The last gasoline muscle car 😔

[rivermobster]

Do you cry when you see a video of muscle cars getting absolutely spanked by modern computer cars? My little bare bones 100% stock G35 can lay the hurt down on a lot of OG muscle and it can't even hold a candle to the current crop of muscle cars.

Nope.

I worked in the dealership network for over 30 years, and then built street rods and hot rods for the remaining 10 years of my wrench turning career.

So I'm fairly familiar with the difference pre smog and computer controlled cars.

And even though I'm sure you are correct...

I promise you I can spank your G35 right off the road with a few of the vehicles I have built. And, they are as reliable as anything out there.

The problem is...

There are very few old guys like me that can make a 60's car run well. But just because most early cars Have been half assed together, doesn't mean that they Can't be built right with the right amount of dollars and sense.

A true muscle car didn't come from the factory with fuel injection on it!!!

My 330ci is fast and handles great, but I would NEVER in a million years refer to it as any kind of "muscle car" .

But as far as crying goes...

I'm pretty sure the 5 Series Beemer I spanked one day, with a Buick Skylark I built, will Never try and call out an early muscle car Ever again!

I'd put my old 406 Mustang against your G35 all day long.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Think it would be worth getting one of these just to sit on it? Sell it down the road?

A charger or challenger? No, unless it was a Hellcat red eye, manual trans special edition they are making a limited number of.

The problem now is they make too many of these cars and too many people snatch them up and don’t drive them.

 

[DLC]

The problem is “ F’n Biden “.
If gas was $3 bucks a gallon like it was in Ca in 2019 we wouldn’t be having this thread! And $3 bucks a gallon is high !

yes, Joe did That!

 

[DrunkenSailor]

A convertible hellcat Challenger would be on my list but they want 25k for the convertible and it's not factory. Had they made the challenger a convertible from the start it would have outsold ford and Chevy every year.

 

[J&k beer can]

the new stuff is going to be more advanced..

you can blow the doors off a old muscle car but he is still cooler at the next light then your new modern car..
thats just how it is.. lmfao

 

[spectras only]

The 8L V-10 in my Viper never failed Aircare [ smog test ] and fuel economy isn't too bad if keeping your foot out of the fire wall, lol. OEM 6th gear ratio to appease the EPA, was 0.50 that allowed 60mph at 1200 rpm. My car has 4.10 final drive ratio and still getting good highway milage, cruising in 6th. My greatest concern now, and the reason I may sell the car now is, getting tires. Front, 275 35 18 is no problem but the rear, 335/345 30 18X13 is getting more difficult to find . Toyo Proxies 888, or Michelin Pilot Sports the only tires, albeit out of stock most of the times.
Got collector status since the car was 15yrs old [ 1999 model ] super low ins premium, made the car even more enjoyable but can't keep collector plate if upgrade to 19" wheels.
People claim that old muscle cars weren't reliable are wrong to say it. Had 68 Barracuda 340 Formula S 4spd vert , 68 Charger 383 auto, and 72 Challenger 340 4spd, had close to 90K miles when sold them with no major issues at all.
However, having mechanical skills is a great asset to deal with minor issues before become major on those old cars.
When you have major issues with modern cars out of warranty, you're SOL without having proper tools and hard&software .at hand.

 

[SpeedyWho]

This all goes along with the New Green Deal and climate BS. It's all by design and we have absolutely no say in it. Why do you think the dealerships don't have any new cars on the lot? Because they've already started phasing out the ICE by a war of attrition. If you believe the chip shortage nonsense your playing right into their plan. They've severely limited production to rapidly increase the transition away from traditional vehicles.

 

[TPC]

Not too many places across the USA to charge non-Tesla EV's aka J1772 SAE Chargers
If you do find one good chance its broken.

Our gasoline powered EV:

https://imgur.com/whUOEoW

 

[ridebig]

OK, here it is, Dodge will make 7 different versions of the muscle cars next year, including a convertible challenger. And.....................................REINTRODUCE THE HELLCAT DURANGO, ORDER NOW!

I hope they don't bring the Hellcat Durango back..... Because I already have one.

