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DuttonDave

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I am running jackplates and 300’s on my Trifecta. Props are 25 Revolutions with a set of 27’s waiting to go on. These motors seem to be happiest when they are loaded up. I don’t think I will see the rev limiters with the 27s but my fuel to forward thrust will be very efficient. Once I get the 27’s on I will let you know how it goes.


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Please do...
 

Flying_Lavey

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With the torque master lower you can only go as high as the water pressure will allow you being that it picks up on the side of the gear case above the prop shop. The other thing is once you go to high you start losing efficiency on the Propellers in essence side paddling rather than pushing forward.

Jack plates definitely make it an easier to find the sweet spot . And no I’ve never heard of Jack’s Place voiding the warranty. Especially not on a pontoon.
The 400 isnt offered with the torque master. The only 2 lowers offered for the 400 are the sport master and the 5.44 Offshore which is the most common on the pontoons that I have seen. The 5.44's do at least have nose cone inlets as well so that SHOULD help water pressure concern.
 

RiverDave

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The 400 isnt offered with the torque master. The only 2 lowers offered for the 400 are the sport master and the 5.44 Offshore which is the most common on the pontoons that I have seen. The 5.44's do at least have nose cone inlets as well so that SHOULD help water pressure concern.
I believe they offer the sport master with the R’s.. I have 400 R’s but torque master lowers for some reason
 

Flying_Lavey

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I believe they offer the sport master with the R’s.. I have 400 R’s but torque master lowers for some reason
They do have the sport. Not the torque. I bet you have the 5.44 Offshore lowers. Look on the front side of your torpedo, if there are water pick-ups, its the 5.44
 

Bullhead bully

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The 400 isnt offered with the torque master. The only 2 lowers offered for the 400 are the sport master and the 5.44 Offshore which is the most common on the pontoons that I have seen. The 5.44's do at least have nose cone inlets as well so that SHOULD help water pressure concern.
They most definitely offer the 400 with a torque master. Consumer and Racing.

0BDFD970-6DC6-44BC-BC5F-F20DDCDF8862.png
I have two of them.

when your boat runs under 85 mph sport master is not needed.
 

hallett21

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They most definitely offer the 400 with a torque master. Consumer and Racing.

View attachment 997960 I have two of them.

when your boat runs under 85 mph sport master is not needed.
Saw this in the other thread. New build or did you pick this up? Saw your Nordic with 400s in the channel. Is that the old one or still yours?


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Flying_Lavey

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They most definitely offer the 400 with a torque master. Consumer and Racing.

View attachment 997960 I have two of them.

when your boat runs under 85 mph sport master is not needed.
I know it's not needed. I was going off the mercury racing website. It said the 400r only comes with the sport master or 5.44. The 5.44 has more side inlets as well as the front of nose cone versus the torque. I don't know if that's new or if or when it was changed, or if that is even all the options. Just want the website says.

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RiverDave

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I know it's not needed. I was going off the mercury racing website. It said the 400r only comes with the sport master of 5.44. The 5.44 has more side inlets as well as the front of nose cone versus the torque. I don't know if that's new or if or when it was changed, or if that is even all the options. Just want the website says.

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I have the same as Bullheads they are a blunt bullet not the pointed one.. I’m not sure if I have the lower pick ups or not but don’t believe that I do.
 

2FORCEFULL

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I have the same as Bullheads they are a blunt bullet not the pointed one.. I’m not sure if I have the lower pick ups or not but don’t believe that I do.
I'd say from your report there's a lot on the table Dave, I'd start by lifting the motors ,.... and go up till you can't no more, or when it stops getting gain... only running 8 mph faster than a single 250 doesn't sound right...
 

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my toon has a longer 27'' center tube , I think it works like a set back out drive, thatt and it has way less drag with the outer tubes up higher.. I can sure feel the difference going from the godfrey to the coach,... the coach even on plane WOT feels like i'm towing something, that and it runs bow high compared to the Godfrey
 

RiverDave

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I'd say from your report there's a lot on the table Dave, I'd start by lifting the motors ,.... and go up till you can't no more, or when it stops getting gain... only running 8 mph faster than a single 250 doesn't sound right...
Well one thing I discovered on the toon front is most people aren’t exactly “honest” with the speeds.. sure a single might run some number.. but load it up with fuel people coolers etc and that number changed substantially.. even then it’s WFO everywhere ya go.. the cruising speeds drop even more.

