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Salt Water hurts...

Magic34

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So my first "ocean boating" thing with keeping the boat in the water is hitting me. Cooling system is due, just got the call from my mechanic in SD. I've never really fully understood the "no salt water" when it comes to boating. I know it is corrosive but if a boat is in the salt 10-15% of the time and fresh water the remaining time, then it doesn't really matter. Keeping the boat in the salt 24/7 is different.

Cooling systems on the motors have to be rebuilt every 5-6 years, and I just hit 7. Gulp. It's simply part of the deal, but it ain't cheap. I'm going to go punch myself in the face now.
 

OCMerrill

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We are just finishing this up. Like I said in a post previous make sure the after-coolers are removed and serviced.

We also use this product every two years. http://www.maritimeexpressions.com/meultimatedescaler.html

We close the cooling system and recirculate it to clean the scale out of the heat exchangers and gear coolers. Works well and extends things a bit.

Leaving a boat in fresh water also has it's issues.
 

Magic34

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We are just finishing this up. Like I said in a post previous make sure the after-coolers are removed and serviced.

We also use this product every two years. http://www.maritimeexpressions.com/meultimatedescaler.html

We close the cooling system and recirculate it to clean the scale out of the heat exchangers and gear coolers. Works well and extends things a bit.

Leaving a boat in fresh water also has it's issues.

How do you cycle it, can you walk me through that?
 

OCMerrill

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How do you cycle it, can you walk me through that?
Use a stand alone pump, close your raw water valve, remove the hose from your raw water pump that feeds out (not the intake because you dont need this going through your impeller), and make this your pressure feed side injecting you solution there. Then remove the hose on the heat exchanger that leads to the exhaust manifold. Tap and run that back to the bucket.

Lastly your shaft seals are fed with water pressure from your system. That hose needs to be clamped or pinched off in some manner or all your descaler will run down and out the shaft seal.

You have to let it run for like 6 hrs and there is a water to descaler mix ratio. We were amazed at the results.


View attachment Maritime%u002520Express%u002520ultimate%u002520marine%u002520descaler.pdf
 

Hugh Jascaulk

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Aftercoooler service on my cummins qsm11's -7k if no problems found
 

wsuwrhr

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Salt water is best on someone elses boat, I happily pay for all the fuel and food or whatever and when the trip is over I help clean up the boat and walk up the dock to my car and leave. :)
 

OCMerrill

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Aftercoooler service on my cummins qsm11's -7k if no problems found
We learned the hard way costing a cylinder head. Salt water and intake valves....no bueno. Service every 500 hours and if you see an IAT difference between engines then investigate ASAP. I highly recommend BDMAR in Oxnard if you can get them off, they can get them ready for reinstall.


Cummins really did a shitty job with the QSB aftercooler, so much so there was a class action lawsuit that somehow we never knew about. We have spent nearly 10k in just one engine because of this. The new Aftercooler is a completely new design. So then we take the new parts to the port engine because we know what will eventually happen.
 

lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES

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Today I had Boatswain's Locker do the mechanical survey on the twin Yanmars in the boat I'm in the process of buying. Everything looked pretty good pending oil sample results. With that said I think we are going to go ahead with a full service of the cooling systems immediately after purchase as a precaution. I think I'm just gonna close my eyes and sign when I get that bill...I don't want to know lol
 

OCMerrill

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Today I had Boatswain's Locker do the mechanical survey on the twin Yanmars in the boat I'm in the process of buying. Everything looked pretty good pending oil sample results. With that said I think we are going to go ahead with a full service of the cooling systems immediately after purchase as a precaution. I think I'm just gonna close my eyes and sign when I get that bill...I don't want to know lol
I was just at Boatswains yesterday. Great people there and the only place in So Cal I can get ZF Trans stuff since they come with many of the import stuff they sell there. If it's not CAT or Cummins, they are everything else.



Congrats on your purchase. Looks like a nice all purpose boat!
 

lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES

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I was just at Boatswains yesterday. Great people there and the only place in So Cal I can get ZF Trans stuff since they come with many of the import stuff they sell there. If it's not CAT or Cummins, they are everything else.



Congrats on your purchase. Looks like a nice all purpose boat!
Yeah they are great. My Dad started having them service the Yanmar on his sailboat after he took the diesel mechanic course at OCC (run by boatswains locker) a few months ago. He was so impressed with the class that he paid the guy who taught it to come walk him through the motor in his own boat. We tried to get the same guy to do the survey on the new boat but he was booked up as they have been slammed. Nonetheless the guy who was down today was super knowledgeable and did a very thorough inspection. Pretty sure I will be having them do all the engine service on the new boat...

