Speed cars hit the assembly Line

[Singleton]

No. Just having a guy saying he is a black hat and points out BS when he sees it, yet can't see the Tesla BS he is standing in, or realizes that Tesla went through the same issues when they were a start up on a car they only made 3000 of ever (Tesla Roadster)... is pretty comical.

It took Tesla over 5 years to get the Roadster to market.. and they had Lotus making the chassis for them. The car was late to debut, cost more than promised, and the range was less.. That has been the deal with every Tesla vehicle platform to date.

Can you point to another startup in the US that put a vehicle to market in under 4 years in this century? I don't think one exists.

Speed does not suck less or more. There are not even any products in customer hands to make the judgement call yet.

Pointing out the shortfalls of Tesla and Polaris, both well established companies, and then holding Speed to some kind of higher bar is ridiculous.

Polaris puts out product with subpar QC all the time and issues recalls. It takes them 3+ years to develop their new car. Tesla isn't amazing on that front either, and cant get a car out on time with the specs and prices promised.

And you are going to nail Speed UTV the startup to the cross for pushing out their debut car in the middle of a supply chain debacle as they try to dial in QC after designing an entire car from the ground up in 3 years.... Yea that makes a ton of sense.

You going to call me out, have the guts to tag my name. Otherwise, STFU!
You mentioned the CyberTruck deposit compared to Speed. I keep pointing out that is BS. Comparing to the roadster might be more appropriate, but you did not start with that, you started with the truck. Only switched to the roadster once it was pointed out the truck comparison was BS.

Since today is quarter end, I had some time to research and it looks like your comparison to the roadster might be BS as well, when reviewing the timeline.
The Roadster 1st generation prototype was publicly released in July 2006, 3 years after company was launched. Deposits for the limited release started being accepted in July 2006 with two 100 production runs originally announced (both sold out). The first delivery was in February 2008 (but that was to Musk, so I will not count that). Production really started in March 2008 and 500 were produced and delivered between Feb 2008 and June 2009. Tesla produced the Roadster until January 2012, when its supply of Lotus gliders ran out, as its contract with Lotus for 2,500 gliders expired at the end of 2011.

If my math is accurate, that is 20 months from prototype announcement (deposits accepted) to delivery and 3 years from prototype announcement to 500 units delivered. Once again Speed losses that timing comparison.

 

[BIGRED9158]

You going to call me out, have the guts to tag my name. Otherwise, STFU!
You mentioned the CyberTruck deposit compared to Speed. I keep pointing out that is BS. Comparing to the roadster might be more appropriate, but you did not start with that, you started with the truck. Only switched to the roadster once it was pointed out the truck comparison was BS.

Since today is quarter end, I had some time to research and it looks like your comparison to the roadster might be BS as well, when reviewing the timeline.
The Roadster 1st generation prototype was publicly released in July 2006, 3 years after company was launched. Deposits for the limited release started being accepted in July 2006 with two 100 production runs originally announced (both sold out). The first delivery was in February 2008 (but that was to Musk, so I will not count that). Production really started in March 2008 and 500 were produced and delivered between Feb 2008 and June 2009. Tesla produced the Roadster until January 2012, when its supply of Lotus gliders ran out, as its contract with Lotus for 2,500 gliders expired at the end of 2011.

If my math is accurate, that is 20 months from prototype announcement (deposits accepted) to delivery and 3 years from prototype announcement to 500 units delivered. Once again Speed losses that timing comparison.

Oh boy i love when mom and dad fight

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You going to call me out, have the guts to tag my name. Otherwise, STFU!
You mentioned the CyberTruck deposit compared to Speed. I keep pointing out that is BS. Comparing to the roadster might be more appropriate, but you did not start with that, you started with the truck. Only switched to the roadster once it was pointed out the truck comparison was BS.

Since today is quarter end, I had some time to research and it looks like your comparison to the roadster might be BS as well, when reviewing the timeline.
The Roadster 1st generation prototype was publicly released in July 2006, 3 years after company was launched. Deposits for the limited release started being accepted in July 2006 with two 100 production runs originally announced (both sold out). The first delivery was in February 2008 (but that was to Musk, so I will not count that). Production really started in March 2008 and 500 were produced and delivered between Feb 2008 and June 2009. Tesla produced the Roadster until January 2012, when its supply of Lotus gliders ran out, as its contract with Lotus for 2,500 gliders expired at the end of 2011.

