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Speed UTV take 3

rivrrts429

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I usually agree with you but there is nothing about 50 year old a-arm design and what like 75 year old trailing arm design that Can Am or Polaris or you or I could build if we wanted to.

The radius arm was designed to lighten the weight of the machine.

You really think an a-arm design is something that Robbie has the market cornered on?


Nothing to do with A-Arms
 

Romans9

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Nothing to do with A-Arms

Enlighten me.


What is it that Robbie has done that has never been done before?
What would stand up to a lawsuit in court?
You can patten almost anything you want, defending that in court is a whole different issue.

This repeating idea that Speed has some kind of never before suspension geometry is absurd.
 

HTTP404

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Enlighten me.


What is it that Robbie has done that has never been done before?
What would stand up to a lawsuit in court?
You can patten almost anything you want, defending that in court is a whole different issue.

This repeating idea that Speed has some kind of never before suspension geometry is absurd.
He obtained patents on some suspension designs specific to UTVs.
 

Raffit78

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Here are the patents https://patents.justia.com/inventor/robby-gordon he has obtained. However, If what above is said is true and the A-arm technology and others have previously been around. He would have to prove in court how his is an original. You can patent anything it's a "novelty", it's getting the court to agree that your patent is vastly different then the original. Against "prior art" is a hard one to defend.
 

NIKAL

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I usually agree with you but there is nothing about 50 year old a-arm design and what like 75 year old trailing arm design that Can Am or Polaris or you or I could build if we wanted to.

The radius arm was designed to lighten the weight of the machine.

You really think an a-arm design is something that Robbie has the market cornered on?
The radius rod design was not about lightening the weight of the car or unsprung weight. That was not even on their radar at the time. It was to increase wheel travel. Polaris had only done rear a-arm suspension prior to the XP900, and the most travel they could get due to width and pivot locations was 12-13 inches in the rear, plus they did not know how to get plunge in the cv’s. So they came up with using the 3 link design that allowed for more wheel travel and very little cv/axle plunge. But with the trailing arm/radius rod design it created other geometry issues, like several inches of toe change, and lots of track width changes. But for Polaris it was the trade off to get 14 inches of rear travel on the XP900, and later 18 inches on the XP 1000.

The traditional rear “VW style” trailing arm is less complicated and stronger, and if Polaris or Can Am could have figured out how to get the wheel travel they wanted, they probably would have preferred to use a single trailing arm. Both of those brands still struggle with suspension geometry, and advertised wheel travel numbers are still more important to both of them vs proper wheel travel.
 

RiverDave

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Several people have received their speed keys now..
 

NIKAL

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They might keep up with the others now
Not if Speed can’t get control the CVT issues. I do know there are things in the works from both Speed & outside of Speed. The question them becomes, what’s the cost to the consumer to fix or band aid to minimize the problem? Right now Speed is selling a $600 CVT cover with a fan, which imo is a horrible bandaid and does nothing for the actual problem, and only creates other problems with the system not being sealed and changes the designed air flow pattern.

They need to start with alignment, then once you know your two pulleys are aligned, then look at how each component is working. Heard of sticking sliders in the primary. Heared there’s not enough float in the secondary, and some ramp angles on the helix need improving.

I’m also a strong believer that they still have an air flow problem and one of my fixes, Robby acknowledged was coming. The other, I’m not so sure they will be the one to fix it. But maybe I can find an aftermarket that wants to help me fix that problem.
 

stonehenge

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Did Speed go over the release of liability and explain what is no longer covered under the extended “White Glove” warranty ?
According to robbie himself, it was never covered under the warranty or the white glove warranty? It was brought up in a recent video, and in the comments, and he addresses it personally, in detail. Now this is according to RWG himself, so who knows?
 

stonehenge

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CVT temps, belt alignment, over heating issues, tranny concerns.... all those don't mean nada, now with the speed key out, it will be a true game changer!

