WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

So how much did this t shirt cost me? DUI checkpoint question

DWC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
6,245
Reaction score
9,707
Yea. That was my whole point of posting. If it was really about safety and education, it would be done on the way out.
If it was about safety they’d check before you launch. Check to make sure you have enough vests, horn, throw cushion or even how to secure your kids vest before a day on the water. I don’t know, maybe even a weather warning for high winds coming. It’s complete BS. They’d rather play gotcha.
 

GRADS

Don't Care
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
18,639
Reaction score
22,466
I wish they would also do a boating license check (California) and insurance check just like driving a car. And I realize insurance isn't required but it should be.
 
Last edited:

lbhsbz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Messages
7,738
Reaction score
15,220
So yesterday we were on the lake up in Laughlin and they flagged everyone coming off to go through the checkpoint and boater safety check. I wasn’t fall down drunk so was fine for the dui part. Had the kiddo in a vest so he got this t short. Had enough vests, fire extinguisher and everything except the throwable life safety device.
Thought it would be a fine and when I asked how much it was, they said i have to call the court. Can anyone give me the low down on this bs?

View attachment 1010709 View attachment 1010710
I’d have demonstrated how you can throw a life jacket, thus making it qualify as a throwable flotation device.
 

BoatCop

Retired And Loving It.
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
6,003
Yea. That was my whole point of posting. If it was really about safety and education, it would be done on the way out.
Can you imagine the tie-up at the ramp inspecting every boat. Even at 5 minutes or less per check, the lines to the ramp, not to mention people's attitudes, would be insane.

Plus, this would exempt those people with their own docks or ramps from complying with the boating laws, including drunk boater laws, as they'd never be checked.

And while safety is the primary reason for these stops, deterring drunk boating is a bonus. And a sober operator IS a safety feature that they're checking for.
 

HALLETT BOY

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
4,951
Reaction score
5,001
I could be mistaken here but if my understanding of it is correct participation in one of these dui/oui check points is completely voluntary..

They are “asking” you to come in and get checked out..
I said : No thank you , I’m only here to get gas , one time at Cottonwood . Continued on to gas pump , you should’ve seen the hustle to get to me at the pump .
 

dezrtracer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
1,427
Reaction score
1,166
I could be mistaken here but if my understanding of it is correct participation in one of these dui/oui check points is completely voluntary..

They are “asking” you to come in and get checked out..
I got told to pull over not asked last summer . First thing I said was " lets get the party started get the breathalyzer " the two clowns were not too impressed . Had all Safety gear and he said get the hell out of here 🤪
 

grumpy88

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Messages
4,293
Reaction score
4,546
Can you imagine the tie-up at the ramp inspecting every boat. Even at 5 minutes or less per check, the lines to the ramp, not to mention people's attitudes, would be insane.

Plus, this would exempt those people with their own docks or ramps from complying with the boating laws, including drunk boater laws, as they'd never be checked.

And while safety is the primary reason for these stops, deterring drunk boating is a bonus. And a sober operator IS a safety feature that they're checking for.
Good thing they dont bottle up the highway trying to stop the transport of a mussle that has already taken over all of southern California water ways ! Sell that else ware . Its about collecting the big check with dui bust .
 

77charger

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
3,533
Reaction score
2,616
Im just glad i didnt get stooped riding my jet ski on parker yesterday definite no fire extinguisher ticket.And pop could have written the other hundreds of them too.LOLBut i didnt drink so wastn worried about being stopped
 

CoolCruzin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2008
Messages
2,753
Reaction score
1,782
After reading all this on safety equipment.
I haven’t seen my fire extinguisher lately.
( not that I look for it as lot)
Hell if the boat has a fire started I think I will have everyone jump off and swim.
Hell is it up front -left side , right side .
I going to have to check all my stuff and make sure I’m good .
and if I don’t have something what happen to it .
 

rrrr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
10,474
Reaction score
17,966
throwable life safety device??? I gotta have one???
This is why boater education classes are a good idea. Apparently some boaters don't read the boating laws pamphlets that are sent out with registration renewals.
 

Javajoe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
933
Reaction score
1,691
After reading all this on safety equipment.
I haven’t seen my fire extinguisher lately.
( not that I look for it as lot)
Hell if the boat has a fire started I think I will have everyone jump off and swim.
Hell is it up front -left side , right side .
I going to have to check all my stuff and make sure I’m good .
and if I don’t have something what happen to it .
Bought my boat 6 months ago. Checked my Fire Extinguishers last week and they are years old but say charged. So I figured I would replace them. I took the old ones out and neither would spray anything at all. Glad I changed them.
 

