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Public Health and Guns

Ascot71

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Its hard to convey tone in a text so read this in the spirit of thanking you for a well thought out articulated post...

With those niceties out of the way the premise that you base the argument on is flawed. The idea that ones ability to enjoy guns in almost limitless manner is diminished because somebody else is legitimately denied the same is asinine. Is there a single person reading that cant name someone who should not have easy access to firearms....??? Now, assuming that even the most rabid armed bear supporter has enough mental capacity and intellectual honesty to admit that there are circumstances that limitations are necessary it becomes a conversation on where those lines are drawn, by whom, and how are they enforced.

THATS the conversation the adults in the room want to have.

The sad thing is the Republicans has used "Guns" as a wedge issue in order to control the simple minded conservative voter.
Thanks Squeeze. I appreciate your points. It is all in perspective, and we are all entitled to our own thoughts and beliefs.

Maybe I missed my point. Sure wouldn't be the first time. Things get lost between the brain and the fingers when I'm typing. So I'll clear this up a little better from my stand point. I do not think my enjoyment and rights will be diminished if there is a real action that can keep guns away from criminals and mental folks. I personally, and I think most advocates, do not have any issue with background checks. But there are already background checks, but it is not working. Not really sure which gun shows in AZ do not need an ID, I've needed one for a few purchases over the past 2 years, but that is just my experience. I agree 100% that there are people who absolutely should not have access to any kind of weapon.

So would you agree that the issue does not come from the firearm manufacturers or owners, but rather the Government Agencies that claim to be in charge of monitoring who owns and/or purchases firearms?

For me, it really comes down to how one views the Government and how we view the gun control issue. The farther Right on leans, the less we trust the Government with handling anything. For me, they have had 245 years to figure out how to keep the wrong from having possession of a gun, and the Government is completely clueless on how to do it. Where as the further Left one leans, the Government is the answer to all their worries. So when something as passionate as the 2A comes up, most "Conservatives" get real defensive about a Government approach, we just do not trust them. Which leads to your statement, a necessary conversation of where the lines are drawn, by whom and how to enforce. Nether sides track records offer enough for any kind of give or take. Government, both sides, are 99% take. That's why us 2A folks fight so hard. If we give them an inch, we will lose miles. So United We Stand against limitations.

Hope this isn't as an asinine post....
 

squeezer

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What point is that Squeeze? the Supreme Court upheld the Texas voting law during the Obama administration, it is right there in your article. No one is being disenfranchised, everyone can get a state issued ID card or Driver License. A student ID is not a legal form of identification. you can't board a plane with it, you can't get alcohol or cigarettes with it. You can't use it at the bank to get money. Why should you be able to vote with it?

Oh the disenfranchisement... "These poor students can't buy alcohol and tobacco with their student IDs.. something must be done!"
A weapons permit is NOT an acceptable form of ID per the TSA web page.



So why do you think Republicon state legislators would lobby to accept one and not the other...?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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A weapons permit is NOT an acceptable form of ID per the TSA web page.



So why do you think Republicon state legislators would lobby to accept one and not the other...?
You are talking about travel.. the TSA wont even accept a "regular ID" to travel in 6 more months. I'm being disenfranchised my rights to fly.

And a Student ID is not produced by any state, county, or city entity.
 

530RL

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A weapons permit is NOT an acceptable form of ID per the TSA web page.



So why do you think Republicon state legislators would lobby to accept one and not the other...?

Do you think if Trump and the two R senators had won Georgia that the R legislature would have amended the voting law?

Whether it be gun laws or voting laws, the government is trying to limit our Constituional rights.
 

RodnJen

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RNJ, I'll take a stab at this since you asked nicely.

As a staunch supporter of the 2A, and a responsible gun owner with a passion for my hobby, todays WH announcement does not really affect me. But the comment of a "small first step" is very alarming and concerning, as you are applying that although this is small, it is a first step. For me, this is the real concern.

1st is the "Ghost" gun. I may be mistaken, but there is very little statistics on how many of these guns are used in violent crimes. My guess is very few. Technically, a firearm with the serial number filed off is considered a ghost gun. Filing the serial number is already a crime, so the person in position of this firearm is already a criminal, and there is a good reason the number has been erased, it has been stolen, and the person does not want any evidence of this, so right there it is a criminal in position of a firearm. But I realize it is mainly to target the AR platform. Without showing statistics, the ghost gun ban will have very little, if any, chances of reducing violent gun crimes. If a troubled human being decides to go on a rampage, the gun will not care if it has some numbers stamped on it or not. It is the human factor that chooses to load the gun and pull the trigger on innocent people, not the manufacturer of the firearm or ammunition.

