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rivermobster

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Me and my friend, driving to the river on rice road late one night...

We were past the shoe fence, but not yet to where you bear left, and then go over the railroad tracks...

We are both kinda watching a purpleish light, right where the road bears left...

As we get closer, the light hauls ass to the left of us, kinda following where the road would go. But when I say hauls ass, I mean lightning speed. It was gone in the blink of an eye.

That was maybe 40 years ago now. We still talk about it every so often.
 

pronstar

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Tons of interviews and speeches by Avi Loeb, who is a professor at, and was previously the head, of the Astrophysics Department at Harvard.

He has a balanced perspective that I find fascinating.

Here’s just a listen. I’ve spent hours listening to his presentations.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
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Uncle Dave

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Me and my friend, driving to the river on rice road late one night...

We were past the shoe fence, but not yet to where you bear left, and then go over the railroad tracks...

We are both kinda watching a purpleish light, right where the road bears left...

As we get closer, the light hauls ass to the left of us, kinda following where the road would go. But when I say hauls ass, I mean lightning speed. It was gone in the blink of an eye.

That was maybe 40 years ago now. We still talk about it every so often.

Could you tell if it accelerated from a stop or was it already moving?

Non newtonian flight characteristics separate the stuff we make vs what they make. Although theoretically we are getting pretty good.

In a few of my experiences I've witnessed acceleration so fast if you blinked you'd miss it and even if you didnt it was so fast it was barely perceptible as if just on the edge of simply vanishing.
 

Christopher Lucero

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or it could simply be 'ball lightning', a plasma sphere of ionized air & ozone that is encapsulated by its own electrical charge repelling the (un-ionized natural) atmospheric molecules around it.
 

Uncle Dave

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I found the tic tac encounter most intriguing.
Although “gimbal” and “go fast” were excellent video representations.

Tic Tac was just stunning in its breadth.
The statements credited to the submarine tracking after its submersion sets it apart because it was all military witness.
I don’t remember the numbers but it seems like they said the craft was doing like 110 knots underwater?
Then transferred back to aerial flight, as it were.
They lost contact as it went south into offshore Mexican air space.
Did you see Elizondos follow up in Mexico where he spoke with residents and fisherman at the coordinates where the craft terminated contact?
They said it’s standard fare to see these craft going in and out of the water.

To me, it’s incredible that people still argue about ufos.
They are as real and true as anything else we know and see.
They have ALWAYS been here. They are why we exist.
They don’t look like us...we look like them.
These particular craft displayed transmedium flight capabilities, Space, atmosphere, water.

The SPIE 1 Aegis radar that protects the carrier from incoming anything first caught these objects at the edge of space.

One report says 60K another 100K - decended to sea level in 1 second and stopped before entering the water.


With the government finally cracking its silence after nearly a hundred years of competent testimony became credible overnight.

it no longer matters what individuals "think" the cats out of the bag.
 

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or it could simply be 'ball lightning', a plasma sphere of ionized air & ozone that is encapsulated by its own electrical charge repelling the unionized atmospheric molecules around it.
Ive seen ball lightning, hit the ground roll some distance and blow up a tree on my grandparents farm. Its very strange indeed.

There are likely many sightings that have been ball lightning.

It doenst make right hand turns from straight flight at 10K miles an hour or come to a complete stop from 10K miles an hour, zigzag, or ping pong.
 

Christopher Lucero

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t doenst make right hand turns from straight flight at 10K miles an hour or come to a complete stop from 10K miles an hour, zigzag, or ping pong.
while I respect your perspective, it is perspective that determines "straight" or "curve" or "stop" or 'disappear'. It is all a matter of where you are located relative to the motion of the object itself. observing the object move away from you at high speed will make it seem to 'disappear', likewise, ball lightning is subject to magnetic fields of the earth more than anything, and thus will be driven by some very powerful natural universal features of geomagnetism...those are some planetary scale forces that will do weird things - zigzag or ping pong would be perspective of observation as well...watching an object vacillate/oscillate from the end-on perspective will make it seem to move rapidly back and forth, but watching it from the tangent or perpendicular will make it seem to zigzag.
 

