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Traffic court lesson

USMC2010

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Dumb question..

Why wouldn’t you run on the sidewalk and reduce the risk of being run over by someone texting?
The only sidewalk that exists from my house to 95 south is the quarter mile section there and maybe a small section in front of the church on the south side. I would have to drive down and check that spot. 1400+ miles with no problems Dave, it never crossed my mind and if i knew it was a law I would have followed it.
 

PlanB

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Dumb question..

Why wouldn’t you run on the sidewalk and reduce the risk of being run over by someone texting?
It's common for runners to run on the asphalt next to the sidewalk to avoid injuries. Concrete is harder on the body over distances than asphalt. I see it all the time down at the beach here in San Diego.
 

Hullbilly

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I'm letting it go and it cost me about as much as I figured, needed to get past court today to make that transition though. I did want to share my experience once it was complete.
I would not let it go, if he flat out lied and you can prove it, don’t let him get away with that crap. Once it’s founded that he has an integrity issue he can not fully perform his sworn duties testifying in court.

If he truly is a lying sleaze put the screws to him, do yourself and the next guy a favor.

It might even be worth talking to an attorney, to see if he’s already on a list.
 

lebel409

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Go to the high school and run on the track, buy some special shoes, I don't care, but stay out of the street.

I was driving in a residential area near a park and came across two older folks, old lady had a dead fox around her neck and the gent had had his nicest velour coat on...walking in the middle street. I pulled past them, parked and asked why they were walking in the middle of the street...they said to try something different! We have walkers, joggers, wheelchairs, skateboarders...shit, I have more room to drive on the sidewalk.
 

USMC2010

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Go to the high school and run on the track, buy some special shoes, I don't care, but stay out of the street.

I was driving in a residential area near a park and came across two older folks, old lady had a dead fox around her neck and the gent had had his nicest velour coat on...walking in the middle street. I pulled past them, parked and asked why they were walking in the middle of the street...they said to try something different! We have walkers, joggers, wheelchairs, skateboarders...shit, I have more room to drive on the sidewalk.
We paid millions for the HS football stadium and track update and can't use it :(. I've done some track work at the Havasu ASU campus, running circles gets really boring, really quick.
 

Backlash

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I guess motorists can now drive on the sidewalk in LHC. :D
 

USMC2010

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I guess motorists can now drive on the sidewalk in LHC. :D
One would think that but the first lady up crashed her car on a sidewalk after swerving to miss an animal in the street. The cop said he could not find any tire marks consistent with her change of direction so she lost, it was well over $200 for her. I considered staying for a few more cases but I saw enough to recognize a scam when I see one.
 

SnoC653

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Section A was the violation.
28-796. Pedestrian on roadways

A. If sidewalks are provided, a pedestrian shall not walk along and on an adjacent roadway.

B. If sidewalks are not provided, a pedestrian walking along and on a highway shall walk when practicable only on the left side of the roadway or its shoulder facing traffic that may approach from the opposite direction.

C. A person shall not stand in a roadway for the purpose of soliciting a ride from the driver of a vehicle.

From what I'm reading you were not guilty from the word go. The law is clearly written to exclude runners as it mentions only walking and standing. Running is very different from either of the two mentioned activities.
 

DaveC

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Exactly. Laws are specific for a reason

If they wanted to exclude running or biking for example the statute would say something different

From what I'm reading you were not guilty from the word go. The law is clearly written to exclude runners as it mentions only walking and standing. Running is very different from either of the two mentioned activities.
So OP was innocent. That doesn’t happen on RDP. What’s the word coming to?
 

Ballyhoo

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Yup, and detained. He was yelling at me as soon as he got off his motorcycle, backup even showed up in an SUV in case they scored some big bust.
I think I know which LHCPD cop you are talking about. He needs to sharpen up on his communication skills and his use of discretion.
 

Ballyhoo

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What he made up was pointed out in the picture. He said I was running in the middle of the lane causing traffic to slow, stop and merge away from me. That is straight up bullshit. I even directly questioned him if he thought someone close enough to the curb for an elbow overhang was in the middle of the lane. He didn't have a good response to it. I considered requesting the video prior but I was down right nasty to both of them by the time it was done and I don't think the judge would have liked that even though he started it. I have a friend telling me to appeal and request just the video evidence refuting his statement. My problem is the video will still show my guilt even though it could show it is a liar. I don't think I want to incur that cost considering I think enough of the department is corrupt and proving his lacking won't do anything.
Probably not worth it. According to that statute, it doesn't matter where you are on the roadway. If there is a sidewalk, you can't be in the roadway.
 