Next is the stabilizing brace. Logically, what affect can this ban have on gun violence? Yes, it makes the firearm more maneuverable, I understand. But again, without statistics, what proof is there that a brace, or even a bump stock or any other modifications, were either used in a crime, or even created more casualties? Yes, the Vegas shooter got off more rounds, I understand, but having a ban on this specialty equipment with not change the mind of a human being with psychologic issues. Reducing the damage, maybe, but again, my guess is very little results.

Then there is the community violence intervention. I honestly don't even know how to reply to this. Just makes me laugh. Throw a sh!t ton more money at existing entities, to decide how much more money to throw at these entities? Makes perfect sense........Any evidence that these current entities have any real affect all all, sure doesn't seem like it. I know these entities exist in Chicago, how many people have they helped steer away from gun violence? Any statistics that show this even remotely works? Crazy, I just don't see how this will help.

The ATF is now going to issue a yearly report on gun trafficking. Great! So if you read the report, the last extensive report was issued in 2000. What did anybody do with this report from 2000? I completely agree that illegal trafficking has a major hand with gun violence, no doubt in my mind. But what have they done for 20 years since this last report? It says it is "believed" that trafficking channels have changed since 2000. Why and how were they allowed to change in the first place? But no, we will just do a new study, costing millions, so we can tell the public that criminals are involved with gun trafficking. Brilliant idea, I'm sure this will stop the violence.

A new director of the ATF. OK, cool enough. Time will tell if having a "Confirmed" director will have any changes over a non-confirmed director I suppose, but whether the existing director(s) were confirmed or not, they still had a job to do, which from what most can tell, have very little influence on the criminals committing the gun violence.


So RNJ, I feel your post is a bit of a challenge to 2A supporters to defend our constitutional rights to you. I apologize if I am taking this wrong, but I get the feeling you want us to defend our rights to you. So I challenge you to do the same thing. Pick something that you are passionate about, like your favorite hobby. And substitute guns and firearms for your favorite hobby in this debate. We are on a boating site, so I'll use this as an example. Our passion has too many tragedies that come along with it. How will if "affect" you if the government decides to step in on our passion to eliminate any further tragedies, starting with small steps? There are plenty of laws already in place to protect the boating community. But human errors occur in the mast majority of boating tragedies, claiming the lives of innocent people. So the first accident is alcohol related. So now zero alcohol on the water, period. How much is that going to cost the tax payer, someone has to pay the Rangers. Private launch ramp, how much is that launch fee going to go up? Let alone how long it would take to get on the water. But guess what, some Dude that just has to drink smuggles his booze in a dock bumper, gets sauced, and kills some innocent people. Now what, a weekly blood test to obtain a operators license for a day? A background check if you have ever been buzzed in your life? Where does it stop? But in the mean time, an accident occurred because a low sun in the operators eyes, so now you can only boat between 8:00am and 3:00pm. Then a PWC turns in front of a boat, so now PWC's can operate on even hours, and boats on odd hours? And how do you enforce this? Oh, we will hire more Government employees and do some more studies, all while your boating privilege's are taken away from you. Can you see where this analogy is headed?

So go ahead and insert any activity you enjoy. Coaching your kids soccer team. Well, we have all seen innocent people hurt by a disgruntled parent on the sideline. So now, criminal background to watch a kids soccer game? But someone gets thru the background check and it happens again. Now, no more spectators rooting on their kids? But then a players punches another player out of frustration, so every child needs a physic evaluation before being allowed to play? Sweet, sign us up.....

Sorry for the long rant guys. Every once in awhile I just can't help but chime in. Maybe I just took this wrong from RNJ, but I took it as a throwing down of a gauntlet that the 2A and gun ownership should be slowly eliminated. For millions of good, responsible Americans the 2A represents our God given rights. For every American, the 2A is a right to defend, a wonderful hobby for Millions, for many it is how they put food on the table, and for many it is a way of making a living. It is not the American's citizen 2A right, or the firearm and ammunition manufacturer's fault there is gun violence. It is the human factor that is added to the equation, whether criminal or psychological, that is the issue with these tragic occurrences.

