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Trying to verify the back story of my boat!

ctchndltgo200

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Here is the story I got; Very early in 1957, General Motors backed a circle boat team. The contracted Pearson Marine to build 6 boats for the 1958 season. Late 1957, Biesemeyer and Pearson split, Rusty took the molds and top designs with him, I've heard them called bubble top or bubble tails. They still had to complete the contract. Pearson Marine built 6 "Chined" narrow tale circle hulls out fitted with 409 GM big block engines and full race equipped to mate to the 6 Biesemeyer rolled stern, winged, slit cock pit bubble top. The story goes onto say they were dominate boats till 1962, in 1963 another builder brought out the low profile boat and the old wave cutter bow boat could not compete with the new boats. From 1962 to 1967 I am not sure what was up with the boat. In mid 1967 a GM engineer aquired the boat and re-outfitted it as a sport/ski boat, all though it was still a stab & steer design.

I have her, and have for about 16 years now. She was a 55mph stab & steer flatty till the stringers gave out, unfortunately I tried to put in new stringers, I do't know how to do fiberglass so long story short, need the right hard wood, prepped properly, and some one that knows how to lay "MARINE" glass.

If there is anyone that can verify this please help. these pics may help
 

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ctchndltgo200

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She is sitting on the original Pearson trailer, vin# JP1505. Boat is titled as "BER 58 HK",Vin# DR684689T. Original title# 8317936835, current Title# 8434839332
 

AzGeo

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Right off the bat the exhaust manifolds don't look like "348/409 style", but do resemble "265/283/327/350 + style". As I recall back in 1958 Chevy small blocks were making 'one HP per cubic inch' and 348's were not close to that performance level. The '409 HP 409 cu in motors' didn't come out until late 1962 and later '425 HP 409's'. (or Z11 427" mystery ) Back in those days most boats were 'glass over wood' and any 'all glass boats' were very thick and heavy. Your boat does not look 'thick and heavy' or 'race rigged' from the photos of the parts. If your boat did have a racing history with 'W' motor power, it may be outstanding in the minds of west coast historic racing groups with members like; Bob Gardner, Harlan Orrin, John Stoker, Fred Iaia . Good luck.
 

ctchndltgo200

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The big block was taken out at the time it ended its racing career, a 1968 4 bolt, 350 SBC, The earliest one I have ever seen, Jan. on block, feb. on cast iron 4 brl spread bore intake, both to far gone to save, kept the march cast 041X heads off of it.
 

AzGeo

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OK, but it's got a fixed plate. Even my 1956 (glass over wood) Mandella had a movable plate system and it was just a 'chromed up Cad powered play boat'.
 

ctchndltgo200

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Right off the bat the exhaust manifolds don't look like "348/409 style", but do resemble "265/283/327/350 + style". As I recall back in 1958 Chevy small blocks were making 'one HP per cubic inch' and 348's were not close to that performance level. The '409 HP 409 cu in motors' didn't come out until late 1962 and later '425 HP 409's'. (or Z11 427" mystery ) Back in those days most boats were 'glass over wood' and any 'all glass boats' were very thick and heavy. Your boat does not look 'thick and heavy' or 'race rigged' from the photos of the parts. If your boat did have a racing history with 'W' motor power, it may be outstanding in the minds of west coast historic racing groups with members like; Bob Gardner, Harlan Orrin, John Stoker, Fred Iaia . Good luck.
The hull is an inch thick at the shaft log and rudder hole, the rudder has been centered from the original left side offset, I will try to get some more close up detail for you. Also the exhaust used to exit thru the hull, between the stringers and was moved to the bubble top later as well. None of witch I did.
 

ctchndltgo200

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Thinking about it, could the old cav plate rods have come out lower on the hull between the stringers where you see the two round plugs that were put in. And you can walk on the bow top and it has no flex, solid with no backers.
 

ctchndltgo200

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Right off the bat the exhaust manifolds don't look like "348/409 style", but do resemble "265/283/327/350 + style". As I recall back in 1958 Chevy small blocks were making 'one HP per cubic inch' and 348's were not close to that performance level. The '409 HP 409 cu in motors' didn't come out until late 1962 and later '425 HP 409's'. (or Z11 427" mystery ) Back in those days most boats were 'glass over wood' and any 'all glass boats' were very thick and heavy. Your boat does not look 'thick and heavy' or 'race rigged' from the photos of the parts. If your boat did have a racing history with 'W' motor power, it may be outstanding in the minds of west coast historic racing groups with members like; Bob Gardner, Harlan Orrin, John Stoker, Fred Iaia . Good luck.
I was not able to find these guys, any links would be greatly apriciated. Wish I could spell!!! :yikes:yikes:yikes
 

