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Ungrateful employees

Joker

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I just want to know where the company owes everyone everything attitude came from.
In my case , i believe i created it by taking care of him well beyond what I should have but my thought process was he makes us good money and is reliable and I can’t afford to lose him.
From this point moving forward, I’ll continue to pay 8 for 6 worked, but paid days off are over. I’m thinking the backlash should start soon.
 

WYRD

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You don't pay time off for major holidays?
We don't because it's a collectively bargained labor agreement. Guys get pissed off about it but what they don't understand is the price of their holiday is built in to their negotiated labor rate. The negotiated labor rate is also based off of 1,500 hour work year so there's a higher compensation for that is intended to pay for vacation for full time employees. That seems to be quickly forgotten as well. In my experience anything you do with Christmas bonuses and or perks to the employees have a very short appreciation span and quickly becomes the new expectation for the following year.
 
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WYRD

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In my case , i believe i created it by taking care of him well beyond what I should have but my thought process was he makes us good money and is reliable and I can’t afford to lose him.
From this point moving forward, I’ll continue to pay 8 for 6 worked, but paid days off are over. I’m thinking the backlash should start soon.
Take one of the higher-ranking employees that's the worst offender and make a public example out of him at the other employees are aware of. Then make your policy