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Sad day at the pond.

460

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Got a call a bit ago that someone committed suicide at the sag today. Don't have the details all I know is he hiked up and jumped from the flag. Thoughts and prayers to his family and wife and kid who I believe was there. Sad deal, to much of this shit as of late.
 

tkrrox

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rest in pieces...i feel for the family not the deceased...i think suicide is chicken shit
i knew a guy who tried to do suicide by police, it didn't work so he blew his brains out...left 2 young boys and a wife...i can't imagine what that family is dealing with.

very sad for the ones left to pick up pieces.
 

RitcheyRch

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Thats terrible news. :(

My thoughts and prayers are out to his surviving family.
 

SuperJet

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I believe a person can do anything they want in life, BUT kill themselves. Suicide is the most selfish ting a person can do. I feel for the family that is left to pick up the pieces.
 

Fourspeednup

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Agreed it sucks either way but from what I heard it wasn't necessarily a suicide. May have made the wrong choice in jump spots and paid the ultimate price.
 

Lunatic Fringe

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Agreed it sucks either way but from what I heard it wasn't necessarily a suicide. May have made the wrong choice in jump spots and paid the ultimate price.

That cliff is insanely high. I don't know how a person mistakenly picks that spot but it may very well not have been suicide.
Nobody in their right mind would think they could survive that jump.
 

cave

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I was There. I don't know if he committed suicide. Today we witnessed a person jump off a cliff to his death. Sad fathers day at the sag
 

Tishimself

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Did he hit the water wrong? Or too hard? Or the rocks?? Could someone post up a pic of where he jumped from please?
 

coz

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Got a call a bit ago that someone committed suicide at the sag today. Don't have the details all I know is he hiked up and jumped from the flag. Thoughts and prayers to his family and wife and kid who I believe was there. Sad deal, to much of this shit as of late.

From here? :eek

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Singleton

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That is about 120 feet up and the water is only 20 or 30 feet deep.

Thought go out to the guys family.
 

renodaytona

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If it was an accident that really sucks, if it was suicide as stated that's a chicken shit way out. Sorry to hear that the family was there to witness it either way.
 

460

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If it was an accident that really sucks, if it was suicide as stated that's a chicken shit way out. Sorry to hear that the family was there to witness it either way.

You have to go out if your way to even get up there. It's not like it's a little hike and you just happened upon the spot, he had to had intentions to even make the hike. Sad either way, and yes I agree he took the punk way out. I'm sorry, but to me nothing in the world is worth taking my own life.
 

ONE-A-DAY

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No way in hell he would of thought he could have made that.
 

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You have to go out if your way to even get up there. It's not like it's a little hike and you just happened upon the spot, he had to had intentions to even make the hike. Sad either way, and yes I agree he took the punk way out. I'm sorry, but to me nothing in the world is worth taking my own life.

Was wife and kids cheering him on to jump or were they telling him to come back down??? That might help determine what his intensions were:( Regardless, sad all all get out for the surviving family :(

From my POS T-mobile thingie
 

460

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Was wife and kids cheering him on to jump or were they telling him to come back down??? That might help determine what his intensions were:( Regardless, sad all all get out for the surviving family :(

From my POS T-mobile thingie

I wasn't there. Cave was and I'm sure he will chime in.

That is NOT a typical jump spot so I'm guessing no.
 

h2o225

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Holy shit that is way up there. Thoughts for his family
 

Motor Boater

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Was wife and kids cheering him on to jump or were they telling him to come back down??? That might help determine what his intensions were:( Regardless, sad all all get out for the surviving family :(

From my POS T-mobile thingie

Like 460 said this is NOT a jump spot. The pic may be deceiving but that's not a cliff...it's a dam mountain. Jumping from there would be instant death. It's probably 5 times higher than the cliff people jump off in copper canyon.
 

Froggystyle

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Anybody been up there? Is that coyote or whatever it is the height of a person, or smaller? How high up is the flag you figure?

I ask because I can figure out the height pretty easily with photo-metrics I have if I know that number. I could use the buoys, but they aren't right on the mountain so it would be skewed by parallax.

I have jumped off of a 70' "cliff" before. It is a pretty heavy deal. I did it at night, and the biggest thing I remember was how badly it hurt my feet (should have worn shoes) and how far under I went. I couldn't tell which end was up, and didn't have the wherewithal to clear my ears on the way down, so I got to the bottom with a hell of an earache until I cleared them and figure I was 20' under... not knowing which way to swim.