Ballyhoo

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From what I'm reading you were not guilty from the word go. The law is clearly written to exclude runners as it mentions only walking and standing. Running is very different from either of the two mentioned activities.
I don't think so. If runners were exempt the statute would clearly exempt them. If you are standing, walking, running, crawling you are a pedestrian. You also have to understand the intent of that statute. Its all about safety; if there is a sidewalk available, they don't want you in the lanes of traffic.

From the AZ code: Definition of a pedestrian:
41. " Pedestrian" means any person afoot. A person who uses an electric personal assistive mobility device or a manual or motorized wheelchair is considered a pedestrian unless the manual wheelchair qualifies as a bicycle. For the purposes of this paragraph, " motorized wheelchair" means a self-propelled wheelchair that is used by a person for mobility.
 
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boblins

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Met this officer when he stopped me for having my full face helmet visor open while idling across London Bridge on a 105 degree day and not wearing glasses to protect my eyes from the dangerous 5 mph wind. To say I was flabbergasted would be an understatement as few riders would even have had a helmet on.
 

USMC2010

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Met this officer when he stopped me for having my full face helmet visor open while idling across London Bridge on a 105 degree day and not wearing glasses to protect my eyes from the dangerous 5 mph wind. To say I was flabbergasted would be an understatement as few riders would even have had a helmet on.
I've been licenced since 83, completed the basic rider course once and the advanced 3x. That is week but I'm not surprised. The statute doesn't cover a visor position.
 

Dalton

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Sooo....you running on the road or sidewalk now?


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USMC2010

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Sooo....you running on the road or sidewalk now?


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I got sick right after this but when I start back up I'll run the sidewalk where it exists, edge of the road where it doesn't.
 

Shortdeck

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LHCPD is trying to justify the need for 10 more patrolmen, more new cars, and another pay increase. I’m not surprised that I’m reading about this over enforcement quite often.
Also everyone in the LHC court system got laid off recently and are being rehired separately from Mohave County Court.


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Rajobigguy

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You should never run, running increases your heart rate, your heart is only allotted so many beat for your life time. You are wearing your heart out prematurely. If you want to live longer , go take a nap.
 

SnoC653

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I don't think so. If runners were exempt the statute would clearly exempt them. If you are standing, walking, running, crawling you are a pedestrian. You also have to understand the intent of that statute. Its all about safety; if there is a sidewalk available, they don't want you in the lanes of traffic.

From the AZ code: Definition of a pedestrian:
41. " Pedestrian" means any person afoot. A person who uses an electric personal assistive mobility device or a manual or motorized wheelchair is considered a pedestrian unless the manual wheelchair qualifies as a bicycle. For the purposes of this paragraph, " motorized wheelchair" means a self-propelled wheelchair that is used by a person for mobility.

Since the only way to beat moron cops, like this Officer Plunkit, is to beat them in court; the definition of pedestrian was never in debate. The city code only limits pedestrians from standing or walking on the roadway when there is a sidewalk present. Unless the city or the state has a legal definition of walk that includes a speed limitation or counts running as a walk, I'll stand by the fact that the law doesn't apply. in legal terms, any pedestrian (runners included) are prohibited from the listed activities when there is a sidewalk present. The only listed activities are walking and standing. Clearly as evidenced by the photo of the officers running on the road training, this law does not apply to people running.
 

checkrd past

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Alot of cops have favorite violations that they wrote all the time.
All these. Cops are in court all the time with their buddy cops so it is second nature to them. We are nervous and money is dependant on the out come.
Best way to fight a ticket is plead not guilty at time of ticket and request hearing at the county seat. Takes them out of their environment and makes them travel to where the county seat is located.

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This is so true,my cop buddy just can't give enough lane change without turn signal tickets.
 

Nacimientobound

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Unfortunately, Arizona is becoming Commifornia. Rather than treat addicts, they go after those that can pay the fines. Dumbest citation ever. How about a conversation instead?

Sorry about that.
 

84miller

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Hey, was looking at the picture you provided and this question has nothing to do with the ticket. Were you running with or against traffic? I have been running most of my life. I run against traffic, why? Because of stupid ass people on their cell phones, it is nuts out there. That being said, I run the asphalt as much as I can and jump to the sidewalk when needed, asphalt is more forgiving to the joints, hell I am 63 and still run. I think your ticket should have been a warning, period.
 