If my math is accurate, that is 20 months from prototype announcement (deposits accepted) to delivery and 3 years from prototype announcement to 500 units delivered. Once again Speed losses that timing comparison.

Haha can I say the same for you then? Tag me when you call me out, stop with the “some people” BS .

That was a nice word salad but the timeline of how Teslas made the first Roadster was not in question. Tesla was an automotive startup. It took them over 5 years to get a car out. We are not talking about when they announced prototypes. They are a car company, and that road to delivering product to customer started on day 1, not when they announced a prototype. That took 5 years.

In fact you dodged my question as you always do because you know the answer and so do I.

Show me any Tesla platform that debuted on time and had the range advertised for the original price aside from arguably the model Y (derivative of the late, overpromised and underdelivered Model 3 platform) No Tesla has come out on time for the price promised and offered the range promised.

They have a near 20 year history of over promising and under delivering. You continue to dodge this fact but we both know that is the case, yet you don’t call them on their BS.

I can compare Speed UTV with the truck platform, the 3 platform, the S platform or the roadster.. the truth is the same for all of them. All over promised and under delivered.

 

[stonehenge]

Those who get this, will appreciate it!

 

[EarpRider]

Will Speed race in Parker Jan 7th / 8th? Or more importantly will we see customers in Speed cars cruising Shea Rd during the race?

Best in the Desert has changes in store for Parker races

Best in the Desert Racing Association has some major changes in store for the 2023 Parker 250 and Parker 425 off-road races. BITD spokesperson Megan Phillips said the biggest of

www.parkerpioneer.net

 

[Bpracing1127]

Will Speed race in Parker Jan 7th / 8th? Or more importantly will we see customers in Speed cars cruising Shea Rd during the race?

Best in the Desert has changes in store for Parker races

Best in the Desert Racing Association has some major changes in store for the 2023 Parker 250 and Parker 425 off-road races. BITD spokesperson Megan Phillips said the biggest of

www.parkerpioneer.net

99%. No

 

[Singleton]

Oh boy i love when mom and dad fight

Difference is one of us knows when to walk away and not respond to every post. Never going to convince someone to see a different POV, when their vision is clouded in speed energy drinks .

joining the club of those who stopped posting due to @LargeOrangeFont
It’s been fun. Will visit and read, but my posting days are numbered

 

[Mr. C]

Difference is one of us knows when to walk away and not respond to every post. Never going to convince someone to see a different POV, when their vision is clouded in speed energy drinks .

joining the club of those who stopped posting due to @LargeOrangeFont
It’s been fun. Will visit and read, but my posting days are numbered

He is starting to remind of another member who now only( and yes has me on ignore) post in private threads. Can’t ever just let it go.

 

[BIGRED9158]

Difference is one of us knows when to walk away and not respond to every post. Never going to convince someone to see a different POV, when their vision is clouded in speed energy drinks .

joining the club of those who stopped posting due to @LargeOrangeFont
It’s been fun. Will visit and read, but my posting days are numbered

What happened to @Riverryder did lof scare him off too

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Difference is one of us knows when to walk away and not respond to every post. Never going to convince someone to see a different POV, when their vision is clouded in speed energy drinks .

joining the club of those who stopped posting due to @LargeOrangeFont
It’s been fun. Will visit and read, but my posting days are numbered

Not posting on the site anymore because of posts from a person you can ignore in single thread about a UTV you say you won’t buy seems a bit irrational, but do what you gotta do.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

He is starting to remind of another member who now only( and yes has me on ignore) post in private threads. Can’t ever just let it go.

If others would let it go, I’d be forced to. No one seems to be able to. The power is with all of you, not me.

 

[Mr. C]

If others would let it go, I’d be forced to. No one seems to be able to. The power is with all of you, not me.

Again. So wrong. You have voiced your opinion over and over. And refuse to see others. Just come back with a combative comment. Again. I don’t know you. Never met you and can only go by your persona on RDP. You seem to be always right. Your way or no way. No exceptions. Like I said. Just like another member I know.

