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Solar Power Generation - HA HA HA

WhatExit?

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The solar panel huggers won't talk about yet another issue with daylight power generation...

Solar panel installations are surging in the U.S. and Europe as Western countries seek to cut their reliance on fossil fuels.

But the West faces a conundrum as it installs panels on small rooftops and in sprawling desert arrays: Most of them are produced with energy from carbon-dioxide-belching, coal-burning plants in China.

Concerns are mounting in the U.S. and Europe that the solar industry’s reliance on Chinese coal will create a big increase in emissions in the coming years as manufacturers rapidly scale up production of solar panels to meet demand. That would make the solar industry one of the world’s most prolific polluters, analysts say, undermining some of the emissions reductions achieved from widespread adoption.

For years, China’s low-cost, coal-fired electricity has given the country’s solar-panel manufacturers a competitive advantage, allowing them to dominate global markets.
 

TCHB

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Most people have no clue what it takes to run a power plant and all the issues that come along like congestion, ramp rates, capacity market, energy contracts, start up time, ramp rates, weather restriction, buck/boost Vars and the lust goes on. This is all being sorted out on a daily basis as we move forward with electrical generation. Shoot never imagined that I would have a 300mw battery plant at my station operating as a peaking unit while helping with voltage support.
 

Sleekenuff

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I’m not sure where you are trying to go with this topic? Yes solar panels are created with fossil fuels, so is the majority of the products in your house, vehicles and clothes. That does not mean solar is bad for electrical generation or that any who supports solar is an environmental nazi. The changes made to the industry continue to evolve at a rapid pace. There is not a single renewable that will replace coal from a utility stand point. Now we are seeing rapid growth in battery storage with solar. We have added 400MW of battery to already existing solar sites in Southern CA and that number continues to rise. We are now also looking at hydrogen storage to add to existing gas fired plants. The ISO has its hands full learning to regulate renewables. It’s a beast for sure but in the long run it’s creating a lot of good jobs and is improving the environment.
 

WhatExit?

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I’m not sure where you are trying to go with this topic? Yes solar panels are created with fossil fuels, so is the majority of the products in your house, vehicles and clothes. That does not mean solar is bad for electrical generation or that any who supports solar is an environmental nazi. The changes made to the industry continue to evolve at a rapid pace. There is not a single renewable that will replace coal from a utility stand point. Now we are seeing rapid growth in battery storage with solar. We have added 400MW of battery to already existing solar sites in Southern CA and that number continues to rise. We are now also looking at hydrogen storage to add to existing gas fired plants. The ISO has its hands full learning to regulate renewables. It’s a beast for sure but in the long run it’s creating a lot of good jobs and is improving the environment.
I'm not going anywhere with this topic. The original article was very clear: "the solar industry’s reliance on Chinese coal will create a big increase in emissions in the coming years as manufacturers rapidly scale up production of solar panels to meet demand. That would make the solar industry one of the world’s most prolific polluters, analysts say, undermining some of the emissions reductions achieved from widespread adoption."

And you're talking about batteries...how long before they have to be replaced? And what is the status of the dream/fantasy to recycle the millions of pounds of batteries that will be hitting the dumps?


I have several times that a solar panel will never generate as much power as it took to create it. Does anyone know if this is factual?
Not factual per https://www.google.com/search?q=solar+cell+energy+to+produce+vs+lifetime&oq=solar+cell+energy+to+produce+vs+lifetime&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160.16043j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 

mesquito_creek

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I have several times that a solar panel will never generate as much power as it took to create it. Does anyone know if this is factual?
I know that it costs 20,000 dollars to connect to the grid at my lake house in southern Utah and that I built a fully off grid solar system for 10,000 after the Trump extended tax rebates…
 

Tpltrbl303

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I have several times that a solar panel will never generate as much power as it took to create it. Does anyone know if this is factual?
Generally speaking, removing the Chinese made equipment, it takes about a year to offset the carbon footprint created to manufacture the equipment.

The Chinese tend to be cheap energy gluttons and don’t care. The rules in the US and Europe force the manufacturers to be efficient. Most companies will also force their overseas facilities to adhere to some of the clean air standards as they don’t want the marketing blow back.

Solar is not the answer to all the questions but it’s a start til something better comes along. Batteries are tragic in my opinion when it come to environmental soundness. But once again it’s a push in the right direction.

It’s only a matter of time til some wonder kid in the basement of MIT solves all the negative issues with solar and batteries.


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rrrr

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What pisses me off about solar is that the installations are destroying the desert. The same assholes that believe no effort should be spared to preserve a few hundred small.fish in the delta are OK with covering thousands of acres of pristine environment with these abominations.

If things progress the way it's pointing, in twenty years the Southwest will be covered with solar panels. Species like the horned lizard and barrel cacti will be eliminated, and the green bastards won't care.

I grew up in the Southwest, and to me the desert is a beautiful thing. It's teeming with life, animal and plant species that have adapted to the dry conditions over millions of years. There's nothing more beautiful than the desert after spring rains. The cacti flowers, desert lupines, Mexican poppies, and other wildflowers bloom in abundance.

