TraneXR 16 Air Conditioner help

[Dalton]

Is nobody seeing the junk around the copper to steel connections of the compressor? There should not be anything there at all. Even after the compressor replacements.

I'd really look into getting a second opinion on it. There are quiet a few things that make me question their knowledge and installation capability at this point.

Yeah the connections at the compressor look extra long

 

[Rajobigguy]

It looks like that heat absorbing putty for brazing. I saw that as well and zoomed in.

I agree with the second opinion. Or at least get a higher level technician out (if they even have one)

I get that it’s heat sink putty. I was referring to the solder job itself. A good solder joint will not have that much solder slathered around the tube.

 

[Rajobigguy]

It wouldn’t ice up internally and cause a blockage. The refrigerant itself doesn’t freeze.

The blockage or restriction would cause a high pressure situation, but In previous posts the OP stated unit was told everything is correct with the readings.

The refrigerant itself doesn’t freeze but if there is any moisture in the system then you can get freezing anywhere there is a pressure drop.

 

[Riverbound]

The refrigerant itself doesn’t freeze but if there is any moisture in the system then you can get freezing anywhere there is a pressure drop.

If there’s any moisture in the system…you have a much bigger problem.

 

[SoCalDave]

I get that it’s heat sink putty. I was referring to the solder job itself. A good solder joint will not have that much solder slathered around the tube.

Agreed, I'm not an HVAC tech but that looks like a shit brazing job...

 

[TPC]

I digress.

 

[rrrr]

A lot of heat was used making those connections.

As @Flying_Lavey and @Rajobigguy posted, the appearance of those joints say a lot about the skill of the tech and the quality of the work, and none of it is good.

 

[TCHB]

The odd thing the same failure started when the new air conditioner was installed and two other compressors.

 

[Riverbound]

The odd thing the same failure started when the new air conditioner was installed and two other compressors.

That’s why I believe the issue is TXV related. That’s the only thing that wound explain it working sometimes and not other times.

 

[Riverbound]

A lot of heat was used making those connections.

As @Flying_Lavey and @Rajobigguy posted, the appearance of those joints say a lot about the skill of the tech and the quality of the work, and none of it is good.

Not knowing who he has working on the unit I was going to refrain from any judgement of their skill set. But a lot of this screams lack of experience and just guessing at what the problem is.

 

[TCHB]

That’s why I believe the issue is TXV related. That’s the only thing that wound explain it working sometimes and not other times.

It does make sense.

 

[TCHB]

I just spoke to the technician and he said they put in a fixed TXV last time They are coming out to put in a new TXV that controls. This is the 3rd one!

 

[TCHB]

I just spoke to the technician and he said they put in a fixed TXV last time They are coming out to put in a new TXV that controls. This is the 3rd one!

The unit ran great for 5 days and then Sunday evening the knocking starts again. Yes they removed the non controlling TXV and put in the controlling valve. The technician thinks the internal safety relief valve is opening. This valve is internal on the compressor.

 

[OLDRAAT]

Why didn't they bring out a new outside unit by now? This is sad and unacceptable to me.

Sorry for all your issues T.

 

[Riverbound]

The unit ran great for 5 days and then Sunday evening the knocking starts again. Yes they removed the non controlling TXV and put in the controlling valve. The technician thinks the internal safety relief valve is opening. This valve is internal on the compressor. View attachment 1144360

Based on his info on this sheet the unit is overcharged and has Low airflow a cross the coil. Not sure if these numbers are before or after TXV was installed Or with fixed office. But just off this info refrigerant charge is not correct and you have an airflow issue.

 

[Riverbound]

I just spoke to the technician and he said they put in a fixed TXV last time They are coming out to put in a new TXV that controls. This is the 3rd one!

You can not use a fixed orfice on a 2 stage unit

 

[TCHB]

You can not use a fixed orfice on a 2 stage unit

It is a single stage compressor.

