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Speed cars hit the assembly Line

monkeyswrench

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As a percentage, any idea how many buyers purchased multiple spots as investments? Dealers or independents, for this it would be the same. I'm wondering if so many were purchased that way that it will effect the intended mark up.
If a guy has spot 5xx, for X amount, would he pony up? I'd think a few might, but some others may just wait the time if the buy it now price is double. Also, simply put, if 50% of the "sold" units are for sale, that commodity is not as rare as the initial numbers are showing. "Sold Out"....except for the ones for sale...just not being sold by manufacturer.

Crazy markups are real, we've seen that the last couple years at dealerships.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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As a percentage, any idea how many buyers purchased multiple spots as investments? Dealers or independents, for this it would be the same. I'm wondering if so many were purchased that way that it will effect the intended mark up.
If a guy has spot 5xx, for X amount, would he pony up? I'd think a few might, but some others may just wait the time if the buy it now price is double. Also, simply put, if 50% of the "sold" units are for sale, that commodity is not as rare as the initial numbers are showing. "Sold Out"....except for the ones for sale...just not being sold by manufacturer.

Crazy markups are real, we've seen that the last couple years at dealerships.

Let’s say it’s 1000 of the first couple thousand are being flipped. There are like 60 million people in the southwestern US. That does not even begin to cover the demand. There aren’t enough top line UTVs to go around as it is.
 

Lunatic Fringe

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As a percentage, any idea how many buyers purchased multiple spots as investments? Dealers or independents, for this it would be the same. I'm wondering if so many were purchased that way that it will effect the intended mark up.
If a guy has spot 5xx, for X amount, would he pony up? I'd think a few might, but some others may just wait the time if the buy it now price is double. Also, simply put, if 50% of the "sold" units are for sale, that commodity is not as rare as the initial numbers are showing. "Sold Out"....except for the ones for sale...just not being sold by manufacturer.

Crazy markups are real, we've seen that the last couple years at dealerships.

This is exactly the rub for the folks who bought many spots like 1Carl.

Experts here had said previously that dealer spots were downstream but when it appears they may have early builds also, and with their easier financing routes it's going to directly impact the private seller.

I'm guessing when the dust settles, 1Carl et al. will be happy with $5K over invoice to get out before they have to pony up and buy the finished cars.
 

RiverDave

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That warranty is confusing. Event based coverage, but if you race your warranty is voided but you get pit assistance

Then there’s events you get invited too etc.. it’s not really a warranty so much a ticket to the club.
 

DLC

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I've seen Raptors run high speed through whoops - maybe not as fast as a SxS but I've also seen them roll and bend frames and people get hurt. SxS through whoops at 65-70 may be possible but the risks are significant.

Maybe it's all bench racing and bullshitting around the fire knowing your $80,000 SxS CAN do it. Be safe. I have a family member who almost lost her arm when their SxS rolled over under 10MPH.
Semi modified Raptors are not running whoops at 65-70 unless you call wash board roads - whoops!

11.2 Frt and rear is 12 inch travel not happening with those numbers!
dry weight of 5700 plus lbs nope Not happening!
 

RiverDave

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I'd take that $70K and run.

It's going to be the extremely rare bird that finds a worm willing to part with $80-$100K.

Particularly on the secondary market.

You are under estimating the Jones’..

Me and you are the exact same page.. lol. I under estimate them as well.

But the pros that’s what they are sayin
 

DLC

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Semi modified Raptors are not running whoops at 65-70 unless you call wash board roads - whoops!

11.2 Frt and rear is 12 inch travel not happening with those numbers!
dry weight of 5700 plus lbs nope Not happening!
Can am x3 under 2,000 lbs & 200 hp
and
20 inch of travel

no problem!
 

RiverDave

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This is exactly the rub for the folks who bought many spots like 1Carl.

Experts here had said previously that dealer spots were downstream but when it appears they may have early builds also, and with their easier financing routes it's going to directly impact the private seller.

I'm guessing when the dust settles, 1Carl et al. will be happy with $5K over invoice to get out before they have to pony up and buy the finished cars.

I’m guessing you didn’t see the member that tried to buy a seadoo recently.. 14k over..

Go buy a bronco right now etc..

I bought mine for 11k below todays MSRP.. etc. Shits adding up quick.

While the numbers are staggering I can see how it gets there. I wouldn’t do it, but there’s a lot of guys that will.
 

monkeyswrench

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Let’s say it’s 1000 of the first couple thousand are being flipped. There are like 60 million people in the southwestern US. That does not even begin to cover the demand. There aren’t enough top line UTVs to go around as it is.
Of the 60m people in the southwest...lets just say I don't quite believe all are in the market;) Yes, I agree though, there aren't enough "top line UTVs"...although that statement sounds very sales brochure...and also written as the Taiwan guys speak at SEMA..."We manufacturer of top line audio and video"🤣

What I'm saying is if a large enough percentage is strictly resale for profit, there will be enough on the market to bring down those extreme numbers. Supply and demand. Not every seller will get top dollar when there are multiples for sale in the key areas.
 

