School Me, Why All The Tesla Haters?

[DRYHEAT]

Also not a hater...

I thought I had seen something about Tesla coming out with a pick up truck, don’t know if they ever did.
I would think with a full size pick up truck they could hide enough batteries on it to give the thing some decent range, I don’t know maybe the big three are working on it.

If Tesla does build a truck I would at least hope it looks like a truck and not some futuristic Jetsons type deal.

 

[Havasu blue label]

Drive from the gay bay to socal let's see the response son live in Walnut Creek does not car for the car so he drives his m6 BMW to mountain view to the city google compound

 

[Havasu blue label]

No more blue label tonight

 

[was thatguy]

I view Tesla haters about the same way as the guys who claimed emission standards and EFI were the end of the muscle car...

Hmmm... Must be guys from your support group?
Just kidding, I’m sure they all drive hybrid Prius’s...

 

[was thatguy]

Drive from the gay bay to socal let's see the response son live in Walnut Creek does not car for the car so he drives his m6 BMW to mountain view to the city google compound

 

[Flynryan]

I have a 3 and love it. I dont care about it being "green". Its fast, gets 310 miles on full charge and I dont have to go to the gas station anymore.

 

[78Southwind]

I don't own a Tesla but I am all in on an American company building vehicles. Well, I also like Torque...and Tesla is all about it.

 

[Dan Lorenze]

Not a hater,Model S will likely be my next car.

 

[Keymyster]

AOC says they are bad for the planet. So I'm not getting one.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Nope
A gas fired plant will run circles around a coal plant and is much cheaper on the operations and maintenance side.
On the capital build coal is way off the spread sheet and yes you need to get rid of the ash. Lots of ash.

I have ridden in a couple of the S models and they are very nice cars. Fast and rock solid.

In many parts of the country, coal is still a predominant energy source. Maybe not California... and by far it is the most wide spread base generation fuel. I know natural gas passed coal a few years ago as the fossil fuel leader, but many of those natural gas plants don't run 24 hours a day.

Or, in other words, all that off peak cheap power is coming out of coal plants.

 

[TCHB]

I can tell you

In many parts of the country, coal is still a predominant energy source. Maybe not California... and by far it is the most wide spread base generation fuel. I know natural gas passed coal a few years ago as the fossil fuel leader, but many of those natural gas plants don't run 24 hours a day.

Our 4,000mw gas plants would run 24 hours a day and the larger plants would be base loaded. Yes gas fuel Today energy producers must keep the cost down and be able to follow load. Most coal plants in the country are really old and can not compete in $$$$$ in any way. The only way you would ever build a coal plant is that you do not have any other fuel source. A combined cycle gas plant uses 40% less fuel and will start up in less than 3 hours. Can you imagine starting your RV generator and waiting 4 hours to come up to operating temperature before use. Next time you think coal is a better fuel sources to generate power at a low price convert your stove back to coal.
You know who is paying for that over generation at night on that coal plant. Yes the public.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Well yes, because people like their lights to come on when they get up to pee at 3 am.

Gas is popular right now because it is cheap. It is also very dispatchable, unlike nuclear and coal plants. I pulled up PJM's webpage when I wrote my original post, there was zero gas shown in the generation mix.

There is also an environmental cost to gas; drilling, pipelines and so on. And the greens are starting to key in on the NOx emissions from natural gas generation.

But the point of all this, Tesla's still run mostly on fossil fuels, they just don't put hydrocarbons in the car. Tailpipe emissions don't amount to much these days, so there isn't much benefit there.

 

[SJP]

I bought a Model S for my wife 5 years ago. P85D with Insane software and it was eligible for the Ludicrous Software update making it a P85DL model. After having the car for 5 years she loves it and it is her daily driver. I look around the market and think to myself if I bought her any other sedan or luxury SUV 5 years ago which one would still be relevant, current, hold value, and not have her wishing for an upgraded model? I cannot think of one in existence. Used mostly to commute to OC - LA - OC it works awesome. She loves to drive the car and she is not a car person. To me that is saying a lot.

