TRI TOONS, 3 OR 4 BLADE PROP TRUTH AND FACTS....

[Lavey29]

Your cavitation plate should be just above the waterline when running at speed. When I bought my current toon the motor was mounted as low as possible. I raised in one hole (about an inch) and picked up 7mph. I could probably go up another inch, but the boat still turns well and top speed is about where it should be for the size of the boat and the power I have (probably leaving 2-3 mph on the table). The cav plate is also just above the waterline now when running at speed.

When I was setting up my Skater I was able to get hard numbers on motor height and setback using jack plates from guys that had already done it. With toons there is not as much info out there because most don't care much about dialing them in for ideal performance. The manager of the dealership I bought my toon from thought I am crazy for changing the motor height until I told him I gained 7mph.

A jack plate (like mentioned above) would be the easiest way to play with motor height. It might also void your warranty though. Good luck with the prop testing. I have thought about trying a 4 blade as well. I will be interested to read how the different props work for you.

What is your boat/engine set up. What speed and RPM were you getting prior and after? 7mph with no prop change is pretty good.

 

[TCHB]

I raised the engines in my boat 4 inches. Now the bullet is right at the bottom of the toon. I had to pull engines and modify mounting brackets that would allow me to go up the 4 inches.

 

[PlanB]

What is your boat/engine set up. What speed and RPM were you getting prior and after? 7mph with no prop change is pretty good.

25 Bennington R25 with 300 Merc Verado running a 16p Merc inertia prop. The boat was running 42 mph at 5800 rpm's. After the motor was raised 49 mph at 6200 rpm's.

 

[warlock250]

25 Bennington R25 with 300 Merc Verado running a 16p Merc inertia prop. The boat was running 42 mph at 5800 rpm's. After the motor was raised 49 mph at 6200 rpm's.

Yep a lot of shops just hang them and send them down the road.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Lavey29]

25 Bennington R25 with 300 Merc Verado running a 16p Merc inertia prop. The boat was running 42 mph at 5800 rpm's. After the motor was raised 49 mph at 6200 rpm's.

Nice and nothing lost on the low end either huh?

 

[PlanB]

Nice and nothing lost on the low end either huh?

Nope, motor was just buried from the dealer. It works much better through the rpm range now.

 

[Patyacht]

I've got El/Hyd Jack for changing motor height! Still trying to find the best setting.

 

[BEST PRICE**]

I've got El/Hyd Jack for changing motor height! Still trying to find the best setting.

you need to get with 2FF, he with out a doubt knows most about boats and pontoons...he will get the most performace out of a set up,.. what he has taught me is so for is over whelming

 

[2FORCEFULL]

you need to get with 2FF, he with out a doubt knows most about boats and pontoons...he will get the most performace out of a set up,.. what he has taught me is so for is over whelming

LOL.....

 

[2FORCEFULL]

up date,...took the new 230 coach with honda 250 ,2.0 gear,.... same thing...anything after about 2500 rpms the prop blows out.... the slip goes sky high...5000 rpms to go thirty....6000 rpms it's at 40 mph... I did notice this though.... with the engine trim down... half the prop is above the bottom of the toon...so I'm thinking the motor needs to come down...and probly a 4 blade prop to get more bite @ mid and top end...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

so here's my plan,.... lower the motor on the honda…I can only go down 1 hole(about 3/4'') I have both , 3 blade 17p ,and 3 blade 19p honda props,... so if lowering the motor gets enough bite I'll be able to try a 19 to see what happens... also gonna order a 15p,17p and 19p 4 blades from solas and get hub kits for both the honda and the Evinrude...we'll see what happens..

 

[2FORCEFULL]

you need to get with 2FF, he with out a doubt knows most about boats and pontoons...he will get the most performace out of a set up,.. what he has taught me is so for is over whelming

LOL....