Uncle Dave

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while I respect your perspective, it is perspective that determines "straight" or "curve" or "stop" or 'disappear'. It is all a matter of where you are located relative to the motion of the object itself. observing the object move away from you at high speed will make it seem to 'disappear', likewise, ball lightning is subject to magnetic fields of the earth more than anything, and thus will be driven by some very powerful natural universal features of geomagnetism...those are some planetary scale forces that will do weird things - zigzag or ping pong would be perspective of observation as well...watching an object vacillate/oscillate from the end-on perspective will make it seem to move rapidly back and forth, but watching it from the tangent or perpendicular will make it seem to zigzag.
I always enjoy good dialog.

Has anyone recorded ball lightning on radar, or seen it persist for lengthy durations 10-90 min, or travel upwards from ground to sky, through water or into space perform complex maneuvers like following other craft?

Has anyone seen these characteristic not in a storm, but in a total clear day/ night absent any other forms of weather?

Agree on perspective an object can accelerate directly toward or away from you an appear to be hovering or standing still.

Whether a turn is left or right is always perspective based, but nature almost never makes a square turn or instant 180 degree direction changes from any perspective direction.
 
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Christopher Lucero

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I always enjoy good dialog
me too. are we going to have one here? I mean, I am not an astrophysicist, and I admit your points are negating to the hypothesis.

My hypothesis is a possible alternative explanation of a known phenomenon that we do not fully understand compared to the one you (apparently) support...

one we also do not understand (Little green men). I feel your hypothesis offers much less evidence in our physical understanding of the universe.

TO wit: SETI has spent 40 years searching for other signs of extraterrestrial life and so far zilch.

comparatively, ball lightning - as you witnessed yourself - is real. I have seen it a few times...one of them landed near me when we were camping out near Adelanto in the 80's. It smelled like ozone after it dissipated...and it did just that...dissipated...no explosion, no fire or threat...it just sort of burst like a bubble.

I side with the one with more evidence, against the one with mere suspicion.

Has anyone recorded ball lightning on radar, or seen it persist for lengthy durations 10-90 min, or travel upwards from ground to sky, through water or into space perform complex maneuvers like following other craft?
Obviously I believe that each of the incidents of objects seen visually and captured via radar are in fact ball lightning or some similar atmospheric phenomenon. I feel like this is why the navy is not shy about admitting the footage is real...it is not a threat and not unexplained.
Respectfully, C Lucero
 
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pronstar

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It’s pretty incredible when you consider the number of astronauts, from many countries but especially the US, who have publicly claimed that they’ve seen UFO’s.

If you just search YouTube for “astronaut UFO” you’ll see tons of video interviews and whatnot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

Uncle Dave

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Non emotional dialog here? It happens but its rare.


Ball lightning is real, its weird, and its likely mistaken for "extraterrestrial" often by those jumping to conclusions without thinking through the options.


Evidence is an interesting thing - who is an expert, or credible and even if they are did they go through the options?
I do not believe the nimitz carrier group would mistake ball lightning for something else.
The aegis radar tracked dozens of objects for significant durations.
I do not believe Dave Fravor chased ball lightning that outmaneuvered him then accelerated away from him at incalculable speeds.

The Lantirn pod that tracked the " go fast" artifact showed it having a temperature colder than the surrounding ocean - ball lighting or any plasma based phenomena would NOT be cold.

The US military would have likely LOVED to blame whatever they could on ball lightning, swamp gas, mass illusion, but that simply wouldn't hold up under any kind of scrutiny.
 

Christopher Lucero

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there is a lot to unpack. I feel like there are too many... The suspicion of expertise, the belief systems we all develop, our trust schema, naval assessments of tracked objects, the supposed temperature of a plasma phenomenon that is an interaction with the atmosphere itself.

I am respectfully going to decline to dissemble the positions. it would insult you by questioning your beliefs, and I would insult myself by violating a libertarian principle I like through not allowing a man his own mind, his own beliefs. I choose to respect your position, and I agree with your right to assert it, to possess it, and to advocate for it.

but I do not believe it. peace to you.
 
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was thatguy

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These particular craft displayed transmedium flight capabilities, Space, atmosphere, water.

The SPIE 1 Aegis radar that protects the carrier from incoming anything first caught these objects at the edge of space.

One report says 60K another 100K - decended to sea level in 1 second and stopped before entering the water.


