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Rough Water Advice

rebelmark75

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I have a nee to me 22’ Advantage Citation. On Lake Pleasant this weekend we had some rough water. When I go over 30mph it’s a rough ride with the boat slamming. I see other boats my size going much faster through the rough stuff. Am I doing something wrong? My wife hates when the boat pounds so I keep it kind of slow, but I bought this boat with a 496 to go fast. Thanks in advance for the advice.
 

4Waters

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I have a nee to me 22’ Advantage Citation. On Lake Pleasant this weekend we had some rough water. When I go over 30mph it’s a rough ride with the boat slamming. I see other boats my size going much faster through the rough stuff. Am I doing something wrong? My wife hates when the boat pounds so I keep it kind of slow, but I bought this boat with a 496 to go fast. Thanks in advance for the advice.
Don't trim it up, let the bow do its job
 

MK1MOD0

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Yep trim down slightly and if ya have tabs, run them even with the bottom in a neutral position.
 

SoCalDave

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In a 22'er u may experience a rather rough ride in the chop. As others have mentioned does it have trim tabs? If so trim them down a bit and see where that lands you.
 

2Driver

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I had an Advantage 21. I believe, others will chime in, but that boat has a really low dead rise angle for a 22 semi deep V. I’m thinking like 18 degrees, which is about the same as a small jet boat. The boat looks like a good boat for rough water but the hull really isn’t designed for it. I took my 21’ out twice and sold it.

Like others said, back off and drop the bow, being on the ride plate of that boat will kill you in rough water.
 
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LHC Kirby

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If you can get a chance, talk to someone with more experience on your lake and those conditions, perhaps have him/her go out with you and show you how to do it.... it's a trial by error and it's a great ride when you have it dialed in.
 

FreeBird236

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The 22 Citation is really one of the best riding for that size, much different than their 21. I would trim all the way down and experiment with the different speeds. You shouldn't need trim tabs to get the nose down if it's set up right. Remember there's limits for all boats. I believe the AZ sheriffs used one of the 22's for quite a few years because of the rough water capabilities.
 
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Rajobigguy

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As others have said trim down a bit to keep the nose planted.
Depending on the kind of chop you're dealing with will determine what else you can do. If it's wind chop then the rollers are going to be fairly consistent so going faster to get on top of it usually helps. If it's a washing machine surface created by other boats then your best bet is just slow down and plow your way through,
 

Drew

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If you have trim tabs put them down a little bit past 0* and a little bit of trim. Takes time to get to know your boat and the effects of the tabs. Ocean waves and big bodies of water with boat chop are very different and harder to read.
 

Riverryder

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when I go over chop I try and have the boat go over it from the side. If it’s coming at you try and zig zag thru it. If the bow takes the wave it will bounce. I like to have mine trimmed up to so the bow is high. But it’s just trial and error. This past weekend I did not hammer the boat and it was so much more enjoyable. Had the bimini up and just cruised.
 

77charger

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Just cause they look to be going smooth doesnt mean they really are.They can just be clueless and hammer down.Just drove your own pace who cares about the others enjoy the lake and drive!
 

SBMech

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You might benefit from inviting a few close friends or members who are more experienced than you to give you a few pointers.

The 22 citation I looked at is a pretty deep v with a lot of draft, looks like it's a I/O setup, should be some easy riding through 2' slop and bigger if you get on top of it.

Learning to read the water and how to positively counter not only wind swell but the accumulation of traffic near you takes time and experience, plus every hull and motor/drive combination drives and rides differently.

Piloting a watercraft is an active experience in swells, much different than when on glass with open water in front of you where you can simply drive it throttled up.
 

Marios Metalworks

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Congrats on the new to you boat! What’s the deadrise on a 22 Citation?

I run a 20’ closed bow on Lake Pleasant that has 21deg deadrise and is about 1000lbs lighter than your setup.

How long have you been on LP?
 

Rondog4405

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ErGk9jnXIAI_lnq.jpg
 

Steve Combs

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The roll bar boats and the huge ass Carver ripping around all day rolling 4’ wake didn’t help any today . Trim down and let the boat work. Congrats on the boat purchase
 

rebelmark75

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Congrats on the new to you boat! What’s the deadrise on a 22 Citation?

I run a 20’ closed bow on Lake Pleasant that has 21deg deadrise and is about 1000lbs lighter than your setup.

How long have you been on LP?
This was my first weekend boating on it! It’s a beautiful lake!
 

SoCalDave

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Helps soften the ride, although slightly, if she sits as far in the rear of the boat....
This 100%.
When it's rough in our little 210 all women/children set in the back, when is smooth sailing they sit in the bow at about 35-40mph and love it.
Went from Havasu to the Riversibe Resort a few years ago just before sunset and it was of an epic ride to say the least.
Just pick your timing from when to go out and a those complaints go out the window. Big water sucks in anything less that a 28'r even if it is one of the big builders.
 

QC22

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I actually think you should try different trim (and tab) positions (and speeds) for all different water conditions. Big water downwind is a lot different than into the wind, etc., etc. No two days will be the same.

