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Smaller 5th wheel Toyhaulers

Bowtiepower00

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Been shopping for quite awhile. Wanted a shorter 5th wheel, for several reasons. Mainly storage, my RV garage is 48’ (just over 46 after accounting for the doors) and I didn’t want to park anything outside. Old ladies SUV will fit in front of this rig with her pulling under the hitch 3’. Allows me to park my truck (21’) on the other side of the garage and keep everything inside. I refuse to park 70k cars outside so I can fit an oversized RV In the garage. Still
Have room for a SXS and possibly a ski.

Wanted to be able to fit a 4 seat RZR pro or Mav, not sure on how wide I can go quite yet, that’s a discussion for another day. I know a 64” car will be no problem, I will test fit some of my neighbors cars to see if I can fit a 72” car when the time comes.

First Hauler was an Eclipse Iconic 1913 CB-LE bumper pull. It was a decent first trailer and got us to where we needed to go. It was small, but we made due. Sold it a couple of years ago at the beginning of the covid craze and got most of our money back.

I knew this time I wanted a fiver. I upgraded my tow rig to a Ram 3500 SRW Mega with HO motor, rear air ride, and factory pucks/ gooseneck for the inevitable upgrade. Towing in AZ and out west in general is pretty demanding, I wanted the smallest trailer I could fit a 4 seater in to keep things easy when we are hitting campgrounds and national parks. We do quite a bit of camping in the Midwest and many of the campgrounds we visit have limited space for larger trailers.

I didnt want a bunch of foo foo shit, and wanted to avoid any slides if possible. That really narrowed things down. I just want somewhere to hang out in bad weather, sleep, and have a decent size bedroom. I plan on keeping this rig for several years.

When Genesis introduced their Wanderer line I was intrigued. I originally wanted a 29ckwl. I was not able to find one locally. I went in to order one, but due to how Genesis batch builds trailers I was looking at several months before I would be able to actually order one.

They had several 28SAWL models in stock. I ended up pulling the trigger. 31’ish overall length, 17’ of space in the garage area and 75” of interior width between cabinets. I’m not 100% I’ll be able to fit a 72” SXS inside, I’ll worry about that later.

No slides, minimal fluff, and about $16k cheaper than the Genesis Supreme units. Only a single 15k AC, 30 amp service, and 4K gen, but that’s alright, I don’t stay anywhere over 100 ambient. Might have to add another AC at some point, time will tell, if I do, I’ll probably just add a portable and plug it in with another 120 line when we are on shore power.

Looking forward to finally being in a fifth wheel, prices are absolutely nuts, but I got a decent deal and my son is 9, I don’t want to waste precious years waiting on the market to come back to reality. The smaller trailer should tow like a dream behind the Ram. I’m going with the Anderson hitch (I know, save the BS…) I know of several who use it and like it, I didn’t want to have to fight removing a B&W hitch from the bed, and it was about half the price after a generous discount.

Eclipse layout:
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Genesis layout:
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Bowtiepower00

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Having another outlet ran in the RV garage and didn’t want it outside or in the way. Take delivery on the 4th.
 

Bowtiepower00

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Picked it up today. Weights to follow. Scaled it on the way home, need to get an empty weight on the truck tomorrow. Right around 50’ total OAL. And 10k trailer weight. 18700 total weight with a little water in the tanks and a couple of gallons of fuel in the tank. Time go get it loaded and start the upgrades and modifications…
 

Icky

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View attachment 1093482 View attachment 1093483 View attachment 1093484 Picked it up today. Weights to follow. Scaled it on the way home, need to get an empty weight on the truck tomorrow. Right around 50’ total OAL. And 10k trailer weight. 18700 total weight with a little water in the tanks and a couple of gallons of fuel in the tank. Time go get it loaded and start the upgrades and modifications…
For reference my 2013 2500 megacab diesel was 8540 total with just me in the truck. 3660 rear 4880 front on a non cat scale.
 

Bowtiepower00

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Yeah. My 16 CCSB was similar. The mega cab and Aisin trans will probably add a bit of weight, but I only had about a quarter tank of fuel in the truck. I’ll try to reweigh just the truck in the morning.
 

CLdrinker

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18700 is about what my stealth and Ram weighed.
So that trailer is definitely lighter than my stealth which was like 10800 I think.
 

Bowtiepower00

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I just checked the gauge. Water is full, 100g so there’s another 800lb. Not as bad as I thought.
 