With the government finally cracking its silence after nearly a hundred years of competent testimony became credible overnight.

it no longer matters what individuals "think" the cats out of the bag.
Exactly. Great post.
If I recall he is the one that then directed the flight to that coordinate?
And like other incidents, the operator says the men in black showed up and took all the shit.

But the smoking gun above all of it is protocol.
I’m sure you watched Elizondos show.
The most damning evidence to me is the fact that none of this was included or revealed in excersize briefings. lol

Some say that it’s terrestrial craft that is kept secret from the entire command to evaluate response and engagement.
But as the one ex military commander stated there is no fucking way trillions of dollars of defense assets are going to be risked without anyone being briefed...and if so heads would roll.

In all these incidents, Tic tac/ gimbal/ go fast in particular, the engagements are basically ignored by command. They don’t want to hear about it.
With the Atlantic excersize and gimbal, the flight commander said the saw these things literally every day for a month. He said gimbal was sort of the lead craft and other, square shaped craft, trailed behind out of frame. He said they’d compare sightings every night.
That’s the reason Elizondo resigned from ATIP and walked it up the hill, as you know.
Having unidentified craft with this sort of capabilities a stones throw from the capital seemed wrong to him.
 
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Uncle Dave

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there is a lot to unpack in your assertions. I feel like there are too many... The suspicion of expertise, the belief systems we all develop, our trust schema, naval assessments of tracked objects, the supposed temperature of a plasma phenomenon that is an interaction with the atmosphere itself.

I am respectfully going to decline to dissemble the positions. it would insult you by questioning your beliefs, and I would insult myself by violating a libertarain principle I like through not allowing a man his own mind, his own beliefs. I choose to respect your position, and I agree with your right to assert it, to possess it, and to advocate for it.

but I do not believe it. peace to you.

I appreciate the rare " agree to disagree without being disagreeable" position. Thanks.

With the Nimitz encounter I've not presented "my" assertions at, but simply retold evidence thats already been presented by the actors involved and others analyzing the situation. I recommend investigating on you own and would enjoy hearing about any conclusions you might come to after doing so.
 

was thatguy

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It’s pretty incredible when you consider the number of astronauts, from many countries but especially the US, who have publicly claimed that they’ve seen UFO’s.

If you just search YouTube for “astronaut UFO” you’ll see tons of video interviews and whatnot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I especially like the NASA feeds where the astronauts block the ufos from the camera eye during EVA’s
There’s lots of them. It’s common knowledge.

I don’t waste a lot of time trying to convince people. I think my interest is better served moving forward than trying to drag people along into reality.
 

Uncle Dave

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Exactly. Great post.
If I recall he is the one that then directed the flight to that coordinate?
And like other incidents, the operator says the men in black showed up and took all the shit.

But the smoking gun above all of it is protocol.
I’m sure you watched Elizondos show.
The most damning evidence to me is the fact that none of this was included or revealed in excersize briefings. lol

Some say that it’s terrestrial craft that is kept secret from the entire command to evaluate response and engagement.
But as the one ex military commander stated there is no fucking way trillions of dollars of defense assets are going to be risked without anyone being briefed...and if so heads would roll.

In all these incidents, Tic tac/ gimbal/ go fast in particular, the engagements are basically ignored by command. They don’t want to hear about it.
With the Atlantic excersize and gimbal, the flight commander said the saw these things literally every day for a month. He said him a was sort of the lead craft and other, square shaped craft, trailed behind out of frame. He said they’d compare sightibgs
That’s the reason Elizondo resigned from ATIP and walked it up the hill, as you know.
Having unidentified craft with this sort of capabilities a stones throw from the capital seemed wrong to him.
I doubt we would hazard our own people and equipment testing our own inventory - but one never knows.

Whats more plausible - that an omnipotent being that alternates unpredictably between kindness and rage created our world an the universe itself in a week 10K years ago.

Or that we were put here from explorers or settler from somewhere else?

Both are pretty tough to buy into.
 

Uncle Dave

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I especially like the NASA feeds where the astronauts block the ufos from the camera eye during EVA’s
There’s lots of them. It’s common knowledge.

I don’t waste a lot of time trying to convince people. I think my interest is better served moving forward than trying to drag people along into reality.
Individuals that do not believe now no longer have our government backing that position.

