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NAFLASH

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It would be cool to lay up a new Spectra but I wonder the condition of the mold. "AS IS" for 10g's. :rolleyes
 

74 spectra20 v-drive

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The guys whop owns this mold currently (I believe) is the owner of the red Spectra in the pics and the owner of Hot Rods n Hobbies in Signal Hill. Absolute high end quality hot rods on par with the best builders around, I have seen the Boat in person and its beautiful as well as seen a few of their cars at the Pomona Roadster show, off the chart bitchen stuff, I would assume the mold has been well taken care of
 

guest hs

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At 10K you could build 1 or 2 boats and recoup your money from the mold. Try to build your own plug and mold see what that cost you, try marketing a boat know one has ever heard of and will it even perform? Spectra is one of the most well recognized boats in this area and performs too. Sounds like a deal to me!
 

old rigger

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At 10K you could build 1 or 2 boats and recoup your money from the mold. Try to build your own plug and mold see what that cost you, try marketing a boat know one has ever heard of and will it even perform? Spectra is one of the most well recognized boats in this area and performs too. Sounds like a deal to me!

I agree. Parked next to the owner of the molds a few years back at the circle races at marine stadium. Nice guy and we talked a lot about the molds. This was before he popped his out. I'd love to have them, build 4 maybe 5 a year, be very cool.
 

AzGeo

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At 10K you could build 1 or 2 boats and recoup your money from the mold. Try to build your own plug and mold see what that cost you, try marketing a boat know one has ever heard of and will it even perform? Spectra is one of the most well recognized boats in this area and performs too. Sounds like a deal to me!

I agree. Parked next to the owner of the molds a few years back at the circle races at marine stadium. Nice guy and we talked a lot about the molds. This was before he popped his out. I'd love to have them, build 4 maybe 5 a year, be very cool.

You two be naming your new boats ?

What will be the name of the company ?

"Sounds easy don't it"? Just sayin' ..............
 

old rigger

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You two be naming your new boats ?

What will be the name of the company ?

"Sounds easy don't it"? Just sayin' ..............

Yeah it does sound easy, and day dreaming and blowing smoke is fun but I know what it takes to not only finance and build but to market the thing. Selling a 47 year old design would be extremely tough in today's market especially when craigslist is full of boats that a buyer can get into for a fraction of the cost of a new one. Tastes changed long ago to bigger bigger bigger and building that boat that would be in direct competition with Schiada, they're the only guys offering anything close to this old school ride, it'd be an up hill battle. I like the Howard deck better with it's straightened gunnels and no kitty litter non skid (the molds that Donahue bought when they were sold) but the Spectra is a classic.

Still, it'd be very cool to own them if only to build one for myself. And yes, that's just me dreaming out loud. :)
 

AzGeo

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always affects your bank accounts first ...........
 

guest hs

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You two be naming your new boats ?

What will be the name of the company ?

"Sounds easy don't it"? Just sayin' ..............

Yes you would give the boat a new name but could market it as the original Spectra boat, the industry's most copied bottom!
 

old rigger

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Yes you would give the boat a new name but could market it as the original Spectra boat, the industry's most copied bottom!

Almost. The little 16 Tahiti was a game changer and it's the most copied. Everyone had a splash of that thing back in the day and actually that's a Glastron bottom.

The Southward 18 and Spectra 20 would be tied for 2nd, tough call. :)
 

wsuwrhr

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Nice to see you still poking around OR.

Stick around a bit, I miss your input sir.

Things going better for you I hope?

Have you had to clear a concrete floor storage room of liquid resin with a metal snow shovel lately? :)

Brian
 

AzGeo

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Almost. The little 16 Tahiti was a game changer and it's the most copied. Everyone had a splash of that thing back in the day and actually that's a Glastron bottom.

The Southward 18 and Spectra 20 would be tied for 2nd, tough call. :)

All the current day boats that have the Bahner 21' bottom ?

The Southwind 18' was a major deal in the 70's/80's, and how many 'west coast cats' are off of the original 'Chris Craft Cats' ?
 

old rigger

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All the current day boats that have the Bahner 21' bottom ?

The Southwind 18' was a major deal in the 70's/80's, and how many 'west coast cats' are off of the original 'Chris Craft Cats' ?