Slap some speed paddles on that bad boy and hit the big dunes! Can't wait!

Let the good times roll!









 

zhandfull

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According to robbie himself, it was never covered under the warranty or the white glove warranty? It was brought up in a recent video, and in the comments, and he addresses it personally, in detail. Now this is according to RWG himself, so who knows?
Thought I remember from the beginning that the Speed key voided any warranty.

Brilliant when you think about it. 😁
 

RiverDave

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Thought I remember from the beginning that the Speed key voided any warranty.

Brilliant when you think about it. 😁

I remembered it that way but right on their own website it says the white glove warranty covers it..

So not sure? I will get the key but I’ll never use it.

RD
 

NIKAL

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Speed key is warranted under the extended warranty, but there are some exclusions, due to having to add top end lube.

Also just signing the docs to get the key basically is like activating and using the Speed key. As soon as you sign the Speed key docs, those items listed will not be warranted.

So my understanding is if you have no intention to use the Key, don’t sign and take possession of it.
 

outboard_256

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You don’t void your warranty for taking delivery of it.. nobody is even sure if it voids the white glove if you use it..

That's good to know. I bet most people will take delivery of the speed key for resale value even if they don't use it themselves.
 

crzy2bealive

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Here are the patents https://patents.justia.com/inventor/robby-gordon he has obtained. However, If what above is said is true and the A-arm technology and others have previously been around. He would have to prove in court how his is an original. You can patent anything it's a "novelty", it's getting the court to agree that your patent is vastly different then the original. Against "prior art" is a hard one to defend.
As Elon musk said, patents are for pussys
 

RiverDave

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Watch the whole video the speeds are by far and away better than everything else

 

JayBreww

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Watch the whole video the speeds are by far and away better than everything else

I’m too poor to be able to watch that link… speed group only.
 
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sandshark1

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Polaris and Canned Ham would love to have the rest of Robby’s suspension patents. Until those patents expire everyone else is stuck with radius arm level technology.

Can Am had a trailing arm design with no radius rods on the Commander back in 2010. So I doubt his patent would hold up. The AC wildcat I believe had the shock mounted to the lower front a-arm back in 2012. All long before RG got patents.
 

Albacore

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I do not believe it is the actual arm design. It is the deep plunging CV units that make his stuff somewhat unique is what his patent is on from what I can remember and what I have read.
 

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NIKAL

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Can Am had a trailing arm design with no radius rods on the Commander back in 2010. So I doubt his patent would hold up. The AC wildcat I believe had the shock mounted to the lower front a-arm back in 2012. All long before RG got patents.
Yes the 2010 had a type of rear trailing arm, it’s very different in its mounting design and pivots. Can am called theirs a Torsional Trailing Independent (TTI) It had a single pivot point off the chassis and the arms were very weak to side loading. There design was only capable of 10 inches of wheel travel. I think if they would have figured out how to get wheel travel they might have stuck with the design concept and developed it more.

But with their inherent weak arm design, and with not being able to compete with the radius rod design rear trailing arms, Can Am ditched it.

As far as Speeds design, it’s clearly different enough to be granted a patent in the UTV industry. I assume that’s the only place the Speed trailing arm is patent protected, as we all know where the arm design came from. Unlike the Can Am Commander arm, It has two independent pivot points, the arm is reversible. The hub assembly mounting is totally different, and with the Speed designed plunging cv housing, its capable of big wheel travel #’s.
 

sandshark1

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Yes the 2010 had a type of rear trailing arm, it’s very different in its mounting design and pivots. Can am called theirs a Torsional Trailing Independent (TTI) It had a single pivot point off the chassis and the arms were very weak to side loading. There design was only capable of 10 inches of wheel travel. I think if they would have figured out how to get wheel travel they might have stuck with the design concept and developed it more.

But with their inherent weak arm design, and with not being able to compete with the radius rod design rear trailing arms, Can Am ditched it.