 

[BIGRED9158]

@LargeOrangeFont is the Bet for 1k happen or what I don’t always agree with you but it’s time for the haters to either put up or shut up you guys always talk a lot of shit but when lof says he down to bet everyone runs away I don’t get it

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Again. So wrong. You have voiced your opinion over and over. And refuse to see others. Just come back with a combative comment. Again. I don’t know you. Never met you and can only go by your persona on RDP. You seem to be always right. Your way or no way. No exceptions. Like I said. Just like another member I know.

That is also so wrong. I see the opinions of others, thy have also voiced them over and over. I’ve agreed with some of them, and disagreed with others. I’ve been wrong many times and so have others. Rarely does anyone stand up and say “I was wrong” in any of these threads.

There is plenty of risk in this deal. I’ve laid all of that out for 3 years.

If you don’t like the company or the product, don’t buy one. If you aren’t a customer what does Speed owe you at this point? Nothing. So why be upset that the cars are not here?

I don’t want my car rushed now at the 11th hour so you can see it.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

@LargeOrangeFont is the Bet for 1k happen or what I don’t always agree with you but it’s time for the haters to either put up or shut up you guys always talk a lot of shit but when lof says he down to bet everyone runs away I don’t get it

I have a bet with @702sandman I am going to lose based on Xmas delivery of my car. It is not going to happen. Class act dude and understands this is all in fun. I hope to have a drink with him and pay the man after Xmas.

As for the $1k no posting bet, I’m down for a bet that has a start and end date, and has a winner and a loser.

A bet extending with no timetable is not a bet. A bet where both parties get their money back because there is no winner is not a bet.

The bet I put forth based on the above is the following - I won’t post in here until Jan 1. If I post in here before Jan 1, I lose $1k. If I do not post in here before Jan 1 I win $1k.

Send funds to Dave, when he confirms receipt I have 12 hours to send funds to Dave and clock starts.

If the haters don’t like that, come up with something else and we can discuss it.

 

[BIGRED9158]

I have a bet with @702sandman I am going to lose based on Xmas delivery of my car. It is not going to happen. Class act dude and understands this is all in fun. I hope to have a drink with him and pay the man after Xmas.

As for the $1k no posting bet, I’m down for a bet that has a start and end date, and has a winner and a loser.

A bet extending with no timetable is not a bet. A bet where both parties get their money back because there is no winner is not a bet.

The bet I put forth based on the above is the following - I won’t post in here until Jan 1. If I post in here before Jan 1, I lose $1k. If I do not post in here before Jan 1 I win $1k.

Send funds to Dave, when he confirms receipt I have 12 hours to send funds to Dave and clock starts.

If the haters don’t like that, come up with something else and we can discuss it.

I had a gentleman bet with you that the kid would be here before the speed car and the due date was December 3rd and they induced so I am going to say none of us won

 

[Laguna]

@LargeOrangeFont is the Bet for 1k happen or what I don’t always agree with you but it’s time for the haters to either put up or shut up you guys always talk a lot of shit but when lof says he down to bet everyone runs away I don’t get it

I didn't run from anything the mouth asked Dave if he should stop posting. I said just the fact your asking means he wants you to. He said he would if I did . I said 1k he said what are my terms. I tell neither of us could post in this discussion or pay other 1k. He then asked how long I said you tell me. He again said I should tell him So I said January 1st. Now he wants to change it to if he can go until January 1st he gets paid. He or I get paid if the other posts that was the bet. But he can't shut his mouth so I should have known.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I had a gentleman bet with you that the kid would be here before the speed car and the due date was December 3rd and they induced so I am going to say none of us won

Well you won that one either way

With regards to the car, I dunno we have a few more days but it’s not looking good for the 3rd, but perhaps this month sometime.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I didn't run from anything the mouth asked Dave if he should stop posting. I said just the fact your asking means he wants you to. He said he would if I did . I said 1k he said what are my terms. I tell neither of us could post in this discussion or pay other 1k. He then asked how long I said you tell me. He again said I should tell him So I said January 1st. Now he wants to change it to if he can go until January 1st he gets paid. He or I get paid if the other posts that was the bet. But he can't shut his mouth so I should have known.

Put up the money and find out. You won’t so sit down .

