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RMR's: New day in Police optics

LowRiver2

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LAPD should be introducing RMR's by the end of the year. Testing has shown vast improvements in accuracy on all levels of shooters in our Department. We will most likely approve Aimpoint and Trijicon. Lepould got canned after breaking several times. All Officers will have to have the RMR mounts high enough to retain steel sights in case of RMR failure.
I think it's a good thing for all involved: Less misses=less litigation, payouts for taxpayers.

An article on some of them :

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-pistol-red-dot-sights/
 

CobraDave

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Will it be required?


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EBT531

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I hope they don't just issue to everyone and expect them to learn in 50rds and call it a day. Its a pretty decent training curve not to mention they need to learn what happens when they get wet, dirty etc..
 

pronstar

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I’ve resisted optics for my handguns, but they’re starting to grow on me.


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Sleek-Jet

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Iron sites don't need batteries. One more thing to maintain and not work when I need it to.
 

LowRiver2

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I hope they don't just issue to everyone and expect them to learn in 50rds and call it a day. Its a pretty decent training curve not to mention they need to learn what happens when they get wet, dirty etc..
No,
Every recruit has to pass the academy with iron sights, that won't ever change
 

LowRiver2

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Iron sites don't need batteries. One more thing to maintain and not work when I need it to.
Trigicon is your friend, no batteries.

I maintain four other work guns, this is just one more item to check.

SCUBA gear and respirators, now that is the real maintenance work/time killer, lol.
 

LowRiver2

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Will it be required?


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No, optional

Like most firearms in LAPD, you get issued a pistol in the academy, everything else you can add later (only approved add ons), is paid by the individual Officer.
 

Blackmagic94

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LAPD should be introducing RMR's by the end of the year. Testing has shown vast improvements in accuracy on all levels of shooters in our Department. We will most likely approve Aimpoint and Trijicon. Lepould got canned after breaking several times. All Officers will have to have the RMR mounts high enough to retain steel sights in case of RMR failure.
I think it's a good thing for all involved: Less misses=less litigation, payouts for taxpayers.

An article on some of them :

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-pistol-red-dot-sights/


Hopefully they install irons that can cowitness in the 1/3 at least. I like rmr but rain they suck dick
 

Blackmagic94

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Trigicon is your friend, no batteries.

I maintain four other work guns, this is just one more item to check.

SCUBA gear and respirators, now that is the real maintenance work/time killer, lol.

But that is an issue if they use the tritium only ones the MOA is 4-6 while the electronic one is smaller.

So hard to be more accurate when the dot is covering the torso at 50 yards
 

Blackmagic94

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ALL RMR's authorized by LAPD WILL HAVE RAISED MOUNTS TO GO TO IRON SIGHTS SHOULD AN RMR fail

Dumb so super high beuwolf mount that won’t be close to axis point of aim. I guess it’s cheaper then milking the slide to get it low enough to do it right
 

LowRiver2

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I’m going with a Glock 34: for my work, I bang my guns up climbing around stuff on Bomb Calls, and do lots of stuff in the rain (surprisingly)/LAX salt dew.

I’d like the $1700 STI 9mm Marauder but it’s a high maintenance item I don’t need
 

LowRiver2

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Dumb so super high beuwolf mount that won’t be close to axis point of aim. I guess it’s cheaper then milking the slide to get it low enough to do it right
We don’t have alibi’s if the sight goes out in a gunfight, we don’t get to walk away.

I’ve fired with the mounts and I still hit 10 rings all day long.
 

Blackmagic94

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We don’t have alibi’s if the sight goes out in a gunfight, we don’t get to walk away.

I’ve fired with the mounts and I still hit 10 rings all day long.


You missed the point the correct way to mount an rmr is to have a milled slide to allow the rmr to sit low enough to have functional backup iron sights. Not mount it 2 feet above the bore
 

Blackmagic94

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50 yard shots are why rifles were invented

Sure. But you can’t always have a rifle with you all the time. What if your rifles goes black or down? The smaller moa dot of the electric only trijicon rmr is a superior sight to the tritium only variant in terms of accuracy


Dallas Pd had an officer take out a ak47 perp at 110 yards one handed with his P226 while holding his horse by the reigns a few years back
 

LowRiver2

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I Never said it can’t be done are usually am in the 8 to 9 ring at 50 yards myself pretty much everyone of our 60 D team officers can hit at 100 no problem with a 1911 iron sights
 

BONER

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So at what point would better Marksmanship Training come in, vs aiding a shooting Handicap? I'm not saying Cops can't shoot, I have no idea what kind of training they go through. But do you see my logic and train of thought?
 