 

[2FORCEFULL]

up date.… got the 230 coach w/ honda...17p 3 blade with 2.0 gear...took it out to mead... same thing....5000 rpms to go 30 mph, 6000 is 40 mph... it has a brand new out of the box from honda prop... but the boat did exzact the same as the 27'r did at 5000 rpms.... so... sum ting wong….at about 2500 rpms it starts blowing out the prop//// tooo much torgue for the 14 1/4''???? that's what I'm thinking...as it is now, both 23'10'' pontoons.... the Evinrude is 10 mph faster.//

 

[TCHB]

I am running 15 inch props on my toon.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I am running 15 inch props on my toon.

Alittle more info, and a pic would help a lot....I know you have twin...Honda's??? what hp and how long is the toon????

 

[2FORCEFULL]

this is one of those threads that will be helpful for years to come...posting what you tried, what worked and what didn't is gonna be the fact>>>>>

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I know this for fact,... on the honda, at 2500/3000 rpms if I stuff the stick rpms jump up over 1000 rpms,.. so that tells me that I'm over powering the prop ….it needs a lot more bite as is...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

update... got the props in, 15,17,19 p 4 blades, also got hubs for both honda and Evinrude... I'll have both toons at havasu, so gonna do some testing this weekend

 

[FlyByWire]

You’re always better with a lower pitched prop. Family and friends show up. It puts way less stress on the engine and Captain.

Yeah? I worry about it being so easy to hit the limiter. It accelerates nice and hard right up through 53 or so then it’s on the limiter. Seems like it has to be run strung out all the time. Getting terrible mileage. Lol

 

[BajaMike]

Yeah? I worry about it being so easy to hit the limiter. It accelerates nice and hard right up through 53 or so then it’s on the limiter. Seems like it has to be run strung out all the time. Getting terrible mileage. Lol

FlyByWire, I get your point. I don’t know your engine/drive combination and if you mean 53 mph or 5300 RPM.

If you can easily get to red line/limiter/high rev buzzer with a full load on a hot day, you can probably go up to a higher pitch prop. My point was, a lot of guys over prop their boats to get speed, but when the boat is loaded with people and gas and water and beer, they can’t get close to red line, or it takes forever to get there, and that is really hard on the engine.....aside from it not being that much fun.

It’s like starting out you Porsche Turbo in 4th gear from a stop sign.

 

[BajaMike]

up date.… got the 230 coach w/ honda...17p 3 blade with 2.0 gear...took it out to mead... same thing....5000 rpms to go 30 mph, 6000 is 40 mph... it has a brand new out of the box from honda prop... but the boat did exzact the same as the 27'r did at 5000 rpms.... so... sum ting wong….at about 2500 rpms it starts blowing out the prop//// tooo much torgue for the 14 1/4''???? that's what I'm thinking...as it is now, both 23'10'' pontoons.... the Evinrude is 10 mph faster.//

2FORCEFULL, you know more than I do, but if “at about 2500 RPMs it starts blowing out the prop”, doesn’t that mean the engine isn’t trimmed down enough or the motor is mounted too high on the transom? Or maybe the prop is lifting the transom and needs to be labbed to pull down the transom. Educate me.

 

[FlyByWire]

FlyByWire, I get your point. I don’t know your engine/drive combination and if you mean 53 mph or 5300 RPM.

If you can easily get to red line/limiter/high rev buzzer with a full load on a hot day, you can probably go up to a higher pitch prop. My point was, a lot of guys over prop their boats to get speed, but when the boat is loaded with people and gas and water and beer, they can’t get close to red line, or it takes forever to get there, and that is really hard on the engine.....aside from it not being that much fun.

It’s like starting out you Porsche Turbo in 4th gear from a stop sign.

Thanks. That all makes sense. I meant 53 MPH, I’ll hit the limiter at about 55 MPH. However full I’ve had the boat so far it hasn’t been an issue whatsoever to get up to the limiter. It has a 3 blade 16 pitch on it now (25 foot Manitou tritoon / 400 verado) and was thinking about trying a 17p 4 blade.

