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SBMech

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From CA cops. Someone walking in my unlocked door is not “breaking and entering” are they? They aren’t burglarizing me at that point.
I live in CA, I can’t kill or even beat up a “trespasser” that is not a threat.

They are not trespassing by entering your home uninvited?
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Do they have lawful reason to be there? Are they suffering a medical emergency, lost seeking help, etc.

Here is the problem with many of these discussions. The original premise was someone "breaking into" a vehicle that was unlocked. Well, if you want to start splitting hairs they didn't break in to it at all, they simply opened the door. If they had no legal reason to do what they did, that was/is a crime. Then the residential issues come up, now we are talking about "what ifs?". We can go round and round all day and the answers will surely change, but if you don't understand the basic difference between a dwelling, detached garage, vehicle, you are going to run into a ton of confusion which results in bad info being put out just like in this thread.

If you are truly concerned with a Burglary, you should start by looking up the definition. In cali, it is 459 P.C. When you find the part about the residence having to be locked let me know. I will not be holding my breath because I actually like staying alive.

Lets try and make this simple. If I woke up to someone in my house in the middle of the night that was not invited, had no obvious medical issues, and did not appear to me that they were there for any reason other than to unlawfully enter my occupied home, I am going to assume they are there for nefarious reasons and act appropriately. If I feel they are a threat to my life or my family's life, that scenario will be over very quickly and I wouldn't think twice about using deadly force, locked door or not.

That is not to say deadly force is the only option available, and I'm not afraid to articulate my actions. I happen to have a bit of experience in doing so which can't be said for the majority of society. That is the reason I will continue to advise you or any body to call 911 and let the cops handle it, UNLESS you, your family, or some other victim's life is in danger at the very moment. Then you do what you have to do.

I agree with everything there. I was the one that brought up a person in the home, so I changed the conversation a bit.

I have been told multiple times by multiple cops that there is a difference in having the house locked and unlocked... basically that someone in your house is not necessarily burglarizing you. It is certainly some level of crime, and your response has to be somewhat in accordance... a dude sitting on your couch is not the same as a dude that kicked the door in and threatened to kill you. If that is true or not I have no idea but I wager that it is. Different cops seem to have different interpretations of laws based on their experience.


To you point, the guy didn’t break into the unlocked car. Lock your shit up based on AB109, prop 47 and 57, because if it is unlocked you can bet nothing will ever happen.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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You are wrong on so many levels it's almost comical. California has a castle law. It's legal to shoot and kill an intruder in your home because the mere fact that he's there is a threat. Look it up.

Go do that and see how that turns out in civil court for you.

You can’t shoot and kill an uninvited dude that came in an unlocked door standing in your house doing nothing threatening. You’d go to jail. There is no standing in the CA “castle doctrine” that allows that.

Reading comprehension... it is a thing dribble. Go read the CA law. The person has to force their way in and be a threat.
 
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Dirty Daytona

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Without theft, all I guess there can is trespassing, but without “no trespassing” signs posted and according to the officers...without having them refused to leave after you asked them, there is no crime.


There was an incident that I read about (and the officers told me about) not long ago where a guy caught 3 people going through his unlocked car in a public parking lot and the officers were able to catch the guys in the act, but without having stolen anything and since the vehicle was unlocked...after checking for warrants, had to let the guys go without any sort of citation.

It’s mind boggling.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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They are not trespassing by entering your home uninvited?

That’s my point. Is trespassing a felony? It certainly is not a violent type of crime like burglary/ breaking an entering. I can’t respond to a trespasser as such can I?
 

SBMech

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That’s my point. Is trespassing a felony? It certainly is not a violent type of crime. I can’t respond to a trespasser as such can I?

I have been lead to understand that in CA, if they are not violent there is nothing I can do to defend myself from invasion of privacy.

We both know someone would be dead, because then there is only one story, mine.

It's a fucking sad state of affairs here in Komifornistan.
 

t&y

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In an attempt to keep this from going off down into the crazy rabbit hole of criminal law.... Anytime you use deadly force, it is in reaction to a threat against your life, your family's life, another victims life, and in many cases the simple threat of serious bodily injury can lead up to legally using deadly force. Castle doctrine does apply, but is not a cart blanche thumbs up to use deadly force. You still have to be able to articulate/explain your actions.

It makes no difference if you are legally justified in your actions, anytime you use deadly force you will investigated criminally, and sued civilly. Only exception to that I can think of is if the person who was the subject of the force used was literally the only person in their family and there was nobody left to sue. Criminal investigation will still occur.