Bahner was famous for splashing, Rogers, Southward and so on, I doubt anything was original tooling.

Never seen a chris craft cat? Power Cats were big back in the day, they were in what would become Howards building.

And yeah, Southwind's were huge. Beautiful LP hulls.
 

old rigger

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Nice to see you still poking around OR.

Stick around a bit, I miss your input sir.

Things going better for you I hope?

Have you had to clear a concrete floor storage room of liquid resin with a metal snow shovel lately? :)

Brian

Thanks for the kind words Brian. ;)

I wish it was only the storage room, it was the entire laminating room! Gigantic part of the building. lol, what a mess. We're lucky we didn't blow ourselves and the shop to pieces.
 

guest hs

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All the current day boats that have the Bahner 21' bottom ?

The Southwind 18' was a major deal in the 70's/80's, and how many 'west coast cats' are off of the original 'Chris Craft Cats' ?

20 Bahner 20 Centurion (second gen) were copys of the Eliminator Sport Cruiser. Eliminator Sued Centurion for copy rights and Centurions mold were soon named Caliber ! Leaches son in law Lotz I believe.
Most tunnel bottoms were copied from Talon.
 

wsuwrhr

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Thanks for the kind words Brian. ;)

I wish it was only the storage room, it was the entire laminating room! Gigantic part of the building. lol, what a mess. We're lucky we didn't blow ourselves and the shop to pieces.



My most favorite story of all time!!! :)

Brian
 

old rigger

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20 Bahner 20 Centurion (second gen) were copys of the Eliminator Sport Cruiser. Eliminator Sued Centurion for copy rights and Centurions mold were soon named Caliber ! Leaches son in law Lotz I believe.
Most tunnel bottoms were copied from Talon.

I was thinking about that Banner bottom today, on the road to buy a Spectra 20, and something was telling me Eliminator but I didn't know for sure.


Didn't know Cliff was related to Leach. He built real nice boats, very nice. Funny guy too. His shop was over on Eisenhower along with Advantage, Waarlock, Stratton and a few smaller shops. Fun times.

I remember at one time Leach's son was married to Danny's (Competitive trailer Danny) daughter. Long time ago, don't know if they're still together.
 

wsuwrhr

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I was thinking about that Banner bottom today, on the road to buy a Spectra 20, and something was telling me Eliminator but I didn't know for sure.


Didn't know Cliff was related to Leach. He built real nice boats, very nice. Funny guy too. His shop was over on Eisenhower along with Advantage, Waarlock, Stratton and a few smaller shops. Fun times.

I remember at one time Leach's son was married to Danny's (Competitive trailer Danny) daughter. Long time ago, don't know if they're still together.

Did I read that right OR?

You are buying/bought a Spectra 20?
 

AzGeo

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20 Bahner 20 Centurion (second gen) were copys of the Eliminator Sport Cruiser. Eliminator Sued Centurion for copy rights and Centurions mold were soon named Caliber ! Leaches son in law Lotz I believe.
Most tunnel bottoms were copied from Talon.

WRONG ! The 20.5 Eliminator Sport Cruiser has a totally different bottom than the Bahner, and the Rick Lee Centurion 20.5 is exactly the same turd bottom of the Leach boat .

WHY, anyone would 'steal' and then another 'sue' over such a 'low performance hull design' still confuses me .

The Talon is directly OFF the CHRIS CATS of the 1970's . Talon (they added a black windshield place to the deck), Howard, Conquest deck, Eliminator deck, and Magic (with a center pod flat spot), and a few others .

The CHRIS CATS are now known as AMERICAN OFFSHORE, they are using the same hull and deck designs as the 1970's Chris Cats .

Lotz never designed anything, so I have no trouble believing he bought someone else's suspect molds . In fact, the "21' cruiser" Lotz sold was exactly off of the Bahner, you should ask him .