AzGeo

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West Coast Boat Racer's Reunion and Museum or Irvine Lake V-drive Regatta.
 

ctchndltgo200

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The hull is an inch thick at the shaft log and rudder hole, the rudder has been centered from the original left side offset, I will try to get some more close up detail for you. Also the exhaust used to exit thru the hull, between the stringers and was moved to the bubble top later as well. None of witch I did.
It has to have been a W motor, 348, and The 3% runner hull is why there are two cav plate push rods hole, witch have been filled in down lower, they where not exhaust as I thought.:grumble::cool:)
 

Sharp Shooter

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Here is the story I got; Very early in 1957, General Motors backed a circle boat team. The contracted Pearson Marine to build 6 boats for the 1958 season. Late 1957, Biesemeyer and Pearson split, Rusty took the molds and top designs with him, I've heard them called bubble top or bubble tails. They still had to complete the contract. Pearson Marine built 6 "Chined" narrow tale circle hulls out fitted with 409 GM big block engines and full race equipped to mate to the 6 Biesemeyer rolled stern, winged, slit cock pit bubble top. The story goes onto say they were dominate boats till 1962, in 1963 another builder brought out the low profile boat and the old wave cutter bow boat could not compete with the new boats. From 1962 to 1967 I am not sure what was up with the boat. In mid 1967 a GM engineer aquired the boat and re-outfitted it as a sport/ski boat, all though it was still a stab & steer design.

I have her, and have for about 16 years now. She was a 55mph stab & steer flatty till the stringers gave out, unfortunately I tried to put in new stringers, I do't know how to do fiberglass so long story short, need the right hard wood, prepped properly, and some one that knows how to lay "MARINE" glass.

If there is anyone that can verify this please help. these pics may help
I doubt this will help, but I have 2 of Bill Biesemeyer's books titled "The History of Biesemeyer Boats". I received these from Bill personally. In the book there's no mention of Peason Marine specifically. The first guy who helped him with money was Milton Edgar back in '56. In '58 the Biesemeyer brothers built their first all glass 16' boat. They made a few 16's before the company went broke. At this point they were able to borrow money from someone allowing them to move to East McDowell Road in PHX and changed the name to Biesemeyer Plastics. The book doesn't say who the new sponsor was so maybe this is where Pearson was involved (or not).

The book mentions the 125 mph record holding hydro "Wrangler" driven by Jack Pettijohn in '62. The book says Rusty Moved to Texas in 1960 where he sold swimming pool equipment. While their he began the mock up for the Carribean. He loved that word. In '62 he came back to Tempe Az where he found someone to loan him money to restart a business and make the Carribean.

The book jumps ahead to '65 after that.

I hope this helps somehow.
 

ctchndltgo200

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I doubt this will help, but I have 2 of Bill Biesemeyer's books titled "The History of Biesemeyer Boats". I received these from Bill personally. In the book there's no mention of Peason Marine specifically. The first guy who helped him with money was Milton Edgar back in '56. In '58 the Biesemeyer brothers built their first all glass 16' boat. They made a few 16's before the company went broke. At this point they were able to borrow money from someone allowing them to move to East McDowell Road in PHX and changed the name to Biesemeyer Plastics. The book doesn't say who the new sponsor was so maybe this is where Pearson was involved (or not).

The book mentions the 125 mph record holding hydro "Wrangler" driven by Jack Pettijohn in '62. The book says Rusty Moved to Texas in 1960 where he sold swimming pool equipment. While their he began the mock up for the Carribean. He loved that word. In '62 he came back to Tempe Az where he found someone to loan him money to restart a business and make the Carribean.

The book jumps ahead to '65 after that.

I hope this helps somehow.
LOL, I know she is not the record holder, I wish, she would be a half a million dollar boat. Do you know what year they went broke and got backing, the brothers splitting up may be where the story brings them back together to build 6 boat for General Motors, one building the to of the bubble top rocket, and the other the hull?? Could one of them design the tops and the other design the hulls??? Is there any way you could contact them for me and ask about my hull, and if there was a GM sponsord race team in the late 50's and early 60's. all is helpful. Again, Thank you and everyone who has helped me with this.:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup
 

ctchndltgo200

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my screw up
She is sitting on the original Pearson trailer, vin# JP1505. Boat is titled as "BER 58 HK",Vin# DR684689T. Original title# 8317936835, current Title# 8434839332
It is titled as "BER 58 HM" :grumble: Not HK !!
 