With the twin 400’s we are cruising in the 50’s (which is faster than most 496/525 boats cruising speeds) but I’m hitting a wall in the low 60’s.. It definitely needs some dial in. My goal is to maintain the same cruising speed but up the top speed considerably just for fun.

While the boat does cruise 50’s I spend most of my time in the mid 40’s.
 

2FORCEFULL

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Well one thing I discovered on the toon front is most people aren’t exactly “honest” with the speeds.. sure a single might run some number.. but load it up with fuel people coolers etc and that number changed substantially.. even then it’s WFO everywhere ya go.. the cruising speeds drop even more.

With the twin 400’s we are cruising in the 50’s (which is faster than most 496/525 boats cruising speeds) but I’m hitting a wall in the low 60’s.. It definitely needs some dial in. My goal is to maintain the same cruising speed but up the top speed considerably just for fun.

While the boat does cruise 50’s I spend most of my time in the mid 40’s.
so stop the candid part of this thread,.. take a pic of the drives with a straight edge on the bottom of the tube.... those in the know will take one look and know whats wrong....keep in mind it's 2 part,... raising the motors might require a prop change..
 

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you can have a boat, and let some one drive it that knows the boat,... they can say,... hey sum ting wong... but the only way they will know is when it's on the trailer and they look...
 

RiverDave

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so stop the candid part of this thread,.. take a pic of the drives with a straight edge on the bottom of the tube.... those in the know will take one look and know whats wrong....keep in mind it's 2 part,... raising the motors might require a prop change..
The drives are pretty close to neutral in this pic. Ironically enough this is where we trim the boat while we are running, which tells me they are waaayyyy low.

Boat is down at Barrett right now getting the 20 hour service.. After that I’m going to take the tables and other 400 lbs of stuff we will never use out of it and start some baseline testing and mods

D46A1795-7770-48B9-BE1E-955E31A8BD35.jpeg
8FE0472D-DEED-4606-9813-04D033AF43F1.jpeg
08B8B243-4C5B-43D2-9DA9-75376C2099F1.jpeg
 
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RiverDave

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@Flying_Lavey these lowers do have pick ups in the front of the bullet btw.. we will have to block off the upper holes if we start raising the motors to prevent them from sucking air..
 

2FORCEFULL

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I say the drives are right,...and I would not go higher,..... so looking at the pics i'm gonna sat that it's proped wrong and at wot the slip is way high....

i'm the guy that wants to be wrong... not right.... when I'm right, I learn nothing... being wrong is when you learn something...

so,... back to the prop slip calc... record rpm VS speed and see where it's at
 

2FORCEFULL

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also, does your boat not have lifting strakes???? I don't see them in the pic...
 

RiverDave

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I say the drives are right,...and I would not go higher,..... so looking at the pics i'm gonna sat that it's proped wrong and at wot the slip is way high....

i'm the guy that wants to be wrong... not right.... when I'm right, I learn nothing... being wrong is when you learn something...

so,... back to the prop slip calc... record rpm VS speed and see where it's at
I gotta figure out the drive ratio & then go take a real look at rpm vs speed.. I am guessing my rpm’s (off memory) to be in the 6200 range with the speed being 63 running 19 revolutions spinning out
 

2FORCEFULL

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I gotta figure out the drive ratio & then go take a real look at rpm vs speed.. I am guessing my rpm’s (off memory) to be in the 6200 range with the speed being 63 running 19 revolutions spinning out
well. heres the best the motor will ever do, 7000 rpms 19p , 1.75 gear 0 slip, = 72 mph
 
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hallett21

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Well one thing I discovered on the toon front is most people aren’t exactly “honest” with the speeds.. sure a single might run some number.. but load it up with fuel people coolers etc and that number changed substantially.. even then it’s WFO everywhere ya go.. the cruising speeds drop even more.