The Gambel's quail chicks follow their mothers across the sands in swerving lines, and other wildlife comes out to feed on the fresh shoots of desert plant life.

All of this will disappear, and the liberals in cities won't give a damn.

 

rrrr

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It’s only a matter of time til some wonder kid in the basement of MIT solves all the negative issues with solar and batteries.
It was solved over a half century ago. Modern nuclear power plants with computerized process control and redundant safeguards are the answer, and those that oppose it are uneducated fools.

The US Navy has operated hundreds of reactors on ships and submarines, and the crews of twenty year old sailors that oversee them have done so without accident since the early 1960s. The concept of factory prefabricated modular nuclear reactors have been approved for use by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and they are the solution to our power needs.

It is physically impossible replace the amount of thermal electrical generation now in operation with wind and solar power. There isn't enough suitable land to do so. It would require covering every ridgeline, seashore, and desert plain with those abominations, and destroying the environment where they are installed.

The small modular reactor (SMR) technology is a complete change from onsite built reactors, and it will reduce costs and enhance safety. These units are typically less than 300 Mw in size.

There's no getting around the obvious. If the US is serious about ending the use of coal and natural gas to generate power, nuclear is the only option.


The breakdown of power generation sources in the US:

 

WhatExit?

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What pisses me off about solar is that the installations are destroying the desert. The same assholes that believe no effort should be spared to preserve a few hundred small.fish in the delta are OK with covering thousands of acres of pristine environment with these abominations.
Great point. This has always been my issue.

The libtards and their all-knowing politicians will do everything they can to keep me from driving on existing trails across the desert.

But they don't hesitate to approve solar projects that scrape 10" off the top of thousands of square miles of pristine desert lands killing everything that lives there just to put up utility scale solar power projects. And don't even talk about the loss of power transmitting it all those miles...

There's a word for these people - it's not a strong enough word (like "terrorizing" or "horrific") but it's the word: Hypocrites
 

SixD9R

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My take on solar and wind power is I don’t give a shit if someone wants to put solar panels on their roof or a windmill in their yard or drive a Tesla or Prius for that matter. My gripe is that as a taxpayer I’m paying for that shit.

Solar, wind, electric cars buy them if you want, but the economics should be market driven not government tipping the scales.
 
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WhatExit?

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My take on solar and wind power is I don’t give a shit if someone wants to put solar panels on their roof or a windmill in their yard or drive a Tesla or Prius for that matter. My grip is that as a taxpayer I’m paying for that shit.

Solar, wind, electric cars buy them if you want, but the economics should be market driven not government tipping the scales.
The government doesn't understand or care about free markets. THEY are (want to be) the economy. THEY want solar and EVs because it gives them power and $$$. The scumbags in power don't care about their "constituents" and they don't even need our votes anymore since they make their own
 

nowski

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That may appear to be a bald spot on my head but it's not. It's a solar panel for this sex machine. The only thing I lack are government subsidies...
 

Universal Elements

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Great point. This has always been my issue.

The libtards and their all-knowing politicians will do everything they can to keep me from driving on existing trails across the desert.

But they don't hesitate to approve solar projects that scrape 10" off the top of thousands of square miles of pristine desert lands killing everything that lives there just to put up utility scale solar power projects. And don't even talk about the loss of power transmitting it all those miles...

There's a word for these people - it's not a strong enough word (like "terrorizing" or "horrific") but it's the word: Hypocrites
Yep, you will never see them cut down trees in Tahoe to put up solar fields. Even though, a lot of those trees are dead and need to be eliminated.
 

rrrr

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Pine beetles have destroyed tens of millions of trees across the west. This has been happening for over forty years. The dead trees have increased the fuel load in the forests exponentially.

This has been completely ignored by governments. They haven't done a fucking thing to address the issue. Now the forests are burning, and the dead trees are adding to the conflagration and making it impossible to contain the fires.

Still no action. No money for suppression. No money for fire bombers. Instead we are supposed to rely on a hodgepodge of decrepit planes that should have been retired years ago.

The current administration continues the program of ignoring what needs to be fixed, and spending money on ridiculous things like electric school buses.
 
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mash on it

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Pine beetles have destroyed tens of millions of trees across the west. This has been happening for over forty years. The dead trees have increased the fuel load in the forests exponentially.

This has been completely ignored by governments. They haven't done a fucking thing to address the issue. Now the forests are burning, and the dead trees are adding to the conflagration and making it impossible to contain the fires.

Still no action. No money for suppression. No money for fire bombers. Instead we are supposed to rely on a hodgepodge of decrepit planes that should have been retired years ago.

The current administration continues the program of ignoring what needs to be fixed, and spending money on ridiculous things like electric school buses.
You, sir, are misinformed.

Dan'l
 

mash on it

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Really? Look out the window. You'll probably see smoke.
No smoke around me.
They've been logging around Williams the last 4 years. I've watched it.
Several places around Flagstaff, without even venturing off the highway. Also down the I-17 and hwy 180 corridor.
No, i haven't looked into it, just personal observations.

So logging in still around.

