Replacing water main pipe with ?

[DaBank]

I am in So Cal and at one of my rentals (car lot) the 30 year old water main galvanized pipe keeps breaking it is about 3 feet underground and is about 100ft from main to building. I have a saw cutter coming out tomorrow to cut the asphalt 24in wide and on Thursday the tractor guy will be digging........so what should I used 1inch pvc? Frank

 

[Mandelon]

If code in your area allows it you can go PVC, otherwise its a pricey copper pipe.

 

[River Dirt 2]

I'm not a plumber but if code allows use schedule 80 PVC, and I would oversize some over the meter size. I used 2" at my house, cost difference is not all that great and it gives you some volume and CYA for fittings, bend, etc.

You could use copper but in So Cal they would probably steal it before the you could back fill it or the concrete dried...

 

[Yldboyz]

In the long run, the copper pipe will give you less problems.

 

[2Driver]

I replaced mine with 2" sched 80 pvc, all 1/4 mile of it. Dress it with 10-12" of sand above and below it and be diligent with the gluing. Theres a special glue for potable water.

 

[DaBank]

I replaced mine with 2" sched 80 pvc, all 1/4 mile of it. Dress it with 10-12" of sand above and below it and be diligent with the gluing. Theres a special glue for potable water.

Do you need to use sand? What type of sand?How deep did you set the pipe in the ground?

 

[DaBank]

I'm not a plumber but if code allows use schedule 80 PVC, and I would oversize some over the meter size. I used 2" at my house, cost difference is not all that great and it gives you some volume and CYA for fittings, bend, etc.

You could use copper but in So Cal they would probably steal it before the you could back fill it or the concrete dried...

So schedule 80 sounds like what I need to use if going PVC. I think the meter is 3/4 inch? and the pipe now is 1 inch? so you think going up to 2 inch should be fine? Also what is CYA? Frank

 

[Classic Daycruiser]

Do you need to use sand? What type of sand?How deep did you set the pipe in the ground?

I used sand at my house...it takes the stress off the joints. HD or a gravel yard can deliver it.

I also would not go much bigger than 1". Cost increases, and for what?

 

[2Driver]

I dont know enough to give advice on pipe size but we just followed the old pipe it was about 24-30" down. Check codes.

Yes use sand. No special type. What happens to copper or pvc is a rock will settle against it and eventually break it or pin hole it. Sand gives it a safe bed All my old breaks were due to not enough sand buffer and a rock over time rubbed or pushed into the pipe creating a pin hole. We are 12 years into the sched 80 and no problems

LOL at first I thought having a long driveway was cool.

 

[DaBank]

I dont know enough to give advice on pipe size but we just followed the old pipe it was about 24-30" down. Check codes.

Yes use sand. No special type. What happens to copper or pvc is a rock will settle against it and eventually break it or pin hole it. Sand gives it a safe bed All my old breaks were due to not enough sand buffer and a rock over time rubbed or pushed into the pipe creating a pin hole. We are 12 years into the sched 80 and no problems

LOL at first I thought having a long driveway was cool.
View attachment 292440

Wow you had a big job! Did you use any special fittings on the PVC pipe? How did you connect the PVC to the metal meter? Frank

 

[Classic Daycruiser]

Wow you had a big job! Did you use any special fittings on the PVC pipe? How did you connect the PVC to the metal meter? Frank

I ran copper off the meter approx. 10 feet, then used a PVC adapter to connect to the PVC. Be sure to use the right sealent for connecting PVC to copper, or it will corrode and start leaking, in five years at the connection.

 

[Cheaper To Keep Him]

If at all Possible Run 1" Pex Sold In A Roll Usually At About 1.30 a Ft Here In Havasu I Believe It's A Type Of Polyethylene Plastic Seamless And Has Higher Pressure Ratings A Few Of The Plumbers Here have Used It In Ground And In framing Applications.

 

[Luvnlife]

Like everyone said, sch 80 with sand and you should be fine. They have slip by male pipe thread or female pipe thread to attach to meter or customer service valve at back of meter. Whatever they left you there are adapters for it.:thumbsup Copper is best but pricey and you really don't have to size bigger than the meter.

 

[Ziggy]

My new house in Havasu is all PEX .

 

[Mandelon]

This work would require a permit.

 

[shockwave714]

Pex is the way to go

 

[Classic Daycruiser]

This work would require a permit.

Commercial property?

 

[Bobby V]

So schedule 80 sounds like what I need to use if going PVC. I think the meter is 3/4 inch? and the pipe now is 1 inch? so you think going up to 2 inch should be fine? Also what is CYA? Frank

CYA is Cover Your Ass.

 

[welldigger00]

HDPE is the only way. No seams that can fail, it won't crush, high pressure, and it will last a thousand years. I don't know about the thousand years part, but it is by far superior. The only challenge is connection. You can use compression fittings, or fused ends, which are the best way to go in my opinion.


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[025]

CYA is Cover Your Ass.

Definitely Hdpe (poly). Is the best for the long term. Also, it is probably too late but there are trenchless methods for replacement. String cable through the existing and pull it out with a backhoe as it pulls the new poly (or copper) through.

 

[DaBank]

HDPE is the only way. No seams that can fail, it won't crush, high pressure, and it will last a thousand years. I don't know about the thousand years part, but it is by far superior. The only challenge is connection. You can use compression fittings, or fused ends, which are the best way to go in my opinion.