Please do not encourage "small steps" to infringe upon our 2A rights. Focus on the real issue, the mental state of the operator of the firearms being used, not the manufacturer's, the suppliers or the responsible owners.

Thanks for reading.
It wasn't a rant as much as it was a well-crafted response, thank you. I don't see these laws doing much, truthfully. That was why I asked. You have a legitimate concern regarding the first step language. I'm not interested in stripping you of your hobby. I am interested in reducing gun violence. I don't know what the best path for that is but we clearly have a problem in this country with violence. Is it caused from mental illness or instability, probably in some cases. Do we start locking people up or we perceive as unstable? Can't really do that any more than we can, or even should, take everyone's guns away.

It is a growing problem with no easy solution.
 

squeezer

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I like my chances unarmed in Chicago at night, better than my chances as an unborn child in the womb of some of these savages, yet you defend it.

"If it saves one child's life"....right?


I'm not defending it... Just inserting some facts into the conversation.

One percent of abortions are what would be considered late term and of the one percent the majority of them are due to medical reasons. I am all for making abortion less common through education and contraception support. The remaining ones should be safe and legal.
 

squeezer

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Do you think if Trump and the two R senators had won Georgia that the R legislature would have amended the voting law?

Whether it be gun laws or voting laws, the government is trying to limit our Constituional rights.
Of course!!!!

We cant possible let people continue to hand out food and water to voters standing in lines...
 

Racey

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You can buy a firearm and all the ammunition you want in Arizona at any time without even an ID to show proof of your age. It is harder to buy a package of smokes than a firearm or ammunition.

You must not only show an ID, but proof of US citizenship and multiple proofs of Arizona Residency to register to vote in Arizona.

Your statement is demonstrably false.
Not at a store genius.

if you want to go down that honk honk route, you can buy a gun from the trunk of a car in Detroit without showing an ID either.

Your ability to form coherent thoughts is demonstrably damaged.
 

Skater368

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I'm not defending it... Just inserting some facts into the conversation.

One percent of abortions are what would be considered late term and of the one percent the majority of them are due to medical reasons. I am all for making abortion less common through education and contraception support. The remaining ones should be safe and legal.
And I'll bet less than 1% of all gun murders are by non-felons? Suicide not included.
 

530RL

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Not at a store genius.

if you want to go down that honk honk route, you can buy a gun from the trunk of a car in Detroit without showing an ID either.

Your ability to form coherent thoughts is demonstrably damaged.

LOL

So following your logic, since it is appropriate for firearm and ammunitions sales, that system would be an appropriate for voting.

Some places you can legally register and vote with ID, other places it is totally cool to legally register and vote with no ID, proof of citizenship or anything else? After all, it is just a few voters.......

Your honk, honk world seems to have some logical inconsistencies. 😂😂😂😂
 

LargeOrangeFont

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LOL

So following your logic, since it is appropriate for firearm and ammunitions sales, that system would be an appropriate for voting.

Some places you can legally register and vote with ID, other places it is totally cool to legally register and vote with no ID, proof of citizenship or anything else? After all, it is just a few voters.......

Your honk, honk world seems to have some logical inconsistencies. 😂😂😂😂
Wrong again. It is illegal to buy a gun out of the trunk of a car in Detroit.

Criminals do criminal things. That has nothing to do with legal voter registration.
 

Ascot71

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It wasn't a rant as much as it was a well-crafted response, thank you. I don't see these laws doing much, truthfully. That was why I asked. You have a legitimate concern regarding the first step language. I'm not interested in stripping you of your hobby. I am interested in reducing gun violence. I don't know what the best path for that is but we clearly have a problem in this country with violence. Is it caused from mental illness or instability, probably in some cases. Do we start locking people up or we perceive as unstable? Can't really do that any more than we can, or even should, take everyone's guns away.

It is a growing problem with no easy solution.
Thanks RJ, appreciate the comment and you stating you are not interested in stripping us of our right is real stand up. I too have interests in reducing senseless gun violence, or violence of any kind. I don't have a good answer either. Unfortunately, I don't believe the people we all have elected do either, which is pretty scary to think about. I do believe that Faith in a higher power would be a huge step in the right direction, and some would enjoy stripping us of that right as well. Less hatred and a little tolerance can go a long ways as well.

