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Skater 368, from the beginning.

Skinny Tire AH

This ain't all folks! Skater368
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Can you take some progress pics?
I was telling another member the other day I want to make changes to my boat. But I don’t think it’s a good idea to drill holes in a boat haha

We miss the boat! It hurts us to see that it still isn’t right haha
As you might imagine, I’m not amused. But I have precious few choices.

I’m capable of fixing it, Mercury warranty is up. If this doesn’t work, I’m repowering the boat.
 

Riverryder

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As you might imagine, I’m not amused. But I have precious few choices.

I’m capable of fixing it, Mercury warranty is up. If this doesn’t work, I’m repowering the boat.
Didn’t mean to make it seem funny. You have the patients of a saint. I would have lost my shit on everyone being that you waited so long for the build. Like you said your lucky that you have the parts, tools and smarts to fix it. If someone else has these issues and they aren’t you then they are sol with a 6-7 figure boat!

Progress and documentation might help others is all I was saying. Seems like there a couple boats on here with the same motors.
Yes most big money boats sit in storage most there life but still can help another family is all.

I have told you a lot of times I hope to one day to get to see this thing in real life as you your wife and son pass me in my little boat! Haha
 

Skinny Tire AH

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Didn’t mean to make it seem funny. You have the patients of a saint. I would have lost my shit on everyone being that you waited so long for the build. Like you said your lucky that you have the parts, tools and smarts to fix it. If someone else has these issues and they aren’t you then they are sol with a 6-7 figure boat!

Progress and documentation might help others is all I was saying. Seems like there a couple boats on here with the same motors.
Yes most big money boats sit in storage most there life but still can help another family is all.

I have told you a lot of times I hope to one day to get to see this thing in real life as you your wife and son pass me in my little boat! Haha
I get it. No sweat. When it’s fixed, I’ll document the process.

I can’t see why my changes won’t work. But once I’m sure, I’ll let the gang here know.
 

monkeyswrench

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Not yet guys. Lots of changes, essentially replumbing the entire motor package.

Duramax is going to give me a hand tomorrow drilling holes in my boat. 🤡

Very fortunate to be in the fluid power industry. This would be a 4 alarm cluster fuck for somebody without unlimited parts access.
My first couple ricky-race cars were an exercise in learning AN fittings. I was lucky, an old racer lived up the road. He had buckets, marked -3 through -12. They were used, some had wrench or plier marks, but the price was right😍

I believe he may have been guilty of "contributing to the delinquency of a minor"
Actually, a few of us.
 

Skinny Tire AH

This ain't all folks! Skater368
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My first couple ricky-race cars were an exercise in learning AN fittings. I was lucky, an old racer lived up the road. He had buckets, marked -3 through -12. They were used, some had wrench or plier marks, but the price was right😍

I believe he may have been guilty of "contributing to the delinquency of a minor"
Actually, a few of us.
My stuff is all industrial type hose and couplings. We don’t even sell the performance plumbing stuff. It’s all under the motor and behind the side panels anyway
 

monkeyswrench

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1/4” wtf they trying to fuel a scooter?
Here's how I see it, Henry used 1/4" line from 1932-1953....60-115hp. Every bare bones minimum small block swap ends up with 5/16" or 3/8"...
I'm no engineer, rocket surgeon or even all that sharp, but there seems to be some supply issues happening...
 

monkeyswrench

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My stuff is all industrial type hose and couplings. We don’t even sell the performance plumbing stuff. It’s all under the motor and behind the side panels anyway
Being 100 miles from a performance shop, I've become pretty good with the industrial fittings...that's all we have. Usually I can find the fitting in some gold coated steel. Strip it and clear coat it, looks good enough for the girls I go with 😂
 

Skinny Tire AH

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Being 100 miles from a performance shop, I've become pretty good with the industrial fittings...that's all we have. Usually I can find the fitting in some gold coated steel. Strip it and clear coat it, looks good enough for the girls I go with 😂
Yavapai Fleet?
 

hallett21

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Example of the engineering foul-ups. Mechanical fuel pump inlet is 1/4 pipe thread. Electric fuel pump inlet is #10 ORB ???

The Aeromotive A1000 is literally starved for fuel.
Considering your professional background is there nothing you can gain by talking to someone higher up at Merc?

Glad to see you’re getting it handled either way. Kinda F’D you’re having to re engineer a “warrantied” system.

I’ll say you’re experience might make a few others think about Teague, Boostpower, etc.....
 

