SBC build

[Husqy510]

Just picked up this 65 El Camino and I want to see if I can squeeze a little more power out of it. Eventually I'd like to build a 350 with a 671 sticking through the hood, but for now I'd like to make the most of this motor.

I popped off a valve cover and it has some decent steel heads (3782461). It also has stamped steel rocker arms with roller tips. Other than that it has some stock exhaust manifolds, a summit dual-plane intake and an Edelbrock 650 carburetor.

The first thing I did today was verify TDC. Then I put a timing light on it and it seemed to have about 10 degrees initial and then went up to 36 as I revved the motor, but that's where it got odd. As I added revs, the timing kept climbing to nearly 50 degrees advance. I've included a picture of the distributor, as it looks like an old points distributor that's been upgraded.

My plan is to sort out the timing and AFR, upgrade the exhaust to some long tubes with 3" pipes and see how she runs then.

Do you guys have any ideas on the timing?

 

[rivermobster]

Check it without the vac advance hooked up...

It would be nice to have about 35/6 degrees total with about 15ish @ idle.

Leave the vac advance disconnected after that.

Nice looking El Co! Dig the rally wheels. :thumbup:

 

[Husqy510]

Check it without the vac advance hooked up...

It would be nice to have about 35/6 degrees total with about 15ish @ idle.

Leave the vac advance disconnected after that.

Nice looking El Co! Dig the rally wheels. :thumbup:

Thanks, I'll give that a shot with the timing

 

[mash on it]

It sounds like the vacuum advance is doing exactly what it was designed to do. Under part throttle cruise, which is high manifold vacuum, the spark lead advances. This is mainly for efficiency on the highway.

Unless you are smitten with the Eddy carb, I would run a 650 Holley double pumper. Most of the aluminum intakes are modeled after the Z-28 intake, and should be fine, unless it is a Q-jet only pattern. A one inch spacer under the carb helps in the upper rpm.

Headers would help it come alive too.
The L-79 cam with 1.6 rockers is a nice combo for that 'lil 327.

Remember, a huffer will work great on that 327, it already had a forged crank, and a good chance of forged pistons, something not nearly as common in a 350.

If it still has the stamped numbers of the pass. side front deck surface, it's possible to tell what flavor 327 it started out as. Casting numbers on the driver side bellhousing flange will tell somewhat of an origin too.

Hope this helps.
Dan'l

 

[Husqy510]

This is all great advice. I pulled the vacuum line and capped the ports. It had 16 at idle and about 35 at 2600.

The car does drive great on the freeway, turns about 2500 at 60 and is super smooth, so I guess the vacuum advance does work. I really could care less about fuel economy, so I'll look at adding a 650dp.

 

[Husqy510]

While checking timing I determined one of the spark plugs boots wasn't all the way seated, which explains the intermittent miss. Fixed that and took her for a spin and she's running great, but I think there's still some more power in there that needs to be unlocked.

I also checked the numbers on the front of the block, and it's a 350 from a 73 3/4 ton pick-up. The good news is it's most likely a 4 bolt, the bummer is it's not some hipo 327. I picked up a scope from my brother so my next step is to take a look at the cylinders and pistons, along with the lifter valley. I'm also going to order the exhaust.

 

[mash on it]

Good find- run a compression check too, see if it's healthy.

I have the same heads (461's) on my 327. They don't have hardened seats for unleaded gas tho. I ran across a set of 113 aluminum zz4 heads, when I get ambitious.

Definitely a cool project.

Dan'l

 

[Husqy510]

I put a scope in one of the spark plugs holes and the Pistons are flat tops with what looks like 4 valve reliefs. The picture is pretty bad, but it definitely has at least two reliefs and the cross hatching on the cylinder looks fresh.

My next step will be to measure the valve lift. I may also throw on a 750dp I have lying around. I'm sure it's too much carb, but it won't cost anything but my time to try it. I don't really want to but a 650dp, as I'm going to need two blower carbs when I add the blower.

 

[Husqy510]

I'm sitting here watching Willy Wonka with my two small kids thinking about potential engine builds. My ultimate goal is a blown small block, but that may be a ways off so I'm wondering how much time and money I should spend on the current motor.

It seems like I have a somewhat fresh longblock with flat top pistons and decent iron heads. I'm guessing it's got between 9-10:1 compression. I'm definitely installing a nice exhaust with long tube headers, 3" exhaust with straight thru mufflers. What would you do from here?

Leave it alone? Add a cam and Holley 650dp? Should I upgrade to a hydraulic roller cam? Roller cam will be expensive by the time I update the springs and push rods, but I worry about flatting a lobe on a flat tappet cam.

If this was your car what would you do?

 

[rivermobster]

I'm sitting here watching Willy Wonka with my two small kids thinking about potential engine builds. My ultimate goal is a blown small block, but that may be a ways off so I'm wondering how much time and money I should spend on the current motor.