With the twin 400’s we are cruising in the 50’s (which is faster than most 496/525 boats cruising speeds) but I’m hitting a wall in the low 60’s.. It definitely needs some dial in. My goal is to maintain the same cruising speed but up the top speed considerably just for fun.

While the boat does cruise 50’s I spend most of my time in the mid 40’s.
Oh cmon everyone lies . That’s why I tell people any day of the week it’s a 60mph boat. It’s a 65 any day and if I really leg it it’s a 69-73 depending on prop. Does anyone really want to hear that number though?

Jack plates would make your boat a threat


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2FORCEFULL

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the same motor with a 21p would run at very best,.. 80 mph w/ 0 slip. if in fact you could raise the motor 2 holes, and get the 19p to 7000 you would be at 65 mph with 9% slip
 

2FORCEFULL

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keep in mind though,.. if you are running 62 with a 28' toon loaded with 6/8 people... thats a pretty good number
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Well one thing I discovered on the toon front is most people aren’t exactly “honest” with the speeds.. sure a single might run some number.. but load it up with fuel people coolers etc and that number changed substantially.. even then it’s WFO everywhere ya go.. the cruising speeds drop even more.

With the twin 400’s we are cruising in the 50’s (which is faster than most 496/525 boats cruising speeds) but I’m hitting a wall in the low 60’s.. It definitely needs some dial in. My goal is to maintain the same cruising speed but up the top speed considerably just for fun.

While the boat does cruise 50’s I spend most of my time in the mid 40’s.
LOL say it isn’t so??? People spend a couple hundred grand on a floating couch after having a high performance boat and lie about the top speeds to rationalize their purchase?
 

2FORCEFULL

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If you spent $200k on a floating garage door, spending a couple grand to make what you have perform better is a bargain.
even with a NASA calculator I can't figure out how they figure the price of those... you can buy 4 single tri toons for cheeper...
 

Blackmagic94

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The 28’ crest dual 400s I rode on for DS ran 21p revolution 4s and honestly his drive was bolted too high as he would get low water pressure alarms if he barely trimmed. But it hauled ass


21.5p Eco props, best kept secret for verados
Jack plates

Fast boat
 

LargeOrangeFont

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even with a NASA calculator I can't figure out how they figure the price of those... you can buy 4 single tri toons for cheeper...
You need to add the LAM factor of 3x into your equation Steve.

For the record, I have 0 problems with them, it is just amusing watching people trying to make a pleasure craft as fast as possible only to cruise at 45-50 MPH everywhere because 0 people are enjoying themselves going above 60 on a pontoon boat anyway.
 

2FORCEFULL

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two words that should not be used when talking toons fast and speed,.. you check GPS to see how slow it goes,.. and if you do something you say it was 2 mph slower before I changed the prop, took out all the seats and raised the motors...
 

2FORCEFULL

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The 28’ crest dual 400s I rode on for DS ran 21p revolution 4s and honestly his drive was bolted too high as he would get low water pressure alarms if he barely trimmed. But it hauled ass


21.5p Eco props, best kept secret for verados
Jack plates

Fast boat
how slow did it go top end wot????
 

Desert Whaler

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I love that this thread is about eeking-out a few more mph out of a spendy 'family-toon' .
I don't feel so bad now ! 😆
 
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Blackmagic94

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how slow did it go top end wot????
6200 rpm and 71 mph. It pulled pretty dang hard rolling on the throttle at mid range. But like I said he couldn’t trim out at all. He knows it’s to high and they are going to adjust down. Brand new shop rig so they need to make adjustments
 

GT2toon

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Dave, first time posting here but have been following the site for a long time. We have the exact same boat, raised the motors to the second from last hole. With 4 people, half a tank of fuel, cooler, and only the rear bimini it runs 68 mph on the rev limiter with the same rev 4 19’s. That is with the trim neutral (11 on the digital display).
 

2FORCEFULL

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6200 rpm and 71 mph. It pulled pretty dang hard rolling on the throttle at mid range. But like I said he couldn’t trim out at all. He knows it’s to high and they are going to adjust down. Brand new shop rig so they need to make adjustments
SUM TING WONG.......LOL.... THATS -1% SLIP!!!!... with 10% slip you are at 63 mph...even at 8% thats only 65 mph.....
 