LC925

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
527
Reaction score
721
Funny you say that. In my wife’s last ski boat, as well as her new one, I sit on the throwable. It put me just above the windshield for a better sight line.
Ha, I do that now to put my line of sight just over the passengers that ride on the bow.
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,304
Reaction score
11,862
Regardless if it's USCG, AZ G&F, CA --- the regulations for PFDs and Throwable floatation devices use the terms " Readily Available" and " Readily Accessible".
Since neither are specifying distance, time or exact actions required to acquire said items, their actual accessibility is open to interpretation by operators and law enforcement who don't always agree.

In this thread I read that apparently a boat owner was instructed by LEO that for a throwable to be considered " Readily Accessible" it should be within arms reach of the driver. If that's true, why don't the regulations stipulate that ?
I've read on a Minnesota LEO blog, where their officers considered PFDs readily accessible even in an unlocked locker so long as they weren't still in their original packages. They didn't mention the throwable, but since PFD requirements often use BOTH terms, " Readily Available" and " Readily Accessible", are the definitions different for each ?
I always considered that the term allowed for PFDs and a throwable if it was easily accessed in a below seat storage hold or similar "Easily Accessed" locker. Where on boats is this special Throwable holder that will allow it to remain within arms reach of the driver ?

I've had this discussion with the very helpful and safety conscious USCG Auxiliary, this after having one inspection and receiving my sticker, the following year the volunteer inspection took exception to the same location. When I requested to view the exact ruling, I was simply read " Readily Available" -- thanks a lot, really helpful.

In similar fashion, the National Electrical Code uses the term "Readily Accessible" but it obviously means something entirely different.
Yet, it's another ambiguous term that is often a source of disagreement between contractors and inspectors.

So Mr happily retired Boat Cop, should you read this, or any one of the other of the hundreds of LEO apparently on RDP ( 😁), can anyone offer a specific definition of these terms as they apply to maritime regulations ?

I'd like to have the exact definitions laminated to carry onboard with me, just in case I'm told that " Readily Accessible" means I need to be holding it all the time.
 

RogerThat99

Parker Is Now OPEN
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
10,657
Reaction score
5,571
I always wondered where the throwable has to be in the boat? Within drivers reach?
Yes, it has to be in arms reach of the driver.

I almost got a ticket once for that. The towable was about 12" out of my reach. I had all the safety gear, so they told me to move the throwable closer to me, and let me go.

Sent Using Tapatalk
 

WhatExit?

Well-Known Inmate #'s 2584 & 20161
Joined
Jul 19, 2017
Messages
11,783
Reaction score
23,927
"Throwable devices must be immediately available for use such as in the cockpit or near the helm"
per https://www.boatus.org/life-jackets/

"in the cockpit or near the helm" - what is the definition of cockpit and where is "near" the helm?
 

Joker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
17,709
Reaction score
10,003
Fuck that lake and their safety checkpoint bullshit. You’re lucky they didn’t make you walk the line of spilled grease behind the restaurant.
 

MK1MOD0

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2019
Messages
1,776
Reaction score
2,900
Can you imagine the tie-up at the ramp inspecting every boat. Even at 5 minutes or less per check, the lines to the ramp, not to mention people's attitudes, would be insane.

Plus, this would exempt those people with their own docks or ramps from complying with the boating laws, including drunk boater laws, as they'd never be checked.

And while safety is the primary reason for these stops, deterring drunk boating is a bonus. And a sober operator IS a safety feature that they're checking for.

They do it at the ramps in SAn Diego during the summer and big holidays . It’s not mandatory, and not all boats do it. Never seems to back anything up when I’ve seen it.
 

Jed-O

Shitter was full!
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
3,014
Reaction score
3,560
Regardless if it's USCG, AZ G&F, CA --- the regulations for PFDs and Throwable floatation devices use the terms " Readily Available" and " Readily Accessible".
Since neither are specifying distance, time or exact actions required to acquire said items, their actual accessibility is open to interpretation by operators and law enforcement who don't always agree.

In this thread I read that apparently a boat owner was instructed by LEO that for a throwable to be considered " Readily Accessible" it should be within arms reach of the driver. If that's true, why don't the regulations stipulate that ?
I've read on a Minnesota LEO blog, where their officers considered PFDs readily accessible even in an unlocked locker so long as they weren't still in their original packages. They didn't mention the throwable, but since PFD requirements often use BOTH terms, " Readily Available" and " Readily Accessible", are the definitions different for each ?
I always considered that the term allowed for PFDs and a throwable if it was easily accessed in a below seat storage hold or similar "Easily Accessed" locker. Where on boats is this special Throwable holder that will allow it to remain within arms reach of the driver ?

I've had this discussion with the very helpful and safety conscious USCG Auxiliary, this after having one inspection and receiving my sticker, the following year the volunteer inspection took exception to the same location. When I requested to view the exact ruling, I was simply read " Readily Available" -- thanks a lot, really helpful.

In similar fashion, the National Electrical Code uses the term "Readily Accessible" but it obviously means something entirely different.
Yet, it's another ambiguous term that is often a source of disagreement between contractors and inspectors.