I enjoy driving the car and I am a car person. Would I buy something else for myself? I probably would but I come back to if I bought something else I would want to trade and upgrade it for a newer model. So here is where I think Tesla has really released a cool product. They are selling a vehicle that you can own for 10 years and not want to replace.

Now here are the drawbacks. If they go under these things are going to be useless. It is proprietary technology - like specialized software and hardware if they are not working on it under warranty - forget about. If you think you are going to be wrenching and tuning this yourself buy a different car.

The carpool sticker mess. This is a CA created FUC___NG! They created the all electric car white stickers with no date on them and then 3 years later decided they wanted to come out with a red and purple sticker program. Also devaluing the CA trade in market if you get a used Tesla that has never been in state and had a sticker it is eligible for new owner and a new sticker. If the previous owner or original ever had a white sticker it will not be able to get a carpool sticker. The state is crazy in every facet and literally turn in the road.

Like anything else - it is not for everybody. Test drive one. Take a road trip in one if you know someone with one. I think we will have ours for 10+ years so taking in the depreciation curve of most modern cars on the market to me things could be worse...

SJP

 

[500bbc]

Perhaps it's because most know Tesla is a scam supported solely by our tax dollars backed by crooked politicians and lying green freaks trying to force more bullshit taxes down our throats while providing welfare for those wealthy enough to afford one.

 

[Uncle Dave]

People always fight new things, especially things they don't understand and haven't even tried - and Elon is easy to dislike.
Fuel injection, and cats are two good examples, you can go back to every industry facing the same criticisms.

Loans and subsidies aren't the same thing.

Tesla is no more supported by tax dollar than any other auto company and markedly less than a lot of them that have handed the US taxpayer HUGE bills and some till owe billions.

Public company investment keeps Tesla afloat - or not.

Fully agreed the greenwashing is annoying, and Elon is brilliant douchebag with a huge mouth and thin skinned.

Keeping Americans employed and American companies on the charts of best selling autos in their segment is important to me.

The product by and large delivers - its supposed Euro "killers" that have been coming since 2012 all stupendously disspointed in range and charge networks. All the tesla killers have so far not remotely performed as their hype.

Right know astoundingly AMERICANS have a monopoly on the best electric vehicles. It'd be great to see that continue.


UD

 

[Flynryan]

As far as the HOV lane stickers go I believe that the car is eligible if it has never had stickers before even if its an orig Ca car. I looked into this before buying my 3 because I was debating on buying a used S. I got a hold of a really nice lady at the Sacramento DMV and she educated me about it.

I bought a Model S for my wife 5 years ago. P85D with Insane software and it was eligible for the Ludicrous Software update making it a P85DL model. After having the car for 5 years she loves it and it is her daily driver. I look around the market and think to myself if I bought her any other sedan or luxury SUV 5 years ago which one would still be relevant, current, hold value, and not have her wishing for an upgraded model? I cannot think of one in existence. Used mostly to commute to OC - LA - OC it works awesome. She loves to drive the car and she is not a car person. To me that is saying a lot.

I enjoy driving the car and I am a car person. Would I buy something else for myself? I probably would but I come back to if I bought something else I would want to trade and upgrade it for a newer model. So here is where I think Tesla has really released a cool product. They are selling a vehicle that you can own for 10 years and not want to replace.

Now here are the drawbacks. If they go under these things are going to be useless. It is proprietary technology - like specialized software and hardware if they are not working on it under warranty - forget about. If you think you are going to be wrenching and tuning this yourself buy a different car.

The carpool sticker mess. This is a CA created FUC___NG! They created the all electric car white stickers with no date on them and then 3 years later decided they wanted to come out with a red and purple sticker program. Also devaluing the CA trade in market if you get a used Tesla that has never been in state and had a sticker it is eligible for new owner and a new sticker. If the previous owner or original ever had a white sticker it will not be able to get a carpool sticker. The state is crazy in every facet and literally turn in the road.