Singleton

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Considering your professional background is there nothing you can gain by talking to someone higher up at Merc?

Glad to see you’re getting it handled either way. Kinda F’D you’re having to re engineer a “warrantied” system.

I’ll say you’re experience might make a few others think about Teague, Boostpower, etc.....
Steve and I have texted about this. He has gone farther up the Merc Racing ladder then most with Skater pushing the issue as well. IMO, Merc has dug in and knows they have an issue, but fix it once and hundreds of customers will be asking for the same fix. Total BS and most shops will not touch this since those shops can’t risk losing Merc certification and warranty work.
 

575cat

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For as many of these that are out there ? I have and had twin 700 boats with stage 3 and never a problem , crazy , how about the pickups in the tank ?
 

Skinny Tire AH

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Considering your professional background is there nothing you can gain by talking to someone higher up at Merc?

Glad to see you’re getting it handled either way. Kinda F’D you’re having to re engineer a “warrantied” system.

I’ll say you’re experience might make a few others think about Teague, Boostpower, etc.....
Steve and I have texted about this. He has gone farther up the Merc Racing ladder then most with Skater pushing the issue as well. IMO, Merc has dug in and knows they have an issue, but fix it once and hundreds of customers will be asking for the same fix. Total BS and most shops will not touch this since those shops can’t risk losing Merc certification and warranty work.
This.
 

Marios Metalworks

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Is there a level of additional exposure to time/money costs where you start to call for more regulation of the recreational boating industry? In your experience with this build, has there been any form of consumer protection outside of a builder’s reputation and/or an engine manufacturer’s warranty?
 

Duramax

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Is there a level of additional exposure to time/money costs where you start to call for more regulation of the recreational boating industry? In your experience with this build, has there been any form of consumer protection outside of a builder’s reputation and/or an engine manufacturer’s warranty?
No, none.

What I don't understand is why don't ALL of the 700's have this issue? @575cat says he has stage 3 and his are perfect (you running Aeromotive pumps?)

It is INSANE that Mercury does not step up. When 3 top engine builders in the marine industry look at the schematic of the 700 fuel system and say, "wtf, that will not work!" I would say there is a problem.

Also, every Mercury Racing engine above the 700's use Weldon pumps instead of Aeromotive. Why?
 

Skinny Tire AH

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Stock pump,s
Here's my personal analysis. Aeromotive, like many, many other companies have gone offshore. I believe they have a bad run of gears or whatever. It normally is a metallurgy issue. Rockwell hardness is a gigantic thing on engineering lifespan of parts. Bad gear-sets or screws or something. I still haven't taken a bad on apart yet to see what pump type they are.

The issue puts a marginal system over the top and the new ones are failing at nearly 100%. But that's just my thinking.

@Duramax has been with me during one failure, we both nearly got wet. The rest of my failures, I have caught pre-failure due to watching fuel pressures closely. This last one was in Thompson bay floating eating lunch. I simply drove back to the islander on the port engine.

Its a shame to see this boat in so many pieces all over my garage.
 

Skinny Tire AH

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High Pressure filter after 7 hours.

92808BE3-7328-4BC8-91A4-98195B99D3CA.jpeg
 

v6toy4x

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Came in here looking for some cool pics of it in action, never thought this would still be a problem.
#10 as your smallest line should be sufficient!! thats a lot of fuel!
 

MooreMoney

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High Pressure filter after 7 hours.

View attachment 1115389
I have changed these many times on my 700's and they never looked like that after a season. Normally around 20 hours on them when i change them and they still look new.

Could oil be getting mixed into the fuel lines? I thought the oill and fuel gets cooled at some point on the motors toward the water pumps. i could be way off for its been awhile.
 

Skinny Tire AH

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I have changed these many times on my 700's and they never looked like that after a season. Normally around 20 hours on them when i change them and they still look new.

Could oil be getting mixed into the fuel lines? I thought the oill and fuel gets cooled at some point on the motors toward the water pumps. i could be way off for its been awhile.
There’s no component that they could mix in. The manual lift pump has an oil compartment but the diaphragm needs to fail for that.

It’s magnetic. I’m not an engineer, but I believe it to be the metal residue from gears failing.

Point is, fuel system is being changed 100%.

Port motor will be done in the morning. Starboard is gonna be a bitch. All the access to the fuel system is on the starboard side of the motors.
 

MooreMoney

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There’s no component that they could mix in. The manual lift pump has an oil compartment but the diaphragm needs to fail for that.

