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School Me On Generator Power

Desert Whaler

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So last time I camped, I used my Honda eu2200i to run / charge a few things.
A couple electrical devices wouldn't charge . . . tried different plugs/ chords etc. for nothing.
Got home and the same gear worked 100% in the wall outlet.
it's not a big deal, the 'important' stuff worked fine. . . just curious if I'm missing something ?
I see there's a ground port on the Honda, but I've never had to use it in the past for anything.
Thanks in advance.
 

hallett21

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We’re the breakers tripped on the generator?


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Desert Whaler

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We’re the breakers tripped on the generator?


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No, the breaker wasn't tripped . . . I reset it just to double check.
Weird, the battery charger for the boat worked fine, lights, radio etc. no problem.
The problem was with small chargers, like camera battery chargers, cell phone chargers etc.
 

hallett21

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No, the breaker wasn't tripped . . . I reset it just to double check.
Weird, the battery charger for the boat worked fine, lights, radio etc. no problem.
The problem was with small chargers, like camera battery chargers, cell phone chargers etc.
How about like a power tool battery charger?


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Taboma

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No, the breaker wasn't tripped . . . I reset it just to double check.
Weird, the battery charger for the boat worked fine, lights, radio etc. no problem.
The problem was with small chargers, like camera battery chargers, cell phone chargers etc.
That's interesting. I've used my Honda EU2200I to power various things around my house during outages without any problems. TV's, Refrigerator, Microwave, Desktop computer and monitor, modem, but I must admit I've not tried any small battery chargers.
 

Ballsdeep

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Also known as an Edison Plug... you can make one on the cheap.
 

Taboma

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Inverter gensets have a floating (neutral or ground?) that causes problems with certain devices.

So it bonds the neutral to the ground.
Interesting, I suppose ignorance is bliss, since I've used my Honda EU2200I to power most every 120V appliance in my house during various outages, including GFCIs -- and not experienced any problems.
The vast majority being only two wire plugs certainly don't care and the few with 3 wire, haven't had issues with the floating neutral anyway., certainly my microwave hasn't or refrigerator, or desktop computer and montior. All my small chargers are only two wire anyway.

Is this an RV thing ?
 

Taboma

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Taboma

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Also known as an Edison Plug... you can make one on the cheap.
Used to be an Edison Plug, just mean three wire (With ground prong) --- now it means one that's got the neutral and ground jumpered ?
Geeze terminology used to be far more simple. 😁
 

Taboma

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Inverter gensets have a floating (neutral or ground?) that causes problems with certain devices.
Honda is certainly inverter, certainly floating neutral, seems like more of an RV issue with surge protection ? I've so far not found a 120V item or electronics, I haven't been able to power using that small Honda --- and out of curiosity, I even tested it with GFCI receptacles feeding it both directions with no issues (And that's all I'm going to write about that -- Read Test Only )
I don't have a RV, so I don't hang on those forums, but when I just googled the bonding plug and floating neutral, there does seem to be a lot of discussion on the RV forums regarding the topic.

Anyway, thanks I learned something. 👍
 

Desert Whaler

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Yeah, thanks everyone very much.
FYI, I was just truck camping, and had the generator on a small concrete pad.
I always run a heavy duty and short, 3 prong'd extension chord, same one I use for my tile saw which pulls a lot of current.
Thanks again. 👍
 

rrrr

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Jesse Hockett was an up and coming sprint and midget driver in USAC sanctioned races.

In 2010, he was electrocuted while working on the generator in his all aluminum car hauler. The generator had a floating neutral, and he was attempting to ground it to the trailer body when tragedy struck.

I didn't know Jesse or anyone in his circle, so I don't know the exact details of his death. I do know that unbonded neutrals pose a real threat to the unsuspecting.

If you think this situation exists in your installation, find and digest all of the information you can find online, and if that doesn't provide answers, go to a large full service RV dealer and get some advice.

 
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Uncle Dave

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So it bonds the neutral to the ground.
Interesting, I suppose ignorance is bliss, since I've used my Honda EU2200I to power most every 120V appliance in my house during various outages, including GFCIs -- and not experienced any problems.
The vast majority being only two wire plugs certainly don't care and the few with 3 wire, haven't had issues with the floating neutral anyway., certainly my microwave hasn't or refrigerator, or desktop computer and montior. All my small chargers are only two wire anyway.

Is this an RV thing ?
Its an RV thing and a home furnace thing, and the occasional electronics piece.
Ive had a set of 2k's for well over a decade and they power 98% of everything I plug them into - when they dont - I use one of these and it works.
 
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185EZ

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I have a 7kw genset on the rv but I don't want to run it just to charge my batteries so I bought a cheap generator and keep it in the trailer
If you plug your camper into a pedestal or a generator use a good surge protector
It monitors everything and will cut power if something isn't right
That's how i found out i needed a bonding plug on the portable generator
image0000011 (3).jpg
 

Ballsdeep

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So last time I camped, I used my Honda eu2200i to run / charge a few things.
A couple electrical devices wouldn't charge . . . tried different plugs/ chords etc. for nothing.
Got home and the same gear worked 100% in the wall outlet.
it's not a big deal, the 'important' stuff worked fine. . . just curious if I'm missing something ?
I see there's a ground port on the Honda, but I've never had to use it in the past for anything.
Thanks in advance.
I had the same thing happen when I bought my Harbor Freight Egobooster... I bought it, brought it home, plugged my motorhome into it and nothing happened. I thought I bought a bad generator and was about to return it. I did a little research and made a grounding plug and the generator has worked fine and charges my coach and runs everything that's plugged into it.
 