I am not so sure the problem with gun violence is actually growing myself, it is just so much easier to exploit these days, as SM and MSM can spin it so easily to rile up there fan base. Yeah, more people are getting shot in Chicago, no doubt about it. But these shootings are criminals and gang bangers, so which is on the rise? Criminal activity, or gun violence? Mass shootings up? Well, so is terrorism, both foreign and domestic. So it is kind of a chicken and egg scenario I guess.

Hey, this adult, civil conversation stuff is kinda cool!
 

530RL

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Wrong again. It is illegal to buy a gun out of the trunk of a car in Detroit.

Criminals do criminal things. That has nothing to do with legal voter registration.

But legal to buy a gun out of a trunk in Arizona as different states have different laws.

You and Racey's argument is that "criminals do criminal things" and don't follow laws. As a result, more restrictive firearm laws are ineffective as criminals don't follow laws.

Then, you immediately argue for stricter voting laws, in complete contradiction to your point that "criminals do criminal things" and don't follow laws.

It's pretty obvious that your goal is simply to protect Constitutional rights for yourself, yet restrict them against others.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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But legal to buy a gun out of a trunk in Arizona as different states have different laws.

You and Racey's argument is that "criminals do criminal things" and don't follow laws. As a result, more restrictive firearm laws are ineffective as criminals don't follow laws.

Then, you immediately argue for stricter voting laws, in complete contradiction to your point that "criminals do criminal things" and don't follow laws.

It's pretty obvious that your goal is simply to protect Constitutional rights for yourself, yet restrict them against others.
Who is arguing for "stricter" voting laws? Show an ID that you are a citizen and slam in your vote, just like you need to when asked by law enforcement, go to the bank, to travel, buy alcohol, etc.

Voter ID is needed because we don't enforce our immigration laws. The constitution says only citizens can vote, but you like to ignore the constitution, so I can see why you argue outside of its confines.
 

thetub

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Thanks RJ, appreciate the comment and you stating you are not interested in stripping us of our right is real stand up. I too have interests in reducing senseless gun violence, or violence of any kind. I don't have a good answer either. Unfortunately, I don't believe the people we all have elected do either, which is pretty scary to think about. I do believe that Faith in a higher power would be a huge step in the right direction, and some would enjoy stripping us of that right as well. Less hatred and a little tolerance can go a long ways as well.

I am not so sure the problem with gun violence is actually growing myself, it is just so much easier to exploit these days, as SM and MSM can spin it so easily to rile up there fan base. Yeah, more people are getting shot in Chicago, no doubt about it. But these shootings are criminals and gang bangers, so which is on the rise? Criminal activity, or gun violence? Mass shootings up? Well, so is terrorism, both foreign and domestic. So it is kind of a chicken and egg scenario I guess.

Hey, this adult, civil conversation stuff is kinda cool!
shes full of shit

RJs not interested in stripping us of our rights but supports the people who do...

dont get fooled by this civil commenting business...
 

Racey

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But legal to buy a gun out of a trunk in Arizona as different states have different laws.

You and Racey's argument is that "criminals do criminal things" and don't follow laws. As a result, more restrictive firearm laws are ineffective as criminals don't follow laws.

Then, you immediately argue for stricter voting laws, in complete contradiction to your point that "criminals do criminal things" and don't follow laws.

It's pretty obvious that your goal is simply to protect Constitutional rights for yourself, yet restrict them against others.
Hahahahahah what a ridiculous load of bullshit this is. Quoting for future readers 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Voting has legal restrictions built in from day 1 one of the country being formed. Most specifically 1 man = 1 vote. This means you have to have some effective way of making sure nobody votes twice, at the very basic foundation of logic. Through deduction this means you have to verify someone is who they say their are to cast their vote, if the system is to be valid.

Your poor attempt to try and tie that to arbitrary gun laws is absolutely embarrassing, but very entertaining for everyone else here.
 

regor

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It wasn't a rant as much as it was a well-crafted response, thank you. I don't see these laws doing much, truthfully. That was why I asked. You have a legitimate concern regarding the first step language. I'm not interested in stripping you of your hobby. I am interested in reducing gun violence. I don't know what the best path for that is but we clearly have a problem in this country with violence. Is it caused from mental illness or instability, probably in some cases. Do we start locking people up or we perceive as unstable? Can't really do that any more than we can, or even should, take everyone's guns away.

It is a growing problem with no easy solution.
It's called living in a Constitutional Republic Jen. You want the Red Coat boot on your throat and a no gun violence Utopia...................head on over to the cucked UK. You'll love it there, they like locking down their citizens and you'll get to live like a bitch.
 