So Mr happily retired Boat Cop, should you read this, or any one of the other of the hundreds of LEO apparently on RDP ( 😁), can anyone offer a specific definition of these terms as they apply to maritime regulations ?

I'd like to have the exact definitions laminated to carry onboard with me, just in case I'm told that " Readily Accessible" means I need to be holding it all the time.
Driver must clench throwable PFD with ass cheeks at all times while underway 🤣
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,304
Reaction score
11,862
"Throwable devices must be immediately available for use such as in the cockpit or near the helm"
per https://www.boatus.org/life-jackets/

"in the cockpit or near the helm" - what is the definition of cockpit and where is "near" the helm?
Wonder where you found that ? --- here's the quote from the link you provided ---
"Each state may have additional wear requirements, such as for water skiing, personal watercraft operation, white water boating activities and during certain cool-weather months. Additionally, a boat 16’ in length or greater, except canoes and kayaks) must have a throwable flotation device. See specific state requirements for life jackets."

Where does it state cockpit or near the helm ?

When I followed the Boat US link to AZ on the map, it listed PFD requirements.

What I'm trying to find is not some boater ed course, I want to read the AZ law or AZ F&G rules applying to throwables and their location.
I want to read " Helm or Cockpit" or EXACTLY what it states.
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,304
Reaction score
11,862
Can you imagine the tie-up at the ramp inspecting every boat. Even at 5 minutes or less per check, the lines to the ramp, not to mention people's attitudes, would be insane.

Plus, this would exempt those people with their own docks or ramps from complying with the boating laws, including drunk boater laws, as they'd never be checked.

And while safety is the primary reason for these stops, deterring drunk boating is a bonus. And a sober operator IS a safety feature that they're checking for.
Mr. BC, I've read the pamphlets, I've read what AZGFD rules and regs I can locate online. I'm trying to find the exact AZ rules and regulations regarding PFDs and Throwables. I can find those rules described in boater ed courses, but I'd prefer to read the actual regulation as written, not an opinion.
I find the commonly used term "Readily accessible" ambiguous and subject to various individual interpretations as it applies to either PFDs or Throwables.
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,304
Reaction score
11,862
Here's the actual 2021 ( And I believe current) AZGFD rules that I can locate online.

From Title 5, Amusement and sports --- Article 4 , Required equipment.
AZGFD --- Rules Art 4.JPG


So this regulation states we must essentially carry such flotation devices as prescribed by the regulations of the Commission. Well that's certainly informative.

Here's what I can located online regarding the Commission regulations regarding PFDs and Throwables. However, it's I believe from 2013, perhaps it's been yet revised again ??

ASGFD 12-04-511-1.JPG


AZGFD Art 12-04-511-2.JPG


Please, where is it stated regarding at the Helm or Cockpit or within Arm's reach of the operator ????
 

gqchris

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
5,948
Reaction score
6,381
The best is when my buddy was stopped on Lake Mojave and they said his fire extinguisher was expired. He pulled the pin and discharged the whole thing towards their boat! Classic line came from him was next..."Nope, looks like it works fine to me!" Holy shit that was epic.

He looks just like a young Rodney Dangerfield which adds to the humor value!

 

BoatCop

Retired And Loving It.
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
6,003
Regardless if it's USCG, AZ G&F, CA --- the regulations for PFDs and Throwable floatation devices use the terms " Readily Available" and " Readily Accessible".
Since neither are specifying distance, time or exact actions required to acquire said items, their actual accessibility is open to interpretation by operators and law enforcement who don't always agree.

In this thread I read that apparently a boat owner was instructed by LEO that for a throwable to be considered " Readily Accessible" it should be within arms reach of the driver. If that's true, why don't the regulations stipulate that ?
I've read on a Minnesota LEO blog, where their officers considered PFDs readily accessible even in an unlocked locker so long as they weren't still in their original packages. They didn't mention the throwable, but since PFD requirements often use BOTH terms, " Readily Available" and " Readily Accessible", are the definitions different for each ?
I always considered that the term allowed for PFDs and a throwable if it was easily accessed in a below seat storage hold or similar "Easily Accessed" locker. Where on boats is this special Throwable holder that will allow it to remain within arms reach of the driver ?

I've had this discussion with the very helpful and safety conscious USCG Auxiliary, this after having one inspection and receiving my sticker, the following year the volunteer inspection took exception to the same location. When I requested to view the exact ruling, I was simply read " Readily Available" -- thanks a lot, really helpful.

In similar fashion, the National Electrical Code uses the term "Readily Accessible" but it obviously means something entirely different.
Yet, it's another ambiguous term that is often a source of disagreement between contractors and inspectors.

So Mr happily retired Boat Cop, should you read this, or any one of the other of the hundreds of LEO apparently on RDP ( 😁), can anyone offer a specific definition of these terms as they apply to maritime regulations ?

I'd like to have the exact definitions laminated to carry onboard with me, just in case I'm told that " Readily Accessible" means I need to be holding it all the time.

