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The Whipple Difference

ToMorrow44

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Great scientific comparison of a Roots Blower vs Whipple Blower. Proof of the horsepower you are leaving on the table when you buy a Roots blower.
Just watched that today myself. Great comparison, love the way he conducts experiments
 

franky

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Very comprehensive and interesting. Smart man. I wonder how this translates to a IC (gasoline) engine.....
 

BUSTI

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Very comprehensive and interesting. Smart man. I wonder how this translates to a IC (gasoline) engine.....
It doesn't matter if its a diesel, gasoline, alcohol or Nitro the more air density there is the more fuel you can add to make more power.
 

Waterjunky

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I would love to see the same breakdown on a good turbo setup. the parasitic loss on the crank from the blower is real, turbo doesn't have that but it does add resistance to the exhaust.
The low RPM throttle tip in on the SC would be noticeably better but overall the turbo could beat it all. I don't know........

Very interesting.........
 

Racey

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I would love to see the same breakdown on a good turbo setup. the parasitic loss on the crank from the blower is real, turbo doesn't have that but it does add resistance to the exhaust.
The low RPM throttle tip in on the SC would be noticeably better but overall the turbo could beat it all. I don't know........

Very interesting.........
The main issue trying to do that is you can't swap a blower for a turbo on the same engine configuration. You essentially have to build two completely different motors and could only make the cubic inches the common denominator.

That being said, overall efficiency is usually better on a turbo setup. Blown motors have greater combustion force, denser charging in the cylinders, which is immediately lost to drive the blower. Turbo motors have to run very mild cams otherwise if there was valve overlap the engine would enter a reverse flow scenario as the exhaust manifold pressure is higher than the intake manifold pressure.
 
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EBT531

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I would love to see the same breakdown on a good turbo setup. the parasitic loss on the crank from the blower is real, turbo doesn't have that but it does add resistance to the exhaust.
The low RPM throttle tip in on the SC would be noticeably better but overall the turbo could beat it all. I don't know........

Very interesting.........
He talks about SC vs turbo and said they did that comparison in a different experiment and the SC was better from a roll. But launching at a high rpm the turbo is better
 

RaceTec

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Huge differences! Turbo, Roots, Screw, and even PSI blowers have there place, with old school roots style blowers being the most outdated and inefficient... I am sure that Alexi @BoostPower has done a ton of testing, but one very recent test that I was involved with saw significant gains with a new whipple system. When you have to dial an engine back because it blows you away on the dyno it is amazing... A Whipple on alcohol is bitchen!
 

Blackmagic94

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Whipples are neat but not always needed. My botë the 6-71 was perfect for the needed power.
 

mesquito_creek

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So where is the place to go read/watch or research how to build a basic supercharged small block GM motor.. From a rebuild perspective? I.E. I have a GM 350 small block boat motor ready for a rebuild and would want to try to make it "Blower/Whipple Ready"? Also, when doing such a project, what makes it a marine build on the long block besides brass freeze plugs? I know all the accessories are marine and why like alt, starter etc...
 

RiverDave

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Huge differences! Turbo, Roots, Screw, and even PSI blowers have there place, with old school roots style blowers being the most outdated and inefficient... I am sure that Alexi @BoostPower has done a ton of testing, but one very recent test that I was involved with saw significant gains with a new whipple system. When you have to dial an engine back because it blows you away on the dyno it is amazing... A Whipple on alcohol is bitchen!
I understand that roots and whippel / eaton have different ways of making boost compared to a roots, but how is a psi different?
 

RiverDave

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So where is the place to go read/watch or research how to build a basic supercharged small block GM motor.. From a rebuild perspective? I.E. I have a GM 350 small block boat motor ready for a rebuild and would want to try to make it "Blower/Whipple Ready"? Also, when doing such a project, what makes it a marine build on the long block besides brass freeze plugs? I know all the accessories are marine and why like alt, starter etc...
I am by no means an engine builder so take this for what it is.. Because marine engines are under a constant load they generate a lot more heat than automotive applications. You will need to run inconel valves, the clearances in the motor are setup loser, and depending on the application you may have to spec the cams to prevent reversion.
 

BoostPower

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Huge differences! Turbo, Roots, Screw, and even PSI blowers have there place, with old school roots style blowers being the most outdated and inefficient... I am sure that Alexi @BoostPower has done a ton of testing, but one very recent test that I was involved with saw significant gains with a new whipple system. When you have to dial an engine back because it blows you away on the dyno it is amazing... A Whipple on alcohol is bitchen!
We have all the data on all common products. Each have characteristics let me know what info y’all need. I did not read the entire thread yet


Sent from my Efi Beacon!
 