And thanks! Hoping to have everything finalized sometime next week. I'm pretty stoked
 

Magic34

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Today I had Boatswain's Locker do the mechanical survey on the twin Yanmars in the boat I'm in the process of buying. Everything looked pretty good pending oil sample results. With that said I think we are going to go ahead with a full service of the cooling systems immediately after purchase as a precaution. I think I'm just gonna close my eyes and sign when I get that bill...I don't want to know lol
At least for the cummins, it is about $3000 per motor. Aftercooler, heat exchanger, trans/fuel cooler. You're walking into a $6000 bill if it has the same components I do. That's pretty much the average across the country as I have read a number of threads about these things.

When was the last time it was done? If it has been 5 years since last service, you're due and looking at at least $5k-$6k. You need to consider this in your purchase. I'd try to split the difference with the seller if not get them to cover completely. Look for leaks on both ends of the 3 items on each motor. If there is any discoloring they are due.
 

Magic34

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We learned the hard way costing a cylinder head. Salt water and intake valves....no bueno. Service every 500 hours and if you see an IAT difference between engines then investigate ASAP. I highly recommend BDMAR in Oxnard if you can get them off, they can get them ready for reinstall.


Cummins really did a shitty job with the QSB aftercooler, so much so there was a class action lawsuit that somehow we never knew about. We have spent nearly 10k in just one engine because of this. The new Aftercooler is a completely new design. So then we take the new parts to the port engine because we know what will eventually happen.
I've got the QSC 8.3 500 motors. Is that the new one you speak of?
 

lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES

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At least for the cummins, it is about $3000 per motor. Aftercooler, heat exchanger, trans/fuel cooler. You're walking into a $6000 bill if it has the same components I do. That's pretty much the average across the country as I have read a number of threads about these things.

When was the last time it was done? If it has been 5 years since last service, you're due and looking at at least $5k-$6k. You need to consider this in your purchase. I'd try to split the difference with the seller if not get them to cover completely. Look for leaks on both ends of the 3 items on each motor. If there is any discoloring they are due.
The motors were installed in 2006 and supposedly some work has been done maintaining the cooling systems since. The broker is working on getting the maintenance records from the seller right now to pinpoint exactly when it was done. The mechanic took the cap off of one exchanger today and it looked decent on the inside but not brand new. Getting some cost back from the seller on this is the last remaining item to work out before doing the deal.

Also the 6k that you mentioned is about what I had figured for this. I'm stepping into a whole new ballpark with these twins lol. I once had a full rebuild done on the 302 in my old Nautique for a little north of 6k
 

Magic34

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The motors were installed in 2006 and supposedly some work has been done maintaining the cooling systems since. The broker is working on getting the maintenance records from the seller right now to pinpoint exactly when it was done. The mechanic took the cap off of one exchanger today and it looked decent on the inside but not brand new. Getting some cost back from the seller on this is the last remaining item to work out before doing the deal.

Also the 6k that you mentioned is about what I had figured for this. I'm stepping into a whole new ballpark with these twins lol. I once had a full rebuild done on the 302 in my old Nautique for a little north of 6k

You don't even want to know what a full rebuild is on these big diesels.
 

lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES

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You don't even want to know what a full rebuild is on these big diesels.
Have an Uncle with an Egg Harbor 41. Unfortunately, I know. It's all fun and games until you launch a motor...Still can't resist though. Can't take the cash with you when you go
 

lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES

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One disadvantage. Fucking bird shit Image1466907140.479146.jpg
It's been three weeks since I've cleaned the boat and this was the worst I've ever seen it. I literally spent 3 hours scrubbing shit off the covers and hosing. I didn't even take the covers off. Washing under the covers is tomorrow . Crazy thing is my dads boat is a few over and he hadn't been on his for the same amount of time and no shit anywhere...
 

lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES

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I did see my new boat sneaking back in the harbor today though. Brought my spirits up a little while covered in shit. At least that will be in a slip... Image1466907464.017542.jpg
 

OCMerrill

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I did see my new boat sneaking back in the harbor today though. Brought my spirits up a little while covered in shit. At least that will be in a slip... View attachment 494250
The owner used his boat in the process of doing a deal with you? After the Marine Survey? Don't let your lender know, unless they have already funded. :eek

Yes Birds are just prolific. Same as the sea lions / seals. Bring in the Mako and Great Whites because they are out of control.
 

lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES

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The owner used his boat in the process of doing a deal with you? After the Marine Survey? Don't let your lender know, unless they have already funded. :eek

Yes Birds are just prolific. Same as the sea lions / seals. Bring in the Mako and Great Whites because they are out of control.
There is no lender involved in the deal but I don't really see how you can prevent this without specifically requesting it as a part of the offer? There is a signed purchase agreement in place which is the standard form version from the California Yacht Brokers Association but there is no mention of using the boat during in the time until the deal goes through. I think it would have had to be a special request in writing added to the purchase agreement unless I am missing something? I see what you are saying but it's still his until the money is transferred to him from the escrow account. You can't not use your house you are selling when it's in escrow...
 