Like anything else - it is not for everybody. Test drive one. Take a road trip in one if you know someone with one. I think we will have ours for 10+ years so taking in the depreciation curve of most modern cars on the market to me things could be worse...

SJP

 

[TCHB]

I bought a Model S for my wife 5 years ago. P85D with Insane software and it was eligible for the Ludicrous Software update making it a P85DL model. After having the car for 5 years she loves it and it is her daily driver. I look around the market and think to myself if I bought her any other sedan or luxury SUV 5 years ago which one would still be relevant, current, hold value, and not have her wishing for an upgraded model? I cannot think of one in existence. Used mostly to commute to OC - LA - OC it works awesome. She loves to drive the car and she is not a car person. To me that is saying a lot.

I enjoy driving the car and I am a car person. Would I buy something else for myself? I probably would but I come back to if I bought something else I would want to trade and upgrade it for a newer model. So here is where I think Tesla has really released a cool product. They are selling a vehicle that you can own for 10 years and not want to replace.

Now here are the drawbacks. If they go under these things are going to be useless. It is proprietary technology - like specialized software and hardware if they are not working on it under warranty - forget about. If you think you are going to be wrenching and tuning this yourself buy a different car.

The carpool sticker mess. This is a CA created FUC___NG! They created the all electric car white stickers with no date on them and then 3 years later decided they wanted to come out with a red and purple sticker program. Also devaluing the CA trade in market if you get a used Tesla that has never been in state and had a sticker it is eligible for new owner and a new sticker. If the previous owner or original ever had a white sticker it will not be able to get a carpool sticker. The state is crazy in every facet and literally turn in the road.

Like anything else - it is not for everybody. Test drive one. Take a road trip in one if you know someone with one. I think we will have ours for 10+ years so taking in the depreciation curve of most modern cars on the market to me things could be worse...

SJP

I can tell you this car is fast. 100mph like nothing.

 

[530RL]

Although American assembled, Tesla’s don’t even make the top 10 for American content in their cars. Even a Jeep Cherokee and Ford F-150 have a higher American content than does a Tesla.

They aren’t really any greener than an ICE car as you have to get the power from somewhere and you have a lot of batteries to dispose of eventually.

And with respect to subsidies, the most subsidized industry in America getting our tax dollars is the oil and gas business, not Tesla so that argument against Tesla doesn’t hold much water either.

Seems to me that it is another product consumers get to choose from and that is good. They are neat cars and people who buy them typically really love them.

If you go to Europe, you will see a lot of electric and hybrid cars and they are coming to America. Even Ferrari’s new super car is going to be a hybrid. Tesla’s going to have some serious competition with all electric for shorter range and hybrid for longer range which is also good for all of us.

The more choices we have, the better off we are. What’s not to like about that.

 

[milkmoney]

If it's any help , I wouldn't know one if it parked next to me ...

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[wsuwrhr]

"Know one" is surprised Milfy.

If it's any help , I wouldn't know QUOTE]

 

[500bbc]

People always fight new things, especially things they don't understand and haven't even tried - and Elon is easy to dislike.
Fuel injection, and cats are two good examples, you can go back to every industry facing the same criticisms.

Loans and subsidies aren't the same thing.

Tesla is no more supported by tax dollar than any other auto company and markedly less than a lot of them that have handed the US taxpayer HUGE bills and some till owe billions.

Public company investment keeps Tesla afloat - or not.

Fully agreed the greenwashing is annoying, and Elon is brilliant douchebag with a huge mouth and thin skinned.

Keeping Americans employed and American companies on the charts of best selling autos in their segment is important to me.

The product by and large delivers - its supposed Euro "killers" that have been coming since 2012 all stupendously disspointed in range and charge networks. All the tesla killers have so far not remotely performed as their hype.