What all this BS has to do with buying old Spectra molds seems to be quickly getting lost .
 

old rigger

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Yeah Brian, picked up another 20 Spectra, a '78. My wife is (not any longer ;)) pissed that I sold the old '79. It was the cleanest Spectra I'd ever seen but I got a bug and sold it. Wanted something else at the time and I can't even remember what that was. This is another sbc/IO. Main difference except for color is the old one was a 4 stringer setup, this is the short stringer. Bottom's super straight and it needs just enough stuff done to it to make if a fun little project. Most importantly it's another original non bow rail hull and it has original gel too. I might re-gel the dash, it has way too many gauges and a stereo that have to go.
 

wsuwrhr

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Yeah Brian, picked up another 20 Spectra, a '78. My wife is (not any longer ;)) pissed that I sold the old '79. It was the cleanest Spectra I'd ever seen but I got a bug and sold it. Wanted something else at the time and I can't even remember what that was. This is another sbc/IO. Main difference except for color is the old one was a 4 stringer setup, this is the short stringer. Bottom's super straight and it needs just enough stuff done to it to make if a fun little project. Most importantly it's another original non bow rail hull and it has original gel too. I might re-gel the dash, it has way too many gauges and a stereo that have to go.

Sawwweeet!

Nothing in this world is worse than an Old Rigger that is boatless.

Be ready this season?

Brian
 

old rigger

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Sawwweeet!

Nothing in this world is worse than an Old Rigger that is boatless.

Be ready this season?

Brian

That's funny. It's ready now. There's a few things that I have to do just because I can't look at them but I promised my wife I wouldn't tear into it for anything major, like the dash, until next winter. This will give me some time to look for some shag carpet. Under the deck there's still the original shag. I hated it back in the day because I had to install it, but now I'm kind of digging' it. I want to get some new rims, something with a 70's look. Probably just end up with chrome reversed wheels, maybe some slot mags. And I 'd like to do some chrome fenders. The trailer has lots of diamond aluminum on it, big rock guard up front and little step plates...I can't stand aluminum diamond plate so I might replace the rock guard with ply and carpet and do some little upholstered panels on the step plates. The only thing I never did building boats was learning to sew, that's my goal now, to learn something new. Lady down the street has an industrial machine with a walking foot and said I'm welcome to it so I'm going to take her up on her offer. I love boats with bench seats and will eventually put one in this 20. The wood work is easy, sewing I think will take some time. I'm only interested in tuck and roll so that at least gives me a focus on what to learn. You know Cas? He has the old Laid Back Boaters site, he's learned over the last year and has been giving me pointers, like to look for a machine with reverse and a walking foot.;)
 

wsuwrhr

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I gave up on the shag carpet idea for UCH. Everyone convinced me when it gets wet it will never dry fully.

I am thinking about doing some modern size billet turbine style wheels. Nothing more 70's than that. :)

No sir, I do not know him

Brian

That's funny. It's ready now. There's a few things that I have to do just because I can't look at them but I promised my wife I wouldn't tear into it for anything major, like the dash, until next winter. This will give me some time to look for some shag carpet. Under the deck there's still the original shag. I hated it back in the day because I had to install it, but now I'm kind of digging' it. I want to get some new rims, something with a 70's look. Probably just end up with chrome reversed wheels, maybe some slot mags. And I 'd like to do some chrome fenders. The trailer has lots of diamond aluminum on it, big rock guard up front and little step plates...I can't stand aluminum diamond plate so I might replace the rock guard with ply and carpet and do some little upholstered panels on the step plates. The only thing I never did building boats was learning to sew, that's my goal now, to learn something new. Lady down the street has an industrial machine with a walking foot and said I'm welcome to it so I'm going to take her up on her offer. I love boats with bench seats and will eventually put one in this 20. The wood work is easy, sewing I think will take some time. I'm only interested in tuck and roll so that at least gives me a focus on what to learn. You know Cas? He has the old Laid Back Boaters site, he's learned over the last year and has been giving me pointers, like to look for a machine with reverse and a walking foot.;)
 

guest hs

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WRONG ! The 20.5 Eliminator Sport Cruiser has a totally different bottom than the Bahner, and the Rick Lee Centurion 20.5 is exactly the same turd bottom of the Leach boat .

WHY, anyone would 'steal' and then another 'sue' over such a 'low performance hull design' still confuses me .

The Talon is directly OFF the CHRIS CATS of the 1970's . Talon (they added a black windshield place to the deck), Howard, Conquest deck, Eliminator deck, and Magic (with a center pod flat spot), and a few others .

The CHRIS CATS are now known as AMERICAN OFFSHORE, they are using the same hull and deck designs as the 1970's Chris Cats .