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Bowtiepower00

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18700 is about what my stealth and Ram weighed.
So that trailer is definitely lighter than my stealth which was like 10800 I think.
Gas truck was probably 1200lb lighter than a diesel rig. But that was a big trailer you had. Definitely impressed with the factory rear air suspension, doesn’t squat a bit. HO/ Aisin ran well, first time towing with it. Engine/exhaust brake is definitely stronger than the SO/68RFE. Not that the SO had any issues.
 

Bowtiepower00

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After I reweigh tomorrow I’ll post scale receipts from the old rig and the new one. Will be interesting to see where it ends up after I get a sxs down the road. I’m pretty sure I’ll be over 12k. The upgraded 7k axles are mandatory, IMO.
 

CLdrinker

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After I reweigh tomorrow I’ll post scale receipts from the old rig and the new one. Will be interesting to see where it ends up after I get a sxs down the road. I’m pretty sure I’ll be over 12k. The upgraded 7k axles are mandatory, IMO.
That stealth had 6k axles. So it had 12,000lb axle capacity plus the whatever weight the tongue was. Which empty was 1800.
So 13800-10800= 3,000 capacity. Funny thing I found out about the 6k axle and 7k’s. The bearing and hubs are the only difference.

But yes 7k axles are bad ass! Plus you probably have 2200lb tongue weight.

I like your trailer I look forward to hearing about your trips.
 

Bowtiepower00

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Memorial Day, Fathers Day, and Labor Day are already planned. New RV neighborhood is all duners and campers. Good times. Plan on using the shit outta this rig, regardless of fuel prices.
 

Riverryder

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@Bowtiepower00 didnt you post a thread of you downsizing to live a simpler life? Wasn’t worth it? Haha

Congrats on the trailer looks nice!
My trailer is 9900 dry. I love it!
 

Bowtiepower00

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Totally worth it. Mortgage and trailer. That’s it. Son is 9, want to get some trips in before he gets too old. Pay all of our bills first half of the month. Probably the wrong time to jump in, but you only live once.
 

Bowtiepower00

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Plus, RV is inside a garage. As well as my vehicles. No worries about water or sun damage. Purchased a trailer that checks all of the boxes and should work for us for many years to come. Don’t need the biggest and baddest. Just something to get us on the road. Have a great driving easy to tow setup that should serve us well for many years to come.

My backup plan is to hit the road and travel for work. I could potentially double my income if I go that route. And although things would be tight, I could fulltime in this rig.
 

Bowtiepower00

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Hit the scale empty.

This 3500 is heavy. 8720, just me in the truck, fuel tank empty, and no extra shit in the truck besides the Anderson hitch.

Comparatively, my 2500 CCSB was that exact weight with me, the old lady, a kid, dog, full of fuel, Rambox loaded with tools, and bed half full of camping shit, propane tanks, 25g of water, etc.



Scale tickets top to bottom:

3500 and fiver, water tank and 2 30 lb propane tanks full but otherwise unloaded, 1/4 tank in truck.

3500 empty on fumes, no trailer

2500 loaded as described above plus our 19(26’) Bumper pull, full of water and loaded for camping but no sxs inside.

2500 truck only loaded as described above.

New fiver empty appears to be about 9200 with water tank empty. Just over 2k on the pin.
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Bowtiepower00

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Small update. Started stripping the decals today, just under half finished. Made another post about that. Will post pics once done.

Measured the neighbors canned ham 72” car, with 6+1 wheels it’s right at 71” wide, so shouldn’t have any issues with fitment.

Not SXS shopping quite yet, going to get the Ram dialed in with some Thuren upgrades and hopefully a S&B 52 gallon tank before I start looking. Planning on going new, and won’t purchase until prices come back to earth, even if it’s a year or so out.
 

Riverryder

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@Bowtiepower00 hows the anderson? i have the demco autoslider im thinking of selling. its awesome to turn with, easy to hook up to trailer but it takes up the entire bed!!!
 

Bowtiepower00

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@Bowtiepower00 hows the anderson? i have the demco autoslider im thinking of selling. its awesome to turn with, easy to hook up to trailer but it takes up the entire bed!!!
I like it, I have a couple of buddies who run them. I’ve seen the posts of them failing, but they have moved to a gen 2 that is supposedly a little stronger. I like that it’s only about 50 pounds, and I was able to get it for around 800 bucks.

If I had a heavier trailer I’d go with the B&W 5th wheel hitch, those are friggen beasts. But it would end up never coming out of the bed.

@DILLIGAF runs one with his setup I think, he might have more experience with all of the miles he puts on his rig.

I will add, no issues with bed and cab clearance with my shortbed.
 

Riverryder

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@Bowtiepower00 seeing the way the demco acts when the load of the trailer is on it. makes me think theres no way the anderson is strong enough. but alot of people use them so they must work. i love my demco just would rather get the bed back. good thing i have 2 trucks.
 