Right know astoundingly AMERICANS have a monopoly on the best electric vehicles. It'd be great to see that continue.


UD

Tesla buyers don't receive a rebate still? Aren't 100% of their "profits" based on sales of carbon credits, another tax in and of itself?

Honest questions.

 

[WhatExit?]

Those hoping for an electrified revolution with pickup trucks best be the patient type.

General Motors President Mark Reuss, in an interview with Bloomberg TV about the company's $150-million investment into its Flint truck plant, said an electric pickup truck would take some time to come to fruition. He added there are several hurdles in place that an electric pickup has to overcome before supplanting internal-combustion-engine trucks.

First, according to Reuss, automakers have to reduce charging times. Inundating an EV battery with power can cause lithium-ion plating – deposition – that forms around the anode of lithium-ion batteries, which can cause battery malfunctions. Next, the U.S. needs a robust EV charging infrastructure similar to our gasoline and diesel infrastructure currently spread out across the country.

Then there’s cost, or cost parity, something Reuss discussed earlier this month. Electric pickup trucks will have to reach cost parity with gasoline-powered trucks or be cheaper. He said during the interview that many people buy trucks to earn a living and no one will pay more for a work truck. Then there’s the issue of having an electric pickup perform as reliably as a gas-powered truck. Customers will expect it to haul, tow, and travel great distances reliably without worrying about recharging or other malfunctions.

While Reuss gave little info regarding GM’s electric pickup efforts, he may have provided an inadvertent hint. Near the end of the segment discussing electric trucks, Reuss says they could find success at the high-end level – fast, capable, and luxurious – but they wouldn’t be up to the grueling expectations of today’s pickups. That makes us think GM’s EV pickup won’t be a high-priced luxury model, but instead, be designed to function at every price point.

GM has a plan to launch 20 new electric vehicles by 2023. Reuss believes cost parity will happen sooner rather than later. An electric pickup truck has to go far beyond meeting customers expectations. Truck buyers are fiercely loyal; however, if the late few years of trucks are any indicator, they’re open to new powertrains, technologies, and other features.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Tesla buyers don't receive a rebate still? Aren't 100% of their "profits" based on sales of carbon credits, another tax in and of itself?

Honest questions.

Pretty solid and fair questions .

I dont see that tesla gets anything anyone else in the sector doesnt.

Electric car buyers receive a rebate- Audi, Jaguar, Chevy bol/volt (then it was in production) , Nissan leaf and Tesla. The bigger question to me is why are we allowing foreign auto makers clients the same credit as domestic manufacturers clients?

They've only been profiatble 1 quarter - did the carbon credit make that 100% probably not, but Im sure it helped.

Im against carbon taxation/credit for various reasons myself.

Pretty much everything categorized as a "renewable energy" gets a credit, deduction or break of some kid - from solar panels on your house to a windmill, that isn't unique to tesla.



UD

 

[spectras only]

Driven the hybrid Fisker Karma that would be my choice over Tesla. I look at Tesla or any full electric car as I do with my laptop. With new battery installed, it still wouldn't operate like it's supposed to. Pretty much have the damn thing plugged into AC if it's set on performance setting, watching videos or live streaming.

 

[Activated]

One reason, and one reason only that a Tesla will be my next commuter car...Car pool lane.

 

[500bbc]

Pretty solid and fair questions .

I dont see that tesla gets anything anyone else in the sector doesnt.

Electric car buyers receive a rebate- Audi, Jaguar, Chevy bol/volt (then it was in production) , Nissan leaf and Tesla. The bigger question to me is why are we allowing foreign auto makers clients the same credit as domestic manufacturers clients?

They've only been profiatble 1 quarter - did the carbon credit make that 100% probably not, but Im sure it helped.

Im against carbon taxation/credit for various reasons myself.

Pretty much everything categorized as a "renewable energy" gets a credit, deduction or break of some kid - from solar panels on your house to a windmill, that isn't unique to tesla.