Lotz never designed anything, so I have no trouble believing he bought someone else's suspect molds . In fact, the "21' cruiser" Lotz sold was exactly off of the Bahner, you should ask him .

What all this BS has to do with buying old Spectra molds seems to be quickly getting lost .

Would you at least agree the 3 mini cruisers I mentioned have the exact same deck?
 

AzGeo

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Would you at least agree the 3 mini cruisers I mentioned have the exact same deck?

The Eliminator and the Centurion (20.5 not the rounded 21' you have) are the same boat, but the Bahner is totally different . (top and bottom)
 

old rigger

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Here's a Banner and a Centurion, exactly the same hull and deck. Lots of mis-information swirling around here.

00O0O_jHiObjXa8np_1200x900.jpg 00r0r_d1xt0mjpPfH_1200x900.jpg 00k0k_dEMyLwKpPR2_1200x900.jpg 00c0c_8JWMDTGj10w_1200x900.jpg 00q0q_9Uesk6mpvIR_1200x900.jpg 00o0o_hsn8K3cQQGH_1200x900.jpg
 

guest hs

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The Eliminator and the Centurion (20.5 not the rounded 21' you have) are the same boat, but the Bahner is totally different . (top and bottom)
My Centurion came out of Sonny Dimarcos mold they are also laid up as Canyons after Centurion.
 

guest hs

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Here's a 20 Bahner that's in my shop right now
 

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FASTJTBT144

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I agree. Parked next to the owner of the molds a few years back at the circle races at marine stadium. Nice guy and we talked a lot about the molds. This was before he popped his out. I'd love to have them, build 4 maybe 5 a year, be very cool.
It would be hard to sell 4 or 5
just remember Danny @ DCM had a rough time selling his boats. I grew up with spectra,s and still own 2 I agree great boat just not a big demand plus a bare hull to lay up these days would 20k plus.
 

AzGeo

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As I recall the differences (from years ago), I'll start with the photo of the blue transom and the brown one . One has a 'rounded top gunnel edge' and the other is much more 'squared off . Similar, but not the same profile of 'lower to upper deck lines' . The Bahners have a 'sharper line' on all of their corners and transitions .

The Bahner has a 'flatter foredeck', than the others . I also think the Bahner has a little more 'flat deck area' to more easily cut in bowriders (but it's very shallow on the sides VS the others). The 'taper of the deck nose', is also different . It may be that the Eliminator has a 'peak', the Centurion is slightly rounded, and the Bahner is almost flat . (it's one way or the other)

The Bahner cockpit may be a little wider, but I have not measured one against the others .

The Bahner has a different keel, and the first strakes are also in a different place . Also thinking the Bahner is 'just a little bit shorter', from chine the molding . (less freeboard)

Don't allow your eye to follow the gel colors, but look at the shape if the boat design .

To me, this is not like "a Spectra and a Howard", it may be more like, "a Camaro and a Firebird", or a"a DCB VS an Eliminator", but the 'legal test' is whether a deck or hull part will FIT into someone else's molds .

I say the Eliminator and Centurion will and the Bahner will not . Photos do not tell the whole story, and short of knowing every builder's story, or measuring each boat brand, you can continue to trust the photos, but I don't .

I like the 'styling' of these boats, and I see the differences .

If you still think they are all the same, you may as well add in the 21's Cliff Lotz built, that may or may not be out of the Bahner molds ..........(and all the other copies of it)
 

SBMech

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The Bahner and the Centurion look different to me. I see differences in the rise of the deck and the nose shape. Without photos of the hulls I can only guess that they would be different as well. The gel schemes trick the eye.

If I am not mistaken the Centurion is a hull splash of the Spectra anyhow?

Congrats on the Spectra OR, post up some pics!
 

wsuwrhr

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It would be hard to sell 4 or 5
just remember Danny @ DCM had a rough time selling his boats. I grew up with spectra,s and still own 2 I agree great boat just not a big demand plus a bare hull to lay up these days would 20k plus.

DCM had just started out in fiberglass boats and the timing was OK. I think he would had done well given some market exposure.

Danny was a hell of a guy, regardless.

I was happy to be a part of his program.

Brian
 

SBMech

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DCM had just started out in fiberglass boats and the timing was OK. I think he would had done well given some market exposure.

Danny was a hell of a guy, regardless.

