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Ruby Ridge

4Waters

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Who remembers it? Randy Weaver passed today and it got me going down the rabbit hole reading on it again. I was rather young when it went down, but still remember seeing it on the news. Wild stuff.
I was thinking about this the other day
 

Shlbyntro

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I was too young but do know about it,

there is a school of thought that the heavy handedness of the .gov at Ruby Ridge and subsequently in Waco were the catalysts that ultimately switched the flip in Timothy McVeigh leading to the bombing of the federal building in OK City. Not that I condone the bombing in any way whatsoever, but one does have to wonder if any of it would have happened if the FBI and ATF would have just let those groups be as they were otherwise peaceful up until they were put into a corner. And inversely would something have happened further on down the road if the .gov didnt attempt to disarm them when they did??

You really cant study one without studying the other 2
 

monkeyswrench

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Since I'm already on lists:
FBI started a whole hell of a lot of problems...got two killed, two wounded...for a guy that was found guilty of "Failure to Appear"
Fuq the "sniper" that took a head shot at a lady holding a newborn...he "wasn't aiming for her"

One of the F'rs killed a dog too!
 

rivrrts429

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Since I'm already on lists:
FBI started a whole hell of a lot of problems...got two killed, two wounded...for a guy that was found guilty of "Failure to Appear"
Fuq the "sniper" that took a head shot at a lady holding a newborn...he "wasn't aiming for her"

One of the F'rs killed a dog too!


FBI has become the enemy of the citizens.
 

rivrrts429

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Sad to say but you're right... I had a few FBI partners, good folks and I considered friends as well... There are A Few Good People

The people are great. It’s the ones they report to that have been corrupted. It’s a cult of sorts. We learned just the tip of the iceberg with the Clinton cover-up. They control the media thus the narrative. This country is full of people who’d rather bury their heads. It’s fine but don’t complain when Biden is crowned the most popular president ever (81M votes) 😂
 

4Waters

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I was too young but do know about it,

there is a school of thought that the heavy handedness of the .gov at Ruby Ridge and subsequently in Waco were the catalysts that ultimately switched the flip in Timothy McVeigh leading to the bombing of the federal building in OK City. Not that I condone the bombing in any way whatsoever, but one does have to wonder if any of it would have happened if the FBI and ATF would have just let those groups be as they were otherwise peaceful up until they were put into a corner. And inversely would something have happened further on down the road if the .gov didnt attempt to disarm them when they did??

You really cant study one without studying the other 2
W: We
A: Ain't
C: Coming
O: Out
 

Desert Whaler

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Work got called-off, so straight into 'weekend mode'. :cool:
Second time I've been reminded it's only 'thursday' in the last hour! . . . but You guys still need to 'settle down', 🤣
 

Looking Glass

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Waco, was another "Cluster Fuck" The Branch Davidian, headed by David Koresh were underestimated and when the ATF agents decided to "Take" the Compound they got their Ass blown off the Roof. Then Janet Reno decided to "Step It Up" and the Fire consumed the Compound and everyone inside. I saw a Documentary where many residents of WACO said that Koresh could have been arrested any day when he drove to town to get supplies and mail, but there just had to be the Big Spectacle of A "Take Down" that backfired horribly.:(
 

Nanu/Nanu

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Ah man! Talk about some very interesting stories! All happened before my memory but I have read books about both incidents.
 

JDKRXW

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I was too young but do know about it,

there is a school of thought that the heavy handedness of the .gov at Ruby Ridge and subsequently in Waco were the catalysts that ultimately switched the flip in Timothy McVeigh leading to the bombing of the federal building in OK City. Not that I condone the bombing in any way whatsoever, but one does have to wonder if any of it would have happened if the FBI and ATF would have just let those groups be as they were otherwise peaceful up until they were put into a corner. And inversely would something have happened further on down the road if the .gov didnt attempt to disarm them when they did??

You really cant study one without studying the other 2
Funny (not haha type of funny) how the FBI employees were told not to go to work in the Oklahoma City building that McVeigh attacked.. and nothing was said to anyone else.😡
 

monkeyswrench

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Idaho, not Oregon, but same same lol
Take AZ 389 to Cane Beds rd...towards the south side of the Coral Pink Sand Dunes...there's a road named after Finicum...his family lives out there, that's where his home was.