Dan'l
 

rrrr

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No smoke around me.
They've been logging around Williams the last 4 years. I've watched it.
Several places around Flagstaff, without even venturing off the highway. Also down the I-17 and hwy 180 corridor.
No, i haven't looked into it, just personal observations.

So logging in still around.

Dan'l
You need to look a little further.

 

mash on it

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This has been completely ignored by governments. They haven't done a fucking thing to address the issue. Now the forests are burning, and the dead trees are adding to the conflagration and making it impossible to contain the fires.
Sorry. I don't live in California.
I know what's going on around my area.

40 million in California, and I have to look further?

Got it.

Dan'l
 

Nanu/Nanu

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Solar is cool much like a lot of things in life. But ask Arizona utility companies why they get paid to take California solar power.

Whats not cool is people who make their living at a power plant that is coal fired have to up root their whole life or just find a new job because of a political agenda. This all could have been phased out over many years, but nope people are expendable and they'll figure it out.
 

Nanu/Nanu

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And @mash on it is correct they've been logging a ton on the kaibab and coconino so much that the lumber mills in Williams are back way up.
 

Nanu/Nanu

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@rrr I think you're mistaking the feds for calfire.

Click this link https://gacc.nifc.gov/swcc/

Then download the imsr report they post how much money each fire is costing and you will see there is no shortage of funds for the feds.

Screenshot_20210803-230155.png
 

nowski

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Windmill Farms coming to a lake near you: Just imagine going to one of your favorite lakes to get away from it all to enjoy the quiet serenity and beautiful landscape, then you notice it's all been compromised by an unsightly windmill farm. It could never happen to my favorite lake you say but it's happened to Lake Latonka in Oklahoma and I'm sure there are others. Thank God our National Parks are Protected but the rest of our Countries Beautiful Landscapes are not...
 

bilz

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Around 30 yeah back a photo in the Times showed a very young boy(asian) in a stream harvesting gold and other metals. The equipment ironically was from City of L A. Boy did that change the way we processed used equipment.( We took off all City identifications)
Nothing's changed with child labor.
 

LazyLavey

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After a bit of research, I'm rather regretting buying a Tesla....

When I want to feel good about it
I have to consider I'm doing my part to reduce the child unemployment rate in some third world countries and probably planted a couple of trees....... somewhere😬
 

pronstar

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After a bit of research, I'm rather regretting buying a Tesla....

When I want to feel good about it
I have to consider I'm doing my part to reduce the child unemployment rate in some third world countries and probably planted a couple of trees....... somewhere
I dunno what you’re going in about…our Tesla takes (2) AA batteries

IMG_7183.jpg



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ltbaney1

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I have several times that a solar panel will never generate as much power as it took to create it. Does anyone know if this is factual?
I have heard the same thing. another one that makes me laugh is a prius has over 100k on it before you buy it, when you factor in all the mileage to put it together, and you can be pretty damn sure none of the transports are "green"
 

oldschool

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It was solved over a half century ago. Modern nuclear power plants with computerized process control and redundant safeguards are the answer, and those that oppose it are uneducated fools.

The US Navy has operated hundreds of reactors on ships and submarines, and the crews of twenty year old sailors that oversee them have done so without accident since the early 1960s. The concept of factory prefabricated modular nuclear reactors have been approved for use by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and they are the solution to our power needs.

It is physically impossible replace the amount of thermal electrical generation now in operation with wind and solar power. There isn't enough suitable land to do so. It would require covering every ridgeline, seashore, and desert plain with those abominations, and destroying the environment where they are installed.

The small modular reactor (SMR) technology is a complete change from onsite built reactors, and it will reduce costs and enhance safety. These units are typically less than 300 Mw in size.

There's no getting around the obvious. If the US is serious about ending the use of coal and natural gas to generate power, nuclear is the only option.


The breakdown of power generation sources in the US:

1000%
 

Nanu/Nanu

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It was solved over a half century ago. Modern nuclear power plants with computerized process control and redundant safeguards are the answer, and those that oppose it are uneducated fools.

The US Navy has operated hundreds of reactors on ships and submarines, and the crews of twenty year old sailors that oversee them have done so without accident since the early 1960s. The concept of factory prefabricated modular nuclear reactors have been approved for use by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and they are the solution to our power needs.

It is physically impossible replace the amount of thermal electrical generation now in operation with wind and solar power. There isn't enough suitable land to do so. It would require covering every ridgeline, seashore, and desert plain with those abominations, and destroying the environment where they are installed.

The small modular reactor (SMR) technology is a complete change from onsite built reactors, and it will reduce costs and enhance safety. These units are typically less than 300 Mw in size.

There's no getting around the obvious. If the US is serious about ending the use of coal and natural gas to generate power, nuclear is the only option.


The breakdown of power generation sources in the US:

Completely agree with nuclear it's badass. I have been on the property at Palo Verde here in AZ. What a cool and unique place.

I am totally on board with more plants like Palo Verde not sure I would feel safe having smaller ones out in the community. But big ones are have a big threat to. I don't know, but I like nuclear
 

pronstar

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Pretty cool nuke tech from China - thorium reactor that needs no cooling water:



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