Actually, only the Type IV throwable has to be "Immediately Available", while wearable PFDs and Fire Extinguisher have to be "Readily Accessible".

"Readily Accessible" means that they can be obtained with a minimum of interference. Opening a compartment to grab them would comply. Opening a compartment and having to move the ice-chest, skis, picnic basket, wakeboard, anchor, towline, dog, etc. would not. Not knowing where they are located and having to search throughout the boat also would not.

"Immediately Available" means that one can grab and throw. Which is why it's the only thing that must be "Immediately Available".
 

BoatCop

Retired And Loving It.
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
6,003
Wonder where you found that ? --- here's the quote from the link you provided ---
"Each state may have additional wear requirements, such as for water skiing, personal watercraft operation, white water boating activities and during certain cool-weather months. Additionally, a boat 16’ in length or greater, except canoes and kayaks) must have a throwable flotation device. See specific state requirements for life jackets."

Where does it state cockpit or near the helm ?

When I followed the Boat US link to AZ on the map, it listed PFD requirements.

What I'm trying to find is not some boater ed course, I want to read the AZ law or AZ F&G rules applying to throwables and their location.
I want to read " Helm or Cockpit" or EXACTLY what it states.
Arizona State Law

5-331. Personal flotation devices; requirements;
exception
A. All watercraft, except sailboards, shall carry United
States coast guard approved personal flotation devices of the
type and category prescribed by regulations of the
commission. There shall be one such device in good and
serviceable condition for each person on board and so placed
as to be readily accessible for immediate use.
 

BoatCop

Retired And Loving It.
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
6,003
Federal Law:


33 CFR* § 175.19 - Stowage.

§ 175.19 Stowage.

(a) No person may use a recreational boat unless each wearable PFD required by § 175.15 is readily accessible.

(b) No person may use a recreational boat unless each throwable PFD required by § 175.15 is immediately available.

* CFR = Code of Federal Regulations
 

BoatCop

Retired And Loving It.
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
6,003
You have to remember that I took my first Boating Safety Enforcement course in 1975, as a new, young Coast Guard Petty Officer. 2 years later I attended the comprehensive 8 week US Coast Guard "National Boating Safety School" and was assigned to a purposeful Boating Safety Enforcement Unit, where our main duties were (duh) Boating Safety Enforcement. One of our other duties was teaching Boating Safety Federal Regulations to other Coast Guard Boarding Officers, and State Boating Safety Officers. Over my 3 year (1978-1981) stint in that assignment, in addition to USCG Officers, I taught Boating Safety to National Park Rangers at Mead, Mohave and Powell, Ventura, Santa Barbara, and Channel Islands Harbor Masters, and Rangers at Lake(s) Casitas and Castaic. My area of operation, in addition to the Coastal Harbors mentioned, was Lakes Mead, Mohave (including the Laughlin/BHC areas) and Powell. I was permanently assigned to the Parker Dam Station in 1979, patrolling Lake Havasu, Parker Strip and the Lower River, decommissioning the Unit in May, 1981. During other assignments, I used those skills in boarding Oil Tankers and Barges on the Delaware River and Bay, Inspecting Fishing and crab boats in Alaskan and Hawaiian waters, and interdicting drug boats off the Southern California and Mexico Coast.

After I left the Coast Guard in 1987, I hired on with the La Paz Sheriff's Office Boating Safety Unit. After I became Arizona Instructor Certified, I taught the Arizona Game and Fish Watercraft Enforcement Course, and participated in expanding the class from 1 to 2 weeks. I was with La Paz, as Boating Deputy, Patrol Deputy, Patrol Sergeant (1997), Boating Division Sergeant (1999) and Boating Division Lieutenant (2007) until my retirement in May 2015.

I stayed with the Coast Guard Reserve and the USCG Colorado River Patrol until I realized I had to do more, Coast Guard Engineering-wise, than changing lower unit oil, to advance my CG career. In 1993 I transferred to the USCG Naval Engineering Branch at Sector San Diego, and later the High Endurance Cutter and Patrol Boat Maintenance Team at the 32nd St Naval Station. I retired from the Coast Guard in 2002.

In addition to the LE side, I also investigated too many boating collisions, mishaps and accidents to even remember. I was recognized and certified as an expert witness by California and Arizona Courts in Vessel Navigation Rules and Boating Accidents.