 

[Laguna]

I have a bet with @702sandman I am going to lose based on Xmas delivery of my car. It is not going to happen. Class act dude and understands this is all in fun. I hope to have a drink with him and pay the man after Xmas.

As for the $1k no posting bet, I’m down for a bet that has a start and end date, and has a winner and a loser.

A bet extending with no timetable is not a bet. A bet where both parties get their money back because there is no winner is not a bet.

The bet I put forth based on the above is the following - I won’t post in here until Jan 1. If I post in here before Jan 1, I lose $1k. If I do not post in here before Jan 1 I win $1k.

Send funds to Dave, when he confirms receipt I have 12 hours to send funds to Dave and clock starts.

If the haters don’t like that, come up with something else and we can discuss it.

Funny how you kept telling me to come up with terms now it's not a bet . Funny when you gamble in Vegas are there pushes? I guess that's not betting. Oh can't wait for this response.

 

[Mr. C]

I had a gentleman bet with you that the kid would be here before the speed car and the due date was December 3rd and they induced so I am going to say none of us won

I’m going with you won. You have beautiful new born baby. Nothing beats that

 

[Laguna]

Put up the money and find out. You won’t so sit down .

Agree to the original bet and I will but I want it extended the days you have been hiding behind its not a bet.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Funny how you kept telling me to come up with terms now it's not a bet . Funny when you gamble in Vegas are there pushes? I guess that's not betting. Oh can't wait for this response.

This ain’t Vegas or blackjack.

Man up and send money to Dave .

 

[BIGRED9158]

This ain’t Vegas or blackjack.

Man up and send money to Dave .

Or you guys can just send to me my lady can’t breast feed with the meds she is on and formula ain’t cheap

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Agree to the original bet and I will but I want it extended the days you have been hiding behind its not a bet.

It’s not a bet until you send Dave money. Get on that. He has my number.

Pick a bet with a winner, a loser and an end date.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Or you guys can just send to me my lady can’t breast feed with the meds she is on and formula ain’t cheap

That is a car payment between diapers and formula every month.

 

[Laguna]

This ain’t Vegas or blackjack.

Man up and send money to Dave .

Yeah it's a bet your delusional. It's ok I know you can't shut your mouth you just proved me and everyone else on this site

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yeah it's a bet your delusional. It's ok I know you can't shut your mouth you just proved me and everyone else on this site

And we proved to everyone else here what I already knew from the last time dealing with you. You wont bet against me

Thanks again.

There you have it @BIGRED9158.

You team can’t even get a bet together to shut me up.

If you guys were smart and thought I was ruining the site much as some
If you claim, you’d bet me that I couldn’t post in only this thread for a month.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

You guys realize that every night at the same time this stupid bet thing comes up??

Geezus!!! Get a hobby!!!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You guys realize that every night at the same time this stupid bet thing comes up??

Geezus!!! Get a hobby!!!

Quiet Joe, I’m trying to get a rack out of these guys.

 

[BIGRED9158]

And we proved to everyone else here what I already knew from the last time dealing with you. You wont bet against me

Thanks again.

There you have it @BIGRED9158.

You team can’t even get a bet together to shut me up.

If you guys were smart and thought I was ruining the site much as some
If you claim, you’d bet me that I couldn’t post in only this thread for a month.

How much to not post on rdp at all you might get some takers on that lol

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

How much to not post on rdp at all you might get some takers on that lol

Bring it.. it won’t happen, no one will put up the money.

 

[SJP]

So I have a friend (not on this site) with a deposit down on a car and he is #1800 something. I literally just called him and asked him his vibe on the whole deal. Did not mention the site, thread, and just listened to his commentary.

Summary of the conversation:
* He is still stoked to get his car and not stressing
* Figures hopefully by next fall
* He is 18K in accessories and 1500 down into it
* 31K OTD on arrival (was a little concerned on rates then if he wanted to finance the balance) compared to when he originally committed
* Did not want to do a full pro R build or whatever. Wanted something turn key.

I will say I did not realize he was that deep into the accessories and was playing it pretty cool. I am excited to drive the car when he gets it.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

So I have a friend (not on this site) with a deposit down on a car and he is #1800 something. I literally just called him and asked him his vibe on the whole deal. Did not mention the site, thread, and just listened to his commentary.