 

[BajaMike]

Thanks. That all makes sense. I meant 53 MPH, I’ll hit the limiter at about 55 MPH. However full I’ve had the boat so far it hasn’t been an issue whatsoever to get up to the limiter. It has a 3 blade 16 pitch on it now (25 foot Manitou tritoon / 400 verado) and was thinking about trying a 17p 4 blade.

FlyByWire.....wow, 53 mph in a 25 foot Tritoon sounds great to me. I want your boat! Sounds like the 400 Verado is a great engine for you. Most passengers on a Tritons don’t want to go 60 or 70 mph, but us captains might want to. Sounds to me like you could run a 17p 3 blade or 4 blade. Get a prop shop that will let you try them both....see which one you like.

Sounds like you have a hot rod Tritoon now, you can always control your RPMs manually.

 

[FlyByWire]

FlyByWire.....wow, 53 mph in a 25 foot Tritoon sounds great to me. I want your boat! Sounds like the 400 Verado is a great engine for you. Most passengers on a Tritons don’t want to go 60 or 70 mph, but us captains might want to. Sounds to me like you could run a 17p 3 blade or 4 blade. Get a prop shop that will let you try them both....see which one you like.

Sounds like you have a hot rod Tritoon now, you can always control your RPMs manually.

Heh, I guess END goal isnt for more speed, but lower RPM's at a given speed. Say I want to cruise at 40, right now its at about 5800-6000 RPM, and nearly 20 gallons per hour. My hope with a bigger prop was to drop the RPM's down a bit and get better mileage and not so high up in the RPM range. I just wasn't sure I was looking at the whole thing the right way. Props aren't cheap to start experimenting with.. haha.

 

[Justfishing]

Do you prop it for 2 people or twleve? Or maybe 6-8 with everyone from the driver forward.

 

[PlanB]

Thanks. That all makes sense. I meant 53 MPH, I’ll hit the limiter at about 55 MPH. However full I’ve had the boat so far it hasn’t been an issue whatsoever to get up to the limiter. It has a 3 blade 16 pitch on it now (25 foot Manitou tritoon / 400 verado) and was thinking about trying a 17p 4 blade.

I am running the same size prop on a 25' with a 300 Verado, and it works pretty well. You should be able to go up to a 17 without a problem.

 

[PlanB]

What gear ratio on your 400? At 6000 rpm’s on my 300 I am at about 47 mph.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Well, went out on havasu, put the 17p 4 blade....before it would blow out the prop... 5000 rpms was 30 mph,...now 5000 rpms is 38 mph..WOT rpms is @ 5900 ,43-44 mph.... before, I was on the rev limit constant...that was 2 people and 60 gals of fuel bimini top up,...
so for my set up i'm thinking to go with a 15p four blade... I have one to try next time out... might need it to run full loaded..but what it did fix was the rpm jump every time you stuff the stick..the 3 blade didn't have enough bite, and the honda came with a 17p 3 blade that was only 14 1/4 diameter ...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

so now, 5000 rpm, 14 1/4" 17p 3 blade, 2.0 gear 30 mph= 25% slip

with the 14 1/4" 17p 4 blade, 5000 rpms ,38 mph = 6% slip....

w/ 3 blade. top speed was 39 mph..@ 6300 rpms= 23 % slip

w/ 4 blade top speed is 44 mph...@ 5900 rpms =7 % slip

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I also found this on the honda web site... the wot rpm for the honda 250hp is 5300-6300 rpms...

where as I was told max was 6000 pms...that means it might be better to run a 15p, or 16 p

https://marine.honda.com/outboards/motor-detail/BF200-225-250

 

[2FORCEFULL]

more prop swap news...took sues Evinrude out to mead.... I put the 14 1/4 x19p 4 blade on ..with the motor height, the prop was too much pitch for top end....only 5400 rpms wot.....got on plane good and cruised 35 mph at 4000 rpms and 45 at 5000 rpms...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

not sure about motor height, should the cav plate be 1'' above the notch on the center toon...or 1'' above the bottom of the center toon...

