Fastest round I’ve ever seen was a group of “Snow Bird” gentlemen at Los Serranos. We were 2nd out and begged the starter to let us go first. Those guys went out in individual carts and we never saw them after the 3rd hole. They played complete ready golf. Very impressive.Funny you said that. In the winter in Havasu Snow bird crowd can slow all the golf down. It drives me crazy to see these birds playing from wrong tee boxes and sitting out 270 yards waiting for the green to clear.
I think they're all gone now.New course name should be the Mangy Coyote instead of Iron Wolf, that fits the locale better lol
Agreed but in my case I bought a lot with no view and no intent to golf and can’t afford the increase.Just my .02, if one bought a home there with the premise of having a manicured course in your backyard, one can probably afford the increase.
sitting out 270 and waiting knowing full well they cannot hit the ball that far....Funny you said that. In the winter in Havasu Snow bird crowd can slow all the golf down. It drives me crazy to see these birds playing from wrong tee boxes and sitting out 270 yards waiting for the green to clear.
I have always been an advocate of play the tees on a course that suit your playing level. If you drive the ball like a pro, play the tips. Drive it under 200, play the tee boxes accordingly so your second shot is a manageable 100 to 160 to hit the GIR a decent percentage of the time .Totally agree. I’ve no problem with seniors hitting from the Ladies Tees. That can speed up play. But then waiting to hit their 2nd shot when they’re 250+ from the green is plain crazy.
Yes I had a very good pro tell me if you can not hit the green on your second shot you are on the wrong Tees.Totally agree. I’ve no problem with seniors hitting from the Ladies Tees. That can speed up play. But then waiting to hit their 2nd shot when they’re 250+ from the green is plain crazy.
Any updates on when the Refuge will be open?
It’s great to hear progress is being made. Looks like you’ve got some of the fairways/greens back in decent shape.We are hopeful to have the club house open this summer and the course by end of year
A lot of hard work and. TLC. Is taking place
we can already see major improvements taking place
The wolf is coming
Is there any news on the Refuge? When will the golf course be open.It’s great to hear progress is being made. Looks like you’ve got some of the fairways/greens back in decent shape.
Haven’t heard much. @satellitemike had some info.Is there any news on the Refuge? When will the golf course be open.
There was an HOA meeting last week and rumor has it the restaurant will be open in a few months and the GC at the end of this year or early 2023.Is there any news on the Refuge? When will the golf course be open.
How did you play today?There was an HOA meeting last week and rumor has it the restaurant will be open in a few months and the GC at the end of this year or early 2023.
Is the restaurant open? I saw someone on FB got married there, looks like the reception was in the tent? When we left the restaurant was pretty tore up from construction.There was an HOA meeting last week and rumor has it the restaurant will be open in a few months and the GC at the end of this year or early 2023.
Did well on the front, 5 over. The back not so good, my back tightened up on the 14th and went downhill quickly!How did you play today?
Pretty sure it is not. Probably brought in catering?Is the restaurant open? I saw someone on FB got married there, looks like the reception was in the tent? When we left the restaurant was pretty tore up from construction.
Love to hear they’re into the details. The maintenance just off the rough was non-existent. The amount of dead brush just in the area across from the pond was staggering. It was years of neglect. They needed one less guy standing in the pro shop and one more guy with a truck/chainsaw roaming the course.They've been doing a lot of work especially tree trimming and clearing out the over growth.
To bring this course back to shape considering the condition it was in is going to take a lot and now the summer heat is kicking in.
Not sure what they're doing at the middle pond but it almost looks like a beach area now.
Kudos to the new owner for taking on such a big task. It will still take some time
View attachment 1118481 View attachment 1118482
We have a house on home 1 and he’s cleaned it up really nice. He’s dumping water on the course and it’s starting to come back. When he took over it looked unrepairable. The wolf is coming…If they are doing work on the golf course, I sure can’t see it. Only looking worse each time I pass by.
Saw this today ....What is happening with the Fairway Inn? It was sold and looks like some changes have started??
Interesting article in this Morning’s New York Times on golf course evolution / conversion.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/24/...ent-housing.html?referringSource=articleShare
SQUARE FEET
Amid a Housing Crunch, Homes Pop Up on the Fairway
With large expanses of grass and trees, former golf courses are being reconsidered for housing, but developers face challenges, including community resistance.