I only put all of this up to show that I actually DO know what I'm talking about. While some might look at Boating/Marine Enforcement as a bullet point on a resume, I fucking walked, talked, ate, lived, and breathed it for my entire adult working life. I never cared about citations. I probably wrote fewer over my many years with the SO, than some do in 1 or 2 years. Most things can be managed with a warning, and those that really deserved a ticket, got one. Somewhere, along about the time I retired, my former Department decided that they were going to concentrate on "Stats" as they called it. Even giving awards to those with the best "Stats", and discipline on those with the lowest. In that case, "Stats" was code for "Quotas". In all my years, the only "stat" that I was ever concerned with was accidents. The only time I ever even counted citations or warnings was when submitting annual reports to the State, in accordance with our grants. (Those numbers did not factor into our level of funding, nor do any Arizona Departments get ANY revenue from ticket fines) The insistence by my superiors for me to push those "Stats" onto my Officers figured prominently into my decision to retire, when I did.
 

warpt71

Lower River Lover
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
2,503
Reaction score
1,626
I know exactly where the throwable is, well, I finally remembered lol. But now have no clue where the fire extinguisher is?!?!?! Crap 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,304
Reaction score
11,862
Federal Law:


33 CFR* § 175.19 - Stowage.

§ 175.19 Stowage.

(a) No person may use a recreational boat unless each wearable PFD required by § 175.15 is readily accessible.

(b) No person may use a recreational boat unless each throwable PFD required by § 175.15 is immediately available.

* CFR = Code of Federal Regulations
Thanks BC, always appreciate your knowledgeable input.
I found the requirements for a Throwable in both Federal and CA regs, but in the AZ Regs, all I found was in R12-4-511 stating the boat needed to be equipped with it. I didn't find anything specifying "Immediately Available" as with the CA and FED regs.
When we had our Sports Fisher in San Diego, it was your typical ring with line, that had it's own mount on the outside of the Salon wall in the cockpit.
 

rrrr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
10,474
Reaction score
17,966
It's not difficult to buy a Type IV throwable and find a place to stow it that meets regulations. It seems this topic comes up every year because someone is indignant for receiving a ticket for not having one on board.

It's not that hard, folks. Play by the rules and tickets don't get issued. You might even use it to save a drowning person. :rolleyes:

I've always carried a weighted throw line on my boats. They're easier to place on target than a Type IV, and can be thrown farther too.



 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,304
Reaction score
11,862
It's not difficult to buy a Type IV throwable and find a place to stow it that meets regulations. It seems this topic comes up every year because someone is indignant for receiving a ticket for not having one on board.

It's not that hard, folks. Play by the rules and tickets don't get issued. You might even use it to save a drowning person. :rolleyes:

I've always carried a weighted throw line on my boats. They're easier to place on target than a Type IV, and can be thrown farther too.



Actual device(s) aside, be they PFDs or Throwable, is the various LEO's and the vessel owner themselves on the interpretation of the terms "Readily Accessible", " Immediately Accessible" (Which apparently mean the same thing) and " Immediately Available".
On larger blue water vessels, there's rarely if ever going to be a throwable within arms length ( As apparently a popular LEO definition) of the skipper, often a deck level and ladder climb below, usually in the cockpit. Yet we apparently have lake LEO instructing or possibly citing operators because they don't " Feel " that their interpretation of Immediately Available has been met.
This goes for "Readily or Immediately Accessible" PFD stowage as well. I've personally received conflicting information from different volunteer USCG Aux safety inspectors.
Mr Boat Cop, Alan, has reasonable interpretations, this can't be said for all LEO looking to make the stat numbers.
I'm guessing that the requirement for throwables only on boats longer than 16' is the assumption that the smaller craft can more quickly come about and maneuver to the swimmer in distress.
 

Water Romper

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2007
Messages
747
Reaction score
1,107
I think this is a good thread- safety on the water should never be taken lightly. I do think there are some "vague" requirements and as mentioned and open for reasonable interpretations.
Knowing there is a Idaho event coming in a few months, below is the Idaho regulations for boating requirements. (doesn't seem to be much different than the Havi requirements)
No mention of "within Reach" "Accessible" or have a line tied to it (throwable)
HOWEVER: the comment below- Some counties have local ordinances more restrictive than state law, contact your local county sheriff's office if you are not familiar with these ordinances before you boat. - Ignorance is no excuse for not knowing the law.

On a small boat like mine (and many others- the 20ft and under group) there is very limited "space" to have cushions, vests, extinguishers etc within reach of the driver, They are all on the boat, but under the seat cushions, under the bow, etc. making sure they are "secured" Having these items by my feet (and the passengers feet) under way is a danger in its self. Ever have vests, towels, hats or what ever rolling/blowing around getting in your way etc while on plane- dangerous and distracting. Always welcome LEO to "come aboard" , they have always been professional and informative, usually a 5 min conversation, answering their questions and providing what ever they wanted to see- then I'm on my way.

Side note- very little mention of alcohol and/or drugs. I found this s a bit odd knowing most boating accidents are DUI related.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for contacting the Idaho Department of Parks and Recreation’s boating program. The boat safety information you requested is below. For additional information or questions visit the Frequently Asked Questions tab at www.boatidaho.gov or contact your local sheriff’s department and speak with a marine deputy.