Blackmagic94

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This is my race gun. P320 x five. Has a notch with two dots on the rear of the sig Romero to align with the front sight base as a back up.


What you want is a Glock 34 MOS which is already milled for the rmr. Any kind of goofy rail that raises the sight above the irons is gonna be awkward, hard to zero and easier to break or lose zero.
FF519468-C65A-4FA7-A274-FBB52E001124.jpeg
 

LowRiver2

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So at what point would better Marksmanship Training come in, vs aiding a shooting Handicap? I'm not saying Cops can't shoot, I have no idea what kind of training they go through. But do you see my logic and train of thought?
LAPD has more hours than most academies for firearms training, and our hit ratio is still less than most shooters would consider good

Just like a pistol is a defensive weapon to get you to a rifle, the RMR increases everyone’s accuracy I’ve seen use it, no matter what level they are at

Go to ITTS website if you want to see how I shoot and how I think Officers should be trained
 

t&y

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So at what point would better Marksmanship Training come in, vs aiding a shooting Handicap? I'm not saying Cops can't shoot, I have no idea what kind of training they go through. But do you see my logic and train of thought?
In the academy it's all about the basics. There are a ton of cops that are not shooters prior to getting hired, and honestly they are still not shooters after graduating from the academy. After graduating the academy, most departments have a set number of Shooting Qualifications (3 or 4) annually, but rarely push combat type shooting. All law enforcement in California are required to attend 4 hours of firearms training once every two years.... YES, you read that right. Once you graduate, you are only required to be retrained for 4 hours every two years (not including your annual qualifications). That is a state standard.

With that being said, the guys working the bigger departments generally don't get as much training as the smaller departments unless they are on special teams. It has to do with budgets and logistics of it all. Most of us take it upon ourselves to seek out training on our own dime. Sure, we get to write off bullets and travel time on our taxes, but have to pay for that stuff upfront (Unless you are lucky and your department pays for it).

From what I have experienced, cops in urban areas would be far better suited to safely operate their firearms (pistol or rifle) with a ton more close quarter combat style training than standing on a line 25 yards from the target waiting for a buzzer. Fact of the matter is most shootings are within 5 - 15 yards and people don't generally just stand in one spot.

I.M.H.O... I could care less about adding optics on a pistol. Sight picture if trained right relies on the front sight on target and is generally fuzzy (proper training will naturally line up the rear sights anyway). It's more about muscle memory and actual handling of the weapon. If you have time to relax, pick up front sight and back sight, that's great, but it is not the reality of most Officer involved shootings.
 

LHC30

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Hey Lowriver, is Scotty still running the show up there?
 

LowRiver2

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Hey Lowriver, is Scotty still running the show up there?
Uncle Scotty retired and his ITTS school has taken off well.
Bob Brown and Joe Diaz run "Eagles Nest" for renting it out city side.
The Elysian Park Firearms Training Unit is running this RMR program
Gotta love LAPD, they make me sign a form stating I have the "new duty ammo" (new round), as of May.
I haven't been issued it, needless to say my Sergeant was notified to cover my ass, lol. Guess the Bomb Squad is the last to get new ammo these days.
 

OliverNorton

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I would not be able to bring home such prizes. My scopes are pretty bad. I guess it's my poor choice of rifle scopes and how unprepared I am. Well, at least now I know unless you’re relegated—by choice or regulation—to using open sights, chances are that you’ll need to select an optic to top your long gun.
 

LowRiver2

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I would not be able to bring home such prizes. My scopes are pretty bad. I guess it's my poor choice of rifle scopes and how unprepared I am. Well, at least now I know unless you’re relegated—by choice or regulation—to using open sights, chances are that you’ll need to select an optic to top your long gun.

Um,
an AR without optics and a light is useless at night, most of the time I deploy mine.
 

