The Refuge

[ONE-A-DAY]

Just got back to havasu
They were watering everything on friday and the pond was filling back up

Lots of watering goin on today.

 

[HNL2LHC]

Not to side track but there are a few golfers in this thread. Anyone know why the water feature at the Emerald Canyon Cove Golf Course? It was flowing last year but dry this summer. Do they always drain it in the summers? I never really noticed.

 

[TCHB]

No water shortage here in Utah.

 

[Turnup]

.....Seems like there's plenty of people with serious dough in town that have to be chomping at the bit..

Looks like I was on to something here.......

 

[185EZ]

Are they still watering the course?

Greens are coming back to life

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Greens are coming back to life
View attachment 1051920

There is at least one employee out each morning driving the course and turning on the valves manually, seen him out a few times this week when im out early walking the dog.

 

[c_land]

I’m actually at the old FALLBROOK Country Club today checking on a project it’s turning into a really nice winery one I think the homeowners will be proud of!

There's one of those deals going into palm springs. I think they are calling it Miralon. The are redeveloping the golf course portion with Olive Orchards.

Model homes for new Palm Springs 'agrihood' opening in early 2020 among olive groves

Miralon, with home prices starting in the high $500,000s, will have acres of olive trees. Condos in the $300,000s are also planned.

www.desertsun.com

 

[Turnup]

Zoom meeting update from yesterday. It sounds like the offer the HOA made on the golf course and restaurant is going nowhere, so the HOA board voted in favor of purchasing the foreclosing note directly from the bank, it's about $1.9M. I guess their logic here is if the owners default on the note with the HOA owning it there's a potential for the HOA to foreclose and obtain the course & restaurant that way vs buying it on the open market and if they don't foreclose and it gets purchased their note gets paid back under the sale

 

[Mandelon]

The bank may not wish to sell it to them for face value. If the bank thinks they can get more for it on the market, they may choose to go that route.

I don't know if this is a loan that will sell on the courthouse steps or not. If it is the HOA will need to be ready. If the bank doesn't think they will get more for the property, the HOA could possibly work out a short sale and get it for less than the 1.9 million. But they better get proactive asap.

 

[Turnup]

Notes don't sell on the courthouse steps unless they are foreclosed on whereby the note is paid off. Purchasing a note bank direct prior to foreclosure is viable and doable, banks can't sell for higher than what's owed any surplus belongs to the borrower.

 

[Turnup]

I guess they are trying to be proactive asap which is why it went from a purchase of the actual asset to a purchase of the note in a minute. Unfortunately for those homeowners that voted in favor of attempting the asset purchase were duped and the HOA is now going after the note. The way I see it

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Notes don't sell on the courthouse steps unless they are foreclosed on whereby the note is paid off. Purchasing a note bank direct prior to foreclosure is viable and doable, banks can't sell for higher than what's owed any surplus belongs to the borrower.

That’s the way I understood it, the bank is basically saying take over payments so to speak and they solve their problem quick and easy and we get the course for 1.9 which is a bargain. I’m not sure how the contributions that home owners elected to make figure into it, ie if we own a share based on the amount given. That amount gathered from the owners was pretty large so it could also be used for needed capital improvements. At the end of the day it looks like we have a resolution. The course is getting watered daily and starting to come back and the liquor licensed was secured for the bar (most important to us )

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

I guess they are trying to be proactive asap which is why it went from a purchase of the actual asset to a purchase of the note in a minute. Unfortunately for those homeowners that voted in favor of attempting the asset purchase were duped and the HOA is now going after the note. The way I see it

True, but the purchase price is at 1.9 now, down from 4.9 and the money raised can be used for capital improvements to make the place more marketable

 

[Turnup]

You can't capitally improve an asset you don't own, and owning a note doesn't make you the owner. There's a little bit of smoke & mirrors going on here. The HOA will have zero ability to improve, upgrade, maintain, or facilitate any changes whatsoever.

 

[530RL]

You can't capitally improve an asset you don't own, and owning a note doesn't make you the owner. There's a little bit of smoke & mirrors going on here. The HOA will have zero ability to improve, upgrade, maintain, or facilitate any changes whatsoever.