Summary of the conversation:
* He is still stoked to get his car and not stressing
* Figures hopefully by next fall
* He is 18K in accessories and 1500 down into it
* 31K OTD on arrival (was a little concerned on rates then if he wanted to finance the balance) compared to when he originally committed
* Did not want to do a full pro R build or whatever. Wanted something turn key.

I will say I did not realize he was that deep into the accessories and was playing it pretty cool. I am excited to drive the car when he gets it.

So he's $51,500.00 plus tax, title and license?
I assume there is no additional delivery fees?

 

[NicPaus]

Pretty sure that is $50,500 otd after tax.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

Pretty sure that is $50,500 otd after tax.

Oops

Bad math but you think the peripheral fees are part of the $31K?

It's not cheap but if the car performs, it's not out of line with what these things sell for.

 

[Laguna]

And we proved to everyone else here what I already knew from the last time dealing with you. You wont bet against me

Thanks again.

There you have it @BIGRED9158.

You team can’t even get a bet together to shut me up.

If you guys were smart and thought I was ruining the site much as some
If you claim, you’d bet me that I couldn’t post in only this thread for a month.

I never claimed you ran anything quite the opposite. This is a successful site I have no doubt you couldn't run it. Again the fact you had to ask RD if you should stop says it all STOP. But again you can't you are by definition a narcissistic .

 

[NicPaus]

He posted 31k otd on pickup so I would assume so. Unless he then has to register it and pay tax.

 

[SJP]

So he's $51,500.00 plus tax, title and license?
I assume there is no additional delivery fees?

Pretty sure that is $50,500 otd after tax.

Yeah - he literally said he ordered every accessory. He is doing well, on his first wife, and no kids or pets so this is a minor speed bump.

 

[DLC]

I honestly think high schools need to implement some M&A and auditing curriculum to create questioning minds in the general public. Anyone that has had exposure to the general process of business forming, operating, merging, and going out of business look at things through a different lense. Its sinister at times but so is the real world and when money is at play people do things that the general public doesn't seem to comprehend.

I hope Speed has the resources to deliver as promised and meet its obligations along the way but QC issues late in the game after multiple missed promises doesn't usually end well.

How about HS personal Finanical class! Investing for retirement, Buying a home, college for junior….

And wait for it…..

student loans !

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

How about HS personal Finanical class! Investing for retirement, Buying a home, college for junior….

And wait for it…..

student loans !

I think lesson number 1 in those classes would be don't spend $51,000 on a rapidly depreciating asset.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Oops

Bad math but you think the peripheral fees are part of the $31K?

It's not cheap but if the car performs, it's not out of line with what these things sell for.

Speed does not give you the tax and reg fees, he may be just doing the napkin math, or not at all.

Regardless with $18k of accessories I doubt he’s need anything else. Car will be assembled with all those options for free, and they will all be under warranty.

That $50k Speed would be an $80k Pro R build.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I think lesson number 1 in those classes would be don't spend $51,000 on a rapidly depreciating asset.

His discretionary funds > Yore discretionary funds.

An $80k Pro R will lose more money in depreciation than a $50k Speed UTV with every option, that is now a $42k Speed UTV with no options at all .

If he gets it by fall, the thing will be damn near paying him to drive it.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

Speed does not give you the tax and reg fees, he may be just doing the napkin math, or not at all.

Regardless with $18k of accessories I doubt he’s need anything else. Car will be assembled with all those options for free, and they will all be under warranty.

That $50k Speed would be an $80k Pro R build.

Pretty close for sure.

I'm fortunate in that I've reached a point where I can buy whatever I want but I just can't wrap my head around $60K + for a SxS.

I did a little shopping and bought a $50K+ Polaris build for $21K when it only had 400 miles on it.
Works for me

 

[counterpart7]

So I have a friend (not on this site) with a deposit down on a car and he is #1800 something. I literally just called him and asked him his vibe on the whole deal. Did not mention the site, thread, and just listened to his commentary.

