RDP Commercial plumbers/ Fire inspectors....

[Uncle Dave]

What in the wide wide world of sports am I looking at?

 

[Flying_Lavey]

That would be the fire riser. When one of the heads opens and the main drops PSI, the pump runs to maintain pressure.

Maybe @Bobby V can explain further.

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[DLC]

Blue line is your main
Red is a pump to boost pressure for an hazard area possible storage or a room inside the build
Green dot not sure looks like a manifold of some sort

You also have flow control valves and flow sensors

Looks like an 8 inch line coming into the building and then it splits into 2 - 4 inch lines or it Could be a 6 inch split into 2- 3 Inch lines

@Bobby V

 

[yz450mm]

The Riser on the right side looks to be a standard wet pipe system.

The riser on the left side looks to be a dry pipe system, which is used in areas where the sprinkler lines are not within a climate-controlled area to prevent them from freezing. The system is charged with air from the compressor, and when the system senses a drop in pressure from an activated head, the main valve activates and charges the whole system.

Dry pipe systems can either have heads that are individually activated at a set temperature, or they can be a deluge system where all the heads are open and activate at the same time.

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[Ziggy]

That would be the fire riser. When one of the heads opens and the main drops PSI, the pump runs to maintain pressure.

Maybe @Bobby V can explain further.

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His company gas card has a cheat sheet on the back

 

[ChumpChange]

Looks like a lot of money.

 

[azsunfun]

over engineered! not understanding what looks to be pressure differetial operated pump?

 

[Bobby V]

What in the wide wide world of sports am I looking at?

View attachment 1023895

The riser on the right is for a wet system. The red plate is the calc plate that shows what the fire sprinkler system is designed for. Looks like a 4’ riser. Probably for light hazard occupancy like a office. The riser on the left with the blue air compressor is for a dry system like a freezer since they used a Viking alarm valve. The gauge above the Viking valve should should show the air pressure. The gauge below the alarm valve should be the water pressure And it’s at zero. If you look at the yellow looking arrows on the control valves for the wet standpipe valve is open and the dry systems is closed. What is the issue? PM me and I can walk to thru the problem.

 

[Bobby V]

His company gas card has a cheat sheet on the back

Not sure I can put 40 years in the fire sprinkler industry on the back of my company gas card. I do have a cheat sheet for the PIN number for Chevron..lol

 

[Bobby V]

The Riser on the right side looks to be a standard wet pipe system.

The riser on the left side looks to be a dry pipe system, which is used in areas where the sprinkler lines are not within a climate-controlled area to prevent them from freezing. The system is charged with air from the compressor, and when the system senses a drop in pressure from an activated head, the main valve activates and charges the whole system.

Dry pipe systems can either have heads that are individually activated at a set temperature, or they can be a deluge system where all the heads are open and activate at the same time.

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Close enough. You must be in the trade or in commercial construction.

 

[Bobby V]

Blue line is your main
Red is a pump to boost pressure for an hazard area possible storage or a room inside the build
Green dot not sure looks like a manifold of some sort

You also have flow control valves and flow sensors

Looks like an 8 inch line coming into the building and then it splits into 2 - 4 inch lines or it Could be a 6 inch split into 2- 3 Inch lines

@Bobby V

View attachment 1023898

Pretty close. But see post #8

 

[DLC]

I didnt think of freezer conditions! DOH

i was thinking high flammable….

i took a class like 22 years ago! And now I have no class! LoL

 

[Uncle Dave]

The riser on the right is for a wet system. The red plate is the calc plate that shows what the fire sprinkler system is designed for. Looks like a 4’ riser. Probably for light hazard occupancy like a office. The riser on the left with the blue air compressor is for a dry system like a freezer since they used a Viking alarm valve. The gauge above the Viking valve should should show the air pressure. The gauge below the alarm valve should be the water pressure And it’s at zero. If you look at the yellow looking arrows on the control valves for the wet standpipe valve is open and the dry systems is closed. What is the issue? PM me and I can walk to thru the problem.

I believe the dry system hypothesis is correct. The dry side looks like it feeds like 4 outdoor sprinkler.

Our local water company Nevada irrigation district (NID) has horribly fluctuating water pressure that hammer our pipes this system activates and the fire dept shows up.

