WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

Schiada Gearing

BassLakeCruiser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
240
Reaction score
167
What’s the general rule of thumb for gears vs HP on a 21? I know there’s many, many variables but if somebody was upgrading their motor package or planning to it may be interesting to know where to start. Could get somebody close then dial in a prop for a few 100rpm whatever direction they need it.

something like this would be handy...
400hp-18s
600hp-25s
800hp-29s
1000hp-30ish?
1200hp-???

Am I close?
 

jmeads

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
277
Reaction score
110
What’s the general rule of thumb for gears vs HP on a 21? I know there’s many, many variables but if somebody was upgrading their motor package or planning to it may be interesting to know where to start. Could get somebody close then dial in a prop for a few 100rpm whatever direction they need it.

something like this would be handy...
400hp-18s
600hp-25s
800hp-29s
1000hp-30ish?
1200hp-???

Am I close?
1100 hp can pull a 43. then go up from there.
 

sintax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
3,025
Reaction score
3,574
I was always told, prop first, then tune with gears.

You are right though, theres lots to consider when doing this.
 

lenmann

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
858
Reaction score
1,069
Stan told me that my 1100 hp TT with modern rigging should run a 43-48 gear set. I am guessing the right prop is an important part of which one of the three gear sets that fall in this range works best. My understanding is that it's an iterative process of tweaking the prop, its location relative to the hull/strut, and the gear ratio.

That said, you have to start somewhere, right? So Casale is putting together a billet v-drive with 45 gears for me.

I still don't know what prop I am going to run. Joey Grose built my motor and he and his dad, Ron, make a pretty damn nice prop CNC machined form a steel forging. It's a nice piece, but spendy at $5k +. Still not sure what I am going to do prop wise...
 

jmeads

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
277
Reaction score
110
Stan told me that my 1100 hp TT with modern rigging should run a 43-48 gear set. I am guessing the right prop is an important part of which one of the three gear sets that fall in this range works best. My understanding is that it's an iterative process of tweaking the prop, its location relative to the hull/strut, and the gear ratio.

That said, you have to start somewhere, right? So Casale is putting together a billet v-drive with 45 gears for me.

I still don't know what prop I am going to run. Joey Grose built my motor and he and his dad, Ron, make a pretty damn nice prop CNC machined form a steel forging. It's a nice piece, but spendy at $5k +. Still not sure what I am going to do prop wise...

Get a new 2 blade. 11 - 1/2 x 16 from Bergeron ( Dallas ) or the fellow in Clovis that bought Harold's business. BTW- Harold perfected all of the cruiser props that everyone copied. I saw a Facebook post that his props are around $850. His name is Nolte Emerzian
 

farmo83

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
1,447
Reaction score
917
Do all the cruiser's run 2 blades or some run 3 blades? I've heard 2 blades vibrate a lot. Not trying to hijack anything.
 

welldigger00

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
2,576
Reaction score
3,686
I run both on my rig. On arrowhead I run the three blade exclusively. It’s a 35 mph lake. The three blade is nice for pulling a skier, and cruising under 3500 rpms, that kind of thing. I run the two blade on Parker or mead, where I’m going to sustain 3500 and up rpms, and haul booty. The three blade gives a ton of transom lift for my rig, and it’ll get a little bow steer, and weird shit going on as a result of having to run more plate, as a result of wanting to porpoise, as a result of late 80’s rigging and setup, with way to much power from how the boat was intended to be used when built. I recommend having both props, and run the one that suits the type of boating you’re gonna do for the trip. Just don’t run a three blade at any big speed, power, etc. bad stories come from doing that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

BassLakeCruiser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
240
Reaction score
167
Get a new 2 blade. 11 - 1/2 x 16 from Bergeron ( Dallas ) or the fellow in Clovis that bought Harold's business. BTW- Harold perfected all of the cruiser props that everyone copied. I saw a Facebook post that his props are around $850. His name is Nolte Emerzian
I see him around. He’s building rudders too. And toying around with the 19 mold.
 

BassLakeCruiser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
240
Reaction score
167
Get a new 2 blade. 11 - 1/2 x 16 from Bergeron ( Dallas ) or the fellow in Clovis that bought Harold's business. BTW- Harold perfected all of the cruiser props that everyone copied. I saw a Facebook post that his props are around $850. His name is Nolte Emerzian
Are you up near the delta?
 