For your Motorboat 16' or longer here is the list of legally required equipment and additional boating safety information.
Legally required equipment
  • Certificate of Number (boat registration) on board.
  • Coast Guard approved life jacket for each person on board.
  • Current year validation stickers displayed on each side of the vessel (in front.)
  • Fire extinguisher (Coast Guard approved, Type B or Type ABC, and rated for marine use.)
  • Inboard motors need to have a backfire flame arrester (and blower.)
  • Sound producing device (horn or whistle.)
  • A throwable cushion or ring is required on all boats 16' and longer (must be Coast Guard approved.)
Additional boat safety information and boating laws.
  • A red or orange flag (commonly referred to as skier down flag ) is required to be displayed when a person or persons being towed are down in the water. The flag must be at least one foot square.
  • Do not exceed the capacity of the boat (count the people being towed as well as the people in the boat.)
  • Idaho law requires kids 14 years and younger to wear their life jacket on all boats 19' and under, while underway.
  • If the boat is equipped with a marine sanitation device, it must be Coast Guard approved.
  • Properly working and Coast Guard approved navigation lights are required to be displayed between sunset and sunrise, and periods of restricted visibility.
  • Towing can only be legally done if a competent observer is present on the boat in addition to the operator.
Life jackets must be approved by the U.S. Coast Guard, be in good condition, be properly sized for each person, and be readily accessible.

Idaho Department of Parks and Recreation recommends that all boaters take a boating safety class. A list of classes and additional on-line options can be found at www.boatidaho.gov .

For additional questions or to request a boat inspection contact your local county sheriff's office.

Some counties have local ordinances more restrictive than state law, contact your local county sheriff's office if you are not familiar with these ordinances before you boat.

All boat accidents that involve a missing person, injury beyond first aid, and/or damage in excess of $1,500 must be reported to the sheriff's office - no exceptions!

Cold water kills! Water temperatures can be very cold even in summer, wear a life jacket to prevent accidental drowning.

Operators are subject to arrest for being under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
 

Taboma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
9,304
Reaction score
11,862
I think this is a good thread- safety on the water should never be taken lightly. I do think there are some "vague" requirements and as mentioned and open for reasonable interpretations.
Knowing there is a Idaho event coming in a few months, below is the Idaho regulations for boating requirements. (doesn't seem to be much different than the Havi requirements)
No mention of "within Reach" "Accessible" or have a line tied to it (throwable)
HOWEVER: the comment below- Some counties have local ordinances more restrictive than state law, contact your local county sheriff's office if you are not familiar with these ordinances before you boat. - Ignorance is no excuse for not knowing the law.

On a small boat like mine (and many others- the 20ft and under group) there is very limited "space" to have cushions, vests, extinguishers etc within reach of the driver, They are all on the boat, but under the seat cushions, under the bow, etc. making sure they are "secured" Having these items by my feet (and the passengers feet) under way is a danger in its self. Ever have vests, towels, hats or what ever rolling/blowing around getting in your way etc while on plane- dangerous and distracting. Always welcome LEO to "come aboard" , they have always been professional and informative, usually a 5 min conversation, answering their questions and providing what ever they wanted to see- then I'm on my way.

Side note- very little mention of alcohol and/or drugs. I found this s a bit odd knowing most boating accidents are DUI related.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for contacting the Idaho Department of Parks and Recreation’s boating program. The boat safety information you requested is below. For additional information or questions visit the Frequently Asked Questions tab at www.boatidaho.gov or contact your local sheriff’s department and speak with a marine deputy.

For your Motorboat 16' or longer here is the list of legally required equipment and additional boating safety information.
Legally required equipment
  • Certificate of Number (boat registration) on board.
  • Coast Guard approved life jacket for each person on board.
  • Current year validation stickers displayed on each side of the vessel (in front.)
  • Fire extinguisher (Coast Guard approved, Type B or Type ABC, and rated for marine use.)
  • Inboard motors need to have a backfire flame arrester (and blower.)
  • Sound producing device (horn or whistle.)
  • A throwable cushion or ring is required on all boats 16' and longer (must be Coast Guard approved.)
Additional boat safety information and boating laws.
  • A red or orange flag (commonly referred to as skier down flag ) is required to be displayed when a person or persons being towed are down in the water. The flag must be at least one foot square.
  • Do not exceed the capacity of the boat (count the people being towed as well as the people in the boat.)
  • Idaho law requires kids 14 years and younger to wear their life jacket on all boats 19' and under, while underway.
  • If the boat is equipped with a marine sanitation device, it must be Coast Guard approved.
  • Properly working and Coast Guard approved navigation lights are required to be displayed between sunset and sunrise, and periods of restricted visibility.
  • Towing can only be legally done if a competent observer is present on the boat in addition to the operator.
Life jackets must be approved by the U.S. Coast Guard, be in good condition, be properly sized for each person, and be readily accessible.

Idaho Department of Parks and Recreation recommends that all boaters take a boating safety class. A list of classes and additional on-line options can be found at www.boatidaho.gov .

