WELCOME TO RIVER DAVES PLACE

The come back of HTM boats.

rivergames

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Twocents is way more knowledgeable on that subject than I am so I'll wait for him to chime in.. but not that long ago there was only a few engine builders that were truly carb compliant.. mercury, Teague, Ilmor. I would have to imagine marine power and some of the other big name Mfg's are certified by now though. The new fuel systems are all crazy EPA shit that all of the mfg's are really unhappy with. :(.

The gas tanks in new boats these day must be signed off by a division of the EPA. I forgot the exact name.

Here's an example that I am currently going through:
You take your boat to IMCO. Then, IMCO has to draw an exact layout/plan of what the new tank will be. They send in the drawing to the EPA agency to get approved. You need charcoal filters, multiple breathers and a few other bullshit items. Once the drawing is sent back to IMCO, then they can built the new gas tank.

From what I heard, if a boat MFG doesn't install approved tanks, it can be a $135K fine against them. If it is just a person that gets caught without an approved tank in a newer boat, then they can get a $35K fine throw at them.

This hasn't been around very long, so not many 100% know all the details, but that's the word I heard.
 

pwerwagn

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I know the one SR24 with the twin outboards ran pretty good. I had talked to a few of the previous owners, and one told me with only 225's on it, it would run 102-103 fully loaded at Elsinore. I think it was Cale Carder that told me it had run ~106. Not bad at all for a boat that big with 225's.

I remember being at the IHBA races in the 90's/early 2K and watching the HTM's. That sparked my desire to own one, but I never have.
 

twocents

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Dave is correct. The last time I checked with CARB, there were only a handful of marine engine manufacturers who have gone through the entire emissions certification process and received final approval to sell new inboard engines (those on the CARB list include Mercury, Ilmor, Volvo, Teague, Indmar, PCM/Crusader, Marine Power). As far as I know, the smaller independent motor builders are still skating under the government radar so far. As for marine fuel tanks, yes, new regulations are putting a major burden on a lot of boat builders, and the potential fines for non-compliance are heavy. IMCO is a very good source for getting compliant fuel systems, they are really well educated on the subject.
 

MSum661

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Dave is correct. The last time I checked with CARB, there were only a handful of marine engine manufacturers who have gone through the entire emissions certification process and received final approval to sell new inboard engines (those on the CARB list include Mercury, Ilmor, Volvo, Teague, Indmar, PCM/Crusader, Marine Power). As far as I know, the smaller independent motor builders are still skating under the government radar so far. As for marine fuel tanks, yes, new regulations are putting a major burden on a lot of boat builders, and the potential fines for non-compliance are heavy. IMCO is a very good source for getting compliant fuel systems, they are really well educated on the subject.

What's the big engine component difference's between the California Air Resources Board requirements and those across State lines?
 

HTMike

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Driver's boat. *Noted.

How many times have you ever heard someone say a 25' Daytona is a "driver's boat"?

Not to knock Eliminators but the HTM bottom is WAY faster. The HTM's are a racier boat so its going to feel more on edge. My boat wide open with the drive tucked was on a rail. No cruising porpoise and handled really well. I make all these comments based on owning a HTM with a big ass blower motor.
 

rivergames

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What's the big engine component difference's between the California Air Resources Board requirements and those across State lines?

In regards to the fuel tanks, I heard that was a nation wide item that needs to be done. Not just state deal.
 

Jmp

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Not to knock Eliminators but the HTM bottom is WAY faster. The HTM's are a racier boat so its going to feel more on edge. My boat wide open with the drive tucked was on a rail. No cruising porpoise and handled really well. I make all these comments based on owning a HTM with a big ass blower motor.

Bob teague ran 144 in a 25 daytona with a big blower motor in July of 2002 for powerboat mag testing in Parker. Please explain way faster....
 

HTMike

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Bob teague ran 144 in a 25 daytona with a big blower motor in July of 2002 for powerboat mag testing in Parker. Please explain way faster....

Same 1200 HP motor in both boats SS-24 vs 25 Daytona, the Daytona will be 10 mph slower and not accelerate as fast. That is fact.

I am not knocking Eliminators at all with this comment. They are two different boats.
 

BHC Vic

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Twocents is way more knowledgeable on that subject than I am so I'll wait for him to chime in.. but not that long ago there was only a few engine builders that were truly carb compliant.. mercury, Teague, Ilmor. I would have to imagine marine power and some of the other big name Mfg's are certified by now though. The new fuel systems are all crazy EPA shit that all of the mfg's are really unhappy with. :(.