RaceTec

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I understand that roots and whippel / eaton have different ways of making boost compared to a roots, but how is a psi different?
The video does a great job of explaining it, basically the difference is in efficiency. The amount of horsepower that it takes to produce a specific volume of air at a given temperature... The PSI is just part of the picture, you can produce a given PSI with anyone of the power adders, it is how much power it takes to produce that PSI and the air density at that given PSI.
 

mesquito_creek

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I am by no means an engine builder so take this for what it is.. Because marine engines are under a constant load they generate a lot more heat than automotive applications. You will need to run inconel valves, the clearances in the motor are setup loser, and depending on the application you may have to spec the cams to prevent reversion.
So I have the factory service manual that contains all of the specs for bearing clearances, break down inspections and rebuild parameters. Although it is over 30 years old on a 30 year old motor, if I rebuild with aftermarket parts that all measure and meet the specs from the service manual... do I have a marine motor?
 

RaceTec

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So I have the factory service manual that contains all of the specs for bearing clearances, break down inspections and rebuild parameters. Although it is over 30 years old on a 30 year old motor, if I rebuild with aftermarket parts that all measure and meet the specs from the service manual... do I have a marine motor?
No, almost all clearances will be based on the components you use for the new rebuild. If you were to use all old new stock of the exact same components you might be able to get away with it. The parts used today are VERY different than the parts used in a stock rebuild 30 years ago! Even simple stuff like the cylinder hone on the block are significantly better now...
 

mesquito_creek

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No, almost all clearances will be based on the components you use for the new rebuild. If you were to use all old new stock of the exact same components you might be able to get away with it. The parts used today are VERY different than the parts used in a stock rebuild 30 years ago! Even simple stuff like the cylinder hone on the block are significantly better now...
So if I put an aftermarket piston in it for example... then I just follow the spec that comes with the new piston? Is there such a thing as a "marine" oil pump or can I just use a high quality aftermarket oil pump?

Half the motor is already aftermarket. New aftermarket marine carb. Edlebrock E series aluminum heads.... aftermarket marine disributor... edlebrock intake...

It ran fine for years with all that bolt on stuff... so now I am really only talking about the lower rotating assembly.....
 

DaveH

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seems like more and more stuff nowadays from the OEM's.......are TURBO's.

I wonder why?
 

Flying_Lavey

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seems like more and more stuff nowadays from the OEM's.......are TURBO's.

I wonder why?
Also helps to be able to manipulate the boost characteristics without making much if a difference to the parasitic loss (using variable vane geometry, etc...

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
 

Mcchevy69ss

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I understand that roots and whippel / eaton have different ways of making boost compared to a roots, but how is a psi different?
Boost doesn’t guarantee you horsepower, it’s really about air density. 10 lbs of boost that is 400* doesn’t make you as much power as 8lbs of boost at 200*. Essentially it’s about how many oxygen molecules you can get to the cylinder, and the hotter (less dense)the air is the less you can fit into the cylinder.
 

farmo83

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Not to completley stir the pot but is there a reason pro chargers get minimal love(ie not that many of them are around) in the marine world ? I know they are supposed to be the best of both but are they actually the worst ?
 

Blackmagic94

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Boost doesn’t guarantee you horsepower, it’s really about air density. 10 lbs of boost that is 400* doesn’t make you as much power as 8lbs of boost at 200*. Essentially it’s about how many oxygen molecules you can get to the cylinder, and the hotter (less dense)the air is the less you can fit into the cylinder.

Well that and you can’t run the same octane or timing with hot ass air.

that is what intercoolers and good gas does. E85 is a god send on draw through or even blow through setups.

Turbos are the superior power adder outside of HEMI nitro methane powered 16-71 setups.
 

zx14

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Not to completley stir the pot but is there a reason pro chargers get minimal love(ie not that many of them are around) in the marine world ? I know they are supposed to be the best of both but are they actually the worst ?
I ran a pro charger for 8 years on my 540, at 10lbs. They are actually the best bolt on blower for a stockish drive. My Daytona ran into the low 120’s with it. The intake charge through there intercooler is very cool. They are so forgiving on drives, they have no bottom end, kinda like a turbo, my drive lasted through 2 kids learning to ski, myself wakboarding,”I was shitty at getting up”, .
One of my most expensive upgrades, was when I went to the quadrotor, 12lbs of boost as soon as you crack the throttle, that’s all well and good, if everything else can handle it. On my new motor and new drive, they are turned down to 8lbs. Only 900 hp. But it was tested and runs very strong at 12 lbs. and could go more, (with good fuel)But speed is just a matter of money, How fast can you afford to go. They sound really cool too,,,lol.
 

mesquito_creek

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Is there anything special that needs to be done to the short block in preparation for a blower/whipple? Can you add mild boost (6 ish) to a stock 350 with hydrolic lifters/mild rv cam and stock shortblock? Or is there a checklist of things that always should be addressed? I.e minimum can profile. Minimum compression. Specific piston profile etc... where is the place to read up and research this or do you have to just spend time all over the internet trying to piece it together? Also can you apply all the street rod knowledge directly to marine?

so if I read up and learned all about my first blower build from the “ budget blower build “ instruction guide from hot rod this and that magazine what changes do your apply to then marine engine? Or do you just go for it and live and learn what breaks first and work through it.

i have pulled motors from boats many times... I have even slapped new lower engine components into small block pre runners and run them with no machining on a prayer just wanting to get 10 hours out of them.
So I am crazy enough to experiment on my dime without build the ultimate 3000 hour engine... 100 hours going really fast might last me 3-4 summers in a boat I only use once a year!
 

