be 16 to ride a 150cc UTV? A 16 year old can’t even fit into a 150cc UTV. What about a 50cc quad or motorcycle?

What rationale is there for banning UTVs on the street? They are breaking laws? You already have laws they are breaking, have the cops cite them.

We already go confirmation that one county supervisor wants no part of this. We are off to a good start.

The tourism money is exactly why a HP limit isn’t going to happen in Havasu anytime soon. And there aren’t people living close enough to the water to complain about the noise.

I could see a noise ordinance before a speed or HP limit, both of which are hard to enforce.
 
Last edited:

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,340
Reaction score
44,561
BNAG

Ashley, it may be cause of what you are thinking.

It may be cause of the recent SxS death in Havasu where people were ignoring the speed limit.

It may be cause of the crash that fucked up the London Bridge awhile back.

None of that matters. What matters is not finger pointing, what matters is hand written letters, facts and actually doing something other than posting on here about it.

For all of you that have AZ mailing addresses...

Less talk. More action.

P.S. I frequently disagree with Tabhoma's doom and gloom attitudes, but even a broke clock is right twice a day I heard someone say.
Wasn’t that recent death on the CA side? And wasn’t the person intoxicated?

Last summer A drunk guy in a truck fucked up the bridge and we aren’t talking about banning trucks. The fact is we don’t know for sure but it is probably all of the above.

There are actually very few SXS accidents on the streets, but like anything, accidents happen.

If they ban them from the streets the county will feel it in their wallet. I am certain the county supervisors already know that but if a few thousand people reinforce that thought, it will certainly help.
 

was thatguy

living in a cage of fear
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
43,013
Reaction score
66,837
Taboma is right just like the people that have been saying the economy will implode in 18 months for the last 6 years. Yea it’s gonna happen eventually. We are on the loosing side here it is just a matter of time but we have several things on our side.

What Mohave Co. does not have is limitless time and resources. The one thing they do have is tourism. If they hurt that it hurts everyone in the county.

Again, this all goes back to money. Literally everything we need to express to oppose this is already in this thread and was very well written. There are really very few specific regulations put forth, just a broad set of ideas.

There is no way to enforce these proposed off road regulations, nor is their any standards to do so.

They want an off road safety card - For who? Guys in jeeps? UTVS only? What about quads and motorcycles?

You are telling me a kid has to be 16 to ride a 150cc UTV? A 16 year old can’t even fit into a 150cc UTV. What about a 50cc quad or motorcycle?

What rationale is there for banning UTVs on the street? They are breaking laws? You already have laws they are breaking, have the cops cite them.

We already go confirmation that one county supervisor wants no part of this. We are off to a good start.

The tourism money is exactly why a HP limit isn’t going to happen in Havasu anytime soon. And there aren’t people living close enough to the water to complain about the noise.

I could see a noise ordinance before a speed or HP limit, both of which are hard to enforce.
OK champ.
Ever hear of the spotted owl and the logging industry?
How about Red Bluff and the 27 year history of drag boat races cancelled over salmon fry? ($5 million a year removed from Red Bluff with the stroke of a pen)
What about the Bay Area and that smelt that crushed valley AG?
You think tourism wasn’t brought up when hundreds of guides showed up in Kenai to protest the attempted closure to all power boats? The 35 HP law was a compromise.
We are talking tens of millions in tourism and fishing licenses and airfare and local economies every bit as vibrant as Havasu...in fact far mores so in many ways. Global tourism.
None of that mattered when the the enviros wheeled out their charts and measurements and data. Noise won’t matter. Never has. It’ll be erosion that gets it done.

It’s a good argument I grant you, but I think you are in for a disappointment in coming years if history holds.

Ps- HP or even decibel levels are simple to enforce. One ranger at a ramp and you aren’t launching. That simple.
 

PlanB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
2,581
Reaction score
4,093
Wasn’t that recent death on the CA side? And wasn’t the person intoxicated?

Last summer A drunk guy in a truck fucked up the bridge and we aren’t talking about banning trucks. The fact is we don’t know for sure but it is probably all of the above.

There are actually very few SXS accidents on the streets, but like anything, accidents happen.

If they ban them from the streets the county will feel it in their wallet. I am certain the county supervisors already know that but if a few thousand people reinforce that thought, it will certainly help.
If they ban them from the street my Can Am will be up for sale the next day. I have no use for an off-road vehicle in Havasu I can't drive out of my garage. I will go back to my Jeep. I have a feeling I am not the only one that does not want to trailer their SXS to go use it around Havasu.
 