Customers too. I'm sure you remember my issues. New EPA shit was a big factor
 

460

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Someone explain a " drivers boat"

To me it screams they ride like shit and are difficult to drive. That term keeps getting tossed around and I'm trying to understand it. Never heard DCB, Nordic, eliminator etc use those terms when describing their boats.
 

RiverDave

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Can't people just be happy for the girls getting their molds back. The vast majority of this is just overall excitement and hooray for the girls. Of course there is going to be cheerleaders for the brand and people that aren't fans as well.. but they have a long row to hoe before boats are even being built. There's no need to rain on their parade.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Someone explain a " drivers boat"

To me it screams they ride like shit and are difficult to drive. That term keeps getting tossed around and I'm trying to understand it. Never heard DCB, Nordic, eliminator etc use those terms when describing their boats.


This is not a heavy 26-30+ foot boat with big power. It is a smaller boat that is inherently less stable than larger heavier boats. There is less room for driver error as the boat is less forgiving.


Think about driving a Cobra kit car. Then think about driving a new Porsche. The Cobra kit car is a drivers car. You have to respect it and not do anything dumb, or bad things will happen, you will spin it into a telephone pole. A new Porsche you get in and floor it and don't worry about too much. Both cars do similar speeds. One is quicker and more raw, and frankly takes more talent to drive fast. The other is more refined and easier to drive at speed.
 

HTMike

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Someone explain a " drivers boat"

To me it screams they ride like shit and are difficult to drive. That term keeps getting tossed around and I'm trying to understand it. Never heard DCB, Nordic, eliminator etc use those terms when describing their boats.

Its a 24' boat with 22' of running surface with a high compression tunnel with and very fast bottom. These boats respond very well to power. These boats do not ride like shit nor are they difficult to drive. The ultra fast bottom of the HTM would/could get away from you quicker than other cats of the same size at bigger (110+ ) speeds making it more of a drivers boat. Steve wanted these boats to be fast and that is what they are.
 

twocents

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Just to clarify on marine engine emissions and fuel tank/system regulations, both apply nationwide. CARB, which is a separate California agency apart from the federal EPA, makes its own rules for California. When all of this regulation debate was going on a decade or more ago, California was actually the leader and EPA was the follower. There are still some minor differences in order to be both California and EPA compliant. The big question is how strict is the new boat registration process going to get. Technically, a new boat buyer is required to produce documents proving that the engine and fuel system in the boat is compliant before that boat can be registered. The degree of enforcement, however, seems to vary widely at the moment, but you have to assume that holes in the boat registration process will be plugged as time goes on....much like trying to get your annual vehicle tags without completing a mandatory smog test.
 

cicchetti_24

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Can't people just be happy for the girls getting their molds back. The vast majority of this is just overall excitement and hooray for the girls. Of course there is going to be cheerleaders for the brand and people that aren't fans as well.. but they have a long row to hoe before boats are even being built. There's no need to rain on their parade.[/]

Well we will cheer hard and that's just the way it is.
 

rivrrts429

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Someone explain a " drivers boat"

To me it screams they ride like shit and are difficult to drive. That term keeps getting tossed around and I'm trying to understand it. Never heard DCB, Nordic, eliminator etc use those terms when describing their boats.


I'd wager more DCB's have rolled over than HTM's lol

Both Eliminator & DCB had their share of porpoise issues and people scared shitless to drive through it.

Nordic isn't breaking any speed records unless they're using someone else's bottom although Randy Davis knows how to make a boat get down the quarter.

Most of this stuff you hear is because a friend said they heard from a friend who heard from a friend. Any boat is going to be scary as fuck if you have a captain who thinks they're better than they really are, even more so with a thousand horse. Hell, I'm scared as fuck at 50 with my wife driving mine.

I think HTM did have a bad year or two when boats were being laid-up elsewhere and quality control went down. Once they were able to bring it all under roof that all improved.

Any boat designed to go fast in a straight line is going to have a legend of some sort that follows it. Builders like RPM & HTM will forever have that legend because of people chasing the top speed number.
 

Gelcoater

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I have never ridden in a 30ft htm,have had a 1150hp ss24 than runs 130 never had a stability issue,this 30 footer seemed to be pretty impressive in its time pulling on 40 ft skaters and I believe it won shootout

Same 1200 HP motor in both boats SS-24 vs 25 Daytona, the Daytona will be 10 mph slower and not accelerate as fast. That is fact.