By Keith Schneider
SAN TAN VALLEY, Ariz. — Buffeted by rising costs and declining interest from golfers, the Links at Queen Creek course closed two years ago after 26 years of operation. But with the demand for housing in Arizona soaring, Walt Brown Jr. saw a different fate for the 106-acre parcel of grass and palm trees southeast of Phoenix.
- May 24, 2022, 9:00 a.m. ET
Mr. Brown, the chief executive of Diversified Partners, a developer in Scottsdale, Ariz., bought the property this year for $16.8 million. His new project, the Ironwood Springs Ranch, will include 172 homes on nearly 49 acres.
Across the country, developers like Mr. Brown see potential for construction on struggling golf courses. Large expanses of grass and trees sewn into the fabric of prosperous communities look like open space ripe for development. When it comes to golf courses, though, looks can be deceiving, and developers have learned to be cautious.
“You have a great piece of real estate,” said Jonathan S. Grebow, founder and chief executive of Ridgewood Real Estate Partners, a New Jersey firm that specializes in golf course redevelopment. “But after closing, it can take three, four, five years to start construction.”
The two biggest challenges are strict zoning regulations and community resistance, experts say.
Mr. Brown received county approval for his project, which will include stores, restaurants and a hotel on more than 30 acres, as well as walking trails that wind around two small lakes and through a seven-acre public park.
“We were able to work through the zoning,” he said. “After we showed residents the totality of our project, the trails and the park, neighbors were really cooperative.”
For residential developers, the opportunities are numerous: From 1986 to 2006, 4,400 new courses were built around the country, according to the National Golf Foundation, an industry research group. But since then, more than 1,000 have closed. Many others have gone on the market as revenues decline and operational expenses climb, including the high cost of water for irrigation.
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That is especially true in Arizona, where every day in the summer, golf courses consume three to five acre-feet of water. (An acre-foot is the amount of water needed to cover one acre of land one foot deep, or nearly 326,000 gallons, and can cost $1,000, depending on the water source.) The state’s 302 courses use 119,000 acre-feet, or nearly four billion gallons, of water per year, according to the Arizona Department of Water Resources.
Water and other costs were an issue in the conversion of the Rancho Vistoso Golf Club, north of Tucson, into a 202-acre natural preserve. Preserve Vistoso, a community group, collaborated with the Conservation Fund, a national environmental group, to raise $1.8 million to acquire the course this year and donate it to the Town of Oro Valley.
South of downtown Phoenix, Tri Pointe Homes paid $22.6 million for the 144-acre Vistal Golf Club, which closed in 2015 after nearly 50 years of operation. Swept up in Arizona’s strong market for new housing, the plans to convert the former fairway into a multifamily development called Avance, with 394 homes, a community pool and a health center, are nearing completion.
Many golf courses are on the market as operational expenses climb, including the high cost of water for irrigation.Credit...Adriana Zehbrauskas for The New York Times
Ridgewood, the New Jersey developer, has collaborated with Concert Golf Partners of Florida to redevelop exclusive private golf clubs in Pennsylvania and Florida. Concert Golf buys the clubs, then renovates and takes over operations of clubhouses and recreational assets. Ridgewood buys land on the closed courses for home construction.
An example of their partnership is the Fountains Country Club in Palm Beach County, Fla. A gated community that opened in 1970, the Fountains had 1,700 residences and three courses, one of which closed. In 2018, members sold their fading clubhouse and the three courses to Concert Golf for $13 million.
Concert Golf started renovating the clubhouse and other facilities, and Ridgewood bought land on the long-closed 150-acre North Course, where construction on 318 apartments and 270 townhomes has started.
The companies are teaming up on a similar project to renovate the clubhouse and build homes on 61 acres of the closed South Course at the Philmont Country Club in Huntingdon Valley, Pa.
“It’s a strong model for helping clubs stay in business,” said Peter Nanula, chief executive of Concert Golf. “Club members who are volunteers can’t do this work by themselves.”
In overhauling the country clubs, Ridgewood and Concert Golf were able to solve a major impediment to redeveloping old and troubled courses: redesigning and installing water supply and drainage infrastructure.
“Water systems used for a golf course are much different than what is needed for new homes and businesses,” said Brent Billingsley, community development director for Pinal County, Ariz. “The cost to make the change is significant.”
But a bigger challenge was public opposition. Fierce fights have erupted in Arizona, California, Florida, Illinois, New York and Nevada, typically involving homeowners battling to keep courses operating to preserve their home values, neighbors objecting to more traffic or communities blocking zoning changes to prevent new homes or to preserve the course as public open space.