One method I haven't seen mentioned here is to get in behind these faster boats. Use them to break that slop up. Can make a HUGE difference. Just keep a safe distance and you'll learn how to make this work.
 

Marios Metalworks

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This was my first weekend boating on it! It’s a beautiful lake!

Well sir her wind sure does transcend her beauty.

The main basin between cottonwood creek and honeymoon cove almost never has clean water. I exclusively transverse that area with the bow buried and the rpm’s under 3200 if I want to keep a smile on the lady’s face.

Every now and then I can get up on the pad heading south-southeast across it but the wind has to be stacking the rollers up close enough to offset the slop.

Where did you have it the worse?

A53BB182-A675-4C0B-9AD9-E5BB44F9B875.gif
 
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2Driver

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Congrats on the new to you boat! What’s the deadrise on a 22 Citation?

I run a 20’ closed bow on Lake Pleasant that has 21deg deadrise and is about 1000lbs lighter than your setup.

Like I said earlier I believe this hull is a bit flat despite its appearance. Stay off the pad In rough water.
6 people, heavy flat hull…. its going to be a little rough in bigger water. It’s still a nice boat, just adjust expectations and enjoy it.

7108A9C6-3C88-4D46-B4C2-3B5FB4329DE6.jpeg
 

QC22

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Ooooohhhh ^^^^^^ I always thought they were steeper as well. That's the majority of the issue. Sadly slowwww is probably the only solution. I will throw out tabs again. Use them to stay on plane in rough water, saw 15 MPH, and can be really smooth, but not gonna go fast (even 30 mph) in much bad water without getting beat up. There are some times when you can stay on top, but that's gonna depend on multiple factors, load, wind, etc. etc. again.
 

rebelmark75

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Well sir her wind sure does transcend her beauty.

The main basin between cottonwood creek and honeymoon cove almost never has clean water. I exclusively transverse that area with the bow buried and the rpm’s under 3200 if I want to keep a smile on the lady’s face.

Every now and then I can get up on the pad heading south-southeast across it but the wind has to be stacking the rollers up close enough to offset the slop.

Where did you have it the worse?

View attachment 1116317
Exactly where you said. It was messy out there.
 

Hydroman55

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As others have said trim down a bit to keep the nose planted.
Depending on the kind of chop you're dealing with will determine what else you can do. If it's wind chop then the rollers are going to be fairly consistent so going faster to get on top of it usually helps. If it's a washing machine surface created by other boats then your best bet is just slow down and plow your way through,
This….
 

Riverryder

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but I bought this boat with a 496 to go fast
496s are only fast with the bimni down... but not faster then a 800hp floating dock....


you just need to get out and use the boat. i let the women captain the boat this weekend. i kept having to tell her turn now, slow down, trim up, trim down. so on the way back to the ramp my 9yo drove so he could show her what to do.
 

Desert Whaler

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Sometimes not taking a straight course where you're taking it in the teeth is an option.
Last fall I got caught way down lake from Cottonwood on Mojave when the wind cranked up in my little boat.
I tried to wait out the wind before returning, but it kept howling.
I tacked across that 'basin' 3 times at an 'angle' and it made the ride 10X better, . . . took longer of course.
I know that's not ideal, but my back doesn't like the 'hits', and my Pops is way to old for that abuse.

I know every boat is different and this may not help your situation at all, but I switched from a 3 blade to a 4 blade prop and it made all the difference in the world on my little rig.
It helped lift the stern, which keeps the bow entry doing it's job in rough water.
Along with better hole-shot, it also lowered my minimum planning speed with the added 'grip'.
Another benefit of the 4-blade in my particular case is the throttle to thrust response which is now much better. I can punch it a little to get the bow up quicker over a swell/ chop, and when I see a pot-hole coming, I'll back off the throttle and it's like pulling a parachute.
I had to go down 2 inches in pitch, so my top end took a hit, but I don't care due to the all the other benefits. Also, the 4-blade pulls skiers, toys with ease.

Prop change may have zero effect in your particular boat, but I just wanted to throw it out there as a consideration.
 

evantwheeler

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I think there are also other variables that dictates how a smaller boat rides in "rough water".

1. Wave length, distance between peaks of waves
2. Height of the waves from crest to trough
3. Direction of wind and direction of travel with respect to wind.

Havasu had some decent swells on Sunday of desert storm, we were out in my Ultra 23XS, which is probably comparable in size to your boat, but I'm closed bow. Coming back from river to channel I was driving with the wind, and it was rough, but bearable maintaining a cruising speed of 35 mph up to the no wake zone. I cruised the channel and came back to Windsor around the island driving into the wind once I rounded the island, and it was miserable. My old man broke my passenger seat base due to some of the impacts (granted, it was structurally compromised from a poor design and missing subwoofer). The same waves I had just cruised over top of were beating the shit out of us. I just had to keep the nose high and go at a ~30 degree angle to the wind to keep the slap tolerable.

If it's really rough and you try to keep speed, you run the risk of timing the waves such that you take an entire wave over the bow, not something I would want to risk in any case, but especially with family on board.
 