I am not knocking Eliminators at all with this comment. They are two different boats.

Richcat861 is saying his 1150hp unit runs 130...

Is neither here nor there. Orange vs tangerine ;)



I guess these girls are smart. Not starting an account and stepping into this thread.:thumbsdown


Wishing the HTM girls success :thumbsup
 

wsuwrhr

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Explained perfectly.....

Although,

Something tells me most people on this site know the answer, they just want to ask the question for their own reasons.

I find it hard to believe anyone on this site asking the questions doesn't know the difference. I just don't buy it.

Brian



This is not a heavy 26-30+ foot boat with big power. It is a smaller boat that is inherently less stable than larger heavier boats. There is less room for driver error as the boat is less forgiving.


Think about driving a Cobra kit car. Then think about driving a new Porsche. The Cobra kit car is a drivers car. You have to respect it and not do anything dumb, or bad things will happen, you will spin it into a telephone pole. A new Porsche you get in and floor it and don't worry about too much. Both cars do similar speeds. One is quicker and more raw, and frankly takes more talent to drive fast. The other is more refined and easier to drive at speed.

Its a 24' boat with 22' of running surface with a high compression tunnel with and very fast bottom. These boats respond very well to power. These boats do not ride like shit nor are they difficult to drive. The ultra fast bottom of the HTM would/could get away from you quicker than other cats of the same size at bigger (110+ ) speeds making it more of a drivers boat. Steve wanted these boats to be fast and that is what they are.

I'd wager more DCB's have rolled over than HTM's lol

Both Eliminator & DCB had their share of porpoise issues and people scared shitless to drive through it.

Nordic isn't breaking any speed records unless they're using someone else's bottom although Randy Davis knows how to make a boat get down the quarter.

Most of this stuff you hear is because a friend said they heard from a friend who heard from a friend. Any boat is going to be scary as fuck if you have a captain who thinks they're better than they really are, even more so with a thousand horse. Hell, I'm scared as fuck at 50 with my wife driving mine.

I think HTM did have a bad year or two when boats were being laid-up elsewhere and quality control went down. Once they were able to bring it all under roof that all improved.

Any boat designed to go fast in a straight line is going to have a legend of some sort that follows it. Builders like RPM & HTM will forever have that legend because of people chasing the top speed number.
 

wsuwrhr

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...and we lose, as a group, because of the naysayers.....

Richcat861 is saying his 1150hp unit runs 130...

Is neither here nor there. Orange vs tangerine ;)



I guess these girls are smart. Not starting an account and stepping into this thread.:thumbsdown


Wishing the HTM girls success :thumbsup
 

96motorhead

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All I know is they usually sound great. The first one I ever saw came through the canal with a rough idle and no mufflers making 1300hp with a blower through the hatch.
 

rivrrts429

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I guess these girls are smart. Not starting an account and stepping into this thread.:thumbsdown


Wishing the HTM girls success :thumbsup


If I was an owner, or advising an owner, I'd keep far away from posting on forums. As evidence by this very thread you're always going to have people looking for an angle, good or bad.

Sponsorship/advertising is good at the forum level but having manufacturers posting can be risky and words can be twisted. You're always going to have that one customer who can't be pleased or maybe someone won't purchase because of perceived forum persona that may or may not be accurate.

It's best when manufacturers stay at 50,000 feet and do what they know best. Leave the forums to the enthusiast.
 

RiverDave

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Well we will cheer hard and that's just the way it is.

As you should! Clearly you have a passion for the brand, and the company! :)

I'd wager more DCB's have rolled over than HTM's lol

I think most of this comes back from the original Hotboat days.. There was a bout a 2 year period after Steve Passed where it seemed like every other month one went over. :( There was at least two members of the site that were very vocal about their experiences in the boats etc.. Some of that still retains to this day.

Both Eliminator & DCB had their share of porpoise issues and people scared shitless to drive through it.

Not really.. but it isn't a secret that some of them hop pretty good in certain speed ranges on smooth water.

Nordic isn't breaking any speed records unless they're using someone else's bottom although Randy Davis knows how to make a boat get down the quarter.

Well actually Buck's 28 SS (Nordic Bottom tooled by Thane from scratch) runs 155 mph last I heard.. That's faster than any single engine HTM / Eliminator / pretty much anything.. More to the point he has done it in shootouts (151/152 I think? LOTO) , and actually broke all the single engine / bravo style records.