The owner of the note (lender) has the right under most standard notes to incur expenses to maintain the condition of their collateral.

Secondly the owner of a note (lender) has the right under most standard notes to petition the court to insert a receiver if the asset is not being maintained.

Purchasing the note is a rational strategy. It does have a ways to go including most likely a bankruptcy filing by the borrower. But it is most likely a single asset entity and the stay will eventually be lifted. Given the Arizona courts have already ruled that it has to be a golf course, If I was the HOA I would not worry one bit that someone else is going to show up and bid on that asset once it goes to Trustee's sale. I suspect that thing as a golf course is an economic liability and the only people who have an economic interest in keeping it green and subsidizing the losses are the homeowners who live on the course.

 

[Turnup]

The owner of the note (lender) has the right under most standard notes to incur expenses to maintain the condition of their collateral.

Secondly the owner of a note (lender) has the right under most standard notes to petition the court to insert a receiver if the asset is not being maintained.

Purchasing the note is a rational strategy. It does have a ways to go including most likely a bankruptcy filing by the borrower. But it is most likely a single asset entity and the stay will eventually be lifted. Given the Arizona courts have already ruled that it has to be a golf course, If I was the HOA I would not worry one bit that someone else is going to show up and bid on that asset once it goes to Trustee's sale. I suspect that thing as a golf course is an economic liability and the only people who have an economic interest in keeping it green and subsidizing the losses are the homeowners who live on the course.

Ya they don't have a right to go in and remodel the restaurant, change the outdoor tenting venues, add poolside service etc etc which is what the HOA is talking about doing. Those are capital improvements...watering the grass so the shit doesn't die is a different story.

 

[Turnup]

I'll reiterate, a little bit of smoke & mirrors..

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

I'll reiterate, a little bit of smoke & mirrors..

I agree its confusing as fak, I have learned more about the process and the behind the scenes on RDP then I have being on the zoom calls. If it just gets watered we are ahead of the game. My wish is that we, aka the HOA bring in a third party management company to run the place, like a Troon or similar. If that happens they will fix the place up and property values / ability to sell more lots should go up.

I also think the existing home and property owners should be grandfathered but whenever a property changes hands there should be a built in mandatory course membership fee included in the selling the price, again I am not sure that is possible but it would make sense that if you want to live in golf course community you should chip in.

 

[530RL]

I agree its confusing as fak, I have learned more about the process and the behind the scenes on RDP then I have being on the zoom calls. If it just gets watered we are ahead of the game. My wish is that we, aka the HOA bring in a third party management company to run the place, like a Troon or similar. If that happens they will fix the place up and property values / ability to sell more lots should go up.

I also think the existing home and property owners should be grandfathered but whenever a property changes hands there should be a built in mandatory course membership fee included in the selling the price, again I am not sure that is possible but it would make sense that if you want to live in golf course community you should chip in.

The HOA probably just wants a resolution as quickly and as cheaply as possible. So if they have the will, financial resources and the lender was agreeable, the HOA could buy the defaulted note for a fraction of what the owner/borrower wants for the asset and put the asset in foreclosure as well as petition for a receiver by this afternoon. Ends all the BS negotiating with a seller.

Just another way to skin the cat.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

The HOA probably just wants a resolution as quickly and as cheaply as possible. So if they have the will, financial resources and the lender was agreeable, the HOA could buy the defaulted note for a fraction of what the owner/borrower wants for the asset and put the asset in foreclosure as well as petition for a receiver by this afternoon. Ends all the BS negotiating with a seller.

Just another way to skin the cat.

That makes sense, bank wins and HOA wins getting the course below market. $1.9 is owed to Horizon bank and there are 830k in current liabilities and a 348k cart lease which I am assuming would all have to be assumed by the HOA if they get the place from Horizon as discussed. Monthly dues are only supposed go up to $215 per month and $115 of that could be redeemable at the bar and restaurant which is a pretty good idea to get the money back into the organization.