2FORCEFULL

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Dave, first time posting here but have been following the site for a long time. We have the exact same boat, raised the motors to the second from last hole. With 4 people, half a tank of fuel, cooler, and only the rear bimini it runs 68 mph on the rev limiter with the same rev 4 19’s. That is with the trim neutral (11 on the digital display).
that's 6 % slip... and i'm asuming gps speedo...not at all saying It didn't happen,.. as your number are possible... I got single digit slip numbers out of my godfrey, just saying what the slip was, I'm assuming that twin motor tri tunes are really more efficient then most will believe... my godfrey used 17 gals of fuel going from windsor to avi and back,,,, that to me was unbelievable..... So,... what I would do if I was dave would be just raise the motors and give it a try...thanks for posting, did you raise the motors, or did it come that way???

also,... if you could spin a 21p,... you'd be at 50mph , only 4800 rpms.. and 6800 rpms would get you in the 70's @ 8% slip.. with a 19p you'd have to be a 0 slip to see 71 mph
 
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2FORCEFULL

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I love that this thread is about eeking-out a few more mph out of a spendy 'family-toon' .
I don't feel so bad now ! 😆
as I type there are people trying to make more efficient toilets, evolution
 
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2FORCEFULL

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as for me, I don't wanna make my toon faster,.. I want it to go as fast as they made it...
 

GT2toon

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that's 6 % slip... and i'm asuming gps speedo...not at all saying It didn't happen,.. as your number are possible... I got single digit slip numbers out of my godfrey, just saying what the slip was, I'm assuming that twin motor tri tunes are really more efficient then most will believe... my godfrey used 17 gals of fuel going from windsor to avi and back,,,, that to me was unbelievable..... So,... what I would do if I was dave would be just raise the motors and give it a try...thanks for posting, did you raise the motors, or did it come that way???

also,... if you could spin a 21p,... you'd be at 50mph , only 4800 rpms.. and 6800 rpms would get you in the 70's @ 8% slip.. with a 19p you'd have to be a 0 slip to see 71 mph
This was GPS on the Garmin and factory display, I was surprised with the 6% slip number as well. We raised the motors, from the factory they were set as low as possible. Also, this was only 3 weeks ago and the temp was in the high 80’s. With 6-8 people on board and summer temps it will only turn 6500-6600 and speeds in the low 60’s.

Our normal cruising speed is 5000 rpms 46-48 mph and usually burn 35-38 gallons round trip from Windsor to the needles bridge.
 

RiverDave

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The 28’ crest dual 400s I rode on for DS ran 21p revolution 4s and honestly his drive was bolted too high as he would get low water pressure alarms if he barely trimmed. But it hauled ass


21.5p Eco props, best kept secret for verados
Jack plates

Fast boat
Eco props?
 

RiverDave

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Dave, first time posting here but have been following the site for a long time. We have the exact same boat, raised the motors to the second from last hole. With 4 people, half a tank of fuel, cooler, and only the rear bimini it runs 68 mph on the rev limiter with the same rev 4 19’s. That is with the trim neutral (11 on the digital display).
Great information!!
 

HavaToon

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Blackmagic94

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Eco props?



I got my bro in law to swap them on one of his boats in Alaska and it picked up like 3-4 mph cruise rpm which resulted in bigger range and for him a huge cost savings during the lodge season. He runs the standard but their are merc racing variants
 

Flying_Lavey

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@Flying_Lavey these lowers do have pick ups in the front of the bullet btw.. we will have to block off the upper holes if we start raising the motors to prevent them from sucking air..
Yup. Probably just the top 4 holes. They don't look as low as most toons I've seen. I'm thinking you'd only need to go up 1 or 2 bolt holes to allow that prop to start grabbing some air.
 

RCDave

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All this talk about making a toon run its fastest is pretty funny to me.

I'd be concentrating on the best prop / height for cruising/carrying load/efficiency. its a floating Suburban not a sports car. HAH
 
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