RD
 

Gelcoater

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If I was an owner, or advising an owner, I'd keep far away from posting on forums. As evidence by this very thread you're always going to have people looking for an angle, good or bad.

Sponsorship/advertising is good at the forum level but having manufacturers posting can be risky and words can be twisted. You're always going to have that one customer who can't be pleased or maybe someone won't purchase because of perceived forum persona that may or may not be accurate.

It's best when manufacturers stay at 50,000 feet and do what they know best. Leave the forums to the enthusiast.

While I agree, there is a solution. Dave already created it.
The From the Mold section.

Comments and bullshit are supposed to be moderated strongly.

It seems this thread could have been drama minimal had someone started the thread (or a Mod move the thread) to the appropriate section.
 

RiverDave

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If I was an owner, or advising an owner, I'd keep far away from posting on forums. As evidence by this very thread you're always going to have people looking for an angle, good or bad.

Sponsorship/advertising is good at the forum level but having manufacturers posting can be risky and words can be twisted. You're always going to have that one customer who can't be pleased or maybe someone won't purchase because of perceived forum persona that may or may not be accurate.

It's best when manufacturers stay at 50,000 feet and do what they know best. Leave the forums to the enthusiast.

It depends on how Savvy the representative of the company that is going to post (or in this case not post) is... The forums were absolutely HUGE for John West and Ultra back in the day. On the inverse, I think the forums actually hurt some companies, because of the posting styles or personalities that represented certain brands.

Haters aren't hard to handle to be honest.. Just rise above and be diplomatic and better informed. The hardest part (for some) is to rise above.

RD
 

Gelcoater

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Well actually Buck's 28 SS (Nordic Bottom tooled by Thane from scratch) runs 155 mph last I heard.. That's faster than any single engine HTM / Eliminator / pretty much anything..

RD

Actually. Not really. :cool

I know of a couple of Eliminators that ran that kind of number.
But then again, another apples and oranges deal.

I'm mostly just busting your balls:D
 

Bigbore500r

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While I agree, there is a solution. Dave already created it.
The From the Mold section.

Comments and bullshit are supposed to be moderated strongly.

It seems this thread could have been drama minimal had someone started the thread (or a Mod move the thread) to the appropriate section.

It was just a "hey check it out, HTM is getting back in business" thread from somebody who owns an HTM and is excited. Shouldn't have to be contained in the "from the Mold" section. Then again....this is an open forum, so differing opinions will happen
 

RiverDave

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Actually. Not really. :cool

I know of a couple of Eliminators that ran that kind of number.
But then again, another apples and oranges deal.

I'm mostly just busting your balls:D

Fastest single engine Daytona I ever heard about was that dude from Oregon that ran 144-145? Not sure if anybody has run one past that (Bravo style / shifting drive).
 

Bigbore500r

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It depends on how Savvy the representative of the company that is going to post (or in this case not post) is... The forums were absolutely HUGE for John West and Ultra back in the day. On the inverse, I think the forums actually hurt some companies, because of the posting styles or personalities that represented certain brands.

Haters aren't hard to handle to be honest.. Just rise above and be diplomatic and better informed. The hardest part (for some) is to rise above.

RD

RAPTOR BOATS :eek
 

Gelcoater

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Fastest single engine Daytona I ever heard about was that dude from Oregon that ran 144-145? Not sure if anybody has run one past that (Bravo style / shifting drive).

No Bravo...Jet. ;)
 

RiverDave

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It was just a "hey check it out, HTM is getting back in business" thread from somebody who owns an HTM and is excited. Shouldn't have to be contained in the "from the Mold" section. Then again....this is an open forum, so differing opinions will happen

Exactly.. Honestly people "should" have enough class, to just follow the old rules of "If you have nothing nice to say then shut the F up." LOL.. There's plenty of threads, and or will be in the future for "discussions among enthusiasts" about the pro's and cons of hulls, and comparisons etc.. I wish some people could have just said congratulations and moved on. That said we don't run RDP like a Hitler youth camp, and we do believe in light moderation, so it's one of those balancing acts. Nobody has said anything too terrible, and others are just asking some loaded questions. If someone was to say something completely out of line, I'd whack it.


RAPTOR BOATS :eek

That's one, there's a few others..
 

Gelcoater

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My buddy Roy owns "Breathless" the top fuel 19' Daytona hull.. I'm sure that's put up some ridiculous #'s in it's hey day, but that isn't what we are talking about here.