 

[Doc]

That makes sense, bank wins and HOA wins getting the course below market. $1.9 is owed to Horizon bank and there are 830k in current liabilities and a 348k cart lease which I am assuming would all have to be assumed by the HOA if they get the place from Horizon as discussed. Monthly dues are only supposed go up to $215 per month and $115 of that could be redeemable at the bar and restaurant which is a pretty good idea to get the money back into the organization.

All true but you home owners need to remember it's going to cost some money to get that restaurant back open and operational. The liquor license is just one part of the puzzle. I would set an additional budget for that place to reopen.

 

[530RL]

That makes sense, bank wins and HOA wins getting the course below market. $1.9 is owed to Horizon bank and there are 830k in current liabilities and a 348k cart lease which I am assuming would all have to be assumed by the HOA if they get the place from Horizon as discussed. Monthly dues are only supposed go up to $215 per month and $115 of that could be redeemable at the bar and restaurant which is a pretty good idea to get the money back into the organization.

I'd have to see all the docs but in general, the note may be where the entity/borrower has pledged the asset/golf course as collateral. It is just a mortgage on the golf course and not also a revolving line for the golf course operations. That would typically be a separate loan. The owner of the note is foreclosing on the golf course asset and/or any assets securing that note. It is not taking on the operations of the entity that runs the golf course but starting a whole new golf course operation de novo.

If the 830 in current liabilities is a debt owed by the entity for its operations, it might not be secured by the golf course asset or will at minimum remain an obligation of the old entity that lost the golf course asset and not a liability of the successful new owner of that specific golf course asset.

Cart deal is most likely the same. The cart lease is between the old operator that lost its golf course asset and the cart leasing company.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

I'd have to see all the docs but in general, the note may be where the entity/borrower has pledged the asset/golf course as collateral. It is just a mortgage on the golf course and not also a revolving line for the golf course operations. That would typically be a separate loan. The owner of the note is foreclosing on the golf course asset and/or any assets securing that note. It is not taking on the operations of the entity that runs the golf course but starting a whole new golf course operation de novo.

If the 830 in current liabilities is a debt owed by the entity for its operations, it might not be secured by the golf course asset or will at minimum remain an obligation of the old entity that lost the golf course asset and not a liability of the successful new owner of that specific golf course asset.

Cart deal is most likely the same. The cart lease is between the old operator that lost its golf course asset and the cart leasing company.

So old owner files BK to deal with the cart lease and the 830 in liabilites?

 

[530RL]

So old owner files BK to deal with the cart lease and the 830 in liabilites?

Typically the current owner files BK to stay your foreclosure and to stay the appointment of a receiver.

That will buy a little time as they will get to put forward a "plan of reorganization".

Eventually the plan will most likely fail to be confirmed, the stay is lifted and the foreclosure can go forward. The unsecured creditors get screwed the most although they can come pick up the carts once the plan fails to be confirmed if it is a lease.

The sooner you move forward with the head banging process the sooner it gets over with. Kicking the can down the road just extends the pain and fees paid to the lawyers.

 

[Turnup]

Looks like they dropped the price and got a buyer on the hook

3275 Latrobe Dr, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86404 - MLS 1017948 - Coldwell Banker

Sold - 3275 Latrobe Dr, Lake Havasu City, AZ - $2,950,000. View details, map and photos of this commercial property with 0 bedrooms and 0 total baths. MLS# 1017948.

www.coldwellbankerhomes.com

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Looks like they dropped the price and got a buyer on the hook

3275 Latrobe Dr, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86404 - MLS 1017948 - Coldwell Banker

Sold - 3275 Latrobe Dr, Lake Havasu City, AZ - $2,950,000. View details, map and photos of this commercial property with 0 bedrooms and 0 total baths. MLS# 1017948.

www.coldwellbankerhomes.com

Yup……course is coming back nice, watered and mowing daily.

 

[fishing fool]

I see have seen some lots that are priced right if not lower then normal. Would it be good to pick up one and have a house built there now?

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

I see have seen some lots that are priced right if not lower then normal. Would it be good to pick up one and have a house built there now?