BassLakeCruiser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
240
Reaction score
167
Do all the cruiser's run 2 blades or some run 3 blades? I've heard 2 blades vibrate a lot. Not trying to hijack anything.
I entertained the idea of putting my 2 blade race prop on from my Hondo. Die checked and found a crack. No telling how long it had been there but I check them regularly.

I’m a low hp guy so Idk if I’d see as much improvement as others.
 

sintax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
3,025
Reaction score
3,574
Get a new 2 blade. 11 - 1/2 x 16 from Bergeron ( Dallas ) or the fellow in Clovis that bought Harold's business. BTW- Harold perfected all of the cruiser props that everyone copied. I saw a Facebook post that his props are around $850. His name is Nolte Emerzian
I chatted with him a while back re: some props and rudders. He seems like a nice enough guy and said Harold prepped him on a lot of things and even got him into aviation.
 

BassLakeCruiser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
240
Reaction score
167
I was, lived about 45 minutes from the delta. After 58 years living in Cali I had to leave. Could not take the stupidity any longer!
I think I bought a white dolly trailer from you about 5 years ago?
 

obnoxious001

Engine building character
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
5,498
Reaction score
2,039
Prop needs to be right for a Schiada to work properly. Too much prop lift and the boat is very difficult to drive due to bow steer. You may think I am just some engine character, but I have driven a number of Schiadas at high speeds, both with and without skiers. One time I was driving my friend's 21' at Elsinore for a training run. This is a boat I had previously driven over 100 mph with a skier. On that particular day the "spare" prop was on since the good one was out being either fixed or replaced. In the upper 80's that boat was zero fun to drive that day.

A lot of the ski race boats run gears up into the mid 50's. My 20' ran a 37 gear with an approximately 800 hp blown engine. When I stepped up to turbo, I put a 43 gear in the boat and ended up changing that out to a 45 (wanted a 48, could not find a used set at the time). Best prop was an 11 1/2 x 15 Kindsvater 2 blade.

We tested one of the early Grose props on Joe Mitchell's "Coin Toss" Hallett Vector. He and I had previously tested several other props, when we ran the Grose after one time putting it on plane and running up to speed we looked at each other and smiled, it was extremely smooth. That boat dynoed about 1050 hp on pump gas with an engine I built, and I believe had 55 gears in it.
 

025

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
799
Reaction score
135
Mine is 1050hp, 50 gears with a 7.5* strut, Grose 11.5" x 16 2 blade, motor at 23", 2 seater, This combo works good
 

obnoxious001

Engine building character
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
5,498
Reaction score
2,039
Mine is 1050hp, 50 gears with a 7.5* strut, Grose 11.5" x 16 2 blade, motor at 23", 2 seater, This combo works good
How's that engine holding up? Russ told me today you were going to make up some of the direct drive alternator kits, those should sell well.
 

025

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
799
Reaction score
135
How's that engine holding up? Russ told me today you were going to make up some of the direct drive alternator kits, those should sell well.
I was out in parker a couple weeks ago. Legged it out pretty good for a couple days and your motor ran flawless.

I ran a batch of direct drive alternator kits that should be back from polishers next week. They've been pretty hard to find but not anymore. Ill have them in stock if anyone needs them
 

sintax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
3,025
Reaction score
3,574
I was out in parker a couple weeks ago. Legged it out pretty good for a couple days and your motor ran flawless.

I ran a batch of direct drive alternator kits that should be back from polishers next week. They've been pretty hard to find but not anymore. Ill have them in stock if anyone needs them
Any pics of the kit? Does it use a mini?
 

obnoxious001

Engine building character
Joined
Dec 28, 2007
Messages
5,498
Reaction score
2,039
I was out in parker a couple weeks ago. Legged it out pretty good for a couple days and your motor ran flawless.

I ran a batch of direct drive alternator kits that should be back from polishers next week. They've been pretty hard to find but not anymore. Ill have them in stock if anyone needs them
Why didn't you get in touch and give me a ride? Always fun to see something I built run well!

My friend built up one or more of the kits putting his jet boat engine together. I borrowed some pieces for him to copy. We are taking his little jet boat engine to dyno next month.
 