In Phoenix, the owner of Ahwatukee Lakes Golf Course closed the course in 2013 after struggling with escalating costs for water and other operational expenses and left fairways, greens and lakes in disrepair. Neighbors objected to several buyers and their plans for new housing and sued to reopen Ahwatukee for golf.
In 2018 and 2019, two Arizona courts ruled in favor of the plaintiffs and set a September 2022 deadline for the original owner to restore the course and fully resume its original purpose. (One court found the site had been closed in violation of a covenant.) Nine holes have already been restored.
In another example nearly five years ago, Ridgewood Partners paid $13 million for the 108-acre Elmwood Country Club in Greenburgh, N.Y. According to the town’s zoning rules, Ridgewood had the authority to build 119 single-family homes on the parcel. Mr. Grebow, the chief executive, proposed a zoning change to allow 175 townhomes on a portion of the site and devote the rest to open space, including making eight acres available for a public park.
The Greenburgh Conservation Advisory Council opposed the idea because it would increase housing density in an area zoned for single-family homes. Mr. Grebow countered with a proposal to reduce the number of townhomes to 159, but the Town Board rejected the zoning change last month and recommended a plan for 113 homes and the park.
“We believe our proposal was the best use of the land,” said Mr. Grebow, who is proceeding and will develop 113 units. “But the community felt that the increase in density didn’t outweigh the benefits.”
Mr. Brown, the Arizona developer, also knows the frustration of community resistance. In 2020, he paid $4.5 million for the Calumet Country Club in Homewood, Ill., a Chicago suburb, with plans to convert the 121-year-old course, which lies near Interstates 80 and 294, into a logistics center for warehousing and fulfillment.
But the idea attracted formidable opposition from Homewood residents who objected to an expected increase in truck traffic. They want the course to be converted into a public park.
“It is an unneeded development in an over-industrialized part of Chicago where we have very little green space,” said Liz Varmecky, founder of South Suburbs for Greenspace, a community group.
In 2020, residents persuaded the Village Board to turn down Mr. Brown’s application for a zoning change. Since then, he has kept the course open. After suing to have the country club site de-annexed from Homewood, Mr. Brown submitted a different development plan for the 128-acre course to the Cook County Board of Commissioners.
The new proposal calls for renovating the clubhouse, adding industrial space for a construction trades training center, building a retail center with restaurants and a hotel, and developing 30 acres of open space with walking trails.
“We’ve made a lot of progress,” said Mr. Brown, who anticipates county approval this year.
It’s been done at Havasu Golf Cub.. He has sold people 20 ft extensions to their yards into the golf course. He has also redoned part of the golf course and sold the lots for new homes.Based on what it was bought for, and what some of the bitchin view lots are selling for in Havasu the guy could make a fortune. The views from some of the fairways are spectacular, with similar view lots selling for close to a million like in the Riviera. Zoning would have to changed but its been done elsewhere in the country.
Where the RV park was going to go should be lots. Those lots would pay 5x for what he paid for the course.Based on what it was bought for, and what some of the bitchin view lots are selling for in Havasu the guy could make a fortune. The views from some of the fairways are spectacular, with similar view lots selling for close to a million like in the Riviera. Zoning would have to changed but its been done elsewhere in the country.
That’s too bad. I was hoping they’d keep it open to the public. I wouldn’t be able to get more than a couple rounds a month in. $900 a month is pretty steep for that. Guess someone with a lot there should join.Just a little update.
The refuge golf course, I mean Iron wolf golf course will be private!
Not sure how well this is going to work?
Sorry but not sure how to post a readable PDF here.