Some of the non course or view lots are priced pretty well, some are waaay up there, one isn’t for sale but the owner has refused one million for it. I think it’s the best view of the lake lot left in Havasu.

 

[satellitemike]

Word on the street is the Refuge POA has purchased the 1.9 mil note for the golf course.

 

[dspracing]

Word on the street is the Refuge POA has purchased the 1.9 mil note for the golf course.

I don’t really understand all of this but best I could tell is that this is a bit of a long shot? If the owners are able to secure a buyer, POA owning the note is essentially irrelevant, right? It’s more of a last ditch effort to get a deal on the assets should it come to that?

If a sale to private party occur, will the incurred watering and maintenance costs be recovered?

 

[satellitemike]

I don’t really understand all of this but best I could tell is that this is a bit of a long shot? If the owners are able to secure a buyer, POA owning the note is essentially irrelevant, right? It’s more of a last ditch effort to get a deal on the assets should it come to that?

If a sale to private party occur, will the incurred watering and maintenance costs be recovered?

Lot of questions to be answered, hope to get most of them this Thursday evening!!!

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Email came out today explaining alot.

 

[Cobalt232]

Email came out today explaining alot.

Any update?

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Any update?

HOA assumed the loan on the property, interest only for 3 years. Price has been lowered to 3.8 million and there are several buyers looking at it. HOA is one of them, if its not the HOA that gets the property then they would get paid back by the buyer since they hold the loan now. HOA is paying the $8000 a month in water and hired back some additional staff to get the course back in order. No mention if they are going to open it or not, likely not, rather the water and the employees were brought back to protect the investment. All the greens and tee boxes are back to green now. Have another zoom call on Friday to fill in some blanks. All in all its going well.

 

[Turnup]

Someone is under contract doing their due diligence, not sure if there would be several at the same time

 

[Ace in the Hole]

HOA assumed the loan on the property, interest only for 3 years. Price has been lowered to 3.8 million and there are several buyers looking at it. HOA is one of them, if its not the HOA that gets the property then they would get paid back by the buyer since they hold the loan now. HOA is paying the $8000 a month in water and hired back some additional staff to get the course back in order. No mention if they are going to open it or not, likely not, rather the water and the employees were brought back to protect the investment. All the greens and tee boxes are back to green now. Have another zoom call on Friday to fill in some blanks. All in all its going well.

Saw something on the newspaper email this morning that there was a buyer? any update?

 

[dspracing]

The paper had indicated that the buyer was a developer out of CA. From what I could gather from the meetings, this was the POAs biggest fear.

 

[Boatymcboatface]

Better hope it’s not the same guy I’ve referenced in this thread.

 

[satellitemike]

This was in yesterday's local paper

 

[Singleton]

This was in yesterday's local paper

Who ever wrote that article needs to do some research.
You legally can’t refer to the course as a signature AP designed course. They lost that ability when they modified the course without AP approval.

 

[MooreMoney]

Who ever wrote that article needs to do some research.
You legally can’t refer to the course as a signature AP designed course. They lost that ability when they modified the course without AP approval.

This is a havasu paper. What do you expect

 

[Singleton]

This is a havasu paper. What do you expect

Guess they are following the federal government “lower your expectation” mantra

 

[MooreMoney]

Guess they are following the federal government “lower your expectation” mantra

If you follow federal gov then you have no rules. Lie to peoples faces until they believe it.

 

[Eyota - Waya]

Just learned the current owners have decided to close the Refuge. And that includes the golf course. The restaurant was closed a couple of weeks ago. Figured the golf course would be next. And now it is.

Great pictures of the Refuge Golf Course, thank you for sharing. I heard a rumor the course is being sold to a man from Big Bear Lake. He hase done some amazing things for that town, Big Bear Lake Brewing Company, The Boneyard BBQ, The Cave, as well Lodging . Hopfully the magic will ruboff for Havasu. Eyota - Waya shall rise again

 

[satellitemike]

Great pictures of the Refuge Golf Course, thank you for sharing. I heard a rumor the course is being sold to a man from Big Bear Lake. He hase done some amazing things for that town, Big Bear Lake Brewing Company, The Boneyard BBQ, The Cave, as well Lodging . Hopfully the magic will ruboff for Havasu. Eyota - Waya shall rise again

I as well as many others would like to hear more about the rumors?

