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Steering setups. dual rotary vs hydraulic

Discussion in 'V-Drives' started by motormonkey, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. motormonkey

    motormonkey Well-Known Member

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    Whats the opinion or facts about manual hydraulic vs a dual rotory cable helm. Steering setup on a 21rc.
     
  2. lenmann

    lenmann Well-Known Member

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    This is a topic I have been interested in for a while as someday I will need steering for my long term, snowball, mother f-Er 21 RC. There have been a couple of pretty good threads exploring it, copied one below.

    Consensus seems to be full hydraulic is the state of the art. Not to mention you can't get parts or cables for the old Morse dual cable units.

    https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/threads/v-drive-hydraulic-steering.28654/
     
  3. motormonkey

    motormonkey Well-Known Member

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    I read that thread and liked the info.
    What about sea star SS14813 or similar.
     
  4. motormonkey

    motormonkey Well-Known Member

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    Or the dual rack. SS152 from teleflex.
     
  5. lenmann

    lenmann Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that the commercially available rotary and rack systems are for lower horsepower applications. My RC has a 1100hp TT going in it so I found the hydraulic thread above and stopped looking at cable based systems. The Morse Command 2 system that was on my boat originally is a little sloppy and needs cables.
     
  6. BamBam

    BamBam Well-Known Member

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    There are adjustments to take the slop out of an old Morse dual cable system. If you need to replace it your best bet is probably hydraulic (except for the cost)
     
  7. sintax

    sintax Well-Known Member

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    yea, i have a single cable setup on my Rayson right now, but i've done a little work on researching hydraulic. It seems to be the setup.

    Whos the goto person for this?
     
  8. Blownbillybob

    Blownbillybob Well-Known Member

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    With a cable helm ur gonna fight the prop thrust
    Manual hyd u will not fight the thrust but got put some elbow in it to turn

    Power hyd. 1 finger all day at 100 mph

    Don’t know off hand any 1 actually making a kit. It’s all custom made stuff but usuing a lot of existing off shelf parts from marine and OHV manufacturers

    Boostpower might be able to help??
     
  9. sintax

    sintax Well-Known Member

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    Yea, I setup full hydro steering on my jeep using a mix of PSC and Tractor Supply Hardware parts. But thats my jeep.

    I'd love to do something nice on the boat.
     
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  10. motormonkey

    motormonkey Well-Known Member

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    I have out board rudder setup on this and don't believe I'll have too much prop wash as I've had with my last two vdrives. So maybe hydraulic would be overkill.
    Calgo worth doing?
     
  11. farmo83

    farmo83 Well-Known Member

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    BoostPower, Teague, Prime ? Maybe Schiada themselves ?
     
  12. lenmann

    lenmann Well-Known Member

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    @Racey has a ton of practical experience in this arena. Last time I saw him post on the subject he recommended calling Ron at IMCO Las Vegas. I don't believe there is an off the shelf "kit" but they sell all of the components and can configure a full hydraulic system to meet your needs.
     
  13. Racey

    Racey Maxwell Smart-Ass

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    Yes, call Ron.

    If you go single ram you want to go for the 5/8" diameter ram, not the 1", this makes for a better close balance of equal turns lock to lock. Dual Rams will be balanced lock to lock, but you have twice the plumbing and shit in the way back there.

    Honestly the single ram is more than enough strength wise, and really simplifies the rigging, makes everything cleaner.

    I just replaced strut bearings and rudder stuffing in the 22 we built about 15 years ago with the dual rams... in hindsight i wish we would have just put single ram in there to keep it open and make it easier to get to all the stiff ass stainless teflon hoses.

    If you do single ram you want to orient the ram so that you get the quicker steering response in the direction that the boat naturally doesn't want to turn. So for standard rotation this is turning to the left, you want to be pushing the fluid into the front end of the ram (where the rod comes out) to turn that direction. It's the smaller volume so it will move faster.
     
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  14. sintax

    sintax Well-Known Member

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    You bring up some good points there, and stuff I have not thought about in a while.

    Are there any safety concerns with running a single ram setup for a "fast boat"? Are the marine helms essentially orbital valves with a steering wheel attached? Can you run one that will still pump fluid if the engine dies?
     
  15. Brokeboatin221

    Brokeboatin221 Well-Known Member

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    Nothing Racey builds is slow and he’s one of the best out there. His advice is about the best you can get. Super grateful for his chime ins!
     
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  16. Racey

    Racey Maxwell Smart-Ass

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    I imagine that if you had a hose failure with a dual ram you would be better off since one side will always be under hydraulic compression, Actually, you are still screwed because the compression end of one cylinder is tied to the opposite side of the other, also under hydraulic compression.
    If you have a hose failure on the compression side of a single ram, and that happened to be in the direction of the rudder torque, it would squeeze all the fluid out... this would make the boat begin to turn uncontrollably, but probably not rapidly unless the entire line broke off. Kind of a moot point since if you break a steering cable the same thing would happen only much faster.

    Yes the marine helms are a kind of orbital servo, Char-Lynn. I'm not well versed in all the terminology of hydraulic systems, but the way the steering valve works it essentially opens up fluid passages until it catches up to itself and seals them back off, There are some videos on YouTube of guys disassembling Char-Lynns, it takes some imagination to understand how they work as there isn't a whole lot to see inside, just some very precise fitting hydraulic ports between the rotating hub and the body of the valve.

    A Char-Lynn has a pump built in and will pump fluid with the engine off, it is just stiff, but you can turn the wheel and get output.

    If you get your stuff from IMCO i highly recommend having them build you lines as well. They make a super nice swedged line to exact custom lengths, that is teflon and smooth black on the outside, easy to clean, and doesn't snag with barbs of normal braided line. All stainless fittings.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019

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