UD

Then remove the rebate, taxpayer subsidy for people buying $100,000.00 cars, and repeal the ass raping carbon credit bullshit and let them stand on their own two feet.

 

[nameisbond]

I don't like the go green agenda. I don't like welfare, for individuals and corporations.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Then remove the rebate, taxpayer subsidy for people buying $100,000.00 cars, and repeal the ass raping carbon credit bullshit and let them stand on their own two feet.

Agreed on people buying 100K cars not needing subsidies.

None of the big 3 stood on their own two feet.

On the "repealing ass raping" front I sure got screwed by GM. I'd like my stock money back from the GM bankruptcy. Ford needs to repay its loan.


UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

Although American assembled, Tesla’s don’t even make the top 10 for American content in their cars. Even a Jeep Cherokee and Ford F-150 have a higher American content than does a Tesla.
They aren’t really any greener than an ICE car as you have to get the power from somewhere and you have a lot of batteries to dispose of eventually.
And with respect to subsidies, the most subsidized industry in America getting our tax dollars is the oil and gas business, not Tesla so that argument against Tesla doesn’t hold much water either.
Seems to me that it is another product consumers get to choose from and that is good. They are neat cars and people who buy them typically really love them.
If you go to Europe, you will see a lot of electric and hybrid cars and they are coming to America. Even Ferrari’s new super car is going to be a hybrid. Tesla’s going to have some serious competition with all electric for shorter range and hybrid for longer range which is also good for all of us.
The more choices we have, the better off we are. What’s not to like about that.

"Most American" is a game - played on several fronts.

The F150 is tied with the Ridgeline for Most american truck so when you say "even a" you listed one the the top vehicles in the US.

How can Foreign car maker qualify if the profit leaves the US? Fiat , Honda, Nissan

Conversely can a Ford, Chevy, or Fiat made in Mexico really qualify either ?

In my mind what country the money reports too plays a huge part regardless of what 3rd party slice and dice.



UD

 

[TPC]

 

[DRYHEAT]

I have a question for the Tesla owners, when you buy one do they warn you about the battery “bricking” if it is not charged?

 

[TCHB]

Tesla is getting big in the power plant with battery systems for load shaving and peaking power.

Here is a pic on what the new Tesla battery packs look like. 300MWs going in Long Beach area.

 

[TCHB]

Charge them up on off peak power prices and discharge back to the grid for peaking and load shaving. Not long ago a gas fired turbine would have been the choice.

 

[Andy B.]

Agreed on people buying 100K cars not needing subsidies.

None of the big 3 stood on their own two feet.

On the "repealing ass raping" front I sure got screwed by GM. I'd like my stock money back from the GM bankruptcy. Ford needs to repay its loan.


UD

I thought Ford repaid its loan already?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Charge them up on off peak power prices and discharge back to the grid for peaking and load shaving. Not long ago a gas fired turbine would have been the choice.

I'm looking at adding 8-10 MW of battery, as one of our green power options. The savings on the capacity charges with behind the meter storage makes it very attractive. Waiting for battery prices to come down a bit more.

Batteries aren't sexy like solar fields though, it'll be tough sell to get the sign off on the project.

 

[Uncle Dave]

I thought Ford repaid its loan already?

I think they owe about 3.5B - its not due to 2022. Id love to be wrong and learn they paid it all back.


UD

 

[Husqy510]

I have a question for the Tesla owners, when you buy one do they warn you about the battery “bricking” if it is not charged?

I think that was an issue with a few early roadsters that had been left sitting unplugged for a long time. Tesla tells you to leave the car plugged in when not driving it, but I've definitely left ours unplugged for a week with no issues.

 

[TCHB]

I'm looking at adding 8-10 MW of battery, as one of our green power options. The savings on the capacity charges with behind the meter storage makes it very attractive. Waiting for battery prices to come down a bit more.

Batteries aren't sexy like solar fields though, it'll be tough sell to get the sign off on the project.