ctchndltgo200

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The big block was taken out at the time it ended its racing career, a 1968 4 bolt, 350 SBC, The earliest one I have ever seen, Jan. on block, feb. on cast iron 4 brl spread bore intake, both to far gone to save, kept the march cast 041X heads off of it.
How long and when did you work for GM? I still have the pistons, one of witch, has a 3/4" piece between the two compretion ring that has been purposly ground out for failure testing, also the same cylender of the head has a hole that was drilled into it then welded up. This motor ran with out missing a beet from 68 till 99 when I bought her and the stingers were bad. Indurence rack test motor maybe??? Should have not been releasted??
 

ctchndltgo200

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I doubt this will help, but I have 2 of Bill Biesemeyer's books titled "The History of Biesemeyer Boats". I received these from Bill personally. In the book there's no mention of Peason Marine specifically. The first guy who helped him with money was Milton Edgar back in '56. In '58 the Biesemeyer brothers built their first all glass 16' boat. They made a few 16's before the company went broke. At this point they were able to borrow money from someone allowing them to move to East McDowell Road in PHX and changed the name to Biesemeyer Plastics. The book doesn't say who the new sponsor was so maybe this is where Pearson was involved (or not).

The book mentions the 125 mph record holding hydro "Wrangler" driven by Jack Pettijohn in '62. The book says Rusty Moved to Texas in 1960 where he sold swimming pool equipment. While their he began the mock up for the Carribean. He loved that word. In '62 he came back to Tempe Az where he found someone to loan him money to restart a business and make the Carribean.

The book jumps ahead to '65 after that.

I hope this helps somehow.
I found one on line, you say there are two of them, what is the difference, I would like to get them both, in 57-58 wich of them designed the tops, and how would have designed this narrow hull like mine?
 

Sharp Shooter

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I found one on line, you say there are two of them, what is the difference, I would like to get them both, in 57-58 wich of them designed the tops, and how would have designed this narrow hull like mine?
1st off these are not high dollar publications. The first one I have was an early version before it was completed. The 2nd is the finished version. There's a few pages in each that aren't in the other.
 

ctchndltgo200

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1st off these are not high dollar publications. The first one I have was an early version before it was completed. The 2nd is the finished version. There's a few pages in each that aren't in the other.
I have the one on the way, only ten bucks. It has to be the second printing, maybe you could post or send me copies of those different pages, the could hold the key for me. Thanks for all the help from you guys here at Riverdaves Place!!!!!!!
 

Sharp Shooter

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Looks like your boat is called a Rocket. Rear fins and the deck matches. Lynn Youngs posted some pics on the PB v-drive forum. :thumbsup
 

ctchndltgo200

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Looks like your boat is called a Rocket. Rear fins and the deck matches. Lynn Youngs posted some pics on the PB v-drive forum. :thumbsup
Am unable to locate the thread with Lynn's pics. I tried Power boats v-drive forum, Performance boats d-drive forum, what am I missing??:(:(
 

Sharp Shooter

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Am unable to locate the thread with Lynn's pics. I tried Power boats v-drive forum, Performance boats d-drive forum, what am I missing??:(:(
The thread is "What Kind of flattie?" started by Old Rigger. The forum is Performance boats and it's in the v-drive section. :cool
 

ctchndltgo200

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The thread is "What Kind of flattie?" started by Old Rigger. The forum is Performance boats and it's in the v-drive section. :cool
I love the mental joisting on here, all joking aside, THANK YOU ALL !!!!!
Brian,:thumbup::thumbup:
:yikes
:boobeyes:
 

ctchndltgo200

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I doubt this will help, but I have 2 of Bill Biesemeyer's books titled "The History of Biesemeyer Boats". I received these from Bill personally. In the book there's no mention of Peason Marine specifically. The first guy who helped him with money was Milton Edgar back in '56. In '58 the Biesemeyer brothers built their first all glass 16' boat. They made a few 16's before the company went broke. At this point they were able to borrow money from someone allowing them to move to East McDowell Road in PHX and changed the name to Biesemeyer Plastics. The book doesn't say who the new sponsor was so maybe this is where Pearson was involved (or not).

The book mentions the 125 mph record holding hydro "Wrangler" driven by Jack Pettijohn in '62. The book says Rusty Moved to Texas in 1960 where he sold swimming pool equipment. While their he began the mock up for the Carribean. He loved that word. In '62 he came back to Tempe Az where he found someone to loan him money to restart a business and make the Carribean.