Lunatic Fringe

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You are under estimating the Jones’..

Me and you are the exact same page.. lol. I under estimate them as well.

But the pros that’s what they are sayin

I am quite aware of the Jones'.
The problem as I see it is there just aren't as many of them as there will be available cars from the flipping folks.

If builds start happening at the pace they claim, cars are going to be hitting buyers quickly and there's more than a few who bought spots without ever thinking they'd have to follow through on multiple purchases.
Those are the one's who will drive down prices when they begin to panic.
 

RiverDave

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Of the 60m people in the southwest...lets just say I don't quite believe all are in the market;) Yes, I agree though, there aren't enough "top line UTVs"...although that statement sounds very sales brochure...and also written as the Taiwan guys speak at SEMA..."We manufacturer of top line audio and video"🤣

What I'm saying is if a large enough percentage is strictly resale for profit, there will be enough on the market to bring down those extreme numbers. Supply and demand. Not every seller will get top dollar when there are multiples for sale in the key areas.

I don’t know how many are flips.. I bought three originally. At one point I had five or six that were all “low” numbers.. Stscy talked me into selling some.. I wish I had em back now. Lol

At a minimum (bare minimum) I’m making 11,000 per as that’s how much the price has gone up since I bought them.
 

RiverDave

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I am quite aware of the Jones'.
The problem as I see it is there just aren't as many of them as there will be available cars from the flipping folks.

If builds start happening at the pace they claim, cars are going to be hitting buyers quickly and there's more than a few who bought spots without ever thinking they'd have to follow through on multiple purchases.
Those are the one's who will drive down prices when they begin to panic.

Interesting theory.. not sure how one could argue it one way or the other because that’s a “wait and see” situation.

Currently I have 113 & 326. I know I can sell both for stupid money. I’m keeping 326 because I’m getting an ankle surgery and won’t be able to use it most the season anyways.

113 I’m gonna sell for as much as I can get for it. Unless dude buys it for seventy in the next week or so.. I’ll do the one in the hand Bs two in the bush.

I can confidently say though I don’t think 80 will be a problem.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Of the 60m people in the southwest...lets just say I don't quite believe all are in the market;) Yes, I agree though, there aren't enough "top line UTVs"...although that statement sounds very sales brochure...and also written as the Taiwan guys speak at SEMA..."We manufacturer of top line audio and video"🤣

What I'm saying is if a large enough percentage is strictly resale for profit, there will be enough on the market to bring down those extreme numbers. Supply and demand. Not every seller will get top dollar when there are multiples for sale in the key areas.

You need 1000 out of 60M. I’ll take those odds. Have you been out to any riding area recently? Those people willing to have the latest and greatest now are out there in force. Lots of them.

I understand what you are saying. However there are not going to be 2000 of these dumped on the market in 3 months. Like I said, there is a window of opportunity here, probably this season.

People were paying more for lesser cars last weekend.. a lot of them.

People are paying premiums for Pro Rs still today.

Look at all the people still paying markups for C8 corvettes.
 
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Singleton

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Interesting theory.. not sure how one could argue it one way or the other because that’s a “wait and see” situation.

Currently I have 113 & 326. I know I can sell both for stupid money. I’m keeping 326 because I’m getting an ankle surgery and won’t be able to use it most the season anyways.

113 I’m gonna sell for as much as I can get for it. Unless dude buys it for seventy in the next week or so.. I’ll do the one in the hand Bs two in the bush.

I can confidently say though I don’t think 80 will be a problem.

70-80 will be a good number, unless dealers have the units being stated above.
If dealers are selling at 60k, your numbers will be impacted. And just like RV’s, dealers will quickly prioritize warranty work for units sold through them vs direct. That would push me into a dealer unit.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Interesting theory.. not sure how one could argue it one way or the other because that’s a “wait and see” situation.

Currently I have 113 & 326. I know I can sell both for stupid money. I’m keeping 326 because I’m getting an ankle surgery and won’t be able to use it most the season anyways.

113 I’m gonna sell for as much as I can get for it. Unless dude buys it for seventy in the next week or so.. I’ll do the one in the hand Bs two in the bush.

I can confidently say though I don’t think 80 will be a problem.