Im an extremely skeptical guy, I get it though. (some would use the terms old school and stubborn in regards to me )
 

was thatguy

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I can’t find any reports of ball lightning doing >100 knots underwater.
 

Uncle Dave

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I especially like the NASA feeds where the astronauts block the ufos from the camera eye during EVA’s
There’s lots of them. It’s common knowledge.

I don’t waste a lot of time trying to convince people. I think my interest is better served moving forward than trying to drag people along into reality.
Im a bit more skeptical of these, but there is no doubt the camera gets killed at odd times and intervals often with SOEMTHING occurring at the edge of the focal range.

Im more interested in Robert Bigelows 60 minutes interview. Hes spent more money than any individual on the subject and cares little about how his position is perceived.
 

was thatguy

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Individuals that do not believe now no longer have our government backing that position.

Im an extremely skeptical guy, I get it though. (some would use the terms old school and stubborn in regards to me )
I consider myself the definition of a skeptic.
It’s why I don’t buy into the things we are taught from birth.
Others see me as a conspiracy theorist (god I hate that term), but to me the conspiracy is our life long brainwashing.

It seem obvious that this planet is inhabited by creations.
I don’t like to get too deep because it might offend my religious friends.
But, to me, mysticizing our existence through this bewildering concept of religion seems crazy when all biblical evidence suggests the exact opposite.
We are DNA creations.
Noah was like 600 years old when he catalogued dna for preservation.
Enoch, his great grandfather, was 450 or so at death.
His books are excluded from King James as you know.

Satans great crime was giving us knowledge we were never supposed to know. We were designed as inferior creatures, but with help from the fallen and others throughout time immemorial we slipped our leashes.
In every so called mythology superior beings are punished for helping us...every single time.
Earth has different races, created by different entities for different purposes.
 

Uncle Dave

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where is this from? never saw that before.
I dont want to put words in anyones mouth but this was associated with the Nimitz story.

A carrier battle group always has at least 2 sub components and when the object descended into the ocean the subs began tracking it.

(so the story goes)

The aegis cruisers picked up the Objects (multiple) at between 60 and 100K feet they " popped onto radar" just like they would look for a ballistic threat.

at least one descended to seal level in 1 second.

One submerged and was tracked until it left the water.


Heres a standalone story on the subject
 
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Uncle Dave

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I consider myself the definition of a skeptic.
It’s why I don’t buy into the things we are taught from birth.
Others see me as a conspiracy theorist (god I hate that term), but to me the conspiracy is our life long brainwashing.

It seem obvious that this planet is inhabited by creations.
I don’t like to get too deep because it might offend my religious friends.
But, to me, mysticizing our existence through this bewildering concept of religion seems crazy when all biblical evidence suggests the exact opposite.
We are DNA creations.
Noah was like 600 years old when he catalogued dna for preservation.
Enoch, his great grandfather, was 450 or so at death.
His books are excluded from King James as you know.

Satans great crime was giving us knowledge we were never supposed to know. We were designed as inferior creatures, but with help from the fallen and others throughout time immemorial we slipped our leashes.
In every so called mythology superior beings are punished for helping us...every single time.
Earth has different races, created by different entities for different purposes.
Not a buyer into Religion at all, but believe all men have a right to worship as they see fit.

I find it interesting that Enoch, and Elija both "ascended to heaven" without dying. I think " on whirlwinds" If I recall the passage.
 

was thatguy

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Im a bit more skeptical of these, but there is no doubt the camera gets killed at odd times and intervals often with SOEMTHING occurring at the edge of the focal range.

Im more interested in Robert Bigelows 60 minutes interview. Hes spent more money than any individual on the subject and cares little about how his position is perceived.
Yeah I dig Bigelows interviews.
And that’s the thing, these people at the front edge are not all quacks.
These are learned men, sometimes with impeccable military and too secret career credentials.
Their resumes are stellar.

Element 115 episode on Ancient Aliens is remarkable. Bob Lazar might finally be validated now that the revelation is under way.
 

was thatguy

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Not a buyer into Religion at all, but believe all men have a right to worship as they see fit.

I find it interesting that Enoch, and Elija both "ascended to heaven" without dying. I think " on whirlwinds" If I recall the passage.
Agree 100%

As creatures of awareness we require some sort of faith to continue while being aware of our own mortality.
It’s a built in mechanism to keep us working...which was our original design.

