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Texas Power Bills

Ace in the Hole

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Can’t even imagine getting a $5k power bill for a 900 sf condo. Any members from Texas on this indexing rate plan?

Very few (in terms of % will be on these). Its the people who constantly rate hop looking for lowest wholesale.. Its hard for PPL who dont understand the power market her to get, but some of these people made their bed..and knew the risks.. I still don't agree with $9 per kWh power though..thats disgusting.

What i am actually worried about is what our natural gas bills will "readjust" to. Thats going to be telling.
 

rrrr

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Too fucking bad. Those people signed a contract that fully informed them their rates were directly tied to the spot market price. I'm tired of people that always want to be excused from their self inflicted dumbassery.
 

zhandfull

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Quote from the Financial Times article

“When a deep freeze shut down half the power generation capacity in Texas this week, the wholesale price of electricity exploded 10,000 per cent, with the financial consequences now being felt all the way from individual households to huge European energy companies. Astronomical bills face customers who opted for floating-rate contracts tied to wholesale prices in the state’s freewheeling electric market. The organisation that runs the wholesale market is making participants post more collateral to cover what could be a wave of defaults.”

What do they say? When the tide goes out will see who’s been swimming naked.

I wonder how many businesses were on this plan?
 

shunter2005

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Can’t even imagine getting a $5k power bill for a 900 sf condo. Any members from Texas on this indexing rate plan?

I am not too worried about my next electric bill, since we didn't use any electricity for most of this storm. Hard to use it when ERCOT cuts it off for you. I certainly can't say that about my next natural gas bill. My gas fireplace worked hard trying to warm up my living room, which it couldn't do. It was still damn cold in the house.

Never heard of indexing rate plan. May be something new, but I have a fixed plan and glad of it. Those that have variable plans are going to get hammered. I am just hoping my supplier doesn't shut down. Then I will get screwed as well.
 

zhandfull

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I am not too worried about my next electric bill, since we didn't use any electricity for most of this storm. Hard to use it when ERCOT cuts it off for you. I certainly can't say that about my next natural gas bill. My gas fireplace worked hard trying to warm up my living room, which it couldn't do. It was still damn cold in the house.

Never heard of indexing rate plan. May be something new, but I have a fixed plan and glad of it. Those that have variable plans are going to get hammered. I am just hoping my supplier doesn't shut down. Then I will get screwed as well.
Indexing rate plan may not be the right description. Sounds like the rates are set by market demand. Still it’s pretty crazy that the rates can be driven up 10,000 percent in some cases.

Be interesting to follow the money and see where the profits went. This could really blow up big time if there was any market manipulation involved.
 

shunter2005

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Indexing rate plan may not be the right description. Sounds like the rates are set by market demand. Still it’s pretty crazy that the rates can be driven up 10,000 percent in some cases.

Be interesting to follow the money and see where the profits went. This could really blow up big time if there was any market manipulation involved.
I don't know either, but it sounds like what we call a "variable rate" plan. It can be an ok deal if the rates are low and steady, but disastrous when there is a freak storm like we just had. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

El Paso is not part of ERCOT. They were interviewed about their electricity grid. Spokesman said that they had a total of about 3000 customers lose their electricity, for only about 5 minutes for the entire week. Years ago, they spent millions to upgrade and prepare their equipment for problems like this. Maybe ERCOT should go visit them and get some pointers.

I don't know if there is any truth to it, but we have also been hearing that ERCOT sold a bunch of electricity up north and didn't have what was needed for Texas. Again, that is one of the many stories circulating. Got to be some heads roll for this, I would think.
 

Xtrmwakeboarder

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These people were also warned by the provider, and told they should switch....
 

TX Foilhead

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[/QUOTE]I don't know if there is any truth to it, but we have also been hearing that ERCOT sold a bunch of electricity up north and didn't have what was needed for Texas. Again, that is one of the many stories circulating. Got to be some heads roll for this, I would think.
[/QUOTE]

I work for a utility in Central Texas and watched all this happening, there may have bee a couple of hundred megawatts going out or coming in during this. There are a few ties to grids surrounding Texas and a couple were reporting negative numbers every time i looked. I don’t know if thats coming in or going out. Today those number are positive so I’m going to guess electricity is going out Right now and there was some coming in during the cold snap. Either way it was a very small percentage of the total and every system Texas is connected to was going through the same weather so I wouldn’t expect them to be much help.

Nukes and Coal are handle these things the best because they have fuel on site, gas is fine in the summer for peak loads, but the plants don;t store much fuel so site so they may have issues. Wind Mills and Solar panels have no fuel and are de[pendant on the weather. When the wind and solar were unavailable all of the sudden the other plants didn’t have the capacity to pick up the extra load in time and they began to trip off. It happened to every type of plant. then it took a while for everyone repair their equipment and to go through their checklists to get restarted.
 