 

[240Hallett]

Since when is an emissions laden vehicle known as a Muscle Car???

I'll take ...

Before what year is a smog cert not required for 1000.00 Alex!

Hint: The first two numbers will be 19, not 20.

76?

 

[floatn turd]

Electric Muscle Cars................

 

[SBMech]

You don’t see many 1971 chevelles on the road after 5 years, because they were big pieces of shit. They needed valve jobs, new tires, brakes, carburetor rebuild, belts, hoses, after 5000 miles. Most never made it pass 60,000 miles. They were simple to work on, but that was it.

It was a fun time, but don’t fool yourself, those cars were made like shit too. .

As far as recalls, talk to Ralph Nader. Corvair? Pinto, Firestone 500’s, right and left handed lug nuts. The list is huge, and spans the entire history, of automotive technology. My 2022 charger has a recall. They need to disassemble my car to check a part # on a component to see if I have one. I don’t see the need to hurry and get it taken care of. They don’t have the parts available at the moment to fix it anyway.

Not a single thing you stated in this idiotic rant is even close to reality or truth, you've shown you have absolutely no understanding or background in the history of manufacturing or maintaining any era of vehicle by your completely false statements.

You fail completely in any attempt to disparage quality when Performance Vehicles were actually made.

Please stick your finger into a charging port and wish away more stupid shit.

The only thing that will happen in 3 years if the big 3 drop gasoline engines completely, is that they will go bankrupt overnight.

 

[rivermobster]

76?

Very close! 1975

Smog Inspections - California DMV

Smog inspections are required when you register or renew registration for a vehicle in California, but there are some exceptions.

www.dmv.ca.gov

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Very close! 1975

Smog Inspections - California DMV

Smog inspections are required when you register or renew registration for a vehicle in California, but there are some exceptions.

www.dmv.ca.gov

Technically he is right, because you asked "before what year", which is '76. Any car made before model year 1976 requires no smog check.

 

[gqchris]

Just watched a 77 Trans Am with 14 miles go for 200K. Not a bad investment.

I doubt I have 45 years left to sit on a car that long.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I doubt I have 45 years left to sit on a car that long.

You could have put that money into the S&P 500 in 1977 instead and had $500k today… and more space in the garage.

The same will probably be true in another 45 years.

 

[rivermobster]

Technically he is right, because you asked "before what year", which is '76. Any car made before model year 1976 requires no smog check.

Technically, true.

 

[MK1MOD0]

You could have put that money into the S&P 500 in 1977 instead and had $500k today… and more space in the garage.

The same will probably be true in another 45 years.

Tell that with those that owned ENRON stock

 

[Bigbore500r]

Do you cry when you see a video of muscle cars getting absolutely spanked by modern computer cars? My little bare bones 100% stock G35 can lay the hurt down on a lot of OG muscle and it can't even hold a candle to the current crop of muscle cars.

But I bet it sounds like somebody farting into a tuba

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Tell that with those that owned ENRON stock

Too bad for them putting all their eggs in a basket with a hole in it?

 

[SkyDirtWaterguy]

One thing I noticed when I had my Tesla M3 Performance. Very few cars could beat it from 0-60 in a drag race. But rolling along between 60-80 mph up to 100+ mph most gas powered muscle/performance cars would be able to out accelerate me and pull away from a cruise speed.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

One thing I noticed when I had my Tesla M3 Performance. Very few cars could beat it from 0-60 in a drag race. But rolling along between 60-80 mph up to 100+ mph most gas powered muscle/performance cars would be able to out accelerate me and pull away from a cruise speed.

Electric cars make max torque at 0 RPM and torque falls off from there. Gas engines make there max torque and power higher up in the RPM.

 

[SkyDirtWaterguy]

Electric cars make max torque at 0 RPM and torque falls off from there. Gas engines make there max torque and power higher up in the RPM.

Exactly!

 

[Canuck 1]

Do you cry when you see a video of muscle cars getting absolutely spanked by modern computer cars? My little bare bones 100% stock G35 can lay the hurt down on a lot of OG muscle and it can't even hold a candle to the current crop of muscle cars.