Bowtiepower00

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@Bowtiepower00 seeing the way the demco acts when the load of the trailer is on it. makes me think theres no way the anderson is strong enough. but alot of people use them so they must work. i love my demco just would rather get the bed back. good thing i have 2 trucks.
The only issues I’ve seen are during an accident. My buddy ran one on a 40’ Genesis that was 18k loaded, and had no issues. I agree that there’s no way in hell it’s as strong as a B&W.

Rowley white sells the shit outta them and the shop guys appear to run them on their trucks, so that gives me some confidence that they work.

I wish they made one that uses the factory pucks instead of the gooseneck ball. But the coupler that they use in place of the ball is pretty slick.

They did say that the hitch works better on trucks with a spray in liner.
 

DILLIGAF

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@Bowtiepower00 seeing the way the demco acts when the load of the trailer is on it. makes me think theres no way the anderson is strong enough. but alot of people use them so they must work. i love my demco just would rather get the bed back. good thing i have 2 trucks.
I am fine with my Anderson as it came with my setup. It is very easy to remove from the bed etc. If I were to buy a new RAM Dually I would order the Mopar 35K hitch to be installed prior to del of the truck. I don't feel uncomfortable enough with it to dictate changing out at this time. Its done its job and I am heavy going down the road for sure.

Of course I have heard everything negative about the Anderson as I travel the country. I do know that Anderson has been very good with support when needed and they carry good insurance that would kick in upon a failure of the unit but personally I think the concerns are overblown a bit. However, for the people it did fail on I am sure they would totally disagree.
 

Bowtiepower00

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That looks awesome. I would have done that to mine but it was a couple years old and would not have come off as clean as yours. Good job
Thanks. I waited a couple of years on the old rig, and it was a nightmare. Plus it had aluminum siding.

I wanted to do this one asap, before the heat set in. I parked it in the sun for the morning and everything peeled pretty easily. Used a little heat on the stubborn ones. Goo gone on the left over adhesive here or there.
 

Bowtiepower00

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Got the rig detailed today. Got most of the yellow ghosting off with 3m adhesive remover. Will probably tint the windows this fall, tired of burning money, just spent a grand on oil and filters for the Ram, lol.
 

Bowtiepower00

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Had a great trip. Trailer pulls like a dream. No major issues. Northern AZ was crazy windy and dusty. Got some riding in and had a great trip. Cows and bulls were out in force.
 

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Bowtiepower00

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Time for another update. Made an unexpected trip to Iowa (mom passed away, took my family and the old man up to put her to rest)

2 week trip, just under 5000 miles all together. Averaged 7-9 MPG. Truck ran great, pulled grades well, and never lacked for power. Well, at least compared to a 6.7/ 10 speed, lol. Megacab was incredible, had the rear seat reclined and the old lady, kiddo, and standard poodle were back there along with a cooler, and had blankets and pillows to keep them comfortable. PLENTY of room. I will never go back to a crew cab.

Trailer did great. Towed great- no issues with the Andersen hitch. Drove straight through each way- stopping at a rest stop once each direction to sleep for a few hours about halfway through.

Trailer did great. Shower was huge compared to the last rig. Kitchen was perfect. Single 15k A/C kept the rig at 74 degrees in 100 degree 80% humidity without issue. I was worried before the trip and I’m not after.

30’ was plenty of room after coming from a 20’ trailer.

100 gallons fresh water was plenty for us to take 10 minute showers every night for 4 days. Quite an improvement compared to the 40 gallons the last trailer had.

Overall, a great trailer. Want to make a few changes for off grid stuff but I’ll cover that in a later post.

TLDR: Tows great, plenty of room, single 15k A/C and “shitty” insulation did fine in 100 degree ambient with 80% humidity.

Interesting note, the stripped decals appears to be a southwest/ desert thing. I had multiple people come up to me complementing my rig while camping in the Midwest. They had never seen a stripped rig before.
 

amberkiza

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i have the demco autoslider im thinking of selling. its awesome to turn with, easy to hook up to trailer but it takes up the entire bed!!!
 
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Bowtiepower00

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Finally have a toy for the hauler. Turbo R is 76”+ up front with paddles and beadlocks, and 85” out back. Took out the couch on one side, and strapped the front together to make it fit. Couch removed easily from the brackets using 2 bolts, so I can remove and replace as necessary in just a few minutes. Length was no issue, I can still get to the fridge, etc.

Also stopped to get a scale weight, water and propane full, holding tanks 1/4-ish, RV fuel tank with probably 20ish gallons, and loaded for camping with the RZR, 23000 lb, see scale ticket below.