ka0tyk

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One disadvantage. Fucking bird shit View attachment 494246
It's been three weeks since I've cleaned the boat and this was the worst I've ever seen it. I literally spent 3 hours scrubbing shit off the covers and hosing. I didn't even take the covers off. Washing under the covers is tomorrow . Crazy thing is my dads boat is a few over and he hadn't been on his for the same amount of time and no shit anywhere...
lol my dad went to his boat one weekend and a seal had been jumping up on the rear deck and climbing over the railing into the rear area. seal poo, everywhere.
 

OCMerrill

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There is no lender involved in the deal but I don't really see how you can prevent this without specifically requesting it as a part of the offer? There is a signed purchase agreement in place which is the standard form version from the California Yacht Brokers Association but there is no mention of using the boat during in the time until the deal goes through. I think it would have had to be a special request in writing added to the purchase agreement unless I am missing something? I see what you are saying but it's still his until the money is transferred to him from the escrow account. You can't not use your house you are selling when it's in escrow...
You have boating experience. A signed purchase agreement with escrow funded by you? Yea if I were selling it I certainly would not run out and use it again. What if something fails and is covered up?

I don't mean to be negative but seriously.....that's pretty stupid on his part. Check the fucker over real well but even if there is an issue I don't know what you can do about it at this point. Looking out for you is all. These are ocean boats with lots of systems.
 

Magic34

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You have boating experience. A signed purchase agreement with escrow funded by you? Yea if I were selling it I certainly would not run out and use it again. What if something fails and is covered up?

I don't mean to be negative but seriously.....that's pretty stupid on his part. Check the fucker over real well but even if there is an issue I don't know what you can do about it at this point. Looking out for you is all. These are ocean boats with lots of systems.
I agree, if the cooling system is due and he's out running it, just not the smartest idea of the seller.
 

lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES

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I agree, if the cooling system is due and he's out running it, just not the smartest idea of the seller.
Well a bit of an update. The deal is moving forward and should be wrapped up by Friday. Got some recent service records and the cooling system had a full service three years ago. Also replaced one turbo in 2015 and the other in 2013. It's seems as though the service has been kept up pretty well even though the engine survey came back with a few items. Still debating whether to go ahead with a full cooling service right off the bat as an insurance policy or wait until winter...will update moving forward
 

coolchange

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Someone took the sil's company boat out last year and smoked a motor. I think it has those Chinese diesels that have an inherent issue. Haul out wwas $18000 alone. Total bill was 60k. He keeps telling me I can take it out if whenever I want. No way. I don't want to be on the hook for any of that. I'll just use it at the dock for parties or go out with family outings .
 

Magic34

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I don't think the QSC had aftercooler issues but would not hurt to check around.

BoatDiesel.com is a good forum resource.
My cooling system just came off today. It was past due and he's doing the generator now. $7000 and it isn't an upgrade... wont go faster or look any better. :grumble:
 

OCMerrill

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My cooling system just came off today. It was past due and he's doing the generator now. $7000 and it isn't an upgrade... wont go faster or look any better. :grumble:
We spent 10 Large on just one engine because of a failed after cooler.

So your goal here is just to reliably keep going. :thumbsup
 

OCMerrill

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They cool boost air using sea water. The core we found out can leak and is the case of our qsb's (cummins mercruiser) the core was Aluminum. Bad news, R&R the head to replace all intake valves.

The new coolers are a redesign and the core is copper. :thumbsup They are also $2400 each. We also eliminated the fuel coolers so we dont get salt water in the diesel fuel.

The salt is not for pussies. :grumble:

Then you have all the galvanic corrosion going on, constant zinc changing, bonding everything metal and we have a computerized bonding system and shit still pits.
 

Runs2rch

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They cool boost air using sea water. The core we found out can leak and is the case of our qsb's (cummins mercruiser) the core was Aluminum. Bad news, R&R the head to replace all intake valves.

The new coolers are a redesign and the core is copper. :thumbsup They are also $2400 each. We also eliminated the fuel coolers so we dont get salt water in the diesel fuel.

The salt is not for pussies. :grumble:

Then you have all the galvanic corrosion going on, constant zinc changing, bonding everything metal and we have a computerized bonding system and shit still pits.
Makes me pucker just thinking about it.
 

toyaddiction

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Here is what we found today.This is what happens when the old girl just sits at the dock. Gonna be expensive. IMG_3078.jpg IMG_3079.jpg IMG_3080.jpg IMG_3081.jpg IMG_3082.jpg IMG_3083.jpg IMG_3084.jpg
 

Magic34

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Well, my photos dont look so bad when next to these posted.
 