I was happy to be a part of his program.

Brian

I did not know you were involved in DCM, tell the story! :thumbup:

Never met him, but the boats I have seen here were amazing!
 

guest hs

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The Bahner and the Centurion look different to me. I see differences in the rise of the deck and the nose shape. Without photos of the hulls I can only guess that they would be different as well. The gel schemes trick the eye.

If I am not mistaken the Centurion is a hull splash of the Spectra anyhow?

Congrats on the Spectra OR, post up some pics!

There were 2 centurion cruiser molds my avatar is my centurion early version from Dimarco. Dimarco took a Howard that was in a fire used the bottom and changed the deck the blue and white Centirion is 2nd version from the Eliminator Sport Cruiser mold. The person to ask if the Bahner is not the same would be Greg Shoemaker he rigged several vdrive version from Bahner when they were new.
 

wsuwrhr

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I did not know you were involved in DCM, tell the story! :thumbup:

Never met him, but the boats I have seen here were amazing!


I did most of the hardware for the V Drive boat. I had heard when Prime went through it a bunch of stuff got changed, when I saw it at Desert Storm last year I was happy to see much of the hardware I made was still in it.

It was bittersweet moment when she finally got a buyer, even though she headed to the other side of our rock.

They were nice boats and he did that genre proud I thought. I had planned on buying one when my family got bigger. Instead I got it's bigger brother, UCH.


Brian
 

SBMech

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There were 2 centurion cruiser molds my avatar is my centurion early version from Dimarco. Dimarco took a Howard that was in a fire used the bottom and changed the deck the blue and white Centirion is 2nd version from the Eliminator Sport Cruiser mold. The person to ask if the Bahner is not the same would be Greg Shoemaker he rigged several vdrive version from Bahner when they were new.

Did you get some new info recently? You said your Centurion has a Spectra hull and a Dimarco Deck here :

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?138658-1977-CENTURION-DAY-CRUISER

Just curious, I love these old day cruisers and love to learn more about the hey day of them :)
 

SBMech

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I did most of the hardware for the V Drive boat. I had heard when Prime went through it a bunch of stuff got changed, when I saw it at Desert Storm last year I was happy to see much of the hardware I made was still in it.

It was bittersweet moment when she finally got a buyer, even though she headed to the other side of our rock.

They were nice boats and he did that genre proud I thought. I had planned on buying one when my family got bigger. Instead I got it's bigger brother, UCH.


Brian

That is awesome, we are talking about the blue one that was advertised on RDP right?

How many did DCM build?
 

guest hs

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wsuwrhr

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That is awesome, we are talking about the blue one that was advertised on RDP right?

How many did DCM build?

I think he did 5 total, only one was a vdrive. I think 2 jets and two I/0s
 

SBMech

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Where do you think that Howard bottom came from? It came from a Spectra so same is same just worded it differently

Thanks for the clarification, I keep finding new splashes of everything the more I read about those days!

Seems like everyone was just trying to keep up with the best whenever something better came out...weird to me that they just copied that shit with no repercussions:p

Today you'd have all sorts of lawyers and copyright infringement cases if they did that.:eek
 

FASTJTBT144

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I did most of the hardware for the V Drive boat. I had heard when Prime went through it a bunch of stuff got changed, when I saw it at Desert Storm last year I was happy to see much of the hardware I made was still in it.

It was bittersweet moment when she finally got a buyer, even though she headed to the other side of our rock.

They were nice boats and he did that genre proud I thought. I had planned on buying one when my family got bigger. Instead I got it's bigger brother, UCH.


Brian
Hats off to Danny he did do a great job on his boats one hell of a rigger as for that vee drive boat just know a few things about and
don't know what part you played in it. I heard the family pulled it back from a shop in parker where the vee drive rigging was a fn mess and took
it to Mike @ Prime to do what does best Danny would be very proud of the finished product,
 

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Would be neat to see how one of these old hulls would run if built for modern outboard power. It would have a ton of interior room.
I'm sure it wouldn't win many races but seems it could be a rather roomy family wagon.
 

74 spectra20 v-drive

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There is one going together right now with a big OB on it. The DCM mold was used and since he bought those from Howard and Howard splashed a Spectra... the top deck was changed by Howard in the early 90's I believe but the boat looks beautiful.
 
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