RD

IHBA was mentioned in this thread, so...
 

the510

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they are getting back into the market at the right time.... that's for sure.
 

rpmsrup

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I get it.. but speed records for Bravo style single engine cats generally aren't running 1/4 mile drags. To my knowledge I think HTM was the only boats of that size that drag raced them.

RD

I was there when they ran them at firebird now wild horse pass, was pretty cool to see big boats do it, of course they came around the island then through the tree
 

wsuwrhr

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I always dug seeing clips of them dragracing those boats.

Made me smile.

Steve and HTM were badasses, no doubt.
 

Jmp

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Fastest single engine Daytona I ever heard about was that dude from Oregon that ran 144-145? Not sure if anybody has run one past that (Bravo style / shifting drive).

Shueman posted a video on fb the other day of a 26 Daytona doing 155 according to the title, looked like it was on a river somewhere.
 

RiverDave

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Blown Fuel, not Top Fuel. IHBA Blown Fuel could only run at 50% Nitro per rule book. Huge dif.

You would know more about it then me. I think this was an old NJBA boat from way back when.. Not sure if that matters.

Shueman posted a video on fb the other day of a 26 Daytona doing 155 according to the title, looked like it was on a river somewhere.

I haven't seen that. That would be a contender for sure.

RD
 

instagator

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Same 1200 HP motor in both boats SS-24 vs 25 Daytona, the Daytona will be 10 mph slower and not accelerate as fast. That is fact.

I am not knocking Eliminators at all with this comment. They are two different boats.

I agree !
 

cicchetti_24

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I'd wager more DCB's have rolled over than HTM's lol

Both Eliminator & DCB had their share of porpoise issues and people scared shitless to drive through it.

Nordic isn't breaking any speed records unless they're using someone else's bottom although Randy Davis knows how to make a boat get down the quarter.

Most of this stuff you hear is because a friend said they heard from a friend who heard from a friend. Any boat is going to be scary as fuck if you have a captain who thinks they're better than they really are, even more so with a thousand horse. Hell, I'm scared as fuck at 50 with my wife driving mine.

I think HTM did have a bad year or two when boats were being laid-up elsewhere and quality control went down. Once they were able to bring it all under roof that all improved.

Any boat designed to go fast in a straight line is going to have a legend of some sort that follows it. Builders like RPM & HTM will forever have that legend because of people chasing the top speed number.

Excellent post
 

instagator

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Someone explain a " drivers boat"

To me it screams they ride like shit and are difficult to drive. That term keeps getting tossed around and I'm trying to understand it. Never heard DCB, Nordic, eliminator etc use those terms when describing their boats.

You have to talk to HTM drivers that have driven the boat at high speeds, I have never heard of a HTM owner complain about the boat being scary, Any HTM drivers
want to chime in. Most complaints are always from non HTM owners.
 

cicchetti_24

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If I was an owner, or advising an owner, I'd keep far away from posting on forums. As evidence by this very thread you're always going to have people looking for an angle, good or bad.

Sponsorship/advertising is good at the forum level but having manufacturers posting can be risky and words can be twisted. You're always going to have that one customer who can't be pleased or maybe someone won't purchase because of perceived forum persona that may or may not be accurate.

It's best when manufacturers stay at 50,000 feet and do what they know best. Leave the forums to the enthusiast.

Unfortunately we experienced this the other night with some of the owner's in a group. It wasn't good and they will give it a bad name. We should be encouraging people to get involved and not be afraid to post because some asshole owner has an ego problem. Or they don't like how you use your boat. It's actually pretty sad it's always who has the bigger d..k with some of them. They came hard at me and I walked. I will no longer post updates for that reason as I left said group that I had a big hand in. But you hit the nail on the head.
 

cicchetti_24

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It depends on how Savvy the representative of the company that is going to post (or in this case not post) is... The forums were absolutely HUGE for John West and Ultra back in the day. On the inverse, I think the forums actually hurt some companies, because of the posting styles or personalities that represented certain brands.

Haters aren't hard to handle to be honest.. Just rise above and be diplomatic and better informed. The hardest part (for some) is to rise above.

RD

Yep I let someone in this thread get the best of me, but as Dave and I discussed I let that person get the best of me for personal reasons. But hey we all live and learn. I will still help in some capacity on SM mainly just getting pics posted.
 

cicchetti_24

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What does your boat run for speed riverking, and how much seat time do you have in that boat ?

I have in my boat about 20 total running hours of seat time. I've only run my boat up to 103 coming from a Vbottom to a cat. I'm not out to break records but we estimate the boat will run low 120's the way it's setup
 
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