Batteries are becoming very popular with utilities because they can charge them when electricity is not needed and discharge when needed. Capital costs and O/M costs re very low. Over the next 5 years a huge influx of batteries going in al over the country. People do not realize that energy is produced and has to be used. There is no storage unless you have batteries. It is not easy to keep everything at 60 cycles.

 

[pronstar]

I thought Ford repaid its loan already?

Ford mortgaged all of their assets, and their $5.9B secured govt loan isn’t due until 2022.

Chrysler and GM got bailout TARP loans, which were unsecured and with shorter payoff timeframes.

GM received $30B plus the formation of “new GM” that wiped their balance sheet clean. All liabilities were heaped-upon the “old GM”.


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[buck35]

Batteries are becoming very popular with utilities because they can charge them when electricity is not needed and discharge when needed. Capital costs and O/M costs re very low. Over the next 5 years a huge influx of batteries going in al over the country. People do not realize that energy is produced and has to be used. There is no storage unless you have batteries. It is not easy to keep everything at 60 cycles.

One of the local hydro dams , grand coulee has for years pumped water to a large reservoir when demand was low and reclaim the energy when demand is high.

 

[nowski]

I can't wait till Tesla starts building performance boats, yeah right.

 

[TPC]

Not a hater, I like them.
We're just not buying cars anymore.
SUV's and trucks mostly in this family.

I had an electric RAV at my work that was 100% solar charged. I liked it, but limited range.
We travel a lot and charging on the road is a PITA in many ways.
On top of that Tesla announced their charging stations will limit and only charge vehicles to 80% for the time being.

 

[TPC]

One of the local hydro dams , grand coulee has for years pumped water to a large reservoir when demand was low and reclaim the energy when demand is high.

That's what Pyramid and Castaic lake do.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

I have a 3 and love it. I dont care about it being "green". Its fast, gets 310 miles on full charge and I dont have to go to the gas station anymore.

So they are up to 310 now? That’s a deal maker for us, would make it to havasu.

 

[TPC]

Hyundai has been offering a lifetime battery warranty in the past. Dunno if they still do.
That's a BFD.

 

[TCHB]

One of the local hydro dams , grand coulee has for years pumped water to a large reservoir when demand was low and reclaim the energy when demand is high.

Yes we had pump back stations also. The cool thing about the battery packs you do not need huge electric motors to fill the battery packs. It is just a financial transaction. You buy low(night time) and sell high during peak times. The spark spread is really good.

 

[Racey]

Nicola Tesla was all about FREE Energy... His Patents were appropriated & now we have this mess built on GREED !

I hate to break it to you but there is no such thing as "FREE" energy.

 

[Racey]

I'm not a greeny, and in fact think most of them are misguided fools. That being said, 10 years ago when Musk said he was gonna build an electric car that would outperform gas counter parts, have a 300 mile range, and be able to drive itself totally autonomously without having any infrastructure installed in the roads themselves to facilitate it people laughed their asses off at him and said he was out of his mind.... He delivered on it.

They said the same thing when he started SpaceX and look at how he has essentially humiliated NASA's rocketry program, Top NASA people said his system would never work, he ended up building it on a fraction of their budget and revolutionizing payload delivery.

As for Oil and Gas getting subsidies, most of them are just normal business write offs and asset depreciations afforded across the board to all business/industries where they can apply. There is no magic "Free Money Subsidy Pile" for the oil and gas industry. Green libs like to also claim that since they aren't paying for the carbon released from their products after their use they are essentially being subsidized, a rather laughable idea.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/drilli...about-federal-oil-gas-subsidies/#1b3ea6b46e1c

 

[78Southwind]

I can't wait till Tesla starts building performance boats, yeah right.

It's somewhat of a joke but at Tesla's last shareholder meeting Elon stated they had design plans for a submarine. Elon owns the James Bond car / sub.

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[Hallett Dave]

That's what Pyramid and Castaic lake do.

Shaver lake does the same thing.