The local guys that put it in are getting amnesia and dont want to show up and deal with it anymore.

Last week another pressure drop and spike set it off and started a leak which we got fixed, there has got to be a better way.

 

[Bobby V]

I believe the dry system hypothesis is correct. The dry side looks like it feeds like 4 outdoor sprinkler.

Our local water company Nevada irrigation district (NID) has horribly fluctuating water pressure that hammer our pipes this system activates and the fire dept shows up.

The local guys that put it in are getting amnesia and dont want to show up and deal with it anymore.

Last week another pressure drop and spike set it off and started a leak which we got fixed, there has got to be a better way.

Depends on what device is sending the alarm. Tamper switches are for the control valves which shouldn’t trigger the fire department, If you are getting a alarm from the wet system flow switch you will need to check the timing. 90 seconds delay is usually what we set the settings at.

 

[yz450mm]

I believe the dry system hypothesis is correct. The dry side looks like it feeds like 4 outdoor sprinkler.

Our local water company Nevada irrigation district (NID) has horribly fluctuating water pressure that hammer our pipes this system activates and the fire dept shows up.

The local guys that put it in are getting amnesia and dont want to show up and deal with it anymore.

Last week another pressure drop and spike set it off and started a leak which we got fixed, there has got to be a better way.

This will help with the pressure spike portion of your problem.

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[Bobby V]

This will help with the pressure spike portion of your problem. View attachment 1023981

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A PRV is a costly fix and could effect the calculations of the sprinkler system. I would start with adjusting the flow switch and try purging the air out of the system thru the IT line.

 

[yz450mm]

A PRV is a costly fix and could effect the calculations of the sprinkler system. I would start with adjusting the flow switch and try purging the air out of the system thru the IT line.

Agreed, but he also stated that the pressure spikes and fluctuations have caused leaks, so the prv could at least take care of that issue. I would bet that he has MJ's in at least some areas, which would definitely be more affected by the pressure fluctuations than threaded fittings.

If I were him I would start getting on the Water District to at least share some of the cost of installing a prv, since it's their pressure fluctuations that are causing damage and false alarms to his system.



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[Angler]

Pre-action system, most likely protecting a computer room.
For refrigeration and freezers, they would use a wet system with "dry" fire sprinkler heads.

 

[Angler]

I believe the dry system hypothesis is correct. The dry side looks like it feeds like 4 outdoor sprinkler.

Our local water company Nevada irrigation district (NID) has horribly fluctuating water pressure that hammer our pipes this system activates and the fire dept shows up.

The local guys that put it in are getting amnesia and dont want to show up and deal with it anymore.

Last week another pressure drop and spike set it off and started a leak which we got fixed, there has got to be a better way.

adjust or replace the flow switch, very simple to do.

 

[Bobby V]

Pre-action system, most likely protecting a computer room.
For refrigeration and freezers, they would use a wet system with "dry" fire sprinkler heads.

I thought the same until I read the sign on the main drain that says “dry system”. Yes most freezers use “dry pendent” sprinklers. But for high pile storage applications a dry system in the racks is required. In So Cal we are used to wet systems. Not so much in the cold weather states.

 

[Angler]

So someone writes dry system on the sign and you came up with high pile storage?

What state is this in?

 

[Bobby V]

Agreed, but he also stated that the pressure spikes and fluctuations have caused leaks, so the prv could at least take care of that issue. I would bet that he has MJ's in at least some areas, which would definitely be more affected by the pressure fluctuations than threaded fittings.

If I were him I would start getting on the Water District to at least share some of the cost of installing a prv, since it's their pressure fluctuations that are causing damage and false alarms to his system.



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MJ fittings vs threaded fittings don’t effect the OH fire sprinklers calcs. Schedule 10 vs 40 does a little.

 

[Bobby V]

So someone writes dry system on the sign and you came up with high pile storage?

What state is this in?

No the calc plate should determine the density of the system.

 

[Angler]

No the calc plate should determine the density of the system.

Yes it does, but I can't read the calcs on the plate, can you?

 

[yz450mm]

MJ fittings vs threaded fittings don’t effect the OH fire sprinklers calcs. Schedule 10 vs 40 does a little.

I'm more focused on the root cause of the problem, which is the repeated large pressure fluctuations in the system. That's what's causing the leaks, and could easily cause a blowout in the middle of the night that could cost a s*** ton of money if nobody was there to shut it down quickly.

