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Some FACTS on Floyd's death

boatpi

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Those that know me, know I operate on facts, NOT emotion. I have attended hundreds of homicide scenes, deaths involving LE, etc. My experience goes back 40 years. For those that appreciate FACTS, this is a good read.

When I saw the video I noted some really stupid, poorly trained police work. The average person believes he was chocking to death, I did not as he was still able to speak, etc. These cases and any prosecution are always centered around the medical examiners (ME) report, AKA cause of death. There may be several in this case. This is how due process works and prosecutions are formed

I have obtained a copy of the probable cause dec for this criminal complaint. Focus on the initial ME findings. As I suspected asphyxia itself was not the cause. Although I am very familiar with positional asphyxia, at is not believed a contributing case so far, Floyds serious existing heart conditions were.

More to follow when the ME makes a final report. In nearly all of these drugs play a part, including past drug use. That is still to be determined.

 

Turnup

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The 9 minute blood choke exasperated nothing at all, 2 minutes while dead just to make sure.
 

boatpi

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If this is close the final report, and/or if the final ME report notes drugs they will have a very difficult time on any murder conviction. I am not defending anyone here, just attempting to explain the process.

The judge provides jury instructions, discounts or does not allow testimony , evidence, experts, and onwards. One common argument in cases like this are; Could Mr. Floyd died under similar circumstances if he got involved a serious confrontation with another individual on the street. Usually the answer is yes.

A lot of factors will be involved, but the ME report carries heavy weight.

This will all be about expert testimony in the end, just watch.
 

sintax

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But the bottom line is that Chauvin's actions caused Floyd's death.

I'm with this guy....

Say the front of this strip mall is older, it has some structural cracks in it, but its still holding together. Next I come along in my pickup to park, I totally miss the brake and stab the gas and go through the front of the store fucking it alllll up. I cant say "hey bro, did you see those huge cracks, totally not my fault"

Just because there were some pre-existing conditions, it provides zero absolution of what i did.
 

spectras only

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BoatpI, I agree 99% of what you said in your post. Only problem that exist is, no police, well trained or not can assess what medical condition perps like Flloyd had when they detained him. Case in point of the polish visitor at the Vancouver airport, manhandled badly by no less than five officers. They used taser multiple times times on him that ultimately killed him. Flloyd was no angel, but getting killed over a 20 dollar fake check is not justifiable. Even worse, the polish guy's issue was, he didn't speak english and no translator to help. Lot of chinese speaking workers at airports, it wouldn't have happened to a chinese visitor. The cops, like these in the Flloyd's case were just not fit to be cops, period. Sadly, a few bad apples in the force gives a black eye for the rest of decent LE. If you were in the army like I have been, you always see some with the power trip and be aware to avoid to make contact with those assholes. ;)
 

riverroyal

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I cant see the small print....but.
Boat pi are you ok leaking this? Is it leaked or can we all find it?
Dont get your ass in trouble.

Lets say floyd was combative in the car, they pulled him out. Held him down and he had a heart attack due current heart issues. So the option was to leave him in the car? Seriuos question. They pulled him out, not uncommon to subdue him more than a back seat can. Held him, boom heart stops..
Cops didnt know he wss a heart patient or had a dangerous elevate heart rate due to drugs.


I dunno.......this will be interesting
 

cxr

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I'm with this guy....

Say the front of this strip mall is older, it has some structural cracks in it, but its still holding together. Next I come along in my pickup to park, I totally miss the brake and stab the gas and go through the front of the store fucking it alllll up. I cant say "hey bro, did you see those huge cracks, totally not my fault"

Just because there were some pre-existing conditions, it provides zero absolution of what i did.


this is kinda confusing...... not sure if this right on point.
More like if the guy sitting in the strip mall was high on coke and your smashed into and killed him andthen was like the coke killed him, not him being pinned against the wall by my truck
 

Tank

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I was actually surprised When I read the ME report last night that asphyxia did not play a roll at all. You say you didn’t think the knee to the throat would cause that. I saw a corroded hold in place via the knee. And as you obviously know, a corroded hold can be deadly force. In my opinion I dont think it’ll be difficult to get manslaughter on actually all 4. You had 4 grown adults kneeling their full weight on a person for 9 minutes on a person that wasn’t fighting (from all the video I saw). You go from the force necessary to affect an arrest to force likely to kill someone in a matter of a split second. The instant the fight stops, the use of force stops. You go over that point, now the officers are committing a crime. In this case it’s homicide. Whether you’re going through a drug induced medical issue or a pre existing medical issue or a combination of both, putting the full weight of 4 men on a subject cuffed and on the ground That dies is manslaughter. Especially when you add the surrounding circumstances of the time length, and people telling the cops they’re killing him and an off duty EMT yelling she can help him etc. basically, I don’t see the lack of Asphyxiation as cause of death is going to bypass manslaughter AND civil rights conviction.
 

t&y

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If this is close the final report, and/or if the final ME report notes drugs they will have a very difficult time on any murder conviction. I am not defending anyone here, just attempting to explain the process.