Proposed Membership Program (June 2022) 12 Month Membership Plan Signature Golf Membership (Non-Resident) - 12 month ● One time $6.500 Initiation Fee ● Monthly dues ○ Single - $600 ○ Couple - $700 ○ Family - $800 ● Food & Beverage Minimums ○ Single - $300 ○ Couple - $400 ○ Family - $400 Signature Golf Membership (Resident) - 12 month ● One time $4000 Initiation Fee ● Monthly dues ○ Single - First two years - $500 ○ Couple - First two years - $600 ○ Family - First two years - $700 ● Food & Beverage Minimum ○ Single - $200 ○ Couple - $300 ○ Family - $300 6 Month Seasonal Membership Plan- Includes Golf Seasonal Membership (Non-Resident) - 6 month ● One time $6500 Initiation Fee ● Monthly dues ○ Single - $600 ○ Couple - $700 ○ Family - $800 ● Food & Beverage Minimums ○ Single - $300 ○ Couple - $400 ○ Family - $400 Seasonal Membership (Resident) - 6 month ● One time $4000 Initiation Fee ● Monthly dues ○ Single - First two years - $600 ○ Couple - First two years - $700 ○ Family - First two years - $800 ● Food & Beverage Minimum ○ Single - $300 ○ Couple = $400 ○ Family - $400 Social Membership Plan Social Membership (Non-Resident) ● One time $3500 Initiation Fee ● Monthly dues ○ Single - $200 ○ Couple - $300 ○ Family - $400 ● Food & Beverage Minimums ○ Single - $300 ○ Couple - $400 ○ Family - $500 Social Membership (Resident) ● One time $2000 Initiation Fee ● Monthly dues ○ Single - $200 ○ Couple. $300 ○ Family - $400 ● Food & Minimum ○ Single - $150 ○ Couple - $300 ○ Family - $300
Wonder if they will have any reciprocity agreements, or other things like membership holds/pauses. Edit: saw the 6 month deal so holds/pauses is already thought of for the snow birds. Hope it works out well for them.Just a little update.
The refuge golf course, I mean Iron wolf golf course will be private!
Not sure how well this is going to work?
Sorry but not sure how to post a readable PDF here.
Proposed Membership Program (June 2022) 12 Month Membership Plan Signature Golf Membership (Non-Resident) - 12 month ● One time $6.500 Initiation Fee ● Monthly dues ○ Single - $600 ○ Couple - $700 ○ Family - $800 ● Food & Beverage Minimums ○ Single - $300 ○ Couple - $400 ○ Family - $400 Signature Golf Membership (Resident) - 12 month ● One time $4000 Initiation Fee ● Monthly dues ○ Single - First two years - $500 ○ Couple - First two years - $600 ○ Family - First two years - $700 ● Food & Beverage Minimum ○ Single - $200 ○ Couple - $300 ○ Family - $300 6 Month Seasonal Membership Plan- Includes Golf Seasonal Membership (Non-Resident) - 6 month ● One time $6500 Initiation Fee ● Monthly dues ○ Single - $600 ○ Couple - $700 ○ Family - $800 ● Food & Beverage Minimums ○ Single - $300 ○ Couple - $400 ○ Family - $400 Seasonal Membership (Resident) - 6 month ● One time $4000 Initiation Fee ● Monthly dues ○ Single - First two years - $600 ○ Couple - First two years - $700 ○ Family - First two years - $800 ● Food & Beverage Minimum ○ Single - $300 ○ Couple = $400 ○ Family - $400 Social Membership Plan Social Membership (Non-Resident) ● One time $3500 Initiation Fee ● Monthly dues ○ Single - $200 ○ Couple - $300 ○ Family - $400 ● Food & Beverage Minimums ○ Single - $300 ○ Couple - $400 ○ Family - $500 Social Membership (Resident) ● One time $2000 Initiation Fee ● Monthly dues ○ Single - $200 ○ Couple. $300 ○ Family - $400 ● Food & Minimum ○ Single - $150 ○ Couple - $300 ○ Family - $300
WowWonder if they will have any reciprocity agreements, or other things like membership holds/pauses.
Wow what? A lot of country clubs have agreements aka reciprocal agreements with others for their members to use facilities/courses.
Wow as in the info in the post about the private and dues as a former homeowner there, not yoursWow what? A lot of country clubs have agreements aka reciprocal agreements with others for their members to use facilities/courses.
Ah..you quoted me vs that post. Gotcha.Wow as in the info in the post about the private and dues as a former homeowner there, not yours
It’s what we had I assume, you can use the bar, restaurant, gym and pool, you still had to pay for golf. It was $100 a month and I think there was a $50 food / drink minimum.What do you get with your social membership?
Just a slight jump.. It will keep the riffraff out. By that i mean me.It’s what we had I assume, you can use the bar, restaurant, gym and pool, you still had to pay for golf. It was $100 a month and I think there was a $50 food / drink minimum.
Unlimited golf?What a joke. We pay 4200 for the year at Laughlin Ranch for 2
Unlimited golf, free driving range and 20 percent off of food and pro shop stuffUnlimited golf?
Rates must have gone up. Link says 5K. Looks like a nice course.What a joke. We pay 4200 for the year at Laughlin Ranch for 2