These guys argued we’d be losing money 18 months ago, now it’s you won’t find a buyer to pay your price, you won’t make the profit you are thinking 😂.
 

bonesfab

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It is radiused around the cage, can see it the best from the below picture. Doesn't look to be done as cleanly as they did it on the XX (something LOF already agreed on) but it is radiused.

307775014_5390635390990993_9146940078443072510_n-jpg-a1ade03798940c02fcd0aa84350aacdd-jpg.1155920
The problem with that is it will rip out that section of tube eventually. Having longer legs to attach to more would be better.
 

Lunatic Fringe

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Interesting theory.. not sure how one could argue it one way or the other because that’s a “wait and see” situation.

Currently I have 113 & 326. I know I can sell both for stupid money. I’m keeping 326 because I’m getting an ankle surgery and won’t be able to use it most the season anyways.

113 I’m gonna sell for as much as I can get for it. Unless dude buys it for seventy in the next week or so.. I’ll do the one in the hand Bs two in the bush.

I can confidently say though I don’t think 80 will be a problem.

You're in a unique position in that you have early builds that are fully optioned and you cast a wider net of marketing than most private sellers.

I don't mean to pick on 1Carl but he put himself out there with all his purchase information so that's the only factual basis I have for an example.

Assuming others have done the same as he did, not all will have the capability of following through on multiple purchases and as production goes on, those sellers are going to start to dump closer to cost.
There's going to be more than a few needing to sell and they will be competing with each other.

Patience is a virtue and also a money saver. 👍
 

Lunatic Fringe

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These guys argued we’d be losing money 18 months ago, now it’s you won’t find a buyer to pay your price, you won’t make the profit you are thinking 😂.
Have you proven anyone wrong with that yet?
Nobody argued you'd lose money and nobody is arguing you wont get your price
It's simply a discussion of what may possibly happen.

Your propensity to speak in absolutes detracts from the knowledge you actually can share.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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70-80 will be a good number, unless dealers have the units being stated above.
If dealers are selling at 60k, your numbers will be impacted. And just like RV’s, dealers will quickly prioritize warranty work for units sold through them vs direct. That would push me into a dealer unit.

No dealer is selling for $60k when they are trying to sell a stock as a rock Pro R for over $50k, modded Pro Rs for over $60k approaching $70k and modded 64” pro Xps for close to 60k.

Now factor in it is one of the first couple hundred out anywhere.

Unless we are betting on a total economic collapse starting tomorrow, the markup will be big.
 

RiverDave

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70-80 will be a good number, unless dealers have the units being stated above.
If dealers are selling at 60k, your numbers will be impacted. And just like RV’s, dealers will quickly prioritize warranty work for units sold through them vs direct. That would push me into a dealer unit.

Morgan motorsports is the warranty center.. I’m not sure how a dealer would get priority.. ?

But I believe 113 will go for at least 80.. again it’s fully optioned out though and that’s the car sitting in the driveway. Not a spot in line (like Carl is selling)

Either way we will find out. I am happy where I’m at and my biggest regret is not having more of them.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Have you proven anyone wrong with that yet?
Nobody argued you'd lose money and nobody is arguing you wont get your price
It's simply a discussion of what may possibly happen.

Your propensity to speak in absolutes detracts from the knowledge you actually can share.

Because it’s absolutely true.

Plenty of people said we’d lose money. They said speed would go belly up and we’d never get the car. They said speed would deliver the car and because it’s not proven the cars would be worth nothing, they also said speed would deliver the cars, then go bankrupt and the resale of the cars will tank. 😂

People said they hoped Carl made no money at all.

I speak in absolutes when things absolutely happened.
 

RiverDave

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You're in a unique position in that you have early builds that are fully optioned and you cast a wider net of marketing than most private sellers.

I don't mean to pick on 1Carl but he put himself out there with all his purchase information so that's the only factual basis I have for an example.

Assuming others have done the same as he did, not all will have the capability of following through on multiple purchases and as production goes on, those sellers are going to start to dump closer to cost.
There's going to be more than a few needing to sell and they will be competing with each other.

Patience is a virtue and also a money saver. 👍

Someone posted that Carl is getting a divorce and his wife isn’t gonna allow any of the purchases on a speed page. I offered to buy all the spots at 3k over each.

It’s in fb so who knows if it’s true 8B548542-24AA-4CF5-9D86-D889860A7048.png
 

grumpy88

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Morgan motorsports is the warranty center.. I’m not sure how a dealer would get priority.. ?

But I believe 113 will go for at least 80.. again it’s fully optioned out though and that’s the car sitting in the driveway. Not a spot in line (like Carl is selling)

Either way we will find out. I am happy where I’m at and my biggest regret is not having more of them.
Or not having one at all at this point ?
 