Oddly enough, McVeigh had a mailing address near Kingman before he was nailed for the bombing.

Rumor has it that there are some relatively hard-core "sovereign citizen" folk up near Ash Fork and Seligman. Maybe, maybe not. Most I've met up there just want to be left alone. Not the types to start fights, but I think they can handle themselves.
 

Looking Glass

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Take AZ 389 to Cane Beds rd...towards the south side of the Coral Pink Sand Dunes...there's a road named after Finicum...his family lives out there, that's where his home was.

Oddly enough, McVeigh had a mailing address near Kingman before he was nailed for the bombing.

Rumor has it that there are some relatively hard-core "sovereign citizen" folk up near Ash Fork and Seligman. Maybe, maybe not. Most I've met up there just want to be left alone. Not the types to start fights, but I think they can handle themselves.
Timothy McVeigh, The Children were "Collateral Damage":(
 

monkeyswrench

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Timothy McVeigh, The Children were "Collateral Damage":(
No matter how you look at it, he was a nut case. Guilty? I believe so. Were him and Nichols the only ones? No, I don't believe so. There were too many weird coincidences, things that led to what were defined as the targets being relatively untouched. Not to mention, if it were for the reasons given, why not target Texas or Idaho field offices?

OKC happened my senior year in high school. It was pretty shocking, to have things like Ruby Ridge, Waco and OKC happen in a relatively short time frame. As a kid, I remember seeing the IRA bombings on the news, so it happening on American soil was huge.

Funny though. Bombings have given way to mass shootings. The materials for many explosive compounds can be purchased almost anywhere. No ID or check needed for a lot of them. Not rocket science either...
A black rifle is an evil thing though.
Think about that for a moment.
 

4Waters

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Take AZ 389 to Cane Beds rd...towards the south side of the Coral Pink Sand Dunes...there's a road named after Finicum...his family lives out there, that's where his home was.

Oddly enough, McVeigh had a mailing address near Kingman before he was nailed for the bombing.

Rumor has it that there are some relatively hard-core "sovereign citizen" folk up near Ash Fork and Seligman. Maybe, maybe not. Most I've met up there just want to be left alone. Not the types to start fights, but I think they can handle themselves.
My wife's uncle tattooed Timothy McVeigh's chest (exploding bomb) a couple days after the bombing, ATF and FBI showed up at the parlor the day before they arrested him.

Edit:

Wife had surgery this morning (out patient foot surgery for a bunion) and she was asleep, @rrrr pointed out that there was question to the time-line. She is now awake.

He tattooed him the week before and the 3 letter agencies came to talk to her Uncle after the bombing wondering if he knew what he was planning or any red flags while doing the tattoo.
 
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coolchange

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Another rabbit hole how the c I a fried the unabombers brain doing lsd experiments.
 

monkeyswrench

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Weaver wasn't an white extremist like the media portrayed him. He was a separatist. Birds of a feather fly together.
He should have sued the media like Richard Jewell successfully did.
He did sue the FBI and other LEO for wrongful deaths. His three surviving children ended up with a million each for the loss of their mom and brother. I can't remember if he got anything.

Maybe he'd just figured he'd spent enough time in courtrooms? I think he just wanted to go back to obscurity, a simple life away from society.
 

white tortilla

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Spark notes,

Guy is war vet, doesnt like the govt. Wife a little too close to god. They go live in the woods minding their own business. Don't really like people encroaching on property. He sells a couple shotguns to a informant with short barrels, court dates are mixed up on paper and decides the three letter agencies have it out for him. The agencies start surveillance on his house wearing camo and sneaking around adding to his paranoia.

Marshalls show up a scared walking around in the woods not announcing there presence, dog hears them, they shoot his dog in the ass, dead, shoot his kid in the back dead, shoot his wife in the head, dead. Hes branded as a nut job by media.

Pretty much played out exactly like he was worried it would.
 

pwerwagn

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The WACO mini series was one of my favorite shows. Hard to watch a second time knowing the end, but they did a good job with it.

I wonder if anyone will ever make a tv show about the "toy box killer", David Parker Ray. That one is pretty brutal.
 

MPHSystems

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Rumor has it that there are some relatively hard-core "sovereign citizen" folk up near Ash Fork and Seligman. Maybe, maybe not. Most I've met up there just want to be left alone. Not the types to start fights, but I think they can handle themselves.