 

[Lavey29]

2FF I really appreciate you sharing your testing results with us but I have to laugh everytime you reference "stuffing the stick" with a toon. In my mind I picture the boat going like 3mph faster when you stuff the stick even in a perfect pop rop set up. But please keep us informed of your test results. It is interesting.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

2FF I really appreciate you sharing your testing results with us but I have to laugh everytime you reference "stuffing the stick" with a toon. In my mind I picture the boat going like 3mph faster when you stuff the stick even in a perfect pop rop set up. But please keep us informed of your test results. It is interesting.

thanks for the reply ,...and here's where i'm at.....I like things to work as they should...If it's supposed to go 3 mph faster.... that's where I want it to be...as in my tinking right now.... I think the motor is too low...and how I got to that thought is a simple test,... on sues evinrude… I can trim it to the moon and the prop doesn't respond to it...way over trimmed should have at some point a negative result,.. as in it should let the prop blow out and rpms jump to over rev'd...as it is..... that doesn't happen....so that tells me the drive is too low....but, I don't really have knowledge of how it should be with pontoons...maybe my theories of how it should perform is off... but... basic knowledge tells me it's wrong....so, yester day I lifted the motor up 2 holes...about 1 1/4''.....with a straight edge I found that the cav plate was below the bottom of the notch on the center toon.... there's a lot more going on with her toon.... the center toon is 27'' and outers are 25''.... so at speed, the outers have less drag...it also has a notch on about 2' of the center toon.... the basic idea is to set the motor height to where it gets on plne easy...and cav plate is right at , or above the water line....so I'll find out....as of now the 19p 4 blade should get to the limit of 6000 rpms...before lifting it would only turn to about 5300 rpms...if every thing works as planned.... it should get the toon to 55 mph.... pretty good for only 250 hp on a 24' toon...so we'll see... gonna run it at mead to day...if it over revs , and get too high of slip, I have a 15x17 4 blade on order....so, only a water test will tell

 

[2FORCEFULL]

performance is what drives evolution... things go faster using less fuel and power....getting the max out of power on the same boat is always the goal for me.... if I just wanted to go fast,... I'd do like most others.... just buy a faster boat....speed was not the desired factor when we bough 2 toons...easy cruise speed was /is.... I wanna cruise @ 35/40 not on pin...the Evinrude does it with ease.... so pretty close..what I see in the toon world is the switch to wallet racing...Sues boat was 60k....how others justify spending 3 times that amount to go 10/15 mph @ WOT is easy to figure.....and real apparent....they head straight for the channel...tow bars and radar arches on pontoons are like false eye lashes on bar fly's.. just for looks and attention....HEY LAM....look what I got...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

and yes.… I'm old.....and have some real old school ideas and thought's...for me....In life the first thing one should do is pay off their home...pretty easy thought for me...I owe it so get it paid....there is no way I would finance a pontoon boat and still owe on a house..the amount of interest people pay to to be able to cruise the channel in style is crazy...cars, trucks, rzr's, boats, campers, all financed..a family of 10 people could live comfortable off just the interest they pay...twin engines.... yes, I have them.... but hooked to 2 paid for pontoons

maybe what I should do is put engine jacks on the outer toons, so when go to the channel I could hang 2 extra motors... I could gut the engines so just the cases where hanging there...HEY-LAM.... I have triple's....LOL...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

 

[Runs2rch]

and yes.… I'm old.....and have some real old school ideas and thought's...for me....In life the first thing one should do is pay off their home...pretty easy thought for me...I owe it so get it paid....there is no way I would finance a pontoon boat and still owe on a house..the amount of interest people pay to to be able to cruise the channel in style is crazy...cars, trucks, rzr's, boats, campers, all financed..a family of 10 people could live comfortable off just the interest they pay...twin engines.... yes, I have them.... but hooked to 2 paid for pontoons

maybe what I should do is put engine jacks on the outer toons, so when go to the channel I could hang 2 extra motors... I could gut the engines so just the cases where hanging there...HEY-LAM.... I have triple's....LOL...