The book jumps ahead to '65 after that.

I hope this helps somehow.
brothers

I got the history of biesemeyer boats. On page 14 my boat is in the back ground of the bottom picture with race car driver Jim Bryan. Yellow top, baby blue hull, and you can make out the fins on it. The wake in the pic looks like the wake from mine, heavy and rolling until she pops up on plain because of the narrow hull and the radiused sides to match the wide rocket top of the purpose built racing hull . Almost like a new mid-engine wake board boat !!! On you tube there is a 61 on one video and a 58, BOTH HAVE FINS. They both have the same fins as my 58 !!! The brothers never mention Joe Winklepleck, but the " ROCKET ELMONTE CALF." emblem comes up under his name for 57-58.
 

Sharp Shooter

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brothers

I got the history of biesemeyer boats. On page 14 my boat is in the back ground of the bottom picture with race car driver Jim Bryan. Yellow top, baby blue hull, and you can make out the fins on it. The wake in the pic looks like the wake from mine, heavy and rolling until she pops up on plain because of the narrow hull and the radiused sides to match the wide rocket top of the purpose built racing hull . Almost like a new mid-engine wake board boat !!! On you tube there is a 61 on one video and a 58, BOTH HAVE FINS. They both have the same fins as my 58 !!! The brothers never mention Joe Winklepleck, but the " ROCKET ELMONTE CALF." emblem comes up under his name for 57-58.

The pics in my book are definitely not a clear enough pic to see any fins.

I haven't seen the youtube vids.

 

ctchndltgo200

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The pics in my book are definitely not a clear enough pic to see any fins.

I haven't seen the youtube vids.

In the bottom pic, you can clearly make out that it has the distinct point of the end of the fin, others at the same angle show a clear radiious on the stern withe no point. I have looked at mine for years.
 

ctchndltgo200

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The pics in my book are definitely not a clear enough pic to see any fins.

I haven't seen the youtube vids.

Have looked at all the Rocket and Biesemeyer pics and have never found one with the hull mine has, whats up with that? IMG_2014-08-11_09-32-10.jpg IMG_2014-08-11_09-32-28.jpg IMG_2014-08-11_09-32-16.jpg
 

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If you are going to restore this boat you definitely have your hands full... Best of luck and lets hope that you post a build thread so so we can watch all the progress:thumbup::thumbup:

Steve
 

ctchndltgo200

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If you are going to restore this boat you definitely have your hands full... Best of luck and lets hope that you post a build thread so so we can watch all the progress:thumbup::thumbup:

Steve
I had it for sale, but no takers and winter is here so I think I will redo it. All I am lacking to do this is Engine, Tranny. All the hard parts are there for a small block, so,a 406 and a turbo 350 tranny. The hull is actually ready to do a little frinish sanding and one patch, you can see the old fiberglass bondo spot on the stern. :thumbup: And a new pair of stringers, interior, and paint, there is actually not much work on the trailer needed.

Question: Have you ever seen a rocket or a biesemeyer with this nerrow hull design?,They all go striaght down straight over.
 

ctchndltgo200

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If you are going to restore this boat you definitely have your hands full... Best of luck and lets hope that you post a build thread so so we can watch all the progress:thumbup::thumbup:

Steve

I took 11 coats of bottom paint off, and about 9 coats of autonotive paint off the top. I even polished the brass about 5 years ago. I have had the boat since 1997. ran her 4 times and realised the stringers were cruballing to I tore her down.
 

ctchndltgo200

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The pics in my book are definitely not a clear enough pic to see any fins.

I haven't seen the youtube vids.

:thumbup::thumbup:She is a 1958 Joe Winkelpleck 16' Rocket !! It's real, right down to the "Rocket Marine" shaft log, origanal racing and wip struts, The rudder and drain hole were origanally off set to the left side for circle racing. She had thru transome cavetation plate actavation rods. In 1968 it was redone as a stab-n-steer play ski boat.

I think I will take the winter and do some work on her.:D:D
 

Sharp Shooter

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:thumbup::thumbup:She is a 1958 Joe Winkelpleck 16' Rocket !! It's real, right down to the "Rocket Marine" shaft log, origanal racing and wip struts, The rudder and drain hole were origanally off set to the left side for circle racing. She had thru transome cavetation plate actavation rods. In 1968 it was redone as a stab-n-steer play ski boat.

I think I will take the winter and do some work on her.:D:D
Cool! Keep us posted on the project!:thumbup:
 
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