AzMandella

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copterzach

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Whoa, whoa, whoa...................it's gunna shoot you now that it sees those Benjamins!!!!!
Didn’t think about that. It spends every night in my cap next to my bathroom sink.


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regor

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Didn’t think about that. It spends every night in my cap next to my bathroom sink.


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Don't blame him, you put him in a very comprising position and that half breed gangsta just gotsa to get what's his!!!
 

RodnJen

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It's called living in a Constitutional Republic Jen. You want the Red Coat boot on your throat and a no gun violence Utopia...................head on over to the cucked UK. You'll love it there, they like locking down their citizens and you'll get to live like a bitch.
No utopia just better. Remember, "be best."
 

copterzach

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Is that a hundred dollar bill ? A kimber micro ? Scared of a full size gun ?
It’s what I carry in my pocket. I have plenty of full size pistols.


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regor

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And advocates tyranny, severely less freedom/liberty, asset/income confiscation, illegality, no rule of law, immorality, fake science, miseducation, human misery, etc.
The gall of an imbecile and their corrupt masters..........................to attempt a "conversation."
 

port austin pirate

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How much of this big shit blast of gun control from the resident morons is about the border and the other moronic policies and is all JUST IGNORE THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN THE REAL WIZARD IS SPEAKING OVERHERE. Its just flat unbelieveable to me that people can still support these worthless stooges after seeing what they are doing to this country just sad TDS toasted brains
 

was thatguy

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I like my chances unarmed in Chicago at night, better than my chances as an unborn child in the womb of some of these savages, yet you defend it.

"If it saves one child's life"....right?

And well you should.
The number one cause of infanticide for black babies is being aborted.
In most major Dem cities like NYC the abortions outnumber live births annually.

They Average around 24,000 black abortions in the city alone...compared to around 22,000 live births.
In some years this holds true on a national level as well.
Blacks are correct saying whitey kills the blacks...however it isn’t cops with guns, it’s Dem sponsored butcher shops that the blacks willfully utilize.
 

was thatguy

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How come all the spree killers are already on the FBIs radar, but they aren’t ever stopped before hand?
Oh...I remember now, it’s because of all the PC bullshit engineered by the same dumbfucks that think Joe citizen needs more restrictions on him.
 

squeezer

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Thanks Squeeze. I appreciate your points. It is all in perspective, and we are all entitled to our own thoughts and beliefs.

Maybe I missed my point. Sure wouldn't be the first time. Things get lost between the brain and the fingers when I'm typing. So I'll clear this up a little better from my stand point. I do not think my enjoyment and rights will be diminished if there is a real action that can keep guns away from criminals and mental folks. I personally, and I think most advocates, do not have any issue with background checks. But there are already background checks, but it is not working. Not really sure which gun shows in AZ do not need an ID, I've needed one for a few purchases over the past 2 years, but that is just my experience. I agree 100% that there are people who absolutely should not have access to any kind of weapon.

So would you agree that the issue does not come from the firearm manufacturers or owners, but rather the Government Agencies that claim to be in charge of monitoring who owns and/or purchases firearms?

For me, it really comes down to how one views the Government and how we view the gun control issue. The farther Right on leans, the less we trust the Government with handling anything. For me, they have had 245 years to figure out how to keep the wrong from having possession of a gun, and the Government is completely clueless on how to do it. Where as the further Left one leans, the Government is the answer to all their worries. So when something as passionate as the 2A comes up, most "Conservatives" get real defensive about a Government approach, we just do not trust them. Which leads to your statement, a necessary conversation of where the lines are drawn, by whom and how to enforce. Nether sides track records offer enough for any kind of give or take. Government, both sides, are 99% take. That's why us 2A folks fight so hard. If we give them an inch, we will lose miles. So United We Stand against limitations.

Hope this isn't as an asinine post....