It’s magnetic. I’m not an engineer, but I believe it to be the metal residue from gears failing.

Point is, fuel system is being changed 100%.

Port motor will be done in the morning. Starboard is gonna be a bitch. All the access to the fuel system is on the starboard side of the motors.
Might as well change the spark plugs when you are laying down there on the Starboard side. I did that this year and my hands are still killing me. I made some special tools for next time around to make it a little easier for me.

Are you getting a lot of carbon burn on the back of the boat when you take it out of the water? wondering if a couple injectors are flowing to fast and starving the lines then causing the pumps to burn up. Sorry for the questions.

Best of luck getting it fixed!
 

McKay

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There’s no component that they could mix in. The manual lift pump has an oil compartment but the diaphragm needs to fail for that.

It’s magnetic. I’m not an engineer, but I believe it to be the metal residue from gears failing.

Point is, fuel system is being changed 100%.

Port motor will be done in the morning. Starboard is gonna be a bitch. All the access to the fuel system is on the starboard side of the motors.
If your access is decent to pull that engine that’s what we do. I know it sounds like a pain in the ass but we have found it to be a huge time saver in the end. We have it down to about 30 minutes now in the DCB’s we work on.

Buddy has Nordic flame though and that is a joke with front engine mount Nordic put on that boat.
 

Skinny Tire AH

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If your access is decent to pull that engine that’s what we do. I know it sounds like a pain in the ass but we have found it to be a huge time saver in the end. We have it down to about 30 minutes now in the DCB’s we work on.

Buddy has Nordic flame though and that is a joke with front engine mount Nordic put on that boat.
I have access to all that stuff. But I'm a one man show most of the time. My skinny ass fits down in front of the engine. I just take my time and listen to good music. I never forget how fortunate I am to even have this boat to work on.

All the tough, under motor stuff is behind me. the only difficult thing left is drilling one hole in the regulator/water separator mount for the new, bypass style regulators on the starboard motor.

Getting down there and forgetting a tool or dropping stuff is a bitch but, in for a penny, in for a pound.

The result will be worth it.
 

v6toy4x

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I have access to all that stuff. But I'm a one man show most of the time. My skinny ass fits down in front of the engine. I just take my time and listen to good music. I never forget how fortunate I am to even have this boat to work on.

All the tough, under motor stuff is behind me. the only difficult thing left is drilling one hole in the regulator/water separator mount for the new, bypass style regulators on the starboard motor.

Getting down there and forgetting a tool or dropping stuff is a bitch but, in for a penny, in for a pound.

The result will be worth it.
Your attitude never ceases to amaze me, talk about glass half full!!
 

Teague_JR

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Everything you are doing to the fuel system is the list of items required to reliably turn up 700's past their stock configuration. Its also my opinion that the internal quality of Aeromotive pumps have been going downhill for a long time. At this point its plausible they arent even going to be reliable in stock form, as you're finding out. If I could make a recommendation, install weldon pumps while you're at it. They don't fail and there is a Weldon model that will kinda fit like an A1000, easier to retrofit in than the usual weldon pump with a square bottom like the Merc 1075 and TCM1050 use...

Good luck with the modifications. At least its been a crash course education in how to do a marine fuel system the RIGHT way
 

Skinny Tire AH

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Everything you are doing to the fuel system is the list of items required to reliably turn up 700's past their stock configuration. Its also my opinion that the internal quality of Aeromotive pumps have been going downhill for a long time. At this point its plausible they arent even going to be reliable in stock form, as you're finding out. If I could make a recommendation, install weldon pumps while you're at it. They don't fail and there is a Weldon model that will kinda fit like an A1000, easier to retrofit in than the usual weldon pump with a square bottom like the Merc 1075 and TCM1050 use...

Good luck with the modifications. At least its been a crash course education in how to do a marine fuel system the RIGHT way
Thanks for that.

Fuel pump is a Weldon D2015-A
And a Weldon bypass regulator, don’t remember the number. I’ve added a #8 return to tank line.

I also took the fuel cooler out of the loop.

I’m nearly done. Planning on lake testing Monday.

If you zoom in on the stuff laid out on my rear deck, you can see a pump and a regulator

EDIT....Weldon Regulator #A2040-120. Has two #10-ORB in ports and one #8-ORB return to tank port. There is a boost reference port, same size and location as the Mercury one. All I had to do was put a 1/8" brass street el on it and thread it back in. I mounted it on the same bracket the Mercury unit was on. I had to drill one new hole to mount it.