I’m of the opinion that there is a “God” component that makes “life” possible.
I firmly believe the Bible and all it contains.
I have zero doubt that Jesus was everything the Bible says and more.
Where I part ways with Christianity is the interpretation of all this.
I don’t believe in magic. Everything in our history book is literal, not mystical.
But that’s just me, and being human I’m as full of shit as anyone! Lol
 

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Im torn on Lazar.

115 exists and has nothing like the properties Lazar described, but that doenst mean some other element will not - he may have just got the number wrong.

What I do find fascinating is that one of the objects we tracked follows the Lazar flight pattern (belly vs side travel) the object rotated and after rotation accelerated from track instantaneously.

His explanation of the construction of the element 115 fuel triangle on the Korbell special was fascinating.

Lazar has told contradicting versions - "I saw no damage" - "I saw a big hole in one"
 

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Every time I see Lori Lightfoot I feel compelled to announce - " Its a trap".

The only place more messed up than California is Illinios, and possibly New York.

To see what has become of a formerly great city is a shame.
 
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Christopher Lucero

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Heres a standalone story on the subject
thanks. that was pretty level headed assessment of the account.
In college I had one course on underwater sound. The most interesting thing was how the professor (a navy guy) explained how thermoclines could potentially provide for channels that would enable a kind of 'superhighway for sound' underwater. I feel like the typical high speed sound that sonar bubbleheads witness are likely artifacts from thermoclines that they willfully ignore as nonthreatening, since nothing ever comes of them.
 

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Obviously I believe that each of the incidents of objects seen visually and captured via radar are in fact ball lightning or some similar atmospheric phenomenon. I feel like this is why the navy is not shy about admitting the footage is real...it is not a threat and not unexplained.
Respectfully, C Lucero

Perhaps.

Of all traits previously described selective radar availability was also observed with the same object being trackable then actively jamming Fravor.

ON threat vs no threat - I've read that active jamming like active sonar is considered an act of war, but Im not certain if thats real. Fravor says it is, but seems extremely calm about it.

I will also respectfully (and with an open mind) take the position that ball lightning does not possess the ability to selectively make itself visible to radar.

.
 

Uncle Dave

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thanks. that was pretty level headed assessment of the account.
In college I had one course on underwater sound. The most interesting thing was how the professor (a navy guy) explained how thermoclines could potentially provide for channels that would enable a kind of 'superhighway for sound' underwater. I feel like the typical high speed sound that sonar bubbleheads witness are likely artifacts from thermoclines that they willfully ignore as nonthreatening, since nothing ever comes of them.
I've read similar on thermoclines, it seem they very well could present some kind of return, although I would suspect present a very different signature on the gear, but perhaps not.

Im going to take the position that our guys would ultimately sniff that out especially if 2 subs were tracking the same target, These guys are damm good at what they do.
 

Christopher Lucero

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I've read similar on thermoclines, it seem they very well could present some kind of return, although I would suspect present a very different signature on the gear, but perhaps not.

Im going to take the position that our guys would ultimately sniff that out especially if 2 subs were tracking the same target, These guys are damm good at what they do.
Prof also said that and demonstrated that they were sometimes effective barriers to detection. I think this even got into a movie (based on a Tom Clancy book) with Sean Connery in it called "the Hunt for Red October"
 

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I especially like the NASA feeds where the astronauts block the ufos from the camera eye during EVA’s
There’s lots of them. It’s common knowledge.

I don’t waste a lot of time trying to convince people. I think my interest is better served moving forward than trying to drag people along into reality.
Exactly I could care less what anybody else thinks as far as I'm concerned the less people that know the better
 

Uncle Dave

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if you would explain this more I could digress...I don't want confrontation though, so, please, I humbly submit...
no confrontation here, just a couple of guys talking.

The article describes this.

The object was able to alter between being tracked and jamming - selective availability would be one description of that.
 
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Uncle Dave

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Prof also said that and demonstrated that they were sometimes effective barriers to detection. I think this even got into a movie (based on a Tom Clancy book) with Sean Connery in it called "the Hunt for Red October"
I can see that working when passive, but I cant see it stopping an active ping, that said Im no submariner.
 