I don't think this is 120' from looking at it. I am guessing it is in the 90' range... which is survivable to say the least.
 

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Like has been said, that is a very high cliff... I can't imagine anyone thinking they could survive that
 

Lunatic Fringe

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The news is reporting it as a 300' cliff.
http://www.kpho.com/story/22613804/saguaro-lake-cliff-jumper-presumed-drowned
Now we all know the media is not too concerned about accuracy but that IS NOT a cliff anyone would jump from expecting to survive. At least not someone in their right mind.
A person who knows the guy is saying it was not his wife and child with him but a friend and her child.
 

460

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The news is reporting it as a 300' cliff.
http://www.kpho.com/story/22613804/saguaro-lake-cliff-jumper-presumed-drowned
Now we all know the media is not too concerned about accuracy but that IS NOT a cliff anyone would jump from expecting to survive. At least not someone in their right mind.
A person who knows the guy is saying it was not his wife and child with him but a friend and her child.

Correct. Just saw where it was his friend.

There is no way someone in there right mind try's that jump. I'm sorry just not a cliff you jump from.

To even get there is a pain in the ass.
 

Hammer

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Things like this get me irritated, friends and family are in your life to help you get through the tough roads in life. Suicide is never a excusable solution, no matter what kind of tough times you are having.......

No sympathy for the deceased, feel bad for the ones he left behind :(
 

C-2

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Suicide.

A guy races boats, cars or motorcycles for recreation and dies as a result. Yet, he's a hero. His family will now be destitute, but taht's ok because he died "doing what he loved to do."
A person who chooses to smoke, drink, or do illicit drugs and later dies of health complications or disease, and that's sad, but we're not mad at them.
Similarly, an overweight, or just plain unhealthy person refuses to get better, or get healthy, and dies as the result, and that's sad too, but hey, that's life and we never second guess the choices they could have made which might have prevented their untimely or premature death.

Yet, a person can be so fawked up in the head that they feel the only way out is to end their life, and after they do, they're an asshole? Fuck them?

It's beyond words that a person feels so lonely and is in such despair, that not even their closest loved ones, not religion or God, not even booze or drugs, nobody or nothing can help them. What kind of world must that be to live in from day to day? A pretty fuckin sad one if you ask me.

And save the melodramatics; I doubt anybody making these comments has ever had to deal with it intimately. And by that I mean an immediate family member who you love, and speak to daily. There's a different level of understanding you achieve when it's that close, and after you and other family members sit awake at night, night after night, searching your own soul for an answer that will never be found. Whole different ballgame than hearing about an estranged relative, or friend you have not seen in years, or the random person you read about in the news.

I'll readily admit that depression or mental illness is not the reason for all suicides, but it's the root cause for a large number of them.

It's easy for us to sit and cast judgment, mainly because we're not mentally ill, or suffering from depression, and we have no fucking clue about what's taking place inside a sick persons mind.

And, thank god for that.
 

coolchange

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Thanks C2, I was just going to post up a little on the other view. Not that I think its OK, and I know a few who have done it and am still mad at them, But if you can imagine that feeling when you found out your kid had a incurable disease, or your spouse blind sided you with "I want out", or a loved one dies. And feeling likethat all the time for no reason... Or being in such pain you contemplate a "way out" every day, well then...
 

Cray Paper

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C2 nailed it. From the outside it's easy to come to the conclusion that a person took the easy way out. Think about your point of view then what the persons point of view who took their own life was. I guy I worked with several years ago that took his own life with a shotgun in his front yard. He was a great guy, great husband and father. No one, and I mean no one knows why he did it. 2 years later, no answers. Obviously the guy had some huge mental issues that he was not capable of dealing with and didn't / wouldn't / couldn't talk to anyone about.

Doesn't matter, he is gone and his wife a kids are left to deal with the loss of him, their home and the life they once knew.
 

Froggystyle

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FWIW, having some teammates that have committed or discussed suicide, I have developed my own take/conclusions on the subject.

We all make mistakes, and suffer from bad judgment at times. The thing about all of my mistakes was that I have survived them to learn from them. From financial to romantic to ethical decisions... None of them have killed me, and so I was able to see them all as successes or failures.

Suicide... Done properly is a decision you don't live to regret. It is a brand of bad decision that you can't look back on later... And you take any lessons with you.

It is inconceivable to me... But I have done a lot of stupid/dumb/irresponsible/selfish shit in my life, and could see how in the heat of a moment, anything can be justified... Especially if drunk or high.