It seems like I have a somewhat fresh longblock with flat top pistons and decent iron heads. I'm guessing it's got between 9-10:1 compression. I'm definitely installing a nice exhaust with long tube headers, 3" exhaust with straight thru mufflers. What would you do from here?

Leave it alone? Add a cam and Holley 650dp? Should I upgrade to a hydraulic roller cam? Roller cam will be expensive by the time I update the springs and push rods, but I worry about flatting a lobe on a flat tappet cam.

If this was your car what would you do?

Wise man once said...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

How's the suspension? How's the trans? What gears are in the rear end?

These are the things you Should be looking at if the driveability is good.

 

[obnoxious001]

It seems like I have a somewhat fresh longblock with flat top pistons and decent iron heads. I'm guessing it's got between 9-10:1 compression. I'm definitely installing a nice exhaust with long tube headers, 3" exhaust with straight thru mufflers. What would you do from here?

Leave it alone? Add a cam and Holley 650dp? Should I upgrade to a hydraulic roller cam? Roller cam will be expensive by the time I update the springs and push rods, but I worry about flatting a lobe on a flat tappet cam.

If this was your car what would you do?

Run a compression test? Cranking compression might indicate the compression ratio. What casting number heads? That will help as well, the various small block heads will make quite a difference.

I put flat tappet cams in lots of boat engines, zero failures. I do preach pretty strongly about what oil they need to run.

What would Willy Wonka do?

 

[mash on it]

With a typical 2 valve relief dished factory style replacement piston, and 76 cc heads, compression ratio would be at 8.5:1, and 64 cc heads (like your 461 castings) at 9.6:1, not accounting for deck surface height, or head surface height (milling) or any chamber work. But should be in the ballpark. A pretty decent starting point.

If there is any dome, all bets are off.

Roller once is still cheaper than flat tappet twice.

With so many Sbc 350 combos out there, find a recipe that suits you. 355 hp is pretty easy, and goes up from there. The ct 400 is a zz4 cam and fast burn heads, and is a pretty stout combo.

Dan'l

 

[Husqy510]

All good questions. This car is very solid. New suspension, pInt, upholstery, e

Wise man once said...

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

How's the suspension? How's the trans? What gears are in the rear end?

These are the things you Should be looking at if the driveability is good.

The rest of the car is pretty darn good. It has a Muncie and pretty much all the suspension and steering are new. Paint and bright work are really nice. Interior is new and everything works. Rearend is stock ten bolt out of a 6cylinder car so it has 343's I believe.

What it needs is a little rust repair in the smugglers box and lower cowl, but that shouldn't affect the paint and I've ordered all the parts. I'm also upgrading the exhaust and I'd like to add coilovers at all four corners.

The motor has flat top pistons, no dish. It has the 461 heads and I'm not sure if there's been any work done to them. She seems to run pretty good but it's hard to tell because my last car was pretty fast.

 

[rivermobster]

All good questions. This car is very solid. New suspension, pInt, upholstery, e

The rest of the car is pretty darn good. It has a Muncie and pretty much all the suspension and steering are new. Paint and bright work are really nice. Interior is new and everything works. Rearend is stock ten bolt out of a 6cylinder car so it has 343's I believe.

What it needs is a little rust repair in the smugglers box and lower cowl, but that shouldn't affect the paint and I've ordered all the parts. I'm also upgrading the exhaust and I'd like to add coilovers at all four corners.

The motor has flat top pistons, no dish. It has the 461 heads and I'm not sure if there's been any work done to them. She seems to run pretty good but it's hard to tell because my last car was pretty fast.

Nice. Does it have power disc brakes yet?

Dakota Digital dash?

One wire alternator and all the wiring uograded/replaced?

 

[Husqy510]

Nice. Does it have power disc brakes yet?

Dakota Digital dash?

One wire alternator and all the wiring uograded/replaced?

Yes it has power disc brakes and the one wire alternator.

The dash and wiring is stock, except for an old school tach on the column and 3 chrome gauges under the dash. All the factory gauges lights and switches work. I plan to keep it old school.

 

[rivermobster]

Yes it has power disc brakes and the one wire alternator.

The dash and wiring is stock, except for an old school tach on the column and 3 chrome gauges under the dash. All the factory gauges lights and switches work. I plan to keep it old school.

Man you scored. Sounds like a well built car!

Leave it alone and build a whole new blower motor from scratch then...

 

[Husqy510]

Here's the interior

 

[Husqy510]

Thanks for all the great feedback guys. I think I'm going tune this thing up the best I can, without wasting a bunch of money, focusing on things I can use on the next motor.

I'm leaning towards all new exhaust with long tube headers and straight thru 3" exhaust. Next will be a Mishimoto dual 12" electric radiator fan shroud. Lastly a 650dp. I'll hopefully be able to tune it to perfection with my wide band AFR gauge.

I'd also like to add a limited slip to the existing rearend, as I think 343 gears will be perfect.