Ever watched a hellcat red cry owner cry when his ass gets handed to him by a little old 64 Ford?

 

[bocco]

Well this is not a horrible option.

Dodge unveils new electric muscle car concept that could replace the Challenger and Charger

Dodge on Wednesday unveiled a new concept car called the Charger Daytona SRT as a preview of its first all-electric muscle car, expected in 2024.

www.cnbc.com

 

[spectras only]

Definitely better looking than the four door Charger, and a Tesla. But, what's the point of making ICE exh notes to it?
Fisker Karma had that feature for their hybrid, to alert pedestrians before crossing.

 

[530RL]

Time keeps marching on and with it change.

 

[rivermobster]

Time keeps marching on and with it change.

View attachment 1147114

Also, technically true.

 

[Orange Juice]

Electric cars make max torque at 0 RPM and torque falls off from there. Gas engines make there max torque and power higher up in the RPM.

The transmission architecture is designed differently to take advantage of this difference…I assume.

Here’s the 2024 Charger.
Sounds like a wild cat.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Nope.

I worked in the dealership network for over 30 years, and then built street rods and hot rods for the remaining 10 years of my wrench turning career.

So I'm fairly familiar with the difference pre smog and computer controlled cars.

And even though I'm sure you are correct...

I promise you I can spank your G35 right off the road with a few of the vehicles I have built. And, they are as reliable as anything out there.

The problem is...

There are very few old guys like me that can make a 60's car run well. But just because most early cars Have been half assed together, doesn't mean that they Can't be built right with the right amount of dollars and sense.

A true muscle car didn't come from the factory with fuel injection on it!!!

My 330ci is fast and handles great, but I would NEVER in a million years refer to it as any kind of "muscle car" .

But as far as crying goes...

I'm pretty sure the 5 Series Beemer I spanked one day, with a Buick Skylark I built, will Never try and call out an early muscle car Ever again!

View attachment 1146700

I'd put my old 406 Mustang against your G35 all day long.

I've seen a couple pictures of your cars, they appear to be really nice, and I'm sure very well built and I appreciate a well built and or restored muscle car as much or more than the next guy, but I'm referring to stock to stock. ANYTHING can be built to be fast after market.

Ever watched a hellcat red cry owner cry when his ass gets handed to him by a little old 64 Ford?

Anything can be built to be fast with aftermarket parts.

BTW, I challenge anybody to find a muscle or earlier car that was built WITHOUT computer controlled machines or designs that can compete with modern muscle cars.

 

[attitude]

I've seen a couple pictures of your cars, they appear to be really nice, and I'm sure very well built and I appreciate a well built and or restored muscle car as much or more than the next guy, but I'm referring to stock to stock. ANYTHING can be built to be fast after market.

Anything can be built to be fast with aftermarket parts.

BTW, I challenge anybody to find a muscle or earlier car that was built WITHOUT computer controlled machines or designs that can compete with modern muscle cars.

A 69 ZL1 is about as good as you are going to get in a straight line.

 

[rivermobster]

I've seen a couple pictures of your cars, they appear to be really nice, and I'm sure very well built and I appreciate a well built and or restored muscle car as much or more than the next guy, but I'm referring to stock to stock. ANYTHING can be built to be fast after market.

Anything can be built to be fast with aftermarket parts.

BTW, I challenge anybody to find a muscle or earlier car that was built WITHOUT computer controlled machines or designs that can compete with modern muscle cars.

Thanks.

You have way too many variables going on here! Define "modern muscle car" for me please?

I've been pretty clear on my definition of what I think a muscle car is.

What's yours?

















P. S. In stock form, I'll take a Boss 429 for the win.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

A 69 ZL1 is about as good as you are going to get in a straight line.

Even those were 11 second cars (couldn't find any verified testing of a stocker, likely due to its extremely limited production) and even those would have to have the perfect run to beat the modern muscle from the big 3 (GT500 runs 11.4, Camaro ZL1 11.5, Hellcat redeye 11.6)

Thanks.

You have way too many variables going on here! Define "modern muscle car" for me please?