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

I as well as many others would like to hear more about the rumors?

First buyer backed out after due diligence, second buyer now conducting their own DD. If it doesn’t sell then the homeowners buy it out of foreclosure. HOA already assumed the loan and is paying for the watering and basic maintenance until that time

 

[dspracing]

Fingers crossed for this potential buyer

 

[dspracing]

Some additional information regarding the buyer from Big Bear.

Havasu's The Refuge Golf & Country Club may sell to Big Bear Lake developer

The sale of The Refuge Country Club and Golf Course is set to close this month and new information has been released about the course’s potential buyer.

www.havasunews.com

 

[Taboma]

Some additional information regarding the buyer from Big Bear.

Havasu's The Refuge Golf & Country Club may sell to Big Bear Lake developer

The sale of The Refuge Country Club and Golf Course is set to close this month and new information has been released about the course’s potential buyer.

www.havasunews.com

FYI, if you're going to share an article from the Havasu Herald, and you subscribe, then you need to take a snap shot of it and post that. Otherwise, all we can read are a few lines before it disappears behind a pay wall that Outline.com can no longer circumvent.

 

[tostark]

Havasu's The Refuge Golf & Country Club may sell to Big Bear Lake developer​

Potential buyer cites experience in dealing with ‘distressed properties’​

• By Joey Postiglione
  Today's News-Herald
• Nov 13, 2021 Updated 2 hrs ago
• 0

The sale of The Refuge Country Club and Golf Course is expected to close this month.
Joey Postiglione/Today's News-Herald

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The sale of The Refuge Country Club and Golf Course is set to close this month and new information has been released about the course’s potential buyer.
David Stone is the developer out of California who is in the process of purchasing the Arnold Palmer Signature designed course and country club from Information Solutions. Stone is being represented by Lake Havasu City Realtor April Caley who says that Stone is no stranger to dealing with “distressed properties.”
“For nearly two decades Mr. Stone has helped transform Big Bear Lake into the resort it is today. He has added new lodging, restaurants and live entertainment venues just to name a few,” Caley said.


Caley says that some of the businesses Stone brought to Big Bear Lake include the Big Bear Lake Brewing Company, The Boneyard Bar and Grill, Rockin’ Burrito and the Cave, a concert venue.
According to Caley, when Stone was growing up he and his family would split their vacation time between Big Bear Lake and Lake Havasu City.
Caley says that some of Stone’s most cherished memories from childhood were made in Havasu.
“He has watched the town grow over the years and wants to help Havasu reach its full potential,” Caley said. “Stone told me ‘I was truly blessed with two very unique towns that provided for life long memories.’”

Stone isn’t revealing what his plans are for the course and club yet but Caley says that “Native American history and the beautiful landscape of Arizona” has always caught Stone’s eye and he hopes to pay homage to Native American culture within the club.

Earlier this year both the Refuge country club and golf course ceased operation abruptly. Since the facilities shut down there has been much speculation what would happen to the property,
The Refuge Property Owners Association had been in discussion to purchase the course and club but association president Francis Delach says that negotiations broke down in early August. However the POA still has a vested interest in the club and course since purchasing the mortgage for the property from Horizon Community bank.
Delach says that since the POA couldn’t purchase the property directly from Information Solutions they hope to receive it via bankruptcy.
The POA is having a special meeting on Nov. 20 to vote on rising dues for homeowners to pay for “operating expenses of the Association, including payment on monies borrowed to purchase the course.” The current plan would raise homeowner’s dues by $100 a month in 2022 and then in 2021 dues would be raised an additional $115.

Despite these moves by the POA not every Refuge homeowner is in favor of the association taking control of the golf course and country club.
“I am very hopeful for the prospect that the homeowners will not be involved in running/owning a golf course,” John Cash said. “We are also hopeful our dues will not be raised by $215 per month.”