2Driver

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Too fucking bad. I'm tired of people that always want to be excused from their self inflicted dumbassery.
Dont worry, a go fund me account will take the place of mommy and daddy making the bad go away.

LOL growing up with participation trophies, helicopter parents and video games makes for a scary real world experience.
 

monkeyswrench

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So basically, if our 3 coal plants that are naturally more weather resistant hadnt been replaced with windmills and solar that weren't, Texas would have been in a much more stabile position..... is the way I'm reading that
Logic isn't a government stongsuite. Now, can we power the gennys with cow farts? Save us from global warming while making steaks?
 

Racey

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Great podcast with an energy expert about what happened in Texas, and the unspoken issues with 'Renewables' like wind/solar

 

Sherpa

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I’m usually a guy who thinks those people signed up for a specific billing method, so they should have to pay the piper....

except this method/billing amounts is total bullshit.
I’d fight it or ignore it..

Sherpa
 

Rvrluvr

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Nope. Regular power company (tri county I think), on a well, no gas nat gas. 👍
 

TX Foilhead

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So basically, if our 3 coal plants that are naturally more weather resistant hadnt been replaced with windmills and solar that weren't, Texas would have been in a much more stabile position..... is the way I'm reading that
Probably, the plants that have closed were old and I’m not sure how much longer they could have run before they ran out of coal. They were built back when you found a coal seam and built everything around it so the plant powers the mine. Not sure how much coal they had left to mine before they were done even without the regulations designed to put them out of business.
 

Wolskis

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Great podcast with an energy expert about what happened in Texas, and the unspoken issues with 'Renewables' like wind/solar

I wouldn't put to much stock into Tim's energy expert. Tim was f'n up his description on how power was produced and the expert seemed as clueless. We'll see a report in about 6 months. Just wondering how the green energy part might get white washed to fit the agenda.
 

zhandfull

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I wouldn't put to much stock into Tim's energy expert. Tim was f'n up his description on how power was produced and the expert seemed as clueless. We'll see a report in about 6 months. Just wondering how the green energy part might get white washed to fit the agenda.
Didn’t the energy expert say he has five years experience? 😳
 

highvoltagehands

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So basically, if our 3 coal plants that are naturally more weather resistant hadnt been replaced with windmills and solar that weren't, Texas would have been in a much more stabile position..... is the way I'm reading that
Negative. See post #19 for some good partial reasoning, but Here’s a little more. Texas Windmills & Solar are mainly relied upon during the summer periods for power And are only expected to provide approx 10-15% of winter power. It’s the fossil fuel plants that are expected to provide enough winter power for all and didn’t, so you can’t blame the small minority for majority of problems.
The bottom line is some Texas utilities failed to properly prepare for a rare unnatural event, which most utilities nationwide are unprepared for also, but because All utilities are trying to minimize costs to maximize profits at cheapest rate possible for consumer, Sometimes they‘re gonna get caught with their pants down.
 

rrrr

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I’m usually a guy who thinks those people signed up for a specific billing method, so they should have to pay the piper....

except this method/billing amounts is total bullshit.
I’d fight it or ignore it..

Sherpa
Why is it bullshit? It has been known for years the spot market can get extremely volatile when unusual external events occur. Do you recall what happened to the price of oil in March and April 2020? Because of panic over the effects of the pandemic, prices went negative for a brief period. Producers were paying tanker firms and storage operaters to take their oil, because no one wanted it.

The dramatic collapse in worldwide demand for oil led to an extraordinary development on Monday: U.S. oil prices fell below zero for the first time ever, and kept falling.

The key U.S. oil benchmark, West Texas Intermediate, settled at negative $37.63.

Driven by a trading contract deadline, traders desperately looked for buyers for the barrels of oil they normally hold in their books. But buyers were hard to find — even when the oil was being given away for free.

So some traders, instead of paying to buy oil, were ready to pay as much as $37.63 to get someone to accept delivery of one barrel of oil.

The coronavirus pandemic has led the global economy to slam the brakes, leading to an extremely sharp drop in demand for oil. It has created a massive oil glut and raised concerns about the lack of physical storage space for it.



When blackouts of the California electrical grid occurred in August 2020 due to a heat wave, spot prices exceeded $1,000 per megawatt hour.

The epic heat wave that’s produced rolling blackouts in California comes with a high price tag.

Wholesale power prices have occasionally shot up past $1,000 per megawatt hour — mirroring prices from the devastating 2001 energy crisis — as the California Independent System Operator has frantically worked to keep the juice flowing to the grid.