PlanB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
2,581
Reaction score
4,093
OK champ.
Ever hear of the spotted owl and the logging industry?
How about Red Bluff and the 27 year history of drag boat races cancelled over salmon fry? ($5 million a year removed from Red Bluff with the stroke of a pen)
What about the Bay Area and that smelt that crushed valley AG?
You think tourism wasn’t brought up when hundreds of guides showed up in Kenai to protest the attempted closure to all power boats? The 35 HP law was a compromise.
We are talking tens of millions in tourism and fishing licenses and airfare and local economies every bit as vibrant as Havasu...in fact far mores so in many ways. Global tourism.
None of that mattered when the the enviros wheeled out their charts and measurements and data. Noise won’t matter. Never has. It’ll be erosion that gets it done.

It’s a good argument I grant you, but I think you are in for a disappointment in coming years if history holds.

Ps- HP or even decibel levels are simple to enforce. One ranger at a ramp and you aren’t launching. That simple.
I hear what you are saying but Mohave county has very few sources of income and tourism is #1. Remember before the recent boom years when Havasu was begging people to come into town and spend money? If you kill the off-road scene in Havasu and other areas of Mohave county, the dollars coming in the non-boating season will slow significantly. I take any proposals like this seriously but I also wonder if Mohave County would bite on any of this crap? If they do they will feel it in the pocket book, especially Havasu.
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,340
Reaction score
44,561
If they ban them from the street my Can Am will be up for sale the next day. I have no use for an off-road vehicle in Havasu I can't drive out of my garage. I will go back to my Jeep. I have a feeling I am not the only one that does not want to trailer their SXS to go use it around Havasu.
They will lose a ton of revenue from
Registrations, and the vast majority of people don’t put that many street miles on their machines.

That is pretty much what you say as a personal anecdote - If I can’t ride on the street, my kids can’t drive their machines anymore, and you are gonna force me to wear a helmet in a fully caged car, I’ll just trailer my shit up the road to Utah and give them all my money instead then.. bye bye!
 
Last edited:

was thatguy

living in a cage of fear
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
43,013
Reaction score
66,837
I hear what you are saying but Mohave county has very few sources of income and tourism is #1. Remember before the recent boom years when Havasu was begging people to come into town and spend money? If you kill the off-road scene in Havasu and other areas of Mohave county, the dollars coming in the non-boating season will slow significantly. I take any proposals like this seriously but I also wonder if Mohave County would bite on any of this crap? If they do they will feel it in the pocket book, especially Havasu.
I hear both of you.
So given all that, what is this guys end game?
 

RiverDave

In it to win it
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
108,175
Reaction score
98,312
That’s kind of my point...it isn’t doomsday rhetoric.
For instance Im actually shocked that the powers that be have not instated a HP limit on the CO River to be honest. The enviros could easily get it done if they really wanted to.
In Alaska when the lower Kenai got slammed with more and more boats as people learned about the salmon fishing there, and everyone with a boat became a guide, within a very short time the enviros easily got a 35 HP limit implemented using erosion data as the catalyst. It didn’t matter that some of their data was natural redirection or natural erosion, it was how they combatted the flotilla of 24’ Duckworths and Alumawelds with 500” big blocks and 6 tourists on board ripping up and down the river.

Thinking they don’t have the manpower could be a mistake. If they dont have the man power, they can and may just shut er down in some areas.

But this I can assure you as sure as the sun will explode in 200 billion years.
Taboma is right. One day there will be no off-road vehicles allowed anywhere besides a controlled park. And there will be HP limits on the River I guarantee you.
So get your shit together and take this guy serious or he will get allowances.
I disagree.
 

FreeBird236

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
11,144
Reaction score
8,120
Has anyone thought of contacting Havasu's SxS club to see if they'll be going to Kingman, they are quite a large organization.
 

185EZ

Takin it EZ
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
1,632
Reaction score
5,228
If they ban them from the street my Can Am will be up for sale the next day. I have no use for an off-road vehicle in Havasu I can't drive out of my garage. I will go back to my Jeep. I have a feeling I am not the only one that does not want to trailer their SXS to go use it around Havasu.
Our rzr is in Coconino county now. Hopefully this doesn't go state wide or anywhere. I would sell my rzr too. No more off road sticker or registration.
I can't imagine having to trailer down to Standard wash just to go for a ride.
But it's also getting more limited here by just going out your garage.
Look at all the land for sale. North point blocked a fun day to Crystal beach
The trails to Topock are brutal.
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,340
Reaction score
44,561
I hear both of you.
So given all that, what is this guys end game?
The end game is exactly what he stated.. he want SXS off the road, and their speed limited off the road and credit with creating a statewide model for UTV safety. I think he is in the wrong county for that.