Taboma

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Its an RV thing and a home furnace thing, and the occasional electronics piece.
Ive had a set of 2k's for well over a decade and they power 98% of everything I plug them into - when they dont - I use one of these and it works.
Good to know, got a few cord plugs in the bin, I'll wire one up with a jumper, just in case I find something that needs to see ground and neutral continuity. 👍
 

WhatExit?

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I have a 7kw genset on the rv but I don't want to run it just to charge my batteries so I bought a cheap generator and keep it in the trailer
If you plug your camper into a pedestal or a generator use a good surge protector
It monitors everything and will cut power if something isn't right
That's how i found out i needed a bonding plug on the portable generator
View attachment 994384
Did you consider a built-in unit instead of a plug-in that someone could steal? I'm trying to determine what's best for my 5th wheel (I "only" have a 5.5 kW generator).
 

185EZ

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Did you consider a built-in unit instead of a plug-in that someone could steal? I'm trying to determine what's best for my 5th wheel (I "only" have a 5.5 kW generator).
They have a ring to put a lock on it. You can see it in my picture and i use it to hang it on the side of the house
I like the portable since i used it on my previous rv and I didn't have to buy another one.
I guess it's not difficult to wire it in but I liked the plug n play
image0000011 (3).jpg
 

Taboma

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Sometimes the eco throttle wont recognize a phone charger plugged into it. Eco throttle needs to be turned off.
Now that makes perfect sense, I never use ECO when running it at home because I'd rather burn gas than have any low-voltage delay when my frig wants to start.
👍 👍
 

Uncle Dave

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Sometimes the eco throttle wont recognize a phone charger plugged into it. Eco throttle needs to be turned off.
Iv never seen a phone charger with enough load to pull it up from idle with eco on.

Eco on idle is at least a couple hundred watts (I think 400)

Taboma yeah- plugged into a fridge for sure.
 

Your ad here

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Iv never seen a phone charger with enough load to pull it up from idle with eco on.

Eco on idle is at least a couple hundred watts (I think 400)

Taboma yeah- plugged into a fridge for sure.
You shouldn't run anything when it's in eco mode. Eco mode slows the engine down which lowers the voltage and hertz. My generator eco's down to 100 volts and probably 50hz. It still is power but not the correct power and will ruin whatever electric devices are running off it. Voltage and hertz is based upon engine speed for the most part.
 

Uncle Dave

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You shouldn't run anything when it's in eco mode. Eco mode slows the engine down which lowers the voltage and hertz. My generator eco's down to 100 volts and probably 50hz. It still is power but not the correct power and will ruin whatever electric devices are running off it. Voltage and hertz is based upon engine speed for the most part.
Using a fixed speed 3600 RPM genset on eco - agreed. " Eco" on a fixed speed Genny is idle only.

Inverter generators like a honda 2K/2200 don't work like that.

They have multipole electrical heads that recreate proper voltage and frequency from a variety of engine speeds.
 

Taboma

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Using a fixed speed 3600 RPM genset on eco - agreed. " Eco" on a fixed speed Genny is idle only.

Inverter generators like a honda 2K/2200 don't work like that.

They have multipole electrical heads that recreate proper voltage and frequency from a variety of engine speeds.
The initial AC generation of an Inverter Generator is 3 phase, producing up to 20 KHZ depending on engine speed, then rectified to DC, then inverted back to single phase AC with a pure sine wave.
This article from Offgrid Ham is very good --- https://offgridham.com/2016/09/what-you-need-to-know-about-inverter-generators/
as is the following PDF from ARRL QST Magazine ---- http://www.arrl.org/files/file/QST Binaries/QS0608Kleinschmidt.pdf

Inverter-1.JPG


Inverter -2.JPG
 

Uncle Dave

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I looked at my hondas and yamaha 3K on a fluke scope and both were really clean.

good article
 

pronstar

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Is there a way to clean-up the power on a non-inverter generator?


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Uncle Dave

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Is there a way to clean-up the power on a non-inverter generator?


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You can try a line conditioner, but you'll be spending some money for a good one.

Most stuff today is pretty tolerant until you start getting square waves like modified sine wave inverters put out.
 

rrrr

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You can try a line conditioner, but you'll be spending some money for a good one.

Most stuff today is pretty tolerant until you start getting square waves like modified sine wave inverters put out.
Those choppers put out some rough power.

:cool:
 

DILLIGAF

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This is what I use for protection on my 5th wheel. I like the flexibility of the portable one. If you arent getting good power from the pole it wont allow to flow to the trailer. This is also the case if there is an open ground which happens more frequent than you might think



 

C08H18

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Gotta love RDP. The only place you'll find inmates hooking up an oscope, rewiring plugs, and designing locks for a damn 2KW generator. CARRY ON!
 
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