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Stock market today….oh oh

78Southwind

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Lehman Brothers 2.0 - All eyes on the CCP
(Talkin' 'bout your china grove)
Whoa, oh (whoa, oh) China Grove

I have been watching this unfold for the last couple of weeks. It does not look good a lot of the debt is in USD and they have already borrowed more money from their employees.

https://www.business-standard.com/a...s-cash-or-lose-your-bonus-121092000049_1.html

Evergrande gave workers a choice: loan us cash or lose your bonus

The Chinese property giant owes $300 billion and is on the hook for 1.6 million apartments. It may owe tens of thousands of its employees money, too.
When the troubled Chinese property giant Evergrande was starved for cash earlier this year, it turned to its own employees with a strong-arm pitch: Those who wanted to keep their bonuses would have to give Evergrande a short-term loan.

Some workers tapped their friends and family for money to lend to the company. Others borrowed from the bank. Then, this month, Evergrande suddenly stopped paying back the loans, which had been packaged as high-interest investments.


Now, hundreds of employees have joined panicked home buyers in demanding their money back from Evergrande, gathering outside the company’s offices across China to protest last week.

Once China’s most prolific property developer, Evergrande has become the country’s most indebted company. It owes money to lenders, suppliers and foreign investors. It owes unfinished apartments to home buyers and has racked up more than $300 billion in unpaid bills. Evergrande faces lawsuits from creditors and has seen its shares lose more than 80 percent of their value this year.

Regulators fear that the collapse of a company Evergrande’s size would send tremors through the entire Chinese financial system. Yet so far, Beijing has not stepped in with a bailout, having promised to teach debt-saddled corporate giants a lesson.

The angry protests led by home buyers — and now the company’s own employees — may change that calculus.

Evergrande is on the hook to buyers for nearly 1.6 million apartments, according to one estimate, and it may owe money to tens of thousands of its workers.

As Beijing remains relatively quiet about the company’s future, those who are owed cash say they are growing impatient.

“There isn’t much time left for us,” said Jin Cheng, a 28-year-old employee in the eastern city of Hefei who said he put $62,000 of his own money into Evergrande Wealth, the company’s investment arm, at the request of senior management.

As rumors rippled through the Chinese internet that Evergrande might go bankrupt this month, Jin and some of his colleagues gathered in front of provincial government offices to pressure the authorities to step in.

In the southern city of Shenzhen, home buyers and employees crowded into the lobby of Evergrande’s headquarters last week and shouted for their money back. “Evergrande, give back my money I earned with blood and sweat!” some could be heard yelling in video footage.

Jin said employees at Fangchebao, Evergrande’s online platform for real estate and automobile sales, were told that each department had to put monthly investments into Evergrande Wealth. Evergrande did not respond to a request for comment, but the company recently warned that it was under “tremendous” financial pressure and said it had hired restructuring experts to help determine its future.

For over two decades, Evergrande was China’s largest developer, minting money from a property boom on a scale the world had never seen. With each success, the firm expanded into new areas — bottled water, professional sports, electric vehicles.

©2021 The New York Times News Service
 

DrunkenSailor

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If bond yields are forced to go up becaus of this you will see an associated rate hike. This is when our pain will start. If china takes the companies assets and tells the bond holders to f themselves things will get interesting fast. The bond market is over levered in all shapes and forms. It all depends on China's next move. I'm not worried yet...
 

78Southwind

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If bond yields are forced to go up becaus of this you will see an associated rate hike. This is when our pain will start. If china takes the companies assets and tells the bond holders to f themselves things will get interesting fast. The bond market is over levered in all shapes and forms. It all depends on China's next move. I'm not worried yet...

But wouldn't the Fed go all in and put the Money Making Machine into OverDrive? I have been slowly buying TLT patiently waiting for part 2 of this shit show...
 

DILLIGAF

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3/4% for us. We beat the market, LOL.
We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Just took a closer look. Ended up only down 1/3 of 1% after some fixed income gains after the market closed. I can't complain about that
 

DaveH

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does anyone find it odd, that as congress debates another round of stimulus and raising the debt ceiling that today we have a stock market surprise? kinda like Wall Street is sending a message or something?
 

BHC Vic

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Got it back and a little more in the pre market so far. I think it’s a dead cat bounce though and I’ll see another buying opportunity tomorrow.
 

Flying_Lavey

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Will it? Or will they just double down and buy more here? They are going to put their money where it is safest and that isn’t China.
The people can only do with their money what Mother China allows them to do. Do you think that if their economy starts shifting the bed they are going to allow their citizens to take their money offshore and expand the issue further? Not a chance.