USMC2010

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Hey, was looking at the picture you provided and this question has nothing to do with the ticket. Were you running with or against traffic? I have been running most of my life. I run against traffic, why? Because of stupid ass people on their cell phones, it is nuts out there. That being said, I run the asphalt as much as I can and jump to the sidewalk when needed, asphalt is more forgiving to the joints, hell I am 63 and still run. I think your ticket should have been a warning, period.
I run against traffic.
 

73mandella

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View attachment 770446
I took this today where it happened. He wrote in his report that I was running where the red line is and that traffic was coming to stand still so they could merge around me. always used to run the green line so if I raise my elbow it covers the curb. I have aver 1400 miles of running in the last 7 years with well over a hundred past this spot. Pretty sure I'm not doing that to traffic or I would have been contacted years ago.

Okay, just for the sake of argument, green is your side of the story and red is the officer's, correct? Are both green and red not in the street? Regardless of whose story one chooses to believe, you were still running in a lane of traffic instead of the sidewalk where the vehicle code requires you to be. Am I missing something?
 

Ziggy

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That's right by the rv park, right? Do you run along Jamaica too? I saw a guy jogging there there other day, friday I think.
 

USMC2010

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That's right by the rv park, right? Do you run along Jamaica too? I saw a guy jogging there there other day, friday I think.
Yes it's right near the rv park, just downhill from the Elks lodge. I seldom if ever run on Jamaica. I have bicycled it though. It wouldn't have been me Friday, I haven't run since the stop. I got sick afterwards and am trying now to get myself back on a good schedule so I have workout time again.
 

HALLETT BOY

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I understand running on asphalt vs concrete , but when I get a flat, I’ll keep going even if I destroy the tire to be able to pull far away from traffic , I will not chance being anywhere near moving cars , especially with people texting these days .
 

Dalton

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About a year ago, ok maybe 2, I forgot why I don't run, I did probably 2 miles and remembered why- shooting pain from my hip to my knee, sustained during Air Assault. But I'm curious to these tips you received from a professional runner?
 

USMC2010

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About a year ago, ok maybe 2, I forgot why I don't run, I did probably 2 miles and remembered why- shooting pain from my hip to my knee, sustained during Air Assault. But I'm curious to these tips you received from a professional runner?
I used to run in Asics. This guy sold me a pair of Altra's and spent about 20 minutes going over form with me. It took a few months for my calves and hamstrings to stretch out but the form change made it easier and more comfortable.
 

Roaddogg 4040

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It looks to me that those sunglasses have side pieces that are too wide to
be considered legal ??? I believe they have to be less than 1/2” wide.
Maybe that regulation is meant only for Joe Public, not for Coppers LOL

Steve
 

Dalton

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It looks to me that those sunglasses have side pieces that are too wide to
be considered legal ??? I believe they have to be less than 1/2” wide.
Maybe that regulation is meant only for Joe Public, not for Coppers LOL

Steve
Oakley Model "radar pace".............high tech glasses designed to track running/walking statistics lol, he doesn't have the ear buds attached though
 

Ballyhoo

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Since the only way to beat moron cops, like this Officer Plunkit, is to beat them in court; the definition of pedestrian was never in debate. The city code only limits pedestrians from standing or walking on the roadway when there is a sidewalk present. Unless the city or the state has a legal definition of walk that includes a speed limitation or counts running as a walk, I'll stand by the fact that the law doesn't apply. in legal terms, any pedestrian (runners included) are prohibited from the listed activities when there is a sidewalk present. The only listed activities are walking and standing. Clearly as evidenced by the photo of the officers running on the road training, this law does not apply to people running.
There is no need or purpose to list every possible activity one could be doing while "afoot." The word "afoot" covers running and all other activities like, crawling, doing handstands, bear crawls etc... The intent of this section is to keep pedestrians off the roadway when a sidewalk is present (safety). There a number of statutes that don't list every possibility known to man. This is when the courts and cops follow case law on the interpretations and intent of these statutes.

As far as the pic of cops running in the roadway that is easy. Any city sanctioned event like a 5k, 10k or other contests, races or charity events would get a pass on the pedestrian in the roadway section. These type of events include road,intersection closures and other safety measures for the participants. Its not just the cops in the picture that are getting special treatment.

Those are the facts about the section related to this incident. There could be other factors as to why the OP received a citation-I don't know for sure as I was not there. However, I do have some personal experience with the officer involved and feel for the OP. If there were no other factors involved, I do feel that this is a CS citation. Maybe a warning at best would have solved the issue. I don't no many cops that would flip the switch and make a stop like that - Cops on motorcycles that only deal with traffic issues are the most likely. But most traffic cops probably would not have written that cite. Every profession has, "that guy" and we all know who they are.
 
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