The important takeaway is that when people actually ignore the hype and have a conversation about this topic there is way more common ground than not. There may be a group who thinks all guns should be confiscated, I have never met a single one of them. The vast vast majority of people think we need to do something (anything) better than what we are doing now. Thoughts and prayers just dont cut it.
 

was thatguy

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The important takeaway is that when people actually ignore the hype and have a conversation about this topic there is way more common ground than not. There may be a group who thinks all guns should be confiscated, I have never met a single one of them. The vast vast majority of people think we need to do something (anything) better than what we are doing now. Thoughts and prayers just dont cut it.
7CD05FD8-17D7-46A7-86D9-6261BDAF6819.jpeg
 

Skater368

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The important takeaway is that when people actually ignore the hype and have a conversation about this topic there is way more common ground than not. There may be a group who thinks all guns should be confiscated, I have never met a single one of them. The vast vast majority of people think we need to do something (anything) better than what we are doing now. Thoughts and prayers just dont cut it.
Perhaps we should arrest and jail those who lie on FBI background check applications?

good place to start.

I’ve never once lied on my FBI forms.
Yet you scrimmage with us law abiding and ignore the one actually breaking the laws.
 

squeezer

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Perhaps we should arrest and jail those who lie on FBI background check applications?

good place to start.

I’ve never once lied on my FBI forms.
Yet you scrimmage with us law abiding and ignore the one actually breaking the laws.

Scrimmage...??? Its more of a drive by shit bombing but OK.


One thing though, I thought we had established in the Stone/flynn/Cohen/??? Cases that lying to the FBI was not a big deal....
 

n2otoofast4u

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The important takeaway is that when people actually ignore the hype and have a conversation about this topic there is way more common ground than not. There may be a group who thinks all guns should be confiscated, I have never met a single one of them. The vast vast majority of people think we need to do something (anything) better than what we are doing now. Thoughts and prayers just dont cut it.
Apply this logic to the relentless drug and homeless problem IN YOUR FUCKING CITY first. Then worry about the guns.....

Jesus fuck squeeze, I try to see your side, but the stupidity is beyond my comprehension!
 

LargeOrangeFont

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It's called living in a Constitutional Republic Jen. You want the Red Coat boot on your throat and a no gun violence Utopia...................head on over to the cucked UK. You'll love it there, they like locking down their citizens and you'll get to live like a bitch.
You forgot you'll just be stabbed to death there with fully automatic knives.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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The important takeaway is that when people actually ignore the hype and have a conversation about this topic there is way more common ground than not. There may be a group who thinks all guns should be confiscated, I have never met a single one of them. The vast vast majority of people think we need to do something (anything) better than what we are doing now. Thoughts and prayers just dont cut it.
Put criminals in jail, it is very simple.
 

thebiz

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If stricter gun laws do not prevent gun crimes but actually result in restricting the rights of lawful gun owners; why do stricter voting laws prevent voting crimes yet do not end up restricting the rights of lawful voters?
In all seriousness, can you honestly name 1 person that has had their voting rights “restricted“ WHO ACTUALLY HAS THE RIGHT TO VOTE? I can sure name firearms I can’t legally purchase.
 

Skater368

Upon My Request This is all Folks Skater368/nganga
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Scrimmage...??? Its more of a drive by shit bombing but OK.


One thing though, I thought we had established in the Stone/flynn/Cohen/??? Cases that lying to the FBI was not a big deal....
obfuscate much?

I’ve become bored attempting an adult conversation with a petulant liberal who hates Trump more than he loves America.

You used to be able to have a reasonable conversation. You resort to high school debate tactics because you’ve brought a knife to a gunfight brother.

One reason I’ve been back in here some was because I’ve missed grown up conversations.
 

regor

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The important takeaway is that when people actually ignore the hype and have a conversation about this topic there is way more common ground than not. There may be a group who thinks all guns should be confiscated, I have never met a single one of them. The vast vast majority of people think we need to do something (anything) better than what we are doing now. Thoughts and prayers just dont cut it.
Says the clown, thanked by two others clowns, who all live in shitholes surrounded by junkies who they enable..........by choice. The same scumbags that they allow to shit on their streets AND you want to have a “conversation” about gun control with people who are protecting themselves from the monsters you created?!!!!

Like I said, you can’t make this shit up!!! 🤪
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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Apply this logic to the relentless drug and homeless problem IN YOUR FUCKING CITY first. Then worry about the guns.....

Jesus fuck squeeze, I try to see your side, but the stupidity is beyond my comprehension!
Why do you have to be such a dick?!?!

Do you not know.. common sence isnt so common?
 

squeezer

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obfuscate much?

I’ve become bored attempting an adult conversation with a petulant liberal who hates Trump more than he loves America.

You used to be able to have a reasonable conversation. You resort to high school debate tactics because you’ve brought a knife to a gunfight brother.

One reason I’ve been back in here some was because I’ve missed grown up conversations.