I'll say it again, unless you are under direct threat, call the cops.
 

SBMech

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In an attempt to keep this from going off down into the crazy rabbit hole of criminal law.... Anytime you use deadly force, it is in reaction to a threat against your life, your family's life, another victims life, and in many cases the simple threat of serious bodily injury can lead up to legally using deadly force. Castle doctrine does apply, but is not a cart blanche thumbs up to use deadly force. You still have to be able to articulate/explain your actions.

It makes no difference if you are legally justified in your actions, anytime you use deadly force you will investigated criminally, and sued civilly. Only exception to that I can think of is if the person who was the subject of the force used was literally the only person in their family and there was nobody left to sue. Criminal investigation will still occur.

I'll say it again, unless you are under direct threat, call the cops.

I like everything about you man, but waiting 10 minutes to have a LEO show up to some stranger in my home is not really going to work out....:mad:

I appreciate your input however.
 
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t&y

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I like everything about you man, but waiting 10 minutes to have a LEO show up to some stranger in my home is not really going to work out....:mad:

I appreciate your input however.

If it makes you feel any better, the area I work, our average response lights and sirens is at about 4 minutes. That being said, I'm not sure you would want to live there 😅
 

DrunkenSailor

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Bet that backpack is part of this guys normal outfit. Maybe take a cruise around one night around the same time the truck got broken into.
 

Dirty Daytona

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In response to the police not taking a report for someone going into your unlocked car......I’ve been a cop in so cal for 27 years so I’m going to give you a
Question about how things were prior to Prop 47 and all the other bullshit that was passed in CA to decriminalize a lot of acts...

I walked out to my truck this morning to find the contents of the glove box and center console thrown everywhere...and both front doors were ajar. I checked my cameras and have pretty decent footage of the assholes. Now, nothing was stolen because the only thing of value in the truck was pair of $200 sunglasses...which are still there. Local PD came out but couldn't take a report because A, nothing was stolen, B, nothing was damaged and C, since nothing was damaged, obviously the truck was unlocked...therefore, no crime was committed. Without a crime, there can be no charges...with no charges, evidence doesn't matter so they simply gave me an incident report card and left. I completely understand and agreed with them after they explained it to me. The had no interest in even watching the vids.

Before prop 47 and the rest of it, was there a manner in which to charge or at least pursue leads on stuff like this or has it been relatively untouchable for long before that?
I’ve been a cop in so cal for 27 years so I will give you a no bullshit realistic answer. First of all, it wasn’t that the local PD COULDN’T take a report, they DIDN’T take a report. If you didn’t have the video footage I would probably give you the “a report won’t help you” song and dance also. Since you had suspect information I would have taken a report for 10852 VC, tampering with a vehicle.

To establish the crime of 459 PC, burglary (vehicle) the vehicle must have been secured. For a house or commercial building it doesn’t matter if the building is locked.

Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not bashing the cops for not taking a report. I personally would have taken the 10852 VC report if the video showed enough to ID these dipshits. A quick report and a copy of the video in evidence would be very helpful if other cars in your area were burglarized or tampered with. Just my opinion.

To address the prop 47 subject, in my 27 years on the job there has always been thieves fucking with cars so I don’t think that has changed. Prop 47 is fucked up but in my opinion doper thieves have been doper thieves forever and probably always will be. Car burglars for the most part are opportunists and I don’t feel that any laws would change that.
 

t&y

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In response to the police not taking a report for someone going into your unlocked car......I’ve been a cop in so cal for 27 years so I’m going to give you a

I’ve been a cop in so cal for 27 years so I will give you a no bullshit realistic answer. First of all, it wasn’t that the local PD COULDN’T take a report, they DIDN’T take a report. If you didn’t have the video footage I would probably give you the “a report won’t help you” song and dance also. Since you had suspect information I would have taken a report for 10852 VC, tampering with a vehicle.

To establish the crime of 459 PC, burglary (vehicle) the vehicle must have been secured. For a house or commercial building it doesn’t matter if the building is locked.

Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not bashing the cops for not taking a report. I personally would have taken the 10852 VC report if the video showed enough to ID these dipshits. A quick report and a copy of the video in evidence would be very helpful if other cars in your area were burglarized or tampered with. Just my opinion.

To address the prop 47 subject, in my 27 years on the job there has always been thieves fucking with cars so I don’t think that has changed. Prop 47 is fucked up but in my opinion doper thieves have been doper thieves forever and probably always will be. Car burglars for the most part are opportunists and I don’t feel that any laws would change that.


Solid response. I like it.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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I have been lead to understand that in CA, if they are not violent there is nothing I can do to defend myself from invasion of privacy.