Rather than fiddle at the lake with setting pressures, I plumbed my air compressor into it and set it at 71 PSI. that is the Mercury full throttle fuel pressure requirement. I also made some hoses with gauges on them that will reach the cockpit. I can watch pressure at full power. They are on small two-way valved brass quick disconnects to disconnect them when I don't need them. I'm sure I'll need to make small adjustments, but it'll be close.
 
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HNL2LHC

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Thanks for that.

Fuel pump is a Weldon D2015-A
And a Weldon bypass regulator, don’t remember the number. I’ve added a #8 return to tank line.

I also took the fuel cooler out of the loop.

I’m nearly done. Planning on lake testing Monday.

If you zoom in on the stuff laid out on my rear deck, you can see a pump and a regulator

Excited to hear testing on Monday. Best to you and that day!!!!
 

HST4ME

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Steve and I have texted about this. He has gone farther up the Merc Racing ladder then most with Skater pushing the issue as well. IMO, Merc has dug in and knows they have an issue, but fix it once and hundreds of customers will be asking for the same fix. Total BS and most shops will not touch this since those shops can’t risk losing Merc certification and warranty work.
PoliticalWelllitDunlin-max-1mb.gif
 

HST4ME

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The first thing any fuel injected motor needs is constant and repeatable fuel pressure. The cobble fuck stock 700 system provides anything but that.
 

Gelcoater

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I have changed these many times on my 700's and they never looked like that after a season. Normally around 20 hours on them when i change them and they still look new.

Could oil be getting mixed into the fuel lines? I thought the oill and fuel gets cooled at some point on the motors toward the water pumps. i could be way off for its been awhile.
I’m curious what year your rig is.
 

Teague_JR

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Thanks for that.

Fuel pump is a Weldon D2015-A
And a Weldon bypass regulator, don’t remember the number. I’ve added a #8 return to tank line.

I also took the fuel cooler out of the loop.

I’m nearly done. Planning on lake testing Monday.

If you zoom in on the stuff laid out on my rear deck, you can see a pump and a regulator

EDIT....Weldon Regulator #A2040-120. Has two #10-ORB in ports and one #8-ORB return to tank port. There is a boost reference port, same size and location as the Mercury one. All I had to do was put a 1/8" brass street el on it and thread it back in. I mounted it on the same bracket the Mercury unit was on. I had to drill one new hole to mount it.

Rather than fiddle at the lake with setting pressures, I plumbed my air compressor into it and set it at 71 PSI. that is the Mercury full throttle fuel pressure requirement. I also made some hoses with gauges on them that will reach the cockpit. I can watch pressure at full power. They are on small two-way valved brass quick disconnects to disconnect them when I don't need them. I'm sure I'll need to make small adjustments, but it'll be close.

Ok good, sorry I didn’t examine the pics too close..

You set the pressure incorrectly. Keep in mind the fuel pressure is boost referenced. You need to set the fuel pressure with static manifold vacuum (pump on engine off) or with the little boost reference line disconnected at idle…. I think the static pressure setting is 65-67 but double check that.

“Full throttle” fuel pressure includes the boost reference bonus..
 

Skinny Tire AH

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Ok good, sorry I didn’t examine the pics too close..

You set the pressure incorrectly. Keep in mind the fuel pressure is boost referenced. You need to set the fuel pressure with static manifold vacuum (pump on engine off) or with the little boost reference line disconnected at idle…. I think the static pressure setting is 65-67 but double check that.

“Full throttle” fuel pressure includes the boost reference bonus..
That’s great information. I’ll do it at idle with the BR tube disconnected.

I’m grateful for that. It’s been a bit of a goat rope having to re-engineer this. I’m very fortunate to be in the hose business. It would suck not knowing sizes and not having access to stuff.

I’ll report back on my mission Monday.

BTW, spoke to Josh at your place last week. Ordered Manual lift pump blocking plates. He offered some valuable info on my project.

He was very helpful.

Thank you
 

Teague_JR

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That’s great information. I’ll do it at idle with the BR tube disconnected.

I’m grateful for that. It’s been a bit of a goat rope having to re-engineer this. I’m very fortunate to be in the hose business. It would suck not knowing sizes and not having access to stuff.

I’ll report back on my mission Monday.

BTW, spoke to Josh at your place last week. Ordered Manual lift pump blocking plates. He offered some valuable info on my project.

He was very helpful.

Thank you

Thats good to hear. Full disclosure I don't work there anymore but yes they are very familiar with the upgrades you are performing.
 
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