Runs2rch

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seems like more and more stuff nowadays from the OEM's.......are TURBO's.

I wonder why?
The Eaton TVS blowers are great OEM setups also. Hybrid between a roots and twin screw. Super reliable, make killer power, and low parasitic loss.
 

scottchbrite

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I’m interested. Details?
Can you post some more pictures your sweet ass boat please??
It’s a 1994 21’ Daytona with a 468 Chevrolet (Dart block/Brodix head), B1 pump with all his stuff, low profile intake, CSU blow thru carb on E85, MSD digital 7530 ignition. New gel, capped front/back and new interior from Martinez.

It’s gonna be up for sale shortly.......I have another hot rod in the works and my wife won’t let me have both. And the new boat might get a Whipple.
14C50575-C9A2-4406-8B4C-6BCB3147975A.jpeg
92D9840F-E944-4F5B-9753-CD170C860589.jpeg
10E4CA21-16B6-4EE9-92FA-D9F4F227B7F0.jpeg
 

Blackmagic94

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It’s a 1994 21’ Daytona with a 468 Chevrolet (Dart block/Brodix head), B1 pump with all his stuff, low profile intake, CSU blow thru carb on E85, MSD digital 7530 ignition. New gel, capped front/back and new interior from Martinez.

It’s gonna be up for sale shortly.......I have another hot rod in the works and my wife won’t let me have both. And the new boat might get a Whipple.
View attachment 808117 View attachment 808118 View attachment 808119

More detailed engine pics please.
How fast does it run and what rpm does it turn the jet?
 

AZLineman

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I def agree with the screw blower efficiency. When I worked with Norm Drazy during my switch from a roots to the PSI, I gained a ton of HP just thru volumeric efficiency and charge density. I do agree tho that a roots works for most and is relitively inexpensive.
 

AZLineman

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It’s a 1994 21’ Daytona with a 468 Chevrolet (Dart block/Brodix head), B1 pump with all his stuff, low profile intake, CSU blow thru carb on E85, MSD digital 7530 ignition. New gel, capped front/back and new interior from Martinez.

It’s gonna be up for sale shortly.......I have another hot rod in the works and my wife won’t let me have both. And the new boat might get a Whipple.
View attachment 808117 View attachment 808118 View attachment 808119
Luv the white Daytona!
 

floatn turd

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It’s a 1994 21’ Daytona with a 468 Chevrolet (Dart block/Brodix head), B1 pump with all his stuff, low profile intake, CSU blow thru carb on E85, MSD digital 7530 ignition. New gel, capped front/back and new interior from Martinez.

It’s gonna be up for sale shortly.......I have another hot rod in the works and my wife won’t let me have both. And the new boat might get a Whipple.
View attachment 808117 View attachment 808118 View attachment 808119

BAD ASS!!!
Thank you my good man.
That is one cool boat.
 

scottchbrite

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More detailed engine pics please.
How fast does it run and what rpm does it turn the jet?
I have to look on computer to see if I have more pics. Im guessing low 90’s as it is now, around 12 psi and spins in the neighborhood of 6400-6500. I’ve never had a gps to check accurately. There’s a bunch of wastegate left and more in the setup to go a lot faster. I just haven’t had time to spend on it due to building a house, family, and lack of time. I’m admittedly, not a pump tuner either!
 

BoostPower

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The video does a great job of explaining it, basically the difference is in efficiency. The amount of horsepower that it takes to produce a specific volume of air at a given temperature... The PSI is just part of the picture, you can produce a given PSI with anyone of the power adders, it is how much power it takes to produce that PSI and the air density at that given PSI.
Although I have not read all
Of the posts. Psi, Volume, density and Temperature immediate vs long term and the ability to replenish the rush of all that into the motor is everything. Like I always talk smack about how folks Dyno and an engine makes x for 3-4 seconds but if you actually hold it down for even one full minute you can see the difference between all types of chargers. The heat soak, heat in general and the ability to run higher timing just goes away if not efficient. Heck, look at the zo6 vet. We owned one for research. Lap 1 was fast, lap 2 the car slowed down, lap 3 a terd. If you google it, all stated that the car was designed to protect itself from heat soaking / warranty. So again time vs the ability to efficiently compress and manage boost along with being able to manage timing is a big player. And if your engine is efficient it will pass a huge volume through it which requires a bigger form of compressor or more small ones. Although not mainstream a compound uses the blowers for the abrupt mass of air going through a intercooler then tapers down and the turbos feed the blower to in a sense double or triple its ability. But slowing the blowers and again managing the temp of compressed air vs timing achieved. It is a bit of trickery to get right but you kinda get the best of both if properly done even though not practical for most. Now, go out today since it’s but cold and feel the air temp / density free power. Soon we will finish our plexiglass blower Dyno and show you cool illustrations of this. Thanks


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