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Sportin' Wood

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You guys and me have a conservative and diversified portfolio. Mine is all about protecting principal for sure.
That loss is a little subjective IMHO. Some of it is the company I work for and in RSUs. I won't be sad if the price comes down a little on those as they mature. They are going to sit for a few years anyway. However, we are pretty happy with our Friday purchase. :)
 

DrunkenSailor

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But wouldn't the Fed go all in and put the Money Making Machine into OverDrive? I have been slowly buying TLT patiently waiting for part 2 of this shit show...

All indications say that the fed is going to start tapering in November. They need to pull money out of the market as inflation has proved not to be temporary... If the Chinese market collapses that plan may be put on hold.
 

BHC Vic

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Had a feeling it was a dead cat bounce. We’ll see what happens
 

DILLIGAF

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Well….my day just turned negative.

Probably due to that asshole Biden droning on before the UN.
 

nameisbond

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I'm concerned Canada faces a real estate and stock market crash, when the Chinese start pulling their money out of here. Under the liberals our finance minister has no experience in finance. Trudeau is equally clue-less.
 

Ziggy

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I'm concerned Canada faces a real estate and stock market crash, when the Chinese start pulling their money out of here. Under the liberals our finance minister has no experience in finance. Trudeau is equally clue-less.
Did you vote him out and get a new person?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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The people can only do with their money what Mother China allows them to do. Do you think that if their economy starts shifting the bed they are going to allow their citizens to take their money offshore and expand the issue further? Not a chance.

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What about the ones that already have? They going to be forced to sell and repatriate that money domestically?
 

nameisbond

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Did you vote him out and get a new person?

Nothing changed. We still have the Turd and his useless trained seals! Not good, when the possibility of a mass exodus of Chinese pulling their money out of Canada's stock and real estate market exists. Turds finance minister has no experience in finance. Inflation is already at an 18 year high. Groceries are going up. Most restaurants I frequent have raised prices. Its going to be painful.
 

havasujeeper

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For those who were buying yesterday, ya got real lucky. Right now the Dow is up 222 points and climbing. I sure would have lost that bet but good for you folks who hung in there!
 

Flying_Lavey

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For those who were buying yesterday, ya got real lucky. Right now the Dow is up 222 points and climbing. I sure would have lost that bet but good for you folks who hung in there!
I'm not familiar with market trends and global functions and such so this is an honest question for you or anybody else.....

Would the market being up today be caused by increased buying yesterday and the effect of the Chinese market effect not quite hitting here yet?

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DILLIGAF

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I'm not familiar with market trends and global functions and such so this is an honest question for you or anybody else.....

Would the market being up today be caused by increased buying yesterday and the effect of the Chinese market effect not quite hitting here yet?

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Yes. Lots more going into it though.

People continue to buy the dips
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I'm not familiar with market trends and global functions and such so this is an honest question for you or anybody else.....

Would the market being up today be caused by increased buying yesterday and the effect of the Chinese market effect not quite hitting here yet?

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk


As stated a lot going into it, but the general consensus seems to be that Evergrande is too big to fail.
 

just_floatin

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B605063D-584F-4ACD-872B-CC89AAFF2540.jpeg
 

DILLIGAF

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Hopefully today the bounce early will hold and build thru the day.
 

DrunkenSailor

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Below is a list of evergrande bond holders. 118mm in bond interest payments is due on thursday. China is definitely taking over the company and has said it will pay the interest payment on the Chinese currency bonds due on thursday of 35mm. The have not commented on if they will pay the bonds held in USD that have interest due of 83.5mm. Things will get interesting quickly if they pay the bond that is held in yuan but not the bond that is held in USD.

1632318555286.png
 
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CLdrinker

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BA with the Bounce

LOF I almost have all my profits back.
 

PaPaG

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3% down is not a correction or crash, now if it hits 3300 pts down in the dow or 1400 in Nasdaq then we have a correction (and in my opinion it was needed), we have had 11-13 major correction years in the last 20 years, but in the same sentence most have rebound within a month to a year from 8% to 24% so hold tight and quit watching every minute in the market unless you are short term or day trading, if you are day trading you are going to make BANK this week if you have the research done and have the
stomach for it.

And Wala, market so far made back 700 pts from its low yesterday and will continue to play the rollercoaster game while the billionaire hedge fund managers and billionaire portfolios along with the multi billionaire investors make their money from people selling off due to fear. Buy the Dip, Sell the Rally....sounds basic but it really works. :)
 

DrunkenSailor

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Chinese housing compared to median income


1632327477730.png


To say that there is a housing bubble in china would be to say that there is oxygen in the air. Evergrande is just the beginning. Should be interesting to see what happens in the coming months.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Chinese housing compared to median income


View attachment 1052238

To say that there is a housing bubble in china would be to say that there is oxygen in the air. Evergrande is just the beginning. Should be interesting to see what happens in the coming months.