Blownbillybob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
296
Reaction score
250
We tested one of the early Grose props on Joe Mitchell's "Coin Toss" Hallett Vector. He and I had previously tested several other props, when we ran the Grose after one time putting it on plane and running up to speed we looked at each other and smiled, it was extremely smooth. That boat dynoed about 1050 hp on pump gas with an engine I built, and I believe had 55 gears in it.
My friend that now owns Coin Toss was telling me the same story about the props!!!
He gave me a bunch of numbers from that boat to help with my new set up on my vector!!
 

Groper

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,673
Reaction score
1,071
It does not use a mini. Mid plates are at polishers so I can't take any pics. Here is a pic of love joys along with stand offs. Plate is same as mounted pic
Interested
 

025

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
799
Reaction score
135
Why didn't you get in touch and give me a ride? Always fun to see something I built run well!

My friend built up one or more of the kits putting his jet boat engine together. I borrowed some pieces for him to copy. We are taking his little jet boat engine to dyno next month.
Sorry, about that. I thought of calling you but we were out with friends and didn't find anytime I could break away. Ill let you know next time
 

farmo83

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
1,447
Reaction score
917
Definitely. That makes a big difference
I guess Lee sets the strut angle based on how you want the boat configured ?

Also I would assume the shallower the angle the faster the boat will run ?
 

AZLineman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
746
Reaction score
238
Get a new 2 blade. 11 - 1/2 x 16 from Bergeron ( Dallas ) or the fellow in Clovis that bought Harold's business. BTW- Harold perfected all of the cruiser props that everyone copied. I saw a Facebook post that his props are around $850. His name is Nolte Emerzian
I thought Kevin in Henderson (R&R) took over Harolds operation? Do you have a number for Nolte?
 

AZLineman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
746
Reaction score
238
The “Schiada” prop (2 plade) that Dallas makes is pretty damn good. A couple well known peeps that sell and supply props get them from him. Sometimes its way easier to let one of them deal with him. I kno i need more gear but am waiting till i can afford a billet case. I run a 37 with 1500ish and my accelleration is blistering until i bump the rev limiter. Dallas made me a fat ear 3 blade that is heavy AF but it works great and i have been using for 6 ish yrs. i recently had Joe Shelfo test and fine tune it a bit more. Its 11-3/4x16.5
I run Harolds 2 blade for top end but run short on gear quick. I plan on a new 2 blade from Dallas via Joe this yr. prob go with 11-3/4x17. The “Schiada” prop from Dallas is pics below.
 

Attachments

sintax

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
3,025
Reaction score
3,574
I thought Kevin in Henderson (R&R) took over Harolds operation? Do you have a number for Nolte?
Nolte - NME Boats
+1 (559) 301-2036

I’ve chatted with him a bit. He’s doing 2 and 3 blades, along with wedge rudders. He mentioned he’s building his own rudders now, and also has what’s left from the barber welding stock of rudders.

he mentioned haven’t a book of notes on setups from Harold.
 

jmeads

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
277
Reaction score
110
I thought Kevin in Henderson (R&R) took over Harolds operation? Do you have a number for Nolte?
Nolte lives in Clovis CA and that is where Harold lives. Its my understanding that he bought Harold business. Tools and prop templates and Harold agreed to mentor him on how to build props. Goto his personal face book page to see more . Thanks
 

lenmann

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
858
Reaction score
1,069
I'm rigging mine right now at 6°. I have allot of thought into the setup/balance and can say it barley fits. Will it make a difference ,maybe.
Holy crap, 6 degrees, which side of the toe board does the v-drive end up on?!? (kidding of course, sorta...)

Can you share a little more about what you are thinking here and what the relatively flat strut angle will do?
 

BassLakeCruiser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2017
Messages
240
Reaction score
167
I shared my set up about 15 or so posts up. Strut angle is one part of the equation, motor placement and prop to transom distance creates balance and is alot too for over all attitude of the boat. etc
You’re right. My mistake.
 

motormonkey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
338
Reaction score
177
Holy crap, 6 degrees, which side of the toe board does the v-drive end up on?!? (kidding of course, sorta...)

Can you share a little more about what you are thinking here and what the relatively flat strut angle will do?
If I have to change gears, I'm going thru the bow. LOL.
There's not much to share and really don't want to throw numbers out there as I have not run it yet. It could be a torpedo, but I'm positive it's good. This setup isn't for everybody.
Your boat is turning out amazing.
 
Top