Hell... I squared up on a 6'8" lineman from the Norfolk Sharks football team once. This is pre-SEALs, and I weighed 145# soaking wet. He told me he was going to snap my back. That got my attention apparently, but I don't remember at all because I was black-out drunk. The last time I was BTW... The story I heard the next day was that the guy was big enough to beat me up, and then beat up my buddies using me as a bat...

My .02.
 
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LowRiver2

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It's easy for us to sit and cast judgment, mainly because we're not mentally ill, or suffering from depression, and we have no fucking clue about what's taking place inside a sick persons mind.

And, thank god for that.

Amen to that,

May 1st was the 1 year anniversary my BROTHER put a Sig 226 to his head, Black Talon round, and pulled the trigger, age 51.

To those who say they feel no empathy for the person who does this obviously haven't had enough LIFE EXPERIENCE to know better, or to attempt to think about what they post.

That said, I knew his problems for most of my 44 years I grew up with him. There are no winners, I can deduct easily what pushed my brother over the edge, and yes, there are things I could have done differently. It's on each of us left behind to understand what our roles were, know that some things happen no matter which direction your actions, decisions are regarding the person that decides to do themselves.

My brother's only "note", no magazine in the Sig, he had one bullet and didn't want to hurt anyone else.

As far as the void, while I had a rocky adult relationship with him, you damn well bet I miss him every damn day.

RIP AZ man, I hope you have found it.
 

Magic34

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One of my best friends took the suicide route. 13 years before his death, the same month, he was engineering a train and came to a crossing where a road grader was on the tracks. He couldn't stop the train, hit the grader. He knew the operator who was killed. This accident changed his life. He felt enormous guilt like he killed the guy.

Every August, he'd disappear for the month fighting the demons in him. The pain from the depression was unbearable. Finally, after 13 years, he took his life in late August. This was back in 2009. He was such a positiv influence to so many people, except for the month of August every year.

For someone struggling with this, they truly believe that their loved ones would be better off without them.

I used to think like many of you, until I started to understand the disease more and watch a close friend struggle, eventually losing his battle with depression.
 

Tishimself

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Sigh....this is a tough subject. Seven people have walked or driven in front of my train. Which raises the question, am I the bullet or the gun in thier last moments. None of them made it. None. So I have as close an experience with suicide as it gets, not withstanding the number of suicides I respond to as a relief engineer.

Suicide sucks. Period. Plain and simple. Last one I responded to was a couple weeks ago. I hate it. But consider this, for a moment. Not everyone who does this does it because of some past life whatever they cant get over, some people end up doing it because they are on meds, and the meds screw them up. NO matter how it happens, it is tragic, but honestly, to sit around and try to get an answer to the why of it, and I am talking to you, C2, does not help you. They have thier reasons, and whatever they are, they are powerful enough to overcome all fear of death. Whatever it is that put them there, it's over. Be at peace with that. Understand that even if you had sat in the room with a person contemplating suicide, odds are they will find a way around you. Last person I watched get put in a bag had been being looked for frantically for a few hours. She walked ten miles to the tracks, waited till the last second, and stepped out. So what do I learn from all this, what is it I take with me? Thats it's a waste of a life. A totally selfish act. With no regards to family, or to whomever is affected by it. ANd those are left behind by it, with all the questions, are the worst hit by these moments. There are no answers C2, and you need to understand there may never be, and make peace with that, I hope you can sir. I have seen personally the affect on family as they show up at the site, the reactions to the incident. I always get the same question, why? I wish I knew, I wish I had something I could say to hlep them, but there are no words, just a sense of waste. I hope this helps you C2, I hope this gives you an answer you can use, and that you can get past all of it, I dont blame them persay, I just know that whatever it was that got them there, is over. And they are in a better place, no longer in pain. I say a little prayer for them, and hop up in the cab, and finish the trip....best to all of you, answers such as these, are elusive, if non existent at best. I hope he finds peace if he did indeed commit suicide. Brett
 

Mr. C

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C-2,

All i got is,

THANK YOU!!
 