I've been pretty clear on my definition of what I think a muscle car is.

What's yours?

















P. S. In stock form, I'll take a Boss 429 for the win.

I'd define a modern muscle car as a 2 door, rear wheel drive, capable of 4 passengers (base models that is) V8 powered cars that are designed to perform and ergonomics are secondary to performance. I'd say that modern era started right around 2010.

And btw, your Boss 429 would go neck and neck with my lowly non-muscle car G35 as it's stock 1/4 mile performance is 13.3.... just as is the V6 powered G35

 

[rivermobster]

Even those were 11 second cars (couldn't find any verified testing of a stocker, likely due to its extremely limited production) and even those would have to have the perfect run to beat the modern muscle from the big 3 (GT500 runs 11.4, Camaro ZL1 11.5, Hellcat redeye 11.6)


I'd define a modern muscle car as a 2 door, rear wheel drive, capable of 4 passengers (base models that is) V8 powered cars that are designed to perform and ergonomics are secondary to performance. I'd say that modern era started right around 2010.

And btw, your Boss 429 would go neck and neck with my lowly non-muscle car G35 as it's stock 1/4 mile performance is 13.3.... just as is the V6 powered G35

2010 and newer. Ok. I guess that explains the Modern part of the equation then.

And you want to compete with something production built before computers were a thing.

Lemme give that some thought. Right now I'm Way chilled out and am gonna make some chocolate chip cookies to go with an ice cold glass of milk.

I'll get back to ya on that...

 

[Canuck 1]

I've seen a couple pictures of your cars, they appear to be really nice, and I'm sure very well built and I appreciate a well built and or restored muscle car as much or more than the next guy, but I'm referring to stock to stock. ANYTHING can be built to be fast after market.

Anything can be built to be fast with aftermarket parts.

BTW, I challenge anybody to find a muscle or earlier car that was built WITHOUT computer controlled machines or designs that can compete with modern muscle cars.

64 Ford Fairlane Thunderbolt
68 L88 Vette

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

64 Ford Fairlane Thunderbolt
68 L88 Vette

A modern Toyota Camry will outhandle a stock 68 vette (sad but true). A modern stock Camaro SS will kill a stock L88 Vette in every form of automotive competition.

If you are going to dump $60K into the Vette from places like Detroit Speed and put a modern engine in it, you'll have a car that will hang with a new Camaro.

Any stock modern v8 muscle car will run with a mid 11 to low 12 sec pass like a factory drag race Thunderbolt. And the Thunderbolt can't stop or turn.

You can go buy a COPO Camaro today that is the equivalent of the Thunderbolt (factory drag car), and it will run low 8s.

 

[Canuck 1]

A modern Toyota Camry will outhandle a stock 68 vette (sad but true). A modern stock Camaro SS will kill a stock L88 Vette in every form of automotive competition.

If you are going to dump $60K into the Vette from places like Detroit Speed and put a modern engine in it, you'll have a car that will hang with a new Camaro.

Any stock modern v8 muscle car will run with a mid 11 to low 12 sec pass like a factory drag race Thunderbolt. And the Thunderbolt can't stop or turn.

You can go buy a COPO Camaro today that is the equivalent of the Thunderbolt (factory drag car), and it will run low 8s.

You lost all credibility when you brought a toyoture into the mix, now run along great pumpkin

Modern engine? Hahahahahahaha

BTW my Tbolt is street legal, is the COPO?

You're such a tool

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You lost all credibility when you brought a toyoture into the mix, now run along great pumpkin

Modern engine? Hahahahahahaha

BTW my Tbolt is street legal, is the COPO?

You're such a tool

Pull yore pants up. Your ignorance is showing.

A $40K new v8 Camaro will spank the Tbolt with a $400 set of drag radials. You don't even need a COPO.

Technology marches on..

Let me add that a 2022 Camry does 0-60 in 5.1 seconds.. An L88 C3 Vette did 0-60 in 4.7 seconds

Its not looking good for those bias ply tires through a slalom or skidpad either.

 

[SBMech]

Pull yore pants up. Your ignorance is showing.