Honestly he is probably ill informed about SXS in general.

He wants seat belt laws for them, I’m assuming off road since they already apply on road I believe.

Every SXS has an speed limiter enabled if the seat belts aren’t buckled.

Helmets? Nanny state I guess.. right now over 18 is operators choice both on and off road. Under 18 is already mandatory helmets off road.

Prudent speed off-road? WTF does that mean? We have cars, trucks UTVs and jeeps that can do anywhere from 20 to 120MPH off-road. You are going to look at my vehicle and try to tell my 50 MPH speed wasn’t prudent when I have no one around me, with 5 point safety harnesses, a roll cage, and a helmet? Who is qualified to write that ticket?
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,340
Reaction score
44,561
Our rzr is in Coconino county now. Hopefully this doesn't go state wide or anywhere. I would sell my rzr too. No more off road sticker or registration.
I can't imagine having to trailer down to Standard wash just to go for a ride.
The news article said it would be a model for the entire state 🤣
 

rivermobster

Club Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
42,196
Reaction score
25,254
Wasn’t that recent death on the CA side? And wasn’t the person intoxicated?

Last summer A drunk guy in a truck fucked up the bridge and we aren’t talking about banning trucks. The fact is we don’t know for sure but it is probably all of the above.

There are actually very few SXS accidents on the streets, but like anything, accidents happen.

If they ban them from the streets the county will feel it in their wallet. I am certain the county supervisors already know that but if a few thousand people reinforce that thought, it will certainly help.
Like I said, none of that matters.

Hand written sincerely written letters DO matter.

I watched this happen on the Glamis war front. Copy and pasted and online pools are useless.
 

was thatguy

living in a cage of fear
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
43,013
Reaction score
66,837
The news article said it would be a model for the entire state 🤣
And didn’t I read that this guys next stop is a State seat?

Keep laughing.

Do you know the % of sxs registrations overall in Mohave county? What about the total annual registration dollar amount loss that you say will be felt? How much is that exactly? Would a $5 increase elsewhere across the board make up for it? What about a simple increase for off road stickers? Would that offset that loss?
Dont know?
Neither do I ...but I guarantee you he knows.
 
Last edited:

RiverDave

In it to win it
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
108,175
Reaction score
98,312
Anyone know what time we should be there today?
 

RiverDave

In it to win it
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
108,175
Reaction score
98,312
Ok, I called Buster Johnson's office, District 3 rep, and The Board of Supervisors meeting is at 09:30 Monday August 2, 2021 in the Board of Supervisors Auditorium, 700 W. Beale Street, Kingman, Arizona. It's item #55 and if you are going to speak they ask you be there 10 minutes early to sign the roster.
found it
 

Desert Whaler

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
1,203
Reaction score
3,597
I wouldn't be at all surprised if Steve Latoski has read this thread himself . . . keep in mind these people are relentless. Since many people of his type have no life in terms of hobbies, sports, activities, they take on and champion causes like this and it gives them fulfillment and makes them feel relevant in an otherwise meaningless existence.
 

boatdoc55

Retired Boat Mechanic
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
7,109
Reaction score
9,744
I like LOF but some of you city slickers that go to the desert or the river to let your hair down, so to speak, are fooling yourselves if you don't think there is a battle plan against you from the far left/enviro nuts that are trying to keep you penned up in your concrete jungles. They want you there 24/7 so they can control you and keep you safe. I lived VERY rural for 25 years and saw first hand what these wacko's are not trying to do but ARE doing.
The good guys are getting hemmed in and don't even realize it. Kind of like that saying about a frog and some warm water.

BE CAREFUL, be very careful!!!!!!
 

RiverDave

In it to win it
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
108,175
Reaction score
98,312

Tank

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
15,558
Reaction score
27,467
Way to go Dave. Impressed you put your money where your mouth is and made the effort to be in attendance there. Respect. 👍

I mean, when I bring the boys out to ride the kids quads and sxs I don’t want to hassle with this stupid fuckin law. 😂😂👍
 

DLC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
5,433
Reaction score
6,189
Way to go Dave!

anybody record it?
 

LargeOrangeFont

Moderation Enthusiast
Staff member
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
31,340
Reaction score
44,561
Great work Dave!! I wish I could have made it out this morning.
 
Top