Flyinbowtie

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I don't judge those that do it...but I struggle to find sympathy for the cases where it was a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
I admit a bias.
I have cleaned up the mess.
As in...cleaned up the mess.
My youngest was 15 years old. It is a story I only tell in person. RD heard it.
I was the first on scene, handled the coroners case.
My oldest was a murder-suicide of an older man and his bedridden, cancer racked wife.
They'd been married 60 years.
First on scene, handled the coroners cases.
There were several dozen others.
One with a chainsaw. You cannot imagine...
After investigating some of these events, and what was going on in the lives of the victims I found understanding for a few...the older couple for sure, but several that just made no sense. I always wondered while working those cases if they now wished they'd found another solution.
The man who finds a quiet place and ends his life, trying to exercise the demons he is struggling with, then I pray for him and for those he leaves behind. I can't remember the Stat, but children of suicide victims are much more likely to commit suicide later in life.
The person who makes a big production out of it, trying to impact as many people as possible and leave as much hurt behind...I don't get it.
Like the guy who had his entire family at the dinner table on Thanksgiving Day, and when it was time for the Blessing he pulled a pistol and evacuated his skull. In front of his wife, children, and grandchildren...
First on scene....
No sympathy for him from me.
Like most events in humanity, it isn't simple. It is, however, always a permanent solution to what is far too often a temporary problem.
We need to take better care of ourselves, and each other.
 

Tishimself

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Or the guy who steps out on front of my train and strands 250 people for 3-4 hours....no sympthy...none...
 

C-2

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Sigh....this is a tough subject. Seven people have walked or driven in front of my train. Which raises the question, am I the bullet or the gun in thier last moments. None of them made it. None. So I have as close an experience with suicide as it gets, not withstanding the number of suicides I respond to as a relief engineer.

Suicide sucks. Period. Plain and simple. Last one I responded to was a couple weeks ago. I hate it. But consider this, for a moment. Not everyone who does this does it because of some past life whatever they cant get over, some people end up doing it because they are on meds, and the meds screw them up. NO matter how it happens, it is tragic, but honestly, to sit around and try to get an answer to the why of it, and I am talking to you, C2, does not help you. They have thier reasons, and whatever they are, they are powerful enough to overcome all fear of death. Whatever it is that put them there, it's over. Be at peace with that. Understand that even if you had sat in the room with a person contemplating suicide, odds are they will find a way around you. Last person I watched get put in a bag had been being looked for frantically for a few hours. She walked ten miles to the tracks, waited till the last second, and stepped out. So what do I learn from all this, what is it I take with me? Thats it's a waste of a life. A totally selfish act. With no regards to family, or to whomever is affected by it. ANd those are left behind by it, with all the questions, are the worst hit by these moments. There are no answers C2, and you need to understand there may never be, and make peace with that, I hope you can sir. I have seen personally the affect on family as they show up at the site, the reactions to the incident. I always get the same question, why? I wish I knew, I wish I had something I could say to hlep them, but there are no words, just a sense of waste. I hope this helps you C2, I hope this gives you an answer you can use, and that you can get past all of it, I dont blame them persay, I just know that whatever it was that got them there, is over. And they are in a better place, no longer in pain. I say a little prayer for them, and hop up in the cab, and finish the trip....best to all of you, answers such as these, are elusive, if non existent at best. I hope he finds peace if he did indeed commit suicide. Brett

Our family is cool with everything; we found peace shortly after it happened. We know the reasons why. At the end of the day and after you take "inventory" of a person's life and everything is in order (surrounded by love, no money or health issues, no drugs/dependency or pain/illness), then it becomes clear that a person was living in a different world; at least inside their own head. There is no other plausible explanation or logical reason behind it.

I assure all of you that it can happen to your family. Until then, simply show some respect by keeping your uninformed comments to yourself. Because that's what they are, comments made out of ignorance for the topic at hand (and I don't mean that in a demeaning or hostile manner).

---------------------

My father in-law was like a father to me. My own father died in a car accident when I was 20, and my FIL gladly stepped into his shoes a few years later. I loved my FIL like he was my own pops. He was always there for us, and for that matter, anybody who needed help.

The thought of him battling hidden issues, alone...it still makes me shudder. Imagine living with demons in your head for years; not telling anybody, simply because you did not want to inconvenience their lives. Selfish? No. Selfless, yes.

He was also a surfer. Surfers have a different take on it. No finger pointing, no anger, just love and respect. On their own they stepped up and did my FIL proud. I learned a great life lesson that day about humility.

Rant over, enjoy life :thumbsup :)



[video=vimeo;29234404]http://vimeo.com/29234404[/video]
 

Froggystyle

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From a technical perspective, I just checked my photometrics as well as Google earth and they jive. The take-off point, which I imagine is the one closest to the water, and imaginable to hit the water and not the rocks, is 200' even. The water is at 1510 and the rock is at 1710. The flag looks to be about 250' off the water, and the hill itself is 300' at the peak, but it is hundreds of feet back from the edge.