We both know someone would be dead, because then there is only one story, mine.

It's a fucking sad state of affairs here in Komifornistan.


Agreed.

But I’ve been told when you kill an unarmed, non violent intruder in your home just say “castle doctrine” to the cops, they will give you a high five, toss the body in the gutter, and leave, no questions asked!
 

tostark

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If the vehicle owner could not identify the specific misc. items taken...would this still stick? Just wondering
Thanks for chiming in...
You definitely needed to be able to identify the items
 

LargeOrangeFont

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In response to the police not taking a report for someone going into your unlocked car......I’ve been a cop in so cal for 27 years so I’m going to give you a

I’ve been a cop in so cal for 27 years so I will give you a no bullshit realistic answer. First of all, it wasn’t that the local PD COULDN’T take a report, they DIDN’T take a report. If you didn’t have the video footage I would probably give you the “a report won’t help you” song and dance also. Since you had suspect information I would have taken a report for 10852 VC, tampering with a vehicle.

To establish the crime of 459 PC, burglary (vehicle) the vehicle must have been secured. For a house or commercial building it doesn’t matter if the building is locked.

Don’t get me wrong here, I’m not bashing the cops for not taking a report. I personally would have taken the 10852 VC report if the video showed enough to ID these dipshits. A quick report and a copy of the video in evidence would be very helpful if other cars in your area were burglarized or tampered with. Just my opinion.

To address the prop 47 subject, in my 27 years on the job there has always been thieves fucking with cars so I don’t think that has changed. Prop 47 is fucked up but in my opinion doper thieves have been doper thieves forever and probably always will be. Car burglars for the most part are opportunists and I don’t feel that any laws would
change that.

Thanks for your response. Good info.
 

Backlash

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Lol... NO. As usual you have to weed through the info in here. Not hard to tell the informed from the slightly perturbed responses:cool:.

As I and others have said, YES, IT IS A CRIME REGARDLESS OF LOCKED OR NOT. There are a couple different ways to approach it and basically those cops simply did not take a report when they "could" have.

Residential info re locked or not is flat out wrong. Residential Burglary is a Felony, period, locked door or not. What confuses many people is when we (meaning cops) start talking about how a DA will charge the crime based on the different jurisdictions.

That being said, if you have an un occupied dwelling, think completely empty (void of furniture, clothing, appliances, etc...) and someone breaks in it will be a trespass/vandalism versus a residential burglary.

Unlawfully entering a dwelling when someone is home, whether the doors and windows are locked or open, is considered a "First Degree Burglary" in CA and carries a mandatory state prison term as a punishment. Like T&Y stated, some misinformation here in this thread.
 
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Backlash

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Agreed.

But I’ve been told when you kill an unarmed, non violent intruder in your home just say “castle doctrine” to the cops, they will give you a high five, toss the body in the gutter, and leave, no questions asked!

I dont think it works like that! LMAO!
 

SBMech

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Unlawfully entering a dwelling when someone is home, whether the doors and windows are locked or open, is considered a "First Degree Burglary" in CA and carries a mandatory state prison term as a punishment. Like T&Y stated, some misinformation here in this thread.

No confusion, just a lack of DA's who will prosecute invaders. A slap on the knuckles is not going to keep them from trying someone who cannot defend themselves.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Unlawfully entering a dwelling when someone is home, whether the doors and windows are locked or open, is considered a "First Degree Burglary" in CA and carries a mandatory state prison term as a punishment. Like T&Y stated, some misinformation here in this thread.

Don’t you have to prove an intent to take or steal to make the burglary charge stick?

Again, a dude in your house doing nothing is not necessarily charged with burglary?

I realize we are pretty far down the “if” trail now.
 

CobraDave

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If a homeless guy wonders in your house and is napping on your couch, that’s more of a trespass. If he is going through your shit that’s a burglary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Backlash

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A D.A. is not going to ignore a case where a subject unlawfully enters an occupied dwelling. Now they may consider reducing the sentence in hopes of getting a plea deal prior to prelim or prior to a trial, but they are not going to ignore the case and drop it in the shredder.
 

Backlash

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Yes but you do have to meet all of the elements of the crime in order for the charge to stick.
 

EarpRider

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We would use 10852 of the Vehicle Code which is "Vehicle Tampering" for incidents like this (vehicle unlocked and misc items taken) and the City Prosecutor would file it as a misdemeanor. I am 3 years retired and not sure how they would handle it now.
Prosecutor in Long Beach wouldn't file that in a million years. They dont have time for these 1 day time served crimes. LBPD front desk gets at least 30 - 40 calls a day for this exact crime.
 