Rumor has it there may be one or two…..
 

rrrr

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My wife's uncle tattooed Timothy McVeigh's chest (exploding bomb) a couple days after the bombing, ATF and FBI showed up at the parlor the day before they arrested him.
That would mean her Uncle was in in Oklahoma's Noble County jail, because that's where Timothy McVeigh had been since his arrest 90 minutes after a bomb destroyed the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.

He was stopped on Interstate 35 north of OKC for driving a car with no license plate. When the trooper saw McVeigh had a pistol in a body holster under his jacket, he was arrested. From that arrest to his execution, he was always in the custody of law enforcement.

On April 19, 1995, Hanger — an Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper so by-the-book that locals swore he’d ticket his own mother — arrested Timothy J. McVeigh, 90 minutes after a fertilizer bomb in a Ryder rental truck exploded outside the federal building in Oklahoma City.

 

4Waters

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That would mean her Uncle was in in Oklahoma's Noble County jail, because that's where Timothy McVeigh had been since his arrest 90 minutes after a bomb destroyed the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.

He was stopped on Interstate 35 north of OKC for driving a car with no license plate. When the trooper saw McVeigh had a pistol in a body holster under his jacket, he was arrested. From that arrest to his execution, he was always in the custody of law enforcement.

On April 19, 1995, Hanger — an Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper so by-the-book that locals swore he’d ticket his own mother — arrested Timothy J. McVeigh, 90 minutes after a fertilizer bomb in a Ryder rental truck exploded outside the federal building in Oklahoma City.

Shit maybe a couple days before and ATF and FBI came in a couple days after, it's been about 8 years since we saw him last and he passed a year ago of cancer. It was a bad ass tattoo, he had pics that he showed us in his album. We miss him a lot of cool stories.

Little bit of his work

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rivrrts429

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Not only the fbi
The entire government

100%, the CIA/FBI/NSA are pulling the levers for Biden and this administration. We citizens are at war with our government and the more society wants to turn the cheek the more emboldened they become. Quite possible it’s already too late which would make the liberals happy.
 

RiverDave

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I was too young but do know about it,

there is a school of thought that the heavy handedness of the .gov at Ruby Ridge and subsequently in Waco were the catalysts that ultimately switched the flip in Timothy McVeigh leading to the bombing of the federal building in OK City. Not that I condone the bombing in any way whatsoever, but one does have to wonder if any of it would have happened if the FBI and ATF would have just let those groups be as they were otherwise peaceful up until they were put into a corner. And inversely would something have happened further on down the road if the .gov didnt attempt to disarm them when they did??

You really cant study one without studying the other 2

It isn’t a school Of thought l.. it is 100% the reason he blew up OKC, because of what transpired in WACO.

He used to hang out at Lake Alamo at wayside.. there is a street named after him out there as well.
 

HydroSkreamin

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I remember hearing about OKC bombing and seeing the carnage; what horror to see half of a building standing knowing there were people and children in there. I remember feeling angry about how someone could put innocent people in harms way intentionally.

Fast forward 15+ years. Our family took a trip to Washington DC to visit my BIL and take in the sights. The Newseum was one of the places we visited, and it had all sorts of evidence from different 3-letter acronym divisions on display from Dillinger days to 9/11, including evidence that was used in the unibomber trial, but the two most harrowing things that left my head spinning was all of the 9/11 evidence, such as people’s wallets half-burned with credit cards in their slots, teddy bears, etc, and the crankshaft from the rental truck used by Timothy McVeigh. I’ve taken a lot of crankshafts out of engines in my lifetime, but to see the entire crank, rods and pistons with ZERO pieces of block/mains around them just spun my head. Obviously we saw what happened to the building, but imagine the force it took to disintegrate a cast iron block and toss the hundreds of pounds of mass onto the street many yards from where it originated still baffles me.

And then you realize how much force was used and you get angry all over again…
 

monkeyswrench

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Regardless of the who or how with OKC, standing at the pool, the memorial, near sundown, is a weird thing. "Hallowed Ground" comes to mind. Only three places I've been in my life gave the same "energy": Gettysburg, the Arizona Memorial and OKC. I don't know if it's just me and my thoughts, or if there is some weird trace left of those who passed.
 
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