As far as Speeds design, it’s clearly different enough to be granted a patent in the UTV industry. I assume that’s the only place the Speed trailing arm is patent protected, as we all know where the arm design came from. Unlike the Can Am Commander arm, It has two independent pivot points, the arm is reversible. The hub assembly mounting is totally different, and with the Speed designed plunging cv housing, its capable of big wheel travel #’s.

The Can Am design was okay. A few friends had Commanders. They put long travel kits on them. They were sketchy to drive over 60MPH. The long bolt used to mount it to the frame was a weak spot.

Speed design is different and to get around the patent the other OEMs would just change some stuff. Polaris and Can Am have front shocks mounted to the lower arm, which Speed has a patent on.
 

rivermobster

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I remembered it that way but right on their own website it says the white glove warranty covers it..

So not sure? I will get the key but I’ll never use it.

RD

The "White Glove" warranty, is an aftermarket warranty. I can almost guarantee you (from working in automotive industry, and dealing with aftermarket warranties most of my life), they won't be covering a whole lot of anything on that car.
 

RiverDave

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The "White Glove" warranty, is an aftermarket warranty. I can almost guarantee you (from working in automotive industry, and dealing with aftermarket warranties most of my life), they won't be covering a whole lot of anything on that car.

Yeah that deal isn’t what I’d thought it would he for sure. I figured it was all through speed and you are right it’s aftermarket.

There are some other things that go with it though.. group rides with chase trucks etc..

Albeit I’m not sure if they have done one yet.
 

NIKAL

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The "White Glove" warranty, is an aftermarket warranty. I can almost guarantee you (from working in automotive industry, and dealing with aftermarket warranties most of my life), they won't be covering a whole lot of anything on that car.
Yes it is a 3rd party warranty through RPM I believe? It’s the same type of 3rd party warranty that you would get from any of the UTV dealerships. I’ve spoke to a few people who have used the Speed extended warranty, and everything was covered. The biggest support comes from Speed as they are the ones inspecting and filing the claim, as your taking the car back to Speed for the claim & repair. So if Speed is filing the claim, it’s most likely going to get accepted, as Speed & RPM are partnered to sell & support the warranty.

Todd Romano brought this up one day in conversation. He said if another aftermarket warranty company wants to support the Speed product, he’s fine & happy about that. But if they deny a claim, because it’s not a warranty bought & supported by Speed, then Speed itself can’t help or go to batt for you. With the Speed extended warranty by RPM they are definitely going to make sure your covered.

Now with this all said, it sounds like the Speed Key will have exclusions on the Speed/RPM warranty. Originally this was not the case when they marketed the warranty. But with the release of the Speed Key, now things like Piston rings are not covered. CVT & Axles might not be covered. But this is if you get the Speed key. If not and leave it at the standard tune, then those things would be covered, unless abuse was the cause of the failure. All in All there are some things in the warranty they need to clarify, especially if activating the Speed key.
 

rivermobster

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Yes it is a 3rd party warranty through RPM I believe? It’s the same type of 3rd party warranty that you would get from any of the UTV dealerships. I’ve spoke to a few people who have used the Speed extended warranty, and everything was covered. The biggest support comes from Speed as they are the ones inspecting and filing the claim, as your taking the car back to Speed for the claim & repair. So if Speed is filing the claim, it’s most likely going to get accepted, as Speed & RPM are partnered to sell & support the warranty.

Todd Romano brought this up one day in conversation. He said if another aftermarket warranty company wants to support the Speed product, he’s fine & happy about that. But if they deny a claim, because it’s not a warranty bought & supported by Speed, then Speed itself can’t help or go to batt for you. With the Speed extended warranty by RPM they are definitely going to make sure your covered.