I wonder what the folks on YDP (Yangtze Daves Place) over in China are saying about their housing bubble and pending financial Armageddon in 18 months?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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BA with the Bounce

LOF I almost have all my profits back.

Good. If today was another down day I was thinking of selling.

GUSH is flowing. Should have bought more in mid Aug when it was $53. It is $76 today. Kicking myself at that missed opportunity, but happy overall.
 

PaPaG

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And Wala, market so far made back 700 pts from its low yesterday and will continue to play the rollercoaster game while the billionaire hedge fund managers and billionaire portfolios along with the multi billionaire investors make their money from people selling off due to fear. Buy the Dip, Sell the Rally....sounds basic but it really works. :)

Another great bounce...555 pts up today so far, basically back to normal...Millions if Not Billions were made on this this last dip by the big boys. For us peons it was still a great week so far if you bought during the dip.......
 

78Southwind

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Chinese housing compared to median income


View attachment 1052238

To say that there is a housing bubble in china would be to say that there is oxygen in the air. Evergrande is just the beginning. Should be interesting to see what happens in the coming months.

@DrunkenSailor can you post the link to the article? I saw it earlier but haven't been able to find it.
 

PaPaG

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Today is ANOTHER buying day opportunity that is for sure, it may go down some more tomorrow but for some of the day traders/very short term investors this is a BUY DAY for sure.
 

CLdrinker

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I sold Visa. Bought VUG & a bit of PLTR.

Have a few bucks left over in case PLTR breaks below 25.50 tommorow.
 

c_land

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Default time for Evergrande is saturday. They have resumed trading today in Hong Kong after 17 days paused and it’s ugly.

A handful of other Chinese real estate developers have also recently defaulted.

It will be interesting to see what happens after they default and markets open next week.
 

zhandfull

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Good luck. Go get it
Not getting a good feeling about stocks next week.

Just added a chunk of change over the last month. With my luck half will be gone before the end of year. 😀
 

DILLIGAF

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Not getting a good feeling about stocks next week.

Just added a chunk of change over the last month. With my luck half will be gone before the end of year. 😀
Hang tight. Diversify it all of course.

I made money on Friday with things spread across the board.
 

was thatguy

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Hang tight. Diversify it all of course.

I made money on Friday with things spread across the board.

I see a couple solid opportunities sitting at 4%-10% of there ATH.
Good functional tokens.
 

OldSchoolBoats

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Some great entry opportunities right now in Crypto. Just added to my VET, ADA and MATIC positions.
 

DILLIGAF

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I see a couple solid opportunities sitting at 4%-10% of there ATH.
Good functional tokens.
BTC is about 48K now......If peeps are looking to dabble this would probably be a good time

Making good money across the board this AM.....Lets see if we can power thru the close today.

This market has provided tons of opportunities for you traders out there. Hope you took advantage of it
 

was thatguy

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BTC is about 48K now......If peeps are looking to dabble this would probably be a good time

Making good money across the board this AM.....Lets see if we can power thru the close today.

This market has provided tons of opportunities for you traders out there. Hope you took advantage of it

I definitely could be a lot braver than I am, but have made some moves!
 

DILLIGAF

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Some of my solid winners starting the day:

All up 2% or more:
KR
VFC
UNP
IFF
VTRS
TSN
SYY
RTX
MMM
MDT
LMT
KHC
JNJ
INTC
DOW
CVS
AAPL

Down this AM:
Down 2% or more:

PFE
 

DILLIGAF

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I definitely could be a lot braver than I am, but have made some moves!
I hear ya. I keep looking at the BTC types but don't have the balls to pull the trigger....lol

I am at a point in my life where I am trying to protect my principal mostly.

I have a little "trade" account that I have tied up in LAZR. A trade account should be just that but I seem to hold instead of trade. I don't think trading is for me.....lol
 

zhandfull

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Not getting a good feeling about stocks next week.

Just added a chunk of change over the last month. With my luck half will be gone before the end of year. 😀
TACO up 60% overnight! Not a bad start to the week.
 

farmo83

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Layering in some buys here minus DOCU which I chased down and got crushed doing so, averaged in around 140 so happy with that.

So far during the dip I've snagged

NVDA
AMD
SOFI
DOCU
V
DIS
AFRM
SQ
BTC
ETH

I'm about out of cash if this goes on but have a few bullet's left if needed. I like everything for the long term.
 
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