The judge provides jury instructions, discounts or does not allow testimony , evidence, experts, and onwards. One common argument in cases like this are; Could Mr. Floyd died under similar circumstances if he got involved a serious confrontation with another individual on the street. Usually the answer is yes.

A lot of factors will be involved, but the ME report carries heavy weight.

This will all be about expert testimony in the end, just watch.
That's great, but it doesn't matter. All those cops had to do was put him in the recovery position, or acted like they were monitoring his vitals even just a little bit.

You and I both know they fucked up big time here. Of course I agree that if the guy did not have underlying health conditions, this probably would have ended with just a simple arrest and short clip across the internet, but it didn't.

I don't know how much medical or tac med training you had in your time on the department, but nothing I have ever attended or taught reflects what those guys were doing with a suspect that is not actively resisting or fighting.

Remember here, you and I are from the same team (different departments). What is really scary is I know for fact your department didn't training anybody like that (at least post North Hollywood Shootout) just like the majority of large departments across the nation. Those cops were in vapor lock and now the rest of us have to deal with the bill for that.

Nobody that is on the street "protesting" gives two fucks about the actual medical findings.
 

RiverDave

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That's great, but it doesn't matter. All those cops had to do was put him in the recovery position, or acted like they were monitoring his vitals even just a little bit.

You and I both know they fucked up big time here. Of course I agree that if the guy did not have underlying health conditions, this probably would have ended with just a simple arrest and short clip across the internet, but it didn't.

I don't know how much medical or tac med training you had in your time on the department, but nothing I have ever attended or taught reflects what those guys were doing with a suspect that is not actively resisting or fighting.

Remember here, you and I are from the same team (different departments). What is really scary is I know for fact your department didn't training anybody like that (at least post North Hollywood Shootout) just like the majority of large departments across the nation. Those cops were in vapor lock and now the rest of us have to deal with the bill for that.

Nobody that is on the street "protesting" gives two fucks about the actual medical findings.

I didn’t read that report yet because I can’t see it on my phone screen..

But I can’t see how any reasonable adult could come to any conclusion other than the cop killed the guy??

I cannot for the life of me figure out why that guy just sat there on the guys neck for 10 minutes.

I dunno what happened before that video, but it was pretty clear the guy wasn’t resisting.. then it was pretty clear he couldn’t have resisted if he wanted too. Well then he was unconscious.. Well then he’s dead..

Bizarre..
 

Heylam

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That’s it, I’m going to riot and burn this place down!! No justice, no peace. Lol
 

Turnup

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No secret or leak, TMZ posted the ME report yesterday. Family also is trying to hire Michael Boden to step in and analyze.
 

ToMorrow44

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Anybody wonder why the ambulance got there so quick..? 🤔 it’s cuz the ambulance was called before that video even started.

There was something key that happened between the security cam video (peaceful arrest) and the cell phone video. Does not absolve the police from negligence, but (as always) there’s way more to this story that we don’t know yet.
 

ToMorrow44

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I didn’t read that report yet because I can’t see it on my phone screen..

But I can’t see how any reasonable adult could come to any conclusion other than the cop killed the guy??
When you read the report you’ll see. It didn’t say the cop didn’t kill him, it said he didn’t die of asphyxiation, which we all knew.
 

Bullet28

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I can’t get the link posted from Yahoo, his wife is filing for divorce, my guess is he was a real peach to live with. He has left a pretty good trail himself of poor behavior while he was a cop. I believe this man died as a direct result of what was done to him and I’m not buying that if on another day if he was to have a issue, with someone else that his reported condition would have killed him. Just piggy backing off of the OP comments. And the other 3 cops should go down as well.
 

ToMorrow44

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I can’t get the link posted from Yahoo, his wife is filing for divorce, my guess is he was a real peach to live with. He has left a pretty good trail himself of poor behavior while he was a cop. I believe this man died as a direct result of what was done to him and I’m not buying that if on another day if he was to have a issue, with someone else that his reported condition would have killed him. Just piggy backing off of the OP comments. And the other 3 cops should go down as well.
Or did they divorce to separate/protect the family’s assets...?
 