Now with this all said, it sounds like the Speed Key will have exclusions on the Speed/RPM warranty. Originally this was not the case when they marketed the warranty. But with the release of the Speed Key, now things like Piston rings are not covered. CVT & Axles might not be covered. But this is if you get the Speed key. If not and leave it at the standard tune, then those things would be covered, unless abuse was the cause of the failure. All in All there are some things in the warranty they need to clarify, especially if activating the Speed key.

So if some dealership/repair shop, in BFE is filing the claim, it's not gonna be accepted?? 🤔

Let's say you take your car into the dealership (any dealership) for an issue. The dealership WILL inspect and diagnose the problem, and then submit it to the warranty company, FOR APPROVAL TO BE PAID BY THEM.

The warranty company will NOT approve anything that does not fall within their guidelines. No matter WHO submits that claim. The manufacturer (Speed, Ford, Dodge, Honda, ect...) is completely out of the picture at that point, with respect to what will be paid by the warranty company, or not.

Now, CAN the manufacturer step up, and warranty the repair at their discretion? Of course they can.

The only thing that really matters, Is what is in writing. Everything else is discretionary...


The Speed UTV White Glove Extended Service Agreement is specifically tailored to accommodate the use of the Speed Key and the awe-inspiring 300 HP tune. Please note that the agreement is voided if the vehicle is used in any sanctioned race event.

Looks like personal use of the Speed Key WILL be covered. So if it was me, I'd be driving the living shit outa the car, while it was still covered under the original warranty! 😁



P.S. See post #3730 here for the actual Stated aftermarket coverage: https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/threads/speed-utv-take-3.261718/page-75
 

NIKAL

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So if some dealership/repair shop, in BFE is filing the claim, it's not gonna be accepted?? 🤔

Let's say you take your car into the dealership (any dealership) for an issue. The dealership WILL inspect and diagnose the problem, and then submit it to the warranty company, FOR APPROVAL TO BE PAID BY THEM.

The warranty company will NOT approve anything that does not fall within their guidelines. No matter WHO submits that claim. The manufacturer (Speed, Ford, Dodge, Honda, ect...) is completely out of the picture at that point, with respect to what will be paid by the warranty company, or not.

Now, CAN the manufacturer step up, and warranty the repair at their discretion? Of course they can.

The only thing that really matters, Is what is in writing. Everything else is discretionary...


The Speed UTV White Glove Extended Service Agreement is specifically tailored to accommodate the use of the Speed Key and the awe-inspiring 300 HP tune. Please note that the agreement is voided if the vehicle is used in any sanctioned race event.

Looks like personal use of the Speed Key WILL be covered. So if it was me, I'd be driving the living shit outa the car, while it was still covered under the original warranty! 😁



P.S. See post #3730 here for the actual Stated aftermarket coverage: https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/threads/speed-utv-take-3.261718/page-75
Who said if another shop was in BFE a warranty claim would not be accepted? First off would that BFE shop be an authorized Speed dealer or repair facility? Is Speed even going to have independent dealers? Does not sound like it. If it’s some BFE shop I don’t think they are going to know how to file a claim, I highly doubt they are going to be on the warranty companies approved list anyways.

And not true that it does not matter who submits the claim. Coyne submitted a claim for my Brother in law and at first it was denied. Coyne made several phone calls and after getting to the right person the claim was accepted. They told him we push hard to get claims approved, unless it’s clearly abused. If claims constantly get denied, then the dealers selling this warranty’s will quit and find another warranty company, as they don’t want to turn their customers down, as its them that sells the warranty for the warranty company in the first place.

Btw I’m told the Speed / RPM warranty is a joint partnership of sorts as Speed is more involved, being the actual manufacture and the ones who set up the warranty. Atleast that’s the way Todd Romano was explaining it to me. But who knows, maybe it was all BS? But like I said, a few I’ve spoke to said they got everything covered without issues.
 

rivermobster

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Who said if another shop was in BFE a warranty claim would not be accepted? First off would that BFE shop be an authorized Speed dealer or repair facility? Is Speed even going to have independent dealers? Does not sound like it. If it’s some BFE shop I don’t think they are going to know how to file a claim, I highly doubt they are going to be on the warranty companies approved list anyways.