You need to hang two more bbq's and smoker! Hey LAM I have more meat than you!

 

[2FORCEFULL]

 

[2FORCEFULL]

 

[TCHB]

Here is pic of my set up.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

 

[2FORCEFULL]

You need to hang two more bbq's and smoker! Hey LAM I have more meat than you!

are you going to mead today???

 

[Runs2rch]

are you going to mead today???

Yeah. Boat is down in a slip. Heading either to middle point or toward temple bar.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

View attachment 771813 Here is pic of my set up.

according to honda…. the water intake needs to be below the bottom of the boat... that being said... yours is completely above the water line.... do you notice high motor heat if run on pin for longer times??/? I know you said you had to change the water intake grates.... but ,did that eliminate the over heat problems???.... I know for fact that Hondas run at a high heat range...210 degrees......wouldn't take much to over heat one...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Yeah. Boat is down in a slip. Heading either to middle point or toward temple bar.

are you taking your 210?... I'm headed out to test the raised motor today...

 

[Runs2rch]

are you taking your 210?... I'm headed out to test the raised motor today...

Haven't decide. Maybe. We were talking about it last night.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Haven't decide. Maybe. We were talking about it last night.

call my cell when you head down....

 

[Lavey29]

thanks for the reply ,...and here's where i'm at.....I like things to work as they should...If it's supposed to go 3 mph faster.... that's where I want it to be...as in my tinking right now.... I think the motor is too low...and how I got to that thought is a simple test,... on sues evinrude… I can trim it to the moon and the prop doesn't respond to it...way over trimmed should have at some point a negative result,.. as in it should let the prop blow out and rpms jump to over rev'd...as it is..... that doesn't happen....so that tells me the drive is too low....but, I don't really have knowledge of how it should be with pontoons...maybe my theories of how it should perform is off... but... basic knowledge tells me it's wrong....so, yester day I lifted the motor up 2 holes...about 1 1/4''.....with a straight edge I found that the cav plate was below the bottom of the notch on the center toon.... there's a lot more going on with her toon.... the center toon is 27'' and outers are 25''.... so at speed, the outers have less drag...it also has a notch on about 2' of the center toon.... the basic idea is to set the motor height to where it gets on plne easy...and cav plate is right at , or above the water line....so I'll find out....as of now the 19p 4 blade should get to the limit of 6000 rpms...before lifting it would only turn to about 5300 rpms...if every thing works as planned.... it should get the toon to 55 mph.... pretty good for only 250 hp on a 24' toon...so we'll see... gonna run it at mead to day...if it over revs , and get too high of slip, I have a 15x17 4 blade on order....so, only a water test will tell

Well you obviously have a lot of boating knowledge and tenacity but shouldn't the dealers and manufacturers of various toon models already have the set up guidelines for different engine packages ? I mean they sell 1000's of toons each year. They should know which prop works best with which motor and which hole to mount the motor. I know other variables come into play like temp and elevation along with typical boat load. Basically what I'm asking is why isn"t the dealers set up as close to optimal as it could be right from the start? I know there was also a previous poster in the thread who found nice performance increase by adjusting the motor height so obviously his set up from the dealer was not optimal either. Seems like you are doing a lot of testing work that should already be well known to those who manufacture and sell tons as their business.

 

[PlanB]

The dealer thought I was crazy for wanting to raise my motor. His attitude was “it’s a pontoon, who cares?”

When I bought my Skater, I removed the motors, put on jack plates and installed external pickups. The boat went from running 109 mph to 117 mph. Just a setup change gained 8 mph.

I am with 2FF. A boat should run to it’s potential. It does not matter if it’s a pontoon or a 100 mph performance boat.