FishSniper

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All these what if situations in this thread getting ridiculous. LEO wants to take the dipshits to jail period however the morons putting the laws into place now have handcuffed them from doing their jobs. Homeless now have more rights then homeowners and the law making morons in CA make it impossible for LEO to do their jobs as they should be able to.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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If a homeless guy wonders in your house and is napping on your couch, that’s more of a trespass. If he is going through your shit that’s a burglary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This.
 

LowRiver2

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In an attempt to keep this from going off down into the crazy rabbit hole of criminal law.... Anytime you use deadly force, it is in reaction to a threat against your life, your family's life, another victims life, and in many cases the simple threat of serious bodily injury can lead up to legally using deadly force. Castle doctrine does apply, but is not a cart blanche thumbs up to use deadly force. You still have to be able to articulate/explain your actions.

It makes no difference if you are legally justified in your actions, anytime you use deadly force you will investigated criminally, and sued civilly. Only exception to that I can think of is if the person who was the subject of the force used was literally the only person in their family and there was nobody left to sue. Criminal investigation will still occur.

I'll say it again, unless you are under direct threat, call the cops.
100%
My doors can be unlocked, anyone comes down my hallway after 9pm will be hitting a tripwire , if they can still walk past that, they are a threat and will be dealt with.
My hazard placards are out front, enter at your own risk
Problem solved

next
 

yz450mm

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If I'm at my house alone, and find some dude sleeping on my couch, he will have a decent chance of leaving on his own two feet, if he doesn't do anything stupid.

If my daughter is sleeping on her futon at the foot of my bed, that guy had better be really fucking careful what he does, or he will definitely not leave under his own power. At that point, it doesn't matter at all whether the front door or back slider was locked or not.

My buddy's brother is an LAPD detective, and he told me that everybody who has a fireplace should have a three-piece fireplace tool set. That sharp poker with the hook on the side is absolutely a deadly weapon, and if somebody was in your house that shouldn't be there, then maybe they were using that to threaten your life....

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C-2

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I think the underlying problem is simply a lack or resources.

Despite a growing population, we seem fixated on decreasing the size of our local government.

Doesn't make sense and it exists everywhere - from beat cops and criminal cases, to civil, DV, and divorce cases, everything is log jammed due to the volume of cases/filings. A DA told us last week that in LA County in 2019 there was 197K felony arrests, but only about 97K felony filings.

I will readily pay for more jails, cops and prosecutors.

And oh yeah, for all those interested in what the "elements" are to prove a crime was committed, refer to your local criminal jury instructions https://www.courts.ca.gov/partners/documents/calcrim.pdf
 

ka0tyk

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Same shit. I must’ve left a door unlocked because I came out one morning before Christmas and my backpack with work laptop was gone. I needed a police report for my work to show their property was stolen. Police dept wouldn’t come out because there was “no crime committed.”
 

CarolynandBob

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This is why you have a big ass dog and let him/her handle it.
 

Danger Dave

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After reviewing the video...sure seems like he had something in his hand @ about 3:40 (paperwork?) that he didn't have at the beginning when he walked up...which means something was taken


This is from a WYZE cam BTW...I'm fairly impressed for $20.

Looks like there were two guys involved, did he try the front door of the house first in the beginning?
 

lbhsbz

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Looks like there were two guys involved, did he try the front door of the house first in the beginning?

One guy appears to have just stayed in the street. The guy that got in my truck checked the neighbor’s cars first, then stepped over the short fence between our driveways and got into my truck. Neither (that can see) came to my front door.
 

lbhsbz

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Same shit. I must’ve left a door unlocked because I came out one morning before Christmas and my backpack with work laptop was gone. I needed a police report for my work to show their property was stolen. Police dept wouldn’t come out because there was “no crime committed.”

Stealing a laptop is not a crime?
 

Jed-O

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Damn, I'm glad I live in the mountains. We don't call the cops round here.
 

lbhsbz

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Can I watch?

Certainly, it will be boring though....just working with neighbors and gathering more camera footage to try and connect these guys to a whole bunch of stuff...I figure if we can prove that they had a hand in 50 thefts from unlocked cars, that would hold considerably more water than 1 incident here or there, and since the cops didn't want to even see the video, I know that they won't be able to connect anything.
 

Havasu Surfer

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Sounds like it's time for a vigilante night patrol. What area are you in?
 

brownsuger

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All due respect..... But who pays $200 for sunglasses?