Lunatic Fringe

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Um yea plenty of people said we’d lose money. They said speed would go belly up and we’d never get the car. They said speed would deliver the car and because it’s not proven the cars would be worth nothing, they also said speed would deliver the cars, then go bankrupt and the resale of the cars will tank. 😂

That may be what you read but it really wasn't what was written.

Members pointed out what they perceived to be weaknesses and others asked questions.
Some remarked on incorrect information but you had/have a tendency to read in an adversarial tone to most posts by others. Sometimes it was there but many times it wasn't.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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That may be what you read but it really wasn't what was written.

Members pointed out what they perceived to be weaknesses and others asked questions.
Some remarked on incorrect information but you had/have a tendency to read in an adversarial tone to most posts by others. Sometimes it was there but many times it wasn't.

No that is what they said. They said it many times. They also said cars won’t be at SSSS 2021, they said cars won’t be built by April 2022, and said cars won’t be at SSSS 2022 just to name a few.

Sometimes you have a tendency to read too much into a post and assume what someone’s tone actually was and respond adversarially.
 

Singleton

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Morgan motorsports is the warranty center.. I’m not sure how a dealer would get priority.. ?

But I believe 113 will go for at least 80.. again it’s fully optioned out though and that’s the car sitting in the driveway. Not a spot in line (like Carl is selling)

Either way we will find out. I am happy where I’m at and my biggest regret is not having more of them.
So Coyne is not a warranty shop? If the dealer you purchase from is not an authorized warranty shop, that causes some issues.
If Morgan is the only spot, that F’s everyone that does not live within a couple hours.
 

RiverDave

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Or not having one at all at this point ?

When I say my cars are optioned out.. I bought the trail kit which comes with extra axles and parts etc.. lol.

I’m not really sure I need a warranty center.. but if I do I know Jason personally. I don’t think I will have a problem a problem getting in. He built my kids ranger 150 as well
 

monkeyswrench

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These guys argued we’d be losing money 18 months ago, now it’s you won’t find a buyer to pay your price, you won’t make the profit you are thinking 😂.
You seem to be more standoffish I'd say...Maybe you hadn't noticed, I'm about one of the most level headed individuals in this circus. You being the numbers guy, I thought you'd not be too distraught over someone actually questioning the variables involved in regards to future sales of an as yet to be supplied commodity.
 

Lunatic Fringe

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No that is what they said. They said it many times. They also said cars won’t be at SSSS 2021, they said cars won’t be built by April 2022, and said cars won’t betat SSSS 2022 just to name a few.

Sometimes you have a tendency to read too much into a post and assume what someone’s tone actually was and respond adversarially.
At the risk of being adversarial, I disagree.
 

RiverDave

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That may be what you read but it really wasn't what was written.

Members pointed out what they perceived to be weaknesses and others asked questions.
Some remarked on incorrect information but you had/have a tendency to read in an adversarial tone to most posts by others. Sometimes it was there but many times it wasn't.

Oh c’mon.. even me who doesn’t argue will say I read that a 100 times.
Ponzi scheme
Never going to get them
Belly up after delivery
Junk when you get them

And a hundred other things.. that was quite clear a million times.

That said I am not saying “you” said it because I don’t remember who wrote it all but I have read it a hundred times
 

Lunatic Fringe

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Oh c’mon.. even me who doesn’t argue will say I read that a 100 times.
Ponzi scheme
Never going to get them
Belly up after delivery
Junk when you get them

And a hundred other things.. that was quite clear a million times.

That said I am not saying “you” said it because I don’t remember who wrote it all but I have read it a hundred times
And you believe those comments were not almost without exception made to see LOF go bonkers?

There are a few on the forums here who may have "crazy" ideas but for the most part the membership here is pretty well thought out.
 

RiverDave

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And you believe those comments were not almost without exception made to see LOF go bonkers?

There are a few on the forums here who may have "crazy" ideas but for the most part the membership here is pretty well thought out.

Lol oh I think some of them were for LOF.. that said they were said many times.
 

NicPaus

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Bert’s prices were nuts. I think the first 100 will go for that kind of money because the same FUD in this thread - “Speed will make 100 and not make any more for 6 months.”

This will especially be true if what I heard about Coyne having 40 of the first 100 is accurate. You can pretty much follow them right to high retail when you get yours.

As for Carl, yea it was nuts without a car in the garage, but if what the haters say is true and he’s only making 10 at a time in his garage in China, it will just be a supply and demand thing.

If what RG says and the pics on his phone are true, there is only a few month window of crazy markups and $80k loaded Speed cars... then it is just normal markups.

Or believe the trolls that still say it’s a Ponzi scheme and we will never get a car.


We made offers at each dealership. Bert's actually had the best OTD price. Those listed prices didn't mean anything. Make offer and go from there.
 
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