One of our tenants had a MJ tee partially fail 10 minutes before closing, but the water flow was never enough to activate the flow switch. The alarm company didn't call us regarding the trouble until the piv was shut down by the fire department that got there before we did. If it had happened after closing, it would have flooded out 20,000 square feet of tenant space overnight.

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[yz450mm]

Pre-action system, most likely protecting a computer room.
For refrigeration and freezers, they would use a wet system with "dry" fire sprinkler heads.

The OP stated above that the dry side feeds 4 outdoor sprinkler heads.

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[Bobby V]

Yes it does, but I can't read the calcs on the plate, can you?

No im just going by the picture that is posted. I don’t see a pre action solenoid valve which usually indicates a single or double interlock valve that would lean me more towards a pre action system. But the picture shows a Viking Dry Valve. What are you seeing. ?

 

[Bobby V]

The OP stated above that the dry side feeds 4 outdoor sprinkler heads.

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That dry valve doesn’t supply only 4 heads.

 

[Angler]

It definitely does not. $30k to cover an overhang with 4 heads? No.

 

[Bobby V]

I'm more focused on the root cause of the problem, which is the repeated large pressure fluctuations in the system. That's what's causing the leaks, and could easily cause a blowout in the middle of the night that could cost a s*** ton of money if nobody was there to shut it down quickly.

One of our tenants had a MJ tee partially fail 10 minutes before closing, but the water flow was never enough to activate the flow switch. The alarm company didn't call us regarding the trouble until the piv was shut down by the fire department that got there before we did. If it had happened after closing, it would have flooded out 20,000 square feet of tenant space overnight.

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Got it. Your comparing UG to OH. Your correct a UG leak will usually not send a alarm to the alarm company. We have repaired 100’s of UG blow outs that have ran for days.

 

[yz450mm]

Got it. Your comparing UG to OH. Your correct a UG leak will usually not send a alarm to the alarm company. We have repaired 100’s of UG blow outs that have ran for days. [emoji15]

The leak I was referring to was at a tee in an overhead line above the T-bar. It shot out in a straight line, only affecting two rows of ceiling tiles. It ran for at least 15 minutes before it was shut down, but we never got a flow switch activation. The PIV would not shut down all the way, so I ended up having to open the main drain and just let it weep until we got the tee replaced (OS&Y in vault and didn't want to mess with). Once the piv was shut, a tenant 3 doors down had a leak at another MJ, but once it was pressurized it was fine.

As for the dry side only supplying 4 heads, I was just going by what the OP said. Maybe they were planning for future expansion?

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[Bobby V]

The leak I was referring to was at a tee in an overhead line above the T-bar. It shot out in a straight line, only affecting two rows of ceiling tiles. It ran for at least 15 minutes before it was shut down, but we never got a flow switch activation. The PIV would not shut down all the way, so I ended up having to open the main drain and just let it weep until we got the tee replaced (OS&Y in vault and didn't want to mess with). Once the piv was shut, a tenant 3 doors down had a leak at another MJ, but once it was pressurized it was fine.

As for the dry side only supplying 4 heads, I was just going by what the OP said. Maybe they were planning for future expansion?

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Yikes. We deal with this kinda of stuff way too often. BTW.. in the sprinkler trade a MJ fitting is called a mechanical joint fitting which is used for underground installation. Not for overhead. That’s why I didn’t understand your previous post about the calcs. Edit… I think your referring to a grooved fitting.

 

[yz450mm]

Yikes. We deal with this kinda of stuff way too often. [emoji849] BTW.. in the sprinkler trade a MJ fitting is called a mechanical joint fitting which is used for underground installation. Not for overhead. That’s why I didn’t understand your previous post about the calcs. [emoji106] Edit… I think your referring to a grooved fitting.

I've worked in a s*** ton of commercial buildings, and only seen MJ's used in an overhead sprinkler application this one time. I told the building owner that I had no idea why it was designed and installed that way, but this probably isn't the last time that we will have an issue. These buildings are approaching 35 years old, so all those rubber gaskets are going to age out at some point.

The leak was at a mechanical Tee, but the system also has grooved fittings.

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[Luvnlife]

Sorry I only come in 12” above finish floor