Riverryder

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but I switched from a 3 blade to a 4 blade prop and it made all the difference in the world on my little rig.
this is a good idea too. i have a 3 blade and a 4 blade. i hate the 4 blade because it makes the boat feel more planted. with the 4 blade its boring.... the 3 blade makes the boat feel lighter more sporty. i just keep the 4 blade on board as a back up.
 

Desert Whaler

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this is a good idea too. i have a 3 blade and a 4 blade. i hate the 4 blade because it makes the boat feel more planted. with the 4 blade its boring.... the 3 blade makes the boat feel lighter more sporty. i just keep the 4 blade on board as a back up.
Totally agree 100% . . . in my case the 4-blade was sort of a 'Band-Aid-Fix'.
I've got some weight-distribution issues in my little rig and with a 3-blade it was too 'flighty', and not in a good way.
If I yanked some of the weight out of the thing I'd go back to the 3 blade for sure.
 

Mandelon

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Still, it's only 22 feet. Does that dimension include a swim step?
 

MK1MOD0

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That’s a great pic ! So cool to a young family out boating. It s making memories for life. As for the cruising in the rough, you’ll get the sweet spot figured out in no time. We owned a competition ski boat for over 20 years. It’s basically a flat bottom.... and ya just figure out where it likes to cruise , speed wise, when it’s rough. Nothing better when is glass though. And I’m sure your boat will be the same.
 

Hydroman55

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Ok a war story…. I remember when a 21 day cruiser was more than adequate on any weekend short of a very windy day. Not sure most folks even understand most all the chop comes from the large amount of boat traffic on the lake nowadays.
 

evantwheeler

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Ok a war story…. I remember when a 21 day cruiser was more than adequate on any weekend short of a very windy day. Not sure most folks even understand most all the chop comes from the large amount of boat traffic on the lake nowadays.
I will disagree with you. In the 100+hrs i've put on my boats in 3 seasons at Mead, Mohave, and Havasu, the only time I have thought it was rough was solely due to wind. This is in a 22' boat. I'm sure Parker or some local smaller lakes it is a different story, but I've never boated on Parker. The only boats getting affected by boat chop on a larger body of water likely have less than 18" of freeboard and they're wishing they had stayed at home if the wind picks up at all.
 

Motor Boater

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Pleasant is always rough as shit because of the amount of boats, confused seas and wind. Lots of wind there.
 

Hydroman55

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I will disagree with you. In the 100+hrs i've put on my boats in 3 seasons at Mead, Mohave, and Havasu, the only time I have thought it was rough was solely due to wind. This is in a 22' boat. I'm sure Parker or some local smaller lakes it is a different story, but I've never boated on Parker. The only boats getting affected by boat chop on a larger body of water likely have less than 18" of freeboard and they're wishing they had stayed at home if the wind picks up at all.
Dude I’m talking 30 - 40 years ago (yes I’m old)….In the day you could anchor out at Crazy Horse beach with a Flatbottom or Hydro and never worry about swamping, try that on a windless Saturday today.

BTW….length and bottom design has more to do with ride quality than “freeboard”.
 

mbrown2

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I always found it interesting that Advantage made the 21SR which had the 21 degree deadrise and was a perfect lake boat for afternoon chop in such a small package and then when they built the 22 it only had a 16 degree deadrise. Again in smooth water a less steep v is likely going to plane easier, be more stable and perform better with less HP than a steep v..... but when the water changes that steep v is going to cut right through it... LEO used those 21 SR's for a long time on the strip....figured they were good rough water boat...
 

FreeBird236

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The 22 Citation is really one of the best riding for that size, much different than their 21. I would trim all the way down and experiment with the different speeds. You shouldn't need trim tabs to get the nose down if it's set up right. Remember there's limits for all boats. I believe the AZ sheriffs used one of the 22's for quite a few years because of the rough water capabilities.
Like I said earlier I believe this hull is a bit flat despite its appearance. Stay off the pad In rough water.
6 people, heavy flat hull…. its going to be a little rough in bigger water. It’s still a nice boat, just adjust expectations and enjoy it.

View attachment 1116372
I always found it interesting that Advantage made the 21SR which had the 21 degree deadrise and was a perfect lake boat for afternoon chop in such a small package and then when they built the 22 it only had a 16 degree deadrise. Again in smooth water a less steep v is likely going to plane easier, be more stable and perform better with less HP than a steep v..... but when the water changes that steep v is going to cut right through it... LEO used those 21 SR's for a long time on the strip....figured they were good rough water boat...
Looks like on my reply I had the SR21 and the Citation 22 mixed up.🤪
 

2Driver

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I always found it interesting that Advantage made the 21SR which had the 21 degree deadrise and was a perfect lake boat for afternoon chop in such a small package and then when they built the 22 it only had a 16 degree deadrise. Again in smooth water a less steep v is likely going to plane easier, be more stable and perform better with less HP than a steep v..... but when the water changes that steep v is going to cut right through it... LEO used those 21 SR's for a long time on the strip....figured they were good rough water boat...
My 21SR with a 454 MPI jet wouldn’t plane until 4 Grand and even then it was nose up.

LOL 2 rides and it was sold. The gel and upholstery work were awesome though.
 
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