A $40K new v8 Camaro will spank the Tbolt with a $400 set of drag radials. You don't even need a COPO.

Technology marches on..

Let me add that a 2022 Camry does 0-60 in 5.1 seconds.. An L88 C3 Vette did 0-60 in 4.7 seconds

Its not looking good for those bias ply tires through a slalom or skidpad either.

Stock testing on factory ZL1 with optional equipment (headers and the dual quad tunnel ram in the trunk) pushed it into the high 9's low 10's in tests done by Hot Rod.

Similar results done for the Thunderbolt and 429 69 Mustang. Both were high 9's low 10's depending on where/when they were run.

These were extremely rare vehicles with tiny production runs built purposely for dominating at the strip, and super expensive for the day.

I will be the first to hate to admit it however, modern hot rods shit all over the old iron, and are turn key with A/C.....get to have your cake and eat it in comfort too!

To me, that smell of raw fuel and audio experience of open 4 inch headers uncapped when you light one of those beasts off....orgasmic.

Everyone should get a chance to drive an old Trans Am race car someday....it's something special.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

64 Ford Fairlane Thunderbolt
68 L88 Vette

Both of which are in the mix with the generic muscle cars on today. Forget about the high performance versions.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Stock testing on factory ZL1 with optional equipment (headers and the dual quad tunnel ram in the trunk) pushed it into the high 9's low 10's in tests done by Hot Rod.

Similar results done for the Thunderbolt and 429 69 Mustang. Both were high 9's low 10's depending on where/when they were run.

These were extremely rare vehicles with tiny production runs built purposely for dominating at the strip, and super expensive for the day.

I will be the first to hate to admit it however, modern hot rods shit all over the old iron, and are turn key with A/C.....get to have your cake and eat it in comfort too!

To me, that smell of raw fuel and audio experience of open 4 inch headers uncapped when you light one of those beasts off....orgasmic.

Everyone should get a chance to drive an old Trans Am race car someday....it's something special.

I agree the experience is different and in some cases better.

But as you said, it takes a $125k+ restomod build to hang with a modern $50k muscle car.

If got friends with vintage race cars I’ve ran with out at the track, and sadly the modern stuff spanks them. That does not make them any less fun or engrossing to drive however.

 

[boatpi]

My eyes are all over the 2023 Durango Hellcat! Ordering begins in September.

 

[Canuck 1]

Both of which are in the mix with the generic muscle cars on today. Forget about the high performance versions.

Just for you and the pumpkin

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Just for you and the pumpkin

If being bitter was a sport, you’d be the Lebron James of the National Bitterness Association.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Just for you and the pumpkin

Once again...... you pulled up a built car. The displacement and compression has been bumped pretty substantially in that Vette. Someone could do similar to the hellcat if they wanted as well and make it quicker. What's your point?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Once again...... you pulled up a built car. The displacement and compression has been bumped pretty substantially in that Vette. Someone could do similar to the hellcat if they wanted as well and make it quicker. What's your point?

He had no point.

My dad owned a (1of 20) 1967 L88 Corvette for a time. He said his stock 2014 ZL1 Camaro is way faster than the L88 car was, and all the published numbers prove that out.

The L88 vette blew a head gasket and he sold it.

 

[Canuck 1]

If being bitter was a sport, you’d be the Lebron James of the National Bitterness Association.

Once again...... you pulled up a built car. The displacement and compression has been bumped pretty substantially in that Vette. Someone could do similar to the hellcat if they wanted as well and make it quicker. What's your point?

Pure stock drags, not built up.... stock

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Pure stock drags, not built up.... stock

Might want to watch yore own video.

Note the car is orange

 

[Taboma]

You lost all credibility when you brought a toyoture into the mix, now run along great pumpkin

Modern engine? Hahahahahahaha

BTW my Tbolt is street legal, is the COPO?

You're such a tool

Only in Arizona where hemi golf carts are legal

 

[Don_Juan]

The new Dodge electric "muscle" car will come with fake, amplified exhaust noise that includes gear shifting. And it will be slower from 0-60 than the Tesla. Some muscle car.