For additional questions or to request a boat inspection contact your local county sheriff's office.

Some counties have local ordinances more restrictive than state law, contact your local county sheriff's office if you are not familiar with these ordinances before you boat.

All boat accidents that involve a missing person, injury beyond first aid, and/or damage in excess of $1,500 must be reported to the sheriff's office - no exceptions!

Cold water kills! Water temperatures can be very cold even in summer, wear a life jacket to prevent accidental drowning.

Operators are subject to arrest for being under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
I agree 100%. Items can certainly be reasonable immediately accessible and or available, while being properly secured and stored. How many high performance, 100 mph or plus boats have things just lying about within arm's reach ?
Personally, in my 26 years at and on Lake Havasu, I've never been part of any of these checkpoint "Safety Stops". I've seen them in progress however, with the cops on pwcs running around the area rounding up any and all boaters who enter. I don't boat on weekends, ever, so encountering LEO on the lake is rare.
My only encounter with a SBSO leo was when I was trying to report an obstruction buoy that had drifted from Site 6, across the lake into the back of a bay.
As I approached to advise him that now the reef in front of Site 6 wasn't marked --- he started yelling at me because he'd observed me ride behind it on my PWC as I was checking it out. He wouldn't stop berating me long enough to listen, kept claiming there was a hidden rock back there behind it and wouldn't listen when I explained to rest assured, there wasn't, there's nothing there but deep water as there had been for the previous 15 years I'd ridden back there.
Finally, I just gave up, apologized, thanked him for warning me and rode off. A while later I watched him motor over there and check it out, the next morning it got put back in it's rightly location. Obviously, not all Boat Cops are like our RDP Boat Cop.
Back in the day, I tend to think getting boat duty was like winning a department raffle, win a chance to spend the day on the lake and check out the honeys.

In San Diego when the USCG boarded for a "Safety Inspection" it meant they were looking for drugs. If you had the required equipment, nobody quibbled over exactly where it was stowed so long as it wasn't inaccessible, that wasn't why they were really onboard.
 

Gonefishin5555

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Messages
132
Reaction score
130
Ask the questions “Safety first? power hungry first? or money grab first?

I say all 3!

as I’m idling through the “No Wake zone, going against the current In a big v-drive trying to keep it idling through at a v- drive speed, good ol’ “Barney Fife and Andy” to the Fire!

🤣hiding behind a rock, actually floor their patrol boat with the fucn siren on like we are moven wetbacks across the lower river like a few weeks ago🤣

My girlfriend said WTF did we do🤔
I don’t fucn know, but it must be something bad!
Thinking - I Might chewed up an endangered fish or ran over a kayaker or something?

Fucn Barney Banged into my boat as he try’s to board, yelling about the “No Wake Zone”
I was making a wake!!!

My and my girl look at each other and we were speechless at first.....

I laughed and said that’s the slowest this big tub goes, the laws musta been written by a swimmer not a boater!

I was in fact making a small wake as my boat doesn’t go any slower

After all said and done, 27 mins later, with every search under the fucking book to waste even more of my precious family time, the only thing Barney didn’t do was ask for a spread and cough!🤬 the meter maid gave me a chicken shit ticket for having a “Non Coast Guard approved Life Vest”

I tried to fight it twice, between video (yes they video all incidents) I still had to pay, it’s Fedral Court, yes I had a “non” that is the ticket👍

Good $130 lesson in the end, I had no idea 1 of the Life vests that were on board at the time, weren’t Certified” ?

Now I double check all safety devices and equipment before all outings

Would of been the right thing to give us a warning, instead of the usual Cop routine.

“I’m doing you a favor by only writing you up for this 1 little infraction”

CHICKEN SHIT MONEY GRAB COCKSUCKERS!!!

Fuck You if your reading this! 🤬
I know some wakesurfing vests are non approved so just carry an extra approved vest? The non approved doesn’t count for your total on the boat but having it on the boat by itself doesn’t cause you to get ticketed
 

Qwiketz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2020
Messages
72
Reaction score
21
What’s the rule on infants as far as life jackets? I’m talking 6 month olds and stuff like that? I had a toddler sized jacket but it didn’t nearly fit.
 

Shrub Lurker

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2018
Messages
809
Reaction score
634
we were out since Thursday and I didn't see one cop on water anywhere. I mentioned it to a buddy of mine and jinxed my ass.

They literally had every cop on the water in the whole state there on Saturday. There were probably about 40 of them there. I officer that I was initially dealing with was from the Yuma squad. They were working about 10 docks and they were about full constantly as people came in to dock or load. They had about 6 guys on sea doos flagging us in and corralling people into spots.

Yes, there was some silver lining there. I have a 6 month old and the vest we "had" for him probably went down to his knees so I don't know what protocol on that was/is and I still don't. That was kind of a monkey in the room if anything. I wasn't drinking so there's that too.