Christopher Lucero

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stopping an active ping
not stopping...it distorts the reflection, sends it off to elsewhere, distorts the freq of the returned signal. that said, I am not a retired bubblehead nor a radar nor sonar guy. I was taught the theory and I worked on designs of phased array and RF/UHF radar on the civilian side for MIL customers.
 

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roger that, thx

OK, you mentioned Aegis as the tracking system. Is that the only one tracking or were there other phased array and/or other RF/UHF radar verifying?
apparently multiple Aegis as well as independent fighters, and IR pods some of the fighters were carrying the Raytheon Lantern pod being called out specifically.

Seemingly everyone in the carrier battle group looking saw the same thing although they didnt specifically call out standard non phased array radar.
 

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not stopping...it distorts the reflection, sends it off to elsewhere, distorts the freq of the returned signal. that said, I am not a retired bubblehead nor a radar nor sonar guy. I was taught the theory and I worked on designs of phased array and RF/UHF radar on the civilian side for MIL customers.
I can see how how it could, but would think 2 subs could figure it out working together - but Im no one.

Sounds like a cool gig.

Way back on the late 80's I sold commercial marine radars for a while and the place I worked repaired them .
Its how I ended up with Furuno on my boat vs anything else.
 

Christopher Lucero

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apparently multiple Aegis as well as independent fighters, and IR pods some of the fighters were carrying the Raytheon Lantern pod being called out specifically.

Seemingly everyone in the carrier battle group looking saw the same thing although they didnt specifically call out standard non phased array radar.
thanks. Multiple verification multiple bands fortify the story. IDK. It makes sense that a plasma could potentially descend quickly and hover above the water. It may not survive a subsurface pressure change, so any direct evidence that it went underwater would be much more convincing...i did not see that anywhere. You and me both have personally witnessed the plasma sphere, and they are spooky.

Movement and speed are relative things, as I explained before, and things 'faster' or 'agile' to our (limited) senses befuddle our sense of superiority inasmuch as we have become the top predator on this blue planet.

we humans tend to explain things we don't understand as if they are intelligent when they seem to befuddle us, when they seem to show superior traits or capabilities

just because the phenomenon acts in ways we cannot explain does not mean we need to treat them as 'smarter than us'...if they are and they have not brought harm, then let's just be nice little farm creatures and not provoke them. Maybe they will treat us even better.

my 2 cents
 

rivermobster

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Could you tell if it accelerated from a stop or was it already moving?

Non newtonian flight characteristics separate the stuff we make vs what they make. Although theoretically we are getting pretty good.

In a few of my experiences I've witnessed acceleration so fast if you blinked you'd miss it and even if you didnt it was so fast it was barely perceptible as if just on the edge of simply vanishing.
It was totally still, and for awhile. We were wondering, what that weird light (at what looked like) at the railroad crossing was.

And then in a flash, it bugged out.
 

was thatguy

living in a cage of fear
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thanks. that was pretty level headed assessment of the account.
In college I had one course on underwater sound. The most interesting thing was how the professor (a navy guy) explained how thermoclines could potentially provide for channels that would enable a kind of 'superhighway for sound' underwater. I feel like the typical high speed sound that sonar bubbleheads witness are likely artifacts from thermoclines that they willfully ignore as nonthreatening, since nothing ever comes of them.
I think that you, like many, look for ways to explain away oddities.
That’s a good thing, I actually do the same.
But there is that percentage of stuff that can not be explained away as any sort of data anomalies.
The Nimitz incident (tic-tac) was in the pacific back in 2004.
Gimbal and Go Fast were Atlantic coast incidents in 2017 I think? Maybe 2018.
These are hard videos. declassified and confirmed by the navy as legit.
Luis Elizondo was the head of ATTIP (Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program) for like 10 years or so.
He’s never claimed these to be extra terrestrial, but resigned because his hands were tied as a high level gov employee.
By resigning he was able to advance his concerns that these are a possible threat that is being ignored...or worse...not even acknowledge
This is a big deal as it represents a change in long running policy of denial.
Basically the revelation of what has been going on since the beginning of humanity is being validated.
The wait time is over.

It may be difficult for some to accept, and the tendency for those people is to search for and engineer ways to explain it away.
It’s real, don’t waste time at that station.
 
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