 

[TCHB]

Based on his info on this sheet the unit is overcharged and has Low airflow a cross the coil. Not sure if these numbers are before or after TXV was installed Or with fixed office. But just off this info refrigerant charge is not correct and you have an airflow issue.

These readings are after the new TXV valve.

 

[TCHB]

Why would it run for 5 days and then

Why didn't they bring out a new outside unit by now? This is sad and unacceptable to me.

Sorry for all your issues T.

They did a complete new unit.

 

[TCHB]

The suction line is 83 and discharge is 112 right now with outside temp 101. Set point in the house 77.
It does not make sense to me why is running quiet, smooth and then bang. It is so random 5 days apart.

Trane Factory has been horrible for help.

 

[Dalton]

These readings are after the new TXV valve.

Maybe have another company come verify the subcooling and superheat.

Another thing too, you’re really supposed to flow nitrogen while brazing, and they’ve been brazing on this once quite a bit…hopefully they were flowing nitrogen.

 

[Riverbound]

These readings are after the new TXV valve.

Wrong or incorrectly adjusted TXV

Bad airflow across coil.

These are two glaring problems based off those numbers. And would explain what you’re experiencing.

 

[Riverbound]

The suction line is 83 and discharge is 112 right now with outside temp 101. Set point in the house 77.
It does not make sense to me why is running quiet, smooth and then bang. It is so random 5 days apart.

Trane Factory has been horrible for help.

My honest feedback is this is an install issue not an equipment issue.

 

[TCHB]

My honest feedback is this is an install issue not an equipment issue.

It could be!

 

[TCHB]

Wrong or incorrectly adjusted TXV

Bad airflow across coil.

These are two glaring problems based off those numbers. And would explain what you’re experiencing.

It runs great for about 5 days and then the compressor starts to hammer. When the compressor hammers it will trip off on overheat protection after 8 minutes. During that 8 minutes compressor is not pumping. I think the internal relief valve is lifting putting hot gas back to the suction side of the compressor. Once this happens it takes about a hour and a half before compressor cools down and restarts. Once restarted it can run for days with no problem and the it happens again.

 

[Rajobigguy]

Hey Tony: I just found out that June & Bubba had a new Trane unit put in and they have had the same experience as you. I think they said they went through like 5 complete units before they they finally got one that worked but it has only been working for the last ten days and are crossing their fingers that this one lasts.

 

[TCHB]

Hey Tony: I just found out that June & Bubba had a new Trane unit put in and they have had the same experience as you. I think they said they went through like 5 complete units before they they finally got one that worked but it has only been working for the last ten days and are crossing their fingers that this one lasts.

Thanks Roger I will send them a text.

 

[TCHB]

single phase copeland scroll running backwards

The #1 HVACR Community

hvac-talk.com

What do you think?

 

[Riverbound]

It runs great for about 5 days and then the compressor starts to hammer. When the compressor hammers it will trip off on overheat protection after 8 minutes. During that 8 minutes compressor is not pumping. I think the internal relief valve is lifting putting hot gas back to the suction side of the compressor. Once this happens it takes about a hour and a half before compressor cools down and restarts. Once restarted it can run for days with no problem and the it happens again.

All this Supports my initial thoughts.

 

[TCHB]

I am going to install a new non programmable thermostat and see what happens. Thanks for all the help. If I can not fix it the wife will want a new house!

 

[SoCalDave]

Wow, how fuked up is this. I'm really surprised Trane has not sent out a factory tech on this. Gotta be horrible to deal with for this amount of time.
Note to self, don't buy a Trane system.

Good luck with your outcome either way.

 

[TCHB]

Wow, how fuked up is this. I'm really surprised Trane has not sent out a factory tech on this. Gotta be horrible to deal with for this amount of time.
Note to self, don't buy a Trane system.

Good luck with your outcome either way.

Yes my local Dealer has been great but Train Factory has not supported them or me. I got EMail saying they are sorry for delay but will get back to you soon. Horrible!