I'm very curious how other people fared. We had our stuff pretty much together, were dead sober and only had 4 of us on a 25' boat. I'm curious how the 18' bayliner with about 14 adults and kids fared. They were pulling in after us. Or, the pontoon boaters that were really getting after it next to us that decided that playing and yelling 2 Live Crew "we want some p........" in front of a bunch of kids was a great idea.

I absolutely wasn't the only one. Well, maybe I'll say $50 for the shirt and $75 for the throwable device?! They did give me one of those which actually fit nice under the captains chair.

I want some p””””
 

Brobee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Messages
402
Reaction score
762
What’s the rule on infants as far as life jackets? I’m talking 6 month olds and stuff like that? I had a toddler sized jacket but it didn’t nearly fit.
IMG_2193.jpg


This is the one we used when the boys were little. He’s about 5 months in this picture. Im almost positive it’s hanging in the Havasu garage and if we’re both out at the same time you’re welcome to it. I got it at Costco.

When we were just floating or putting around we didn’t have it on and put him in his car seat/carrier deal. But whenever I was on plane he had it on and in mommas arms. I’m pretty sure the law is ANYONE under 12 at all times but you know your own circumstances.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:

BoatCop

Retired And Loving It.
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
6,003
Actual device(s) aside, be they PFDs or Throwable, is the various LEO's and the vessel owner themselves on the interpretation of the terms "Readily Accessible", " Immediately Accessible" (Which apparently mean the same thing) and " Immediately Available".
On larger blue water vessels, there's rarely if ever going to be a throwable within arms length ( As apparently a popular LEO definition) of the skipper, often a deck level and ladder climb below, usually in the cockpit. Yet we apparently have lake LEO instructing or possibly citing operators because they don't " Feel " that their interpretation of Immediately Available has been met.
This goes for "Readily or Immediately Accessible" PFD stowage as well. I've personally received conflicting information from different volunteer USCG Aux safety inspectors.
Mr Boat Cop, Alan, has reasonable interpretations, this can't be said for all LEO looking to make the stat numbers.
I'm guessing that the requirement for throwables only on boats longer than 16' is the assumption that the smaller craft can more quickly come about and maneuver to the swimmer in distress.
The theory regarding Class A boats (16' and under), kayaks and canoes, is that they would generally be closer to shore and able to self-save to shore. Up until (I think) the late '80s, a Type IV throwable would be sufficient for Class A (16' and under) vessels. Not one extra for the boat, but it could be counted as the per-person PFD. That was changed to a wearable PFD for each person.

Regarding PFDs, this was the one violation that I would almost always cite for. Not the inaccessible deal, but if they didn't have enough on board, or not proper size for children, or no child PFD. Years ago, I obtained a $20,000 grant for give-away stuff. I spent most of it on child and infant PFDs, plus Game and Fish gave us a dozen or so cases of Type IV throwables. Along with the citation, I'd give them a new PFD to make sure they were safe. Especially for the kids. They usually had them back at the house or dock (or so they said) and asked where to turn them in later. I always told them to hang on to them and just pass them along to someone that might not have one. I also got us approved for a PFD Loaner Site, so people could come by the office and "check-out" a PFD if they were short one or two.
 

BoatCop

Retired And Loving It.
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
6,003
View attachment 1011554

This is the one we used when the boys were little. He’s about 5 months in this picture. Im almost positive it’s hanging in the Havasu garage and if we’re both out at the same time you’re welcome to it. I got it at Costco.

When we were just floating or putting around we didn’t have it on and put him in his car seat/carrier deal. But whenever I was on plane he had it on and in mommas arms. I’m pretty sure the law is ANYONE under 12 at all times but you know your own circumstances.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For children it's 12 and under. Think of it, as when they become teenagers and know everything, they can take them off. At least that was the line I gave them. I also told them that if "Mom's Law" required they wear it until they're 15 or 16 or 18, that superseded ours. (but not younger). My son knew how to swim before he could walk, and was swimming competitively before he was 8. HE didn't like it, but I made him wear it until he was 13, just like everyone else.

PFDs are required to be worn whenever the vessel is underway. They must be properly sized for the child, and worn per the manufacturer's instructions, with all zippers, clasps, buckles, ties, etc. fastened. The size requirement is the most important. A kid in an adult PFD, or one too big for them, will slide right out of it.

UNDERWAY is defined as "NOT MOORED, ANCHORED OR AGROUND".

Floating, drifting, putting slowly, etc. is still UNDERWAY. If the boat isn't attached, in some way, with solid ground, the kids are required to have them on.
 
Last edited:

Looking Glass

1 = Well = Known = Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
3,774
Reaction score
5,398
This is why boater education classes are a good idea. Apparently some boaters don't read the boating laws pamphlets that are sent out with registration renewals.

At least make sure they can "Back" the Damn Watercraft down thr Ramp without taking up 3 Lanes.
 
Top