DLow

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Or did they divorce to separate/protect the family’s assets...?
I said this in the other post in P&G and will say it here... no way did she divorce to protect “their” assets. She divorced to get as far away as she could from a man that has an entire nation against him. She’d go down hard in a grim, ugly way at some point if she were to stand by his side through this. Self preservation on her part, IMHO.
 

ToMorrow44

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I said this in the other post in P&G and will say it here... no way did she divorce to protect “their” assets. She divorced to get as far away as she could from a man that has an entire nation against him. She’d go down hard in a grim, ugly way at some point if she were to stand by his side through this. Self preservation on her part, IMHO.
Same difference.
 

Bullet28

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Or did they divorce to separate/protect the family’s assets...?

I agree anything is possible, and if that’s the case the cop himself knew in advance he was going down . I guess it’s possible she will visit him in prison if he ultimately goes there. I‘m probably a tad naive here but I would like to think also she couldn’t stand by him. But yes more that likely it was for financial protection. After all she has kids and no kids with this guy.
 

FreeBird236

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I said this in the other post in P&G and will say it here... no way did she divorce to protect “their” assets. She divorced to get as far away as she could from a man that has an entire nation against him. She’d go down hard in a grim, ugly way at some point if she were to stand by his side through this. Self preservation on her part, IMHO.
I was thinking the marriage probably already had some problems, like physical and verbal abuse, just guessing.
 

Taboma

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Happened to flip on Inside Edition while pushing buttons on the remote, just in time to see this Mrs. proclaim on TV what a wonderful husband he was and is.
Go figure
 

TITTIES AND BEER

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Pi you can sell the truth here all day but the jackasss have already left the barn , even if the facts hit the street papers tv theses assholes won’t care or listen .
 

Heylam

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This right on the heels of the black jogger murder is really bad. Racial tensions were already high.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

dribble

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BOAT PI IS 100% CORRECT ON THIS. I have spent 1000s of hours in trial on every criminal matter under the sun. Including several high profile police misconduct and use of force cases. Including a police murder case. THIS IS NOT A MURDER CASE plain and simple. Simply the facts have no proved it.

So are you saying that if Floyd had not been arrested and held down with the cop's knee to his neck like that he would died right then anyway of natural causes?
 
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Outdrive1

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BOAT PI IS 100% CORRECT ON THIS. I have spent 1000s of hours in trial on every criminal matter under the sun. Including several high profile police misconduct and use of force cases. Including a police murder case. THIS IS NOT A MURDER CASE plain and simple. Simply the facts have no proved it.

That’s going to depend on the full autopsy report and by the demographic level of the juror pool.

At minimum there will be some civil rights violations. And law suits on the city and the officers involved. He will get jail time in this case. I’m guessing manslaughter at best.


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Bullet28

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It’s been reported Chauvin is now on suicide watch, probably SOP but none the less.
 

WhatExit?

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Magic mountain dan will be along shortly with 15 threads of links telling you you’re wrong.

No idea why you'd post this insinuating I don't accept facts. Maybe you haven't seen my many posts on Covid-19 or China :rolleyes:

This is a fact...

Screen Shot 2020-05-30 at 3.25.14 PM.png
 

Bullet28

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No.what the preliminary autopsy shows is the subject DID NOT die due to aphsixiation, crushed windpipe, strangulation, or any other cause by the knee in itself. I believe a combination of excited delirium, pre-existing medical conditions and the narcotics in his system is what killed him.

Yes the pressure applied to his body/neck area and shoulder caused some issues physically but none that indicated a cause of death according to the medical examiner.

How can you find anyone guilty of murder factually if the cause of death is not by the action he is accused of.

The use of force was horrible, callous and absolutely unnecessary and illegal but did not cause his death. My guess it’s going to be an involuntary manslaughter.

I have a honest question for you, do you believe George Floyd would have lived to see another day had this not happened to him.
 

Bullet28

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Point well taken, but you and I know that’s not how life works. It comes down to what should a man loose his life for. Four cops could not evidently handle one man. I have like many of you LEO friends that I’ve known for years and years. So I called one of my friends and asked what’s the first thing you come across mostly. And he said resistance and in this case there was apparently some, but sounded like nothing over the top. What bothers me is when someone makes a comment that what happened wasn’t the cause of death , you might as well say he is not guilty.
 

4Waters

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So are you saying that if Floyd had not been arrested and held down with the cop's knee to his neck like that he would died right then anyway of natural causes?
Multiple people die every year from a heart attack induced by the stress of being arrested, this guy had serious underlying cardiac and cardiovascular health issues. I'm not saying that it was right to keep his knee on his neck but it appears that the cops actions didn't kill him.
 
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