I get mine at the gas station for like $4.99 :cool:

Sorry that happened to you, thankfully it wasn't worse
 

lbhsbz

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All due respect..... But who pays $200 for sunglasses?

I get mine at the gas station for like $4.99 :cool:

Sorry that happened to you, thankfully it wasn't worse

I didn't pay $200 for 'em...but someone did. I found them on the bottom of the river....without a single scratch on the lenses.
 

FishSniper

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Certainly, it will be boring though....just working with neighbors and gathering more camera footage to try and connect these guys to a whole bunch of stuff...I figure if we can prove that they had a hand in 50 thefts from unlocked cars, that would hold considerably more water than 1 incident here or there, and since the cops didn't want to even see the video, I know that they won't be able to connect anything.
Unfortunately with this liberal system even multiple instances of these guys committing petty theft is not likely to result in anything. As irritating as it is spending a bunch of time on this is just gonna be a waste of time in this state.
 

LowRiver2

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How many languages are on the signs?

Here’s the deal:
I Live on an acre, you have to scale a 7’ wrought iron fence or gate then cover 100 yards to get to my home exterior,
All on camera
I own anyone doing that on reasonable suspicion and trespass already guilty.
Flash bangs stuns 60% of Cops and 95% of civilians. Pretty sure Cops aren’t coming in my house. 12 gauge slug after that if needed.

Let’s remember the Fireman in YL who had the party kid high on who knows what trying to break in his sliding glass door. After repeated warnings , the idiot broke door and was dumped by the Fireman. 0 charges

I don’t leave my door unlocked every night but rest assured, Someone comes in your house uninvited locked or not, use your reasonableness but the odds are highly stacked in your favor for no charges or civil lawsuits
No time to read the abstract lawsuit cases.
I’m a little tactical in planning things as explosives don’t forgive
I damn well know what I can and can’t do to defend myself.
And should the idiot try and cut my video feed, the street connection is covered by my neighbors camera on the spot 24/7.
Nice to have good neighbors .
 
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LazyLavey

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It’s a very grey area and somewhat of a loophole in the law. There is a section for vehicle tampering but there’s specific Elements that have to be met and most DA’s and defense attorneys feel it needs to meet the criteria of breaking something on the car while tampering. Also, the jury instructions and penalties basically aren’t worth a DA’s time to file charges because in this day and age it would just be differed to probation because of prop 47 AB-109 and prop57.

Exactly... However, They should have taken a report to document the incident, tampering with a vehicle....

But that would create a crime stat for the area and possibly effect the desirability of the neighborhood ... :(

Plus they were probably late for code 7...
 

Echo Lodge

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I didn't pay $200 for 'em...but someone did. I found them on the bottom of the river....without a single scratch on the lenses.

River God Giveth.... Always nervous after finding something on or in the river. BTW, WYZE should be releasing their outdoor version of their camera soon. Been running their indoor cams since they came out. Many outdoors and they all are still working. Best bang for the security cam buck.
 

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Lol... NO. As usual you have to weed through the info in here. Not hard to tell the informed from the slightly perturbed responses:cool:.

As I and others have said, YES, IT IS A CRIME REGARDLESS OF LOCKED OR NOT. There are a couple different ways to approach it and basically those cops simply did not take a report when they "could" have.

Residential info re locked or not is flat out wrong. Residential Burglary is a Felony, period, locked door or not. What confuses many people is when we (meaning cops) start talking about how a DA will charge the crime based on the different jurisdictions.

That being said, if you have an un occupied dwelling, think completely empty (void of furniture, clothing, appliances, etc...) and someone breaks in it will be a trespass/vandalism versus a residential burglary.
Thank you! It only took 42 replies to get to some factual info.
 
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Deja_Vu

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Well at least they didn’t punch the lock or pry open the window.

Sucks to have someone violate your property like that. I won’t leave vehicles out overnight anymore.
 

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California went down the drain years ago. Just wait until the bail reform hits just like NY and the revolving doors of shitbags just go in and then out.
 

probablecause

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You are wrong on so many levels it's almost comical. California has a castle law. It's legal to shoot and kill an intruder in your home because the mere fact that he's there is a threat. Look it up.
Not quite. You have to have... “reasonable fear of imminent peril or great bodily injury” (PC 198.5) but then again, easily explainable by criminal actions that you see on TV all day long. Know what I mean?
 

Popeye0708

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I can’t believe I’m using my first true community post on this thread but here we go cause I was going nuts the entire time. hey LEOs... regardless if the 488 it’s a 647(h) prowling violation! Not a 10852!

I feel better now. Now I can go back to lurking in the shadows.
 
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