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I am going to install a new non programmable thermostat and see what happens. Thanks for all the help. If I can not fix it the wife will want a new house!

Riverbound is telling you EXACTLY what is wrong. The thermostat has NOTHING to do with it. It is just a switch.

I was getting a similar impression. I'd prefer to see the sub-cooling up closer to 14 degrees myself. I'd be quite interested to see what kind of static pressures the system has.

 

[TCHB]

I think we found out what is happening.
https://emersonclimate.custhelp.com...phase-scroll-compressors-in-reverse-direction

 

[TCHB]

Trane Tech
Nest thermostats have a internal battery and what is happening is it’s drawing power from Yuit drops voltage out on the contractor to only 17 volts in the coil. This causes the compressor stop and then start. When the compressor stops in can spin backwards for a moment because the suction has less pressure than discharge. Trane recommended a 20 second delay put in on the 24 volt side. This time delay will give the compressor time to come to a stop.My dealer now said they will put the $10 part in on all installs with scroll compressors. Trane has known about this problem.

 

[TCHB]

 

[Riverbound]

Trane Tech
Nest thermostats have a internal battery and what is happening is it’s drawing power from Yuit drops voltage out on the contractor to only 17 volts in the coil. This causes the compressor stop and then start. When the compressor stops in can spin backwards for a moment because the suction has less pressure than discharge. Trane recommended a 20 second delay put in on the 24 volt side. This time delay will give the compressor time to come to a stop.My dealer now said they will put the $10 part in on all installs with scroll compressors. Trane has known about this problem.

that’s the weirdest explanation I have ever heard.

The stat doesn’t pull power from Y it pulls from R

And every half way decent condenser has a time delay built into the condenser as well.

 

[TCHB]

that’s the weirdest explanation I have ever heard.

The stat doesn’t pull power from Y it pulls from R

And every half way decent condenser has a time delay built into the condenser as well.

Funny thing is that my neighbor in Havasu bought a new Trane and had the same problem. 6 days ago Mercury Air put in a new Thermostat. I know it seems crazy but I hope it works. Tired of messing with this and my wife looking up the food chain for a new house.

 

[Dalton]

that’s the weirdest explanation I have ever heard.

The stat doesn’t pull power from Y it pulls from R

And every half way decent condenser has a time delay built into the condenser as well.

I do hear nest is problematic though.......i usually recommend ecobee or same brand thermostat as unit

 

[Riverbound]

I do hear nest is problematic though.......i usually recommend ecobee or same brand thermostat as unit

I agree I personally would never run Nest but we install hundreds a year and don’t have issues like this.

 

[Orange Juice]

I bought the same unit in 2016, day 2 the compressor motor failed.

2 years later condenser fan blades broken.

4 years later, condrnfof fan blades, and some kind of air flow ring.

Warranty picked up the “parts only” after second year.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I do hear nest is problematic though.......i usually recommend ecobee or same brand thermostat as unit

I agree I personally would never run Nest but we install hundreds a year and don’t have issues like this.

Same here. I advise against them whenever possible. For houses I don't think you can do much better than a Honeywell. For businesses, I've REALLY been liking the updated Venstars with their skyport service. Incredibly robust.

 

[TCHB]

Today is day 7 after the installation of a 30 second timer on the compressor and change out of my old nest. This is the first time the units have ran a week with out the crazy noise and compressor not pumping. I hope it works if a not a new house is in my future.

 

[SoCalDave]

Would be interesting to know if it was one or the other causing the dilemma.

 

[Rajobigguy]

This is what you need. One psi to open and minimal reduction in flow.

McMaster-Carr

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www.mcmaster.com

 

[TCHB]

Would be interesting to know if it was one or the other causing the dilemma.

We have friends in Havasu that their new Trane XR17 was doing the exact same thing with another type of smart thermosta. The changed it about 11 days ago and no problems. The delay timer is the key.