These prices eventually could find their way into rates paid by customers of the ISO’s member utilities, such as PG&E Corp., although it’s far too early to tell.

The blackouts and high prices have raised suspicions of market manipulation of the sort that plagued the state in 2001. Loretta Lynch, who was president of the Public Utilities Commission during the 2001 energy crisis, has said California is being victimized by “the sons of Enron,” a reference to the notorious energy company that led the way in gaming the system nearly two decades ago.

But top ISO officials have said they’ve seen no evidence of anything improper. They’re convinced the heat wave is largely driving conditions on the grid.

“We have a perfect storm going on here,” ISO chief executive Steve Berberich told reporters. “It’s not unusual to have high prices when you have these levels of (usage).”



The people that signed contracts to pay the spot price for electricity knew exactly what they were agreeing to. When they were receiving power for 6¢/kWh, they crowed to their neighbors about how smart they were. Now that the bus has run off the road and crashed, they're crying foul and expect the governor and the legislature to rescue their dumb asses.

I have zero sympathy for them.
 

rrrr

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Negative. See post #19 for some good partial reasoning, but Here’s a little more. Texas Windmills & Solar are mainly relied upon during the summer periods for power And are only expected to provide approx 10-15% of winter power. It’s the fossil fuel plants that are expected to provide enough winter power for all and didn’t, so you can’t blame the small minority for majority of problems.

The bottom line is some Texas utilities failed to properly prepare for a rare unnatural event, which most utilities nationwide are unprepared for also, but because All utilities are trying to minimize costs to maximize profits at cheapest rate possible for consumer, Sometimes they‘re gonna get caught with their pants down.
That's not accurate. Wind power makes up 42% of available power in Texas, and a 30% share of the total generation by all means for wind is considered base load year round. When the weather hit, by Monday night into Tuesday morning, 92% of that 30% share of wind power was unavailable.

The other sources of power that normally provide the other 70% of the base load then had to provide 97.6% of the base load because of the failure of wind generation, and those of sources quickly began to fail as well.

If the wind power had stayed online providing its 30% of base load, other sources would not have had to take up the additional 27.6%.

The overall failure was depending on wind and solar for a large percentage of base load. Government subsidies for "renewables" combined with ridiculous handicaps placed on the coal and natural gas plants by Obama's EPA are responsible for this.

Did you know that compressors on natural gas pipelines used to be powered by natural gas, but because of the EPA they were required to switch to electric power? Guess what happened on Monday/Tuesday.
 

Wolskis

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Did you know that compressors on natural gas pipelines used to be powered by natural gas, but because of the EPA they were required to switch to electric power? Guess what happened on Monday/Tuesday.
Interesting little bit of info.
 

MSum661

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That's not accurate. Wind power makes up 42% of available power in Texas, and a 30% share of the total generation by all means for wind is considered base load year round. When the weather hit, by Monday night into Tuesday morning, 92% of that 30% share of wind power was unavailable.

The other sources of power that normally provide the other 70% of the base load then had to provide 97.6% of the base load because of the failure of wind generation, and those of sources quickly began to fail as well.

If the wind power had stayed online providing its 30% of base load, other sources would not have had to take up the additional 27.6%.

The overall failure was depending on wind and solar for a large percentage of base load. Government subsidies for "renewables" combined with ridiculous handicaps placed on the coal and natural gas plants by Obama's EPA are responsible for this.

Did you know that compressors on natural gas pipelines used to be powered by natural gas, but because of the EPA they were required to switch to electric power? Guess what happened on Monday/Tuesday.
"The overall failure was depending on wind and solar for a large percentage of base load. Government subsidies for "renewables" combined with ridiculous handicaps placed on the coal and natural gas plants by Obama's EPA are responsible for this."

Exactly.
 

Taboma

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I wouldn't put to much stock into Tim's energy expert. Tim was f'n up his description on how power was produced and the expert seemed as clueless. We'll see a report in about 6 months. Just wondering how the green energy part might get white washed to fit the agenda.
He's more of a political expert according to his short bio on the website for the Non-Profit he's the founder and executive director of and running his brother's ( Uncle Bob Turner) political campaigns. Certainly not saying he doesn't have a clue, or that I disagree with his assessments and ideals that his non-profit advocates, but he's not without an agenda either. I think it's wise when listening to any opinion and that's what he's offering, is to know what views that person represents.

 
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Wolskis

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He's more of a political expert according to his short bio on the website for the Non-Profit he's the founder and executive director of and running his brother's ( Uncle Bob Turner) political campaigns. Certainly not saying he doesn't have a clue, or that I disagree with his assessments and ideals that his non-profit advocates, but he's not without an agenda either. I think it's wise when listening to any opinion and that's what he's offering, is to know what views that person represents.