180' is too high to imagine survivable. You don't think you can make it at that height... The highest recorded, and by a professional diver was at 172'. Most "high" jumps are around 40-60'. I think Copper Canyon i is about 25'
 

C-2

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From a technical perspective, I just checked my photometrics as well as Google earth and they jive. The take-off point, which I imagine is the one closest to the water, and imaginable to hit the water and not the rocks, is 200' even. The water is at 1510 and the rock is at 1710. The flag looks to be about 250' off the water, and the hill itself is 300' at the peak, but it is hundreds of feet back from the edge.

180' is too high to imagine survivable. You don't think you can make it at that height... The highest recorded, and by a professional diver was at 172'. Most "high" jumps are around 40-60'. I think Copper Canyon i is about 25'

Good job :thumbsup Dang, learn something everyday.
 

Riverbound

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Suicide.

A guy races boats, cars or motorcycles for recreation and dies as a result. Yet, he's a hero. His family will now be destitute, but taht's ok because he died "doing what he loved to do."
A person who chooses to smoke, drink, or do illicit drugs and later dies of health complications or disease, and that's sad, but we're not mad at them.
Similarly, an overweight, or just plain unhealthy person refuses to get better, or get healthy, and dies as the result, and that's sad too, but hey, that's life and we never second guess the choices they could have made which might have prevented their untimely or premature death.

Yet, a person can be so fawked up in the head that they feel the only way out is to end their life, and after they do, they're an asshole? Fuck them?

It's beyond words that a person feels so lonely and is in such despair, that not even their closest loved ones, not religion or God, not even booze or drugs, nobody or nothing can help them. What kind of world must that be to live in from day to day? A pretty fuckin sad one if you ask me.

And save the melodramatics; I doubt anybody making these comments has ever had to deal with it intimately. And by that I mean an immediate family member who you love, and speak to daily. There's a different level of understanding you achieve when it's that close, and after you and other family members sit awake at night, night after night, searching your own soul for an answer that will never be found. Whole different ballgame than hearing about an estranged relative, or friend you have not seen in years, or the random person you read about in the news.

I'll readily admit that depression or mental illness is not the reason for all suicides, but it's the root cause for a large number of them.

It's easy for us to sit and cast judgment, mainly because we're not mentally ill, or suffering from depression, and we have no fucking clue about what's taking place inside a sick persons mind.

And, thank god for that.

Couldn't agree more. I have dealt with it more times than any person should ever have to.
 

Tom Brown

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200' of drop must bring the diver somewhere close to terminal velocity.
 

Froggystyle

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200' of drop must bring the diver somewhere close to terminal velocity.

It brought this guy to "terminal" velocity all right.

But... bad joke aside, for sure. You would reach V-max, as you generally wouldn't stabilize in a hard arch, and feet-first would get you as fast as you are gonna go in 200'
 

Tom Brown

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plaster dave's "thanks" makes me sad to say I'm part of this community.
 

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Lunatic Fringe

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plaster dave's "thanks" makes me sad to say I'm part of this community.

I'll stand by that statement and I would guess those who thanked it will also.
Anyone, under any duress, who forces a child to watch his suicide does not deserve my wishes to rest in peace.

I have immense sympathy for the surviving loved ones of those who have taken their lives, and yes, I do have a close connection to suicide.
What I have zero sympathy or tolerance of is someone who intentionally scars a child by subjecting them to something this horrific.
Blow me Brown.
 

Tom Brown

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Blow me Brown.

Dude, I'm in a mood that isn't good and you might be just the thing I need.

Some time ago, plaster dave threw down some pretty severe judgement on me for teasing PokerRun388.

This thread makes me sad to say I am part of this community. :thumbsdown

He had no clue of any details and yet he felt plenty comfortable judging me. Subsequently, he went on a couple of rents, both of which I left alone.

Now he comes in here and gives his thanks to a message that literally wishes this man who may have lost his battle with depression to rot in hell for eternity.

The whole deal gives me the right to judge Dave and that is happening in this post. I judge him as a bad person.

You, on the other hand, volunteered for this exchange with me, even though you weren't mentioned. You're not man enough to play. You're not smart enough, either, as evidenced by you not being distinguish between plaster dave and yourself. Run along before you get hurt.
 
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