And not true that it does not matter who submits the claim. Coyne submitted a claim for my Brother in law and at first it was denied. Coyne made several phone calls and after getting to the right person the claim was accepted. They told him we push hard to get claims approved, unless it’s clearly abused. If claims constantly get denied, then the dealers selling this warranty’s will quit and find another warranty company, as they don’t want to turn their customers down, as its them that sells the warranty for the warranty company in the first place.

Btw I’m told the Speed / RPM warranty is a joint partnership of sorts as Speed is more involved, being the actual manufacture and the ones who set up the warranty. Atleast that’s the way Todd Romano was explaining it to me. But who knows, maybe it was all BS? But like I said, a few I’ve spoke to said they got everything covered without issues.

You implied that IF Speed submitted the claim, that it would be approved.

Yeah?

All I'm saying is...

ANY shop can submit a claim. The Approval of that claim, will be based on a written contract.

😊
 

RiverDave

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It is going to be a glorious season in Glamis with all the Speed key guys wanting to scatter belts like bread crumbs across sand highway and Olds. LMAO!!!!!

I have close to 700 miles on mine and no belt issues or belt temp issues.. I think a lot of these guys were having alignment issues at first.

I’m not even planning on doing the fans on the clutch covers yet until I see a reason too?
 

sandshark1

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Yes it is a 3rd party warranty through RPM I believe? It’s the same type of 3rd party warranty that you would get from any of the UTV dealerships. I’ve spoke to a few people who have used the Speed extended warranty, and everything was covered. The biggest support comes from Speed as they are the ones inspecting and filing the claim, as your taking the car back to Speed for the claim & repair. So if Speed is filing the claim, it’s most likely going to get accepted, as Speed & RPM are partnered to sell & support the warranty.

Todd Romano brought this up one day in conversation. He said if another aftermarket warranty company wants to support the Speed product, he’s fine & happy about that. But if they deny a claim, because it’s not a warranty bought & supported by Speed, then Speed itself can’t help or go to batt for you. With the Speed extended warranty by RPM they are definitely going to make sure your covered.

Now with this all said, it sounds like the Speed Key will have exclusions on the Speed/RPM warranty. Originally this was not the case when they marketed the warranty. But with the release of the Speed Key, now things like Piston rings are not covered. CVT & Axles might not be covered. But this is if you get the Speed key. If not and leave it at the standard tune, then those things would be covered, unless abuse was the cause of the failure. All in All there are some things in the warranty they need to clarify, especially if activating the Speed key.

No different then a dealer that pushes RPM warranties or another aftermarket warranty. If that dealer has a good relationship with the warranty company things get approved more often.
 

sandshark1

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I have close to 700 miles on mine and no belt issues or belt temp issues.. I think a lot of these guys were having alignment issues at first.

I’m not even planning on doing the fans on the clutch covers yet until I see a reason too?

Desert riding is less stressful on the belts. Heavy 4 seat car in the dunes a different story. Only time I killed a belt in the desert was going over 90mph on a dry lake bed for several miles.

The clutch cover with a fan is a bandaid at best in my opinion. A lot of the things being tried with extra fans was done before on other UTVs with little success.

As Nikal has pointed out airflow is an issue along with alignment issues.
 
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Fishd00d

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I have close to 700 miles on mine and no belt issues or belt temp issues.. I think a lot of these guys were having alignment issues at first.

I’m not even planning on doing the fans on the clutch covers yet until I see a reason too?
Cruising around Havasu is MUCH different than Glamis or racing.......
 

zhandfull

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This thread has really slowed down.

Seems like a decent deal for a well optioned UTV.

IMG_3909.png


Lot of Speed UTV’s just sitting on the secondary market.
 
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