You make a good point. I was hoping he had more insight but that went away pretty fast when he mentioned his 5 years of experience.
 

J.P.

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I dont know seems odd that customers already got their power bills during or a day after the freeze, sounds like bull shit to me and more political.
 

Racey

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That's not accurate. Wind power makes up 42% of available power in Texas, and a 30% share of the total generation by all means for wind is considered base load year round. When the weather hit, by Monday night into Tuesday morning, 92% of that 30% share of wind power was unavailable.

The other sources of power that normally provide the other 70% of the base load then had to provide 97.6% of the base load because of the failure of wind generation, and those of sources quickly began to fail as well.

If the wind power had stayed online providing its 30% of base load, other sources would not have had to take up the additional 27.6%.

The overall failure was depending on wind and solar for a large percentage of base load. Government subsidies for "renewables" combined with ridiculous handicaps placed on the coal and natural gas plants by Obama's EPA are responsible for this.

Did you know that compressors on natural gas pipelines used to be powered by natural gas, but because of the EPA they were required to switch to electric power? Guess what happened on Monday/Tuesday.
Pretty much exactly what the guy on Tim Pool said. Texas over relied on unreliable renewables and by subsidizing them drove expansion of reliable fossil fuel generation out of the market so they weren't there when a situation like this arises.

Also that a similar storm happen in 2011, but since the percentage of renewable energy in the grid back then was so much lower than that 30%, the blackouts were much less devastating

 

Racey

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You make a good point. I was hoping he had more insight but that went away pretty fast when he mentioned his 5 years of experience.
Doesn't make what he said wrong, pretty much same as what rrrr posted 👍
 

highvoltagehands

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That's not accurate. Wind power makes up 42% of available power in Texas, and a 30% share of the total generation by all means for wind is considered base load year round. When the weather hit, by Monday night into Tuesday morning, 92% of that 30% share of wind power was unavailable.

The other sources of power that normally provide the other 70% of the base load then had to provide 97.6% of the base load because of the failure of wind generation, and those of sources quickly began to fail as well.

If the wind power had stayed online providing its 30% of base load, other sources would not have had to take up the additional 27.6%.

The overall failure was depending on wind and solar for a large percentage of base load. Government subsidies for "renewables" combined with ridiculous handicaps placed on the coal and natural gas plants by Obama's EPA are responsible for this.

Did you know that compressors on natural gas pipelines used to be powered by natural gas, but because of the EPA they were required to switch to electric power? Guess what happened on Monday/Tuesday.
Where rrrr you getting your numbers? You rrrn’t even close. Quit blaming feds And everyone else, The main reason Texas has their own grid is to limit the Feds regulating them. Bottom line is ERCOT screwed up. It happens.
EB322B90-0568-42C1-B40B-9724406891A5.png
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Wolskis

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Pulled this from ERCOT yesterday. Generation makeup from 2007 to 2021.
ERCOT generation mix.jpg
 

shunter2005

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I am not too worried about my next electric bill, since we didn't use any electricity for most of this storm. Hard to use it when ERCOT cuts it off for you. I certainly can't say that about my next natural gas bill. My gas fireplace worked hard trying to warm up my living room, which it couldn't do. It was still damn cold in the house.
Just a little note to say, I received my weekly usage update from my electric provider. With power off for 36 straight hours and then on/off for roughly 20 hrs (in total) during the following 2 days, we used 182Kw last week during the freeze week. Week prior to the storm we used 180Kw. Less than $20 for the entire week. As stated before, the real shocker is yet to come. The natural gas bill.
 

rrrr

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Thanks to fracking, natural gas prices are almost at an all time low when inflation is considered.

Enjoy it while you can. 🤬
 

JDKRXW

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Thanks to fracking, natural gas prices are almost at an all time low when inflation is considered.

Enjoy it while you can. 🤬
We have more than we'll EVER use .... and will sell it to our friendly neighbors at a more than fair price ---- if you can build a pipeline to Morgan MT. or Sherwood ND.

1614102282325.png
 

spectra3279

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farmo83

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One other thing that isn't getting talked about at all and won't

There is little incentive to build any gas fired plants in recent years. Wind and Solar subsidies have made gas uncompetitive. Yes gas plants were offline, however if wind and solar had to compete without subsidies it wouldn't have even been an issue.

When it comes to energy it's similar to boating.

Pick any 2

Clean
Cheap
Reliable
 

shunter2005

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They are running for the hills!!!! News tonight said that 5 ERCOT board members resigned today and a 6th one who was running for that board withdrew his name. $100 mil lawsuit was filed on behalf of an 11 year old who died. They are scared shitless!!!
 
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