Magic34

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I'm finally back up and running. Heading out Thursday night for the wife's birthday weekend. Home for 2 days, then back again on Wednesday of next week for a long weekend.
 

Hugh Jascaulk

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The guys from Marine Diesel Services in Costa Mesa are here finishing up my cooling system service. They remove the heat exchangers, aftercoolers, tranny coolers and fuel coolers, service in the shop and return to reassemble everything. All was good, but still an expensive maintenance item, 7K. If anyone needs a great shop to service your boat, these guys do a fantastic job!!!
 

Magic34

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The guys from Marine Diesel Services in Costa Mesa are here finishing up my cooling system service. They remove the heat exchangers, aftercoolers, tranny coolers and fuel coolers, service in the shop and return to reassemble everything. All was good, but still an expensive maintenance item, 7K. If anyone needs a great shop to service your boat, these guys do a fantastic job!!!
Mine was about the same. At least it's only once every 5 years if you stay on top of the zincs. Bottom paint is next in my maintenance schedule... March.
 

lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES

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IMG_2197.jpg
IMG_2301.jpg IMG_2276.jpg IMG_2294.jpg

Back in the water after two weeks on the hard. Did new drip less shaft seals, through hulls, replaced a rusted transmission coupler on the starboard side, and a fair amount of gel touch up. Looking good now
 

machinist68

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Use a stand alone pump, close your raw water valve, remove the hose from your raw water pump that feeds out (not the intake because you dont need this going through your impeller), and make this your pressure feed side injecting you solution there. Then remove the hose on the heat exchanger that leads to the exhaust manifold. Tap and run that back to the bucket.

Lastly your shaft seals are fed with water pressure from your system. That hose needs to be clamped or pinched off in some manner or all your descaler will run down and out the shaft seal.

You have to let it run for like 6 hrs and there is a water to descaler mix ratio. We were amazed at the results.


View attachment 493707
Thanks for that info, you made it stupid proof with the diagram! :readpb:
 

Grease Monkey

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The guys from Marine Diesel Services in Costa Mesa are here finishing up my cooling system service. They remove the heat exchangers, aftercoolers, tranny coolers and fuel coolers, service in the shop and return to reassemble everything. All was good, but still an expensive maintenance item, 7K. If anyone needs a great shop to service your boat, these guys do a fantastic job!!!
Nice to see we've already made an impression here on RDP.

Thanks!
Erik
 

RiverDave

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Salt water is best on someone elses boat, I happily pay for all the fuel and food or whatever and when the trip is over I help clean up the boat and walk up the dock to my car and leave. :)
Not sure you have seen some of the fuel bills some of these guys are talking about.. LOL I went with Lee on the 43 Schiada one time and we stopped somewhere in Long Beach on the water to fill it up. They dropped the fuel hose in the side of it and just walked away. I was thinking.. "Hhhhmmmm" That thing pumped I swear for a good 15-20 minutes? It's a whole different league when your daily fill up involves a comma in the price tag.

One disadvantage. Fucking bird shit View attachment 494246
It's been three weeks since I've cleaned the boat and this was the worst I've ever seen it. I literally spent 3 hours scrubbing shit off the covers and hosing. I didn't even take the covers off. Washing under the covers is tomorrow . Crazy thing is my dads boat is a few over and he hadn't been on his for the same amount of time and no shit anywhere...
What about some kind of deterrent? Like a fake owl? Or ??

RD
 

wsuwrhr

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Um, I don't know how many times you've played with a moored ocean boat, I still think the fuel is the cheapest part.

Brian

Not sure you have seen some of the fuel bills some of these guys are talking about.. LOL I went with Lee on the 43 Schiada one time and we stopped somewhere in Long Beach on the water to fill it up. They dropped the fuel hose in the side of it and just walked away. I was thinking.. "Hhhhmmmm" That thing pumped I swear for a good 15-20 minutes? It's a whole different league when your daily fill up involves a comma in the price tag.



RD
 

rvrrun

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During my college years, we spent the summers at marine stadium with my jet boat. I replaced the stringers, decking, interior and all rigging as well as going through the engine and pump. It was a fun couple of summers, but I wouldn't do it again.
 

lbhsbz

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Um, I don't know how many times you've played with a moored ocean boat, I still think the fuel is the cheapest part.

Brian
There is no "cheapest part" in the salt. Every time I think about getting an ocean boat, I go out on a buddy's boat and watch as he spends half of what I take home in a month to run the boat for the weekend. Fuck that.

I'm perfectly happy spending $20 on a new waterpump impeller along with a couple quarts of gear oil to get me through the summer along with 30 or so gallons of fuel per weekend.
 
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