This is NOT the place for adult conversations.

My tone here has changed because the attitude of everybody has changed... I hold you above the Q-Anon fueled fantasy that some of the other prolific posters are swinging from so lets have an adult conversation.

Guns ?!?!?!?

I am 99% certain that my views on the privileges/responsibilities/limitations of gun ownership are already in place in your home. Guns are a part of American life. Nobody is going to change it. There should be at the very minimum a willingness to take steps to reduce the violence that goes along with that. I strait out reject the "Thats the price of freedom argument..." Why is is too much to expect reasonable people to sit around a table and talk this through? (Why can we send people to Congress who claim Sandy Hook didn't happen...????) The problem is the loudest voices are at the extremes of the conversation. I dont want the extremist making the policy. Do you?

Abortion.

I was adopted, my son was adopted... Its would be disingenuous for me to even hint that abortion is something I support... I don't. That however does not change the fact that abortion rates go down when a Democrat is in the White House. Why do you think that is? Spoiler alert, its because Liberals are not stupid enough to believe abstinence only policies work. They also don't mind supporting family planning efforts at all levels. Yes at the extreme end of the spectrum those levels include abortion... There is no legislation that is ever going to make them go away, it will only make them unsafe. Late term abortions are tragic and are most often the result of tragic circumstances. The number of people who insist on a late term abortion of a healthy baby are so small as to be insignificant... It is also illegal in close to half the states. (I would have no problem making it illegal in all of them.)

Early Bronco's

Take your best shot...
 
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boatdoc55

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And advocates tyranny, severely less freedom/liberty, asset/income confiscation, illegality, no rule of law, immorality, fake science, miseducation, human misery, etc.
And on top of ALL that, wants to displace Grandma and Grandpa so he can get more taxes. This is so he doesn't have to pay his boat ownership taxes in Calif.
 

SBMech

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This is NOT the place for adult conversations.

My tone here has changed because the attitude of everybody has changed... I hold you above the Q-Anon fueled fantasy that some of the other prolific posters are swinging from so lets have an adult conversation.

Guns ?!?!?!?

I am 99% certain that my views on the privileges/responsibilities/limitations of gun ownership are already in place in your home. Guns are a part of American life. Nobody is going to change it. There should be at the very minimum a willingness to take steps to reduce the violence that goes along with that. I strait out reject the "Thats the price of freedom argument..." Why is is too much to expect reasonable people to sit around a table and talk this through? (Why can we send people to Congress who claim Sandy Hook didn't happen...????) The problem is the loudest voices are at the extremes of the conversation. I dont want the extremist making the policy. Do you?

Abortion.

I was adopted, my son was adopted... Its would be disingenuous for me to even hint that abortion is something I support... I don't. That however does not change the fact that abortion rates go down when a Democrat is in the White House. Why do you think that is? Spoiler alert, its because Liberals are not stupid enough to believe abstinence only policies work. They also don't mind supporting family planning efforts at all levels. Yes at the extreme end of the spectrum those levels include abortion... There is no legislation that is ever going to make them go away, it will only make them unsafe. Late term abortions are tragic and are most often the result of tragic circumstances. The number of people who insist on a late term abortion of a healthy baby are so small as to be insignificant... It is also illegal in close to half the states. (I would have no problem making it illegal in all of them.)

Early Bronco's

Take your best shot...
You are so bought into the narrative that no one can pry you out, even with "common sense".....

You always deflect, but you know the truth is that HUMANS kill HUMANS. It does not matter the weapon.

You and your ilk seem to believe that the problem lies with the ability to arm yourself, if you can come up with the means to do so, weapons and ammo is not inexpensive anymore. You continue to rally around EXTREMELY isolated events (when compared to armed populations...ohh shit, that's right, there is NOTHING like the USA) where in a free armed society we are literally untouched as far as murder per populace compared to COMPLETELY DISARMED populations.

The tiny amount of lives lost is part of living in a FREE society, who is ARMED to not only protect YOU, but everyone else.

We are there to protect you from EVERYTHING. Insurgents and attackers from foreign and domestic that the states, cities, and counties ignore, or refuse to deal with.

Jesus fucking christ man, how can you be so blinded?

You will NEVER be safe from attackers to freedom, stop trying to make your allies your enemies.

Someone trying to hurt you or your family can use 100 different ways to kill you, you being armed is the ultimate answer.
 
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