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Where can you buy HDPE at? How do fused ends work? Frank

 

[Howardflat]

I would use poly line over PVC . For a 100 ft line that's a lot of joints and that is usually where PVC leaks. Poly you can buy a 100 ft roll and have no joints. We use brass slip couplings for 1" poly. Its kind of like a Chinese finger trap with an oring. If its a 1" meter you will need a "pig tail" to connect to the meter. Definitely put sand all around the pipe. Here in boulder city nv PVC is not code. Poly or copper.

 

[Mandelon]

Commercial property?

Yes. The city will want to inspect it. Ad charge you of course. Tape a wire to the top of the pipe so it can be located in the future. 24" deep most likely, sand backfill, new shutoff valve......there will be code requirements to meet.

Better to do it right.

 

[welldigger00]

You can find it at a place called P&F distributors in San Bernardino. They have all of the fuse able ends, of any configuration that you can imagine. They also have the machine that's fuses them for rent. The pipe is usually sold in 500' rolls, but sometimes they'll have half rolls.


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[hulihan]

Pull a permit unless you are in an isolated area, figure out the high and low and you get that from the water department, that will tell you the size the pipe has to be, use copper is it easier, but if the high requires you to have a pressure regulator, you do not want to have it 3/4 of the way done and have a inspector pull up, and use type L or K copper, because your meter is 3/4 and the leaking old pipe is 1 inch does not mean the same can go in, depends on what all is in the warehouse, if you want to do it right. My 2 cents, your need access to someone who knows hot to do water calculations, the permit is probably less than 100.00 , you can tell; me and I will tell you the pipe size, how many toilets, sinks urinals, kitchen sink, hose bibs, and the furthest water connection from the meter, all those have a number and a chart to determine the size of the new main, it sounds complicated, but it is not and do not use Pex or PVC, use copper.
Craig

Better call dig alert before you start doing that digging, they can take out a high pressure gas main you do not even know is there and you will have a bigger problem than you thought, and they are free Call 811 and get them there first.

 

[U4ia]

Yes. The city will want to inspect it. Ad charge you of course. Tape a wire to the top of the pipe so it can be located in the future. 24" deep most likely, sand backfill, new shutoff valve......there will be code requirements to meet.

Better to do it right.

Great tip about the wire for location years later. What sort of wire, solid or multistrand? Cheap zip cord or speaker wire?

 

[Bobby V]

Great tip about the wire for location years later. What sort of wire, solid or multistrand? Cheap zip cord or speaker wire?

They have a wire called tracer wire we use in the cities that require it on plastic fire mains.

http://naturalgasplumbing.com/Tracer-Wire-100-FT-Spool-Solid-Copper-12-AWG-030-PE-Yellow-Jacket.html

 

[530RL]

I would use copper if I was keeping the place. I have reached the stage in my life where this is the last time I am replacing any big items.

If you go with PVC and a copper lead off the meter, metal always covers plastic. In other words, when you convert from the copper lead to the PVC, make the copper female and the PVC male. I can't count how many times I have seen the opposite and laughed.

 

[Mandelon]

I would use copper if I was keeping the place. I have reached the stage in my life where this is the last time I am replacing any big items.

If you go with PVC and a copper lead off the meter, metal always covers plastic. In other words, when you convert from the copper lead to the PVC, make the copper female and the PVC male. I can't count how many times I have seen the opposite and laughed.

Yep, you screw a male threaded pipe into a female plastic part and it is just a matter of time till it splits...always the other way around! I learned that one myself as a young guy repairing sprinklers.

Wire type? I don't know that it matters...speaker wire would be fine. The rubber wrap would be good versus just bailing wire that would rust away in a few years. I don't know all the codes, but I know enough that you should consult a pro on this to make sure you don't have to redo it!

 

[Luvnlife]

Wire is 14 guage solid core. Color blue

 

[Yldboyz]

Pull a permit unless you are in an isolated area, figure out the high and low and you get that from the water department, that will tell you the size the pipe has to be, use copper is it easier, but if the high requires you to have a pressure regulator, you do not want to have it 3/4 of the way done and have a inspector pull up, and use type L or K copper, because your meter is 3/4 and the leaking old pipe is 1 inch does not mean the same can go in, depends on what all is in the warehouse, if you want to do it right. My 2 cents, your need access to someone who knows hot to do water calculations, the permit is probably less than 100.00 , you can tell; me and I will tell you the pipe size, how many toilets, sinks urinals, kitchen sink, hose bibs, and the furthest water connection from the meter, all those have a number and a chart to determine the size of the new main, it sounds complicated, but it is not and do not use Pex or PVC, use copper.
Craig

Better call dig alert before you start doing that digging, they can take out a high pressure gas main you do not even know is there and you will have a bigger problem than you thought, and they are free Call 811 and get them there first.

I totally agree Craig.
Before you decide you're going to up size your main line, get a fixture count and calculate the flow and friction from your meter.You need to make sure your meter is capable of handling a larger pipe size. Volume and pressure are two different things.

If you up size the main line and your pressure drops and if you have flush valves, you're in trouble. At this time you would need to put a booster pump in or re do your job.
If you were in OC I would send our guy out there and have it sized properly.