Summary of the conversation:
* He is still stoked to get his car and not stressing
* Figures hopefully by next fall
* He is 18K in accessories and 1500 down into it
* 31K OTD on arrival (was a little concerned on rates then if he wanted to finance the balance) compared to when he originally committed
* Did not want to do a full pro R build or whatever. Wanted something turn key.

I will say I did not realize he was that deep into the accessories and was playing it pretty cool. I am excited to drive the car when he gets it.

So he’s out 19.5k with no sight of when he will take delivery? Good for him, he’s much more well off than I, but that is still crazy to me.

I paid 20k for my XX, can’t imagine paying for it and then waiting a couple years to get it.

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

His discretionary funds > Yore discretionary funds.

An $80k Pro R will lose more money in depreciation than a $50k Speed UTV with every option, that is now a $42k Speed UTV with no options at all .

If he gets it by fall, the thing will be damn near paying him to drive it.

Entirely possible but everyone has their own definition of discretionary.

I would only argue that I don't think you'd need to spend $80K to match what Speed is giving him for $50K.

Probably $60-$65K though.

Also, depreciation is a complete unknown for Speed at this point. It could be a complete bust and a loss of 100%.
Unlikely but possible nonetheless.

Time will tell.


And you will too over and over and over...

 

[DLC]

Yeah - he literally said he ordered every accessory. He is doing well, on his first wife, and no kids or pets so this is a minor speed bump.

It’s really easy to get to $50 K in a sxs

My can am was over $50 in 2018 with it all set up.

OTD car w/ ext warranty was $31.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Entirely possible but everyone has their own definition of discretionary.

I would only argue that I don't think you'd need to spend $80K to match what Speed is giving him for $50K.

Probably $60-$65K though.

Also, depreciation is a complete unknown for Speed at this point. It could be a complete bust and a loss of 100%.
Unlikely but possible nonetheless.

Time will tell.


And you will too over and over and over...

Well we won’t even start with the cost of making 300 HP out of a Pro R because that will require a turbo kit that will be over $10k by the time you are done with supporting mods and tuning..

Paddles, lights, mirrors, bumpers, winch, spare tire, storage, heated carbon seats, comms, whips, windsheild wrap, beadlock wheels.

You are way over $60-$65k right there, and that is keeping the stock cage and again.. the car is down 80 HP.

With a RZR you are paying someone to do the labor to install all of the above on top of all that.

Let’s say the Speed loses half its purchased value in 5 years. That is $25k. That represents a HUGE depreciation hit of the current MSRP of $42k, plus his $18k in options for a total of $60k. That represents a 60% depreciation hit off current prices. So I’m saying the Speed will depreciate 10% more over 5 years.

We know a built RZR will lose half its value in 5 years. We have a decade of history to prove that. Let’s say he spends yore number to make an equal car that is still down 80 HP, so $65k and did all the work to install that pile of parts himself. He just lost more in depreciation owning the RZR selling it for $32.5k

 

[Lunatic Fringe]

Well we won’t even start with the cost of making 300 HP out of a Pro R because that will require a turbo kit that will be over $10k by the time you are done with supporting mods and tuning..

Paddles, lights, mirrors, bumpers, winch, spare tire, storage, heated carbon seats, comms, whips, windsheild wrap, beadlock wheels.

You are way over $60-$65k right there, and that is keeping the stock cage and again.. the car is down 80 HP.

With a RZR you are paying someone to do the labor to install all of the above on top of all that.

Let’s say the Speed loses half its purchased value in 5 years. That is $25k. That represents a HUGE depreciation hit of the current MSRP of $42k, plus his $18k in options.

We know a built RZR will lose half its value in 5 years. We have a decade of history to prove that. Let’s say he spends yore number to make an equal car that is still down 80 HP, so $65k and did all the work to install that pile of parts himself. He just lost more in depreciation owning the RZR selling it for $32.5k

Pretty much why I called them rapidly depreciating assets.

The numbers don't lie.

The variable is in the value of the unknown which is the Speed car.

We know what they cost, we don't know what they are worth.
Only after delivery and use will the actual value be known.
I'm not casting stones, just being literal.

 

[Kachina26]

Jesus, I check in on this thread once every couple of weeks just to see what’s keeping it going. This is way more negative than any “skinny tire asshole” thread. Maybe if I talk trash about SKAs this will get the lock down it so deserves.