That is with a full tank of fuel and DEF in the Ram plus 100ish pounds of firewood in the bed. Plus 2 adults, my 10 year old, and a 50 pound dog in the cab.

Trailer pulled great, no sway or wag even with the car loaded, didn’t have to back it in.

Good to know I’m under on all weights, including payload, when fully loaded for camping. I love it when a plan comes together.

Just ordered a bunch of Thuren goodies for the truck, and am looking forward for an improvement in ride on the tow rig.
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rickym20

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Finally have a toy for the hauler. Turbo R is 76”+ up front with paddles and beadlocks, and 85” out back. Took out the couch on one side, and strapped the front together to make it fit. Couch removed easily from the brackets using 2 bolts, so I can remove and replace as necessary in just a few minutes. Length was no issue, I can still get to the fridge, etc.

Also stopped to get a scale weight, water and propane full, holding tanks 1/4-ish, RV fuel tank with probably 20ish gallons, and loaded for camping with the RZR, 23000 lb, see scale ticket below.

That is with a full tank of fuel and DEF in the Ram plus 100ish pounds of firewood in the bed. Plus 2 adults, my 10 year old, and a 50 pound dog in the cab.

Trailer pulled great, no sway or wag even with the car loaded, didn’t have to back it in.

Good to know I’m under on all weights, including payload, when fully loaded for camping. I love it when a plan comes together.

Just ordered a bunch of Thuren goodies for the truck, and am looking forward for an improvement in ride on the tow rig.
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What dimension were you able to get the front to by strapping it ? Just curious how narrow it gets by doing that. I currently am ruled out of upgrading RZR unless I get a new toy hauler.

Your set up is Bad Ass!
 

Bowtiepower00

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What dimension were you able to get the front to by strapping it ? Just curious how narrow it gets by doing that. I currently am ruled out of upgrading RZR unless I get a new toy hauler.

Your set up is Bad Ass!
The front end will droop like crazy, and I can get it under 70”, but the car gets really tall at that point. So I strap it to about 70-71ish… still kind of figuring that all out, I’ve only loaded it for one trip so far. I was going to flip the rear bed for more clearance but it was already against the roof by the door, it’s a “low-profile” trailer, so the door and clearance under the bed is 82” give or take. With a full height trailer I don’t think I’d have any issues.

If I had the room, the brackets that the bed mount to could be unbolted and flipped for another 4ish inches of clearance.
 

CLdrinker

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Looking good. I like that trailer. So if your truck is about 8,000 fully loaded your trailer is a bit over 14k right?
 

Bowtiepower00

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Looking good. I like that trailer. So if your truck is about 8,000 fully loaded your trailer is a bit over 14k right?
Truck is right about 9 with fuel tank full, trailer is right about 14. Pin weight around 2500.

We were loaded pretty good for that last scale ticket, I could see maybe adding another couple of hundred pounds here or there, but overall, 9000 truck/ 14 trailer/ 23 total when hauling the RZR is pretty accurate.

Thuren stuff arrives this afternoon. Trailer goes in for warranty service next weekend, and I’ll work on the truck while the garage is empty.

Nothing major wrong with the trailer, it’s actually been really great- far better than our Eclipse we had before this one (knock on wood). We’re coming up on a year with the trailer so I figured I’d let them sort out any loose ends before it expires.

I did crawl around under it on a creeper with some zip ties and wire loom, and re-secured some of the factory wiring.
 

boatnam2

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Im looking in the same size range you have Bowtie, any other tips you have looking at them? Where did you end up buying at?
 

Bowtiepower00

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Im looking in the same size range you have Bowtie, any other tips you have looking at them? Where did you end up buying at?
I really like the Genesis models, and am happy with the wanderer. My ideal trailer would be the 33CK or 36CK, but the 25-30k price difference wasn’t worth it to me, and I wouldn’t be able to fit a car in front of it when it’s in the garage.

In hindsight, the 29CKWL I originally wanted, because of fridge placement, I wouldn’t be able to get to the fridge when loaded, and it would be even narrower by an inch or two when loading the car.

As it sits with the 28, I can pull the car in, and open the door to get out, and still get to the fridge and pantry when loaded. I put the chairs up in the hallway by the bathroom, and still have room in front of the car for coolers and my sons go kart. I wish I had enough room for a 170/200 RZR, but I would have to jump to quite a bit bigger trailer to do that.

This was my second purchase from Rowley White, and I've sent them a few referrals. I have had nothing but great experiences with both sales and service at their PHX McDowell location.
 
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