LowRiver2

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In the academy it's all about the basics. There are a ton of cops that are not shooters prior to getting hired, and honestly they are still not shooters after graduating from the academy. After graduating the academy, most departments have a set number of Shooting Qualifications (3 or 4) annually, but rarely push combat type shooting. All law enforcement in California are required to attend 4 hours of firearms training once every two years.... YES, you read that right. Once you graduate, you are only required to be retrained for 4 hours every two years (not including your annual qualifications). That is a state standard.

With that being said, the guys working the bigger departments generally don't get as much training as the smaller departments unless they are on special teams. It has to do with budgets and logistics of it all. Most of us take it upon ourselves to seek out training on our own dime. Sure, we get to write off bullets and travel time on our taxes, but have to pay for that stuff upfront (Unless you are lucky and your department pays for it).

From what I have experienced, cops in urban areas would be far better suited to safely operate their firearms (pistol or rifle) with a ton more close quarter combat style training than standing on a line 25 yards from the target waiting for a buzzer. Fact of the matter is most shootings are within 5 - 15 yards and people don't generally just stand in one spot.

I.M.H.O... I could care less about adding optics on a pistol. Sight picture if trained right relies on the front sight on target and is generally fuzzy (proper training will naturally line up the rear sights anyway). It's more about muscle memory and actual handling of the weapon. If you have time to relax, pick up front sight and back sight, that's great, but it is not the reality of most Officer involved shootings.

Here's my deal with RMR: I'm 50, plan to work through the 2028 Olympics. I also work LAX regularly and the Oscars, Rams/Chargers games....

My eyesight isn't improving, and there will be a chance I need to take a shot that needs to really count in a crowd.
I have no humility in saying if I can increase my odds of getting on target quickly with an RMR in low light scnearios, I'm going to do it.

It may be a "no country for old men", but fitness and technology are tools I will use to my advantage.

And two shifts on the subway/buses pays for a CZ 10 and and RMR....easy to do.

Word is CZ 10, Sig 320(I'm not buying a Sig, whatever the newer model is), and gen 5 glocks all getting approved with the RMR's.
 

LowRiver2

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Officers 20 years and less qualify every other month, 30 round course, start at 7 yards, end up at barricade shots at 25 yards.

Bonus course is held once a week. Voluntarily shoot with your own ammo and get paid extra $ on your biweekly checks for accuracy. The course if one of the toughest courses of fire for it's speed and score. It seems easy (40 rounds, 7-25 yards distance), until you actually try to score a perfect score of 400. The course hasn't changed in over 45 years, and less than 300 out of easily 20K Officers who have tried it, have had a perfect score.
I am honored to work with the only Officer who has shot a perfect score on it with five different handguns, all iron sights, only one was a 1911 variant. Of course this guy used to spank Taran Butler back in the day when Taran wasn't so fat and could actually compete, lol.
Top score Distinguished Expert is shooting 380 or above six months consecutively. You get paid about $65 extra a month, which doesn't cover most guy's ammo costs. It's about pride and being committed to keeping you skills up.
The irony is it's only paper, amazing what little screw up's guys do when you throw some serious time into the mix.

Shotgun qual once a year, Rifle total of 9 hours each year over two training days.
 

02HoWaRd26

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I hate hate hate the look of the rmr on a pistol, however have used them and that’s a love lol. Most that are trying to knock it haven’t ever actually shot with a legit reddot I’d guess. Even on my 5.56 pistol the Aimpoint PRO is so amazing at putting you on target while moving.

However i agree with an above statement that your way better off milling the slide to drop the rmr than to raise it above irons.
 

LowRiver2

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When every miss you make costs your city potentially $1mil. Plus, any tool that improves accuracy in high stress, Murphy law scenarios is a good thing.
I’m in.
 

LowRiver2

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Where are some pictures of the new toys
Still waiting approval

It's the holsters now

Safariland is now made in Mexico

They can't export guns (even for mock up holsters) back and forth.

No one else is making retention level holsters for RMR fitted pistols.

Crazy, company moves to Mexico to save money, then is potentially losing millions in sales because they can't get guns down there to size up holsters.....bad business decision.
 

Xtrmwakeboarder

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Still waiting approval

It's the holsters now

Safariland is now made in Mexico

They can't export guns (even for mock up holsters) back and forth.

No one else is making retention level holsters for RMR fitted pistols.

Crazy, company moves to Mexico to save money, then is potentially losing millions in sales because they can't get guns down there to size up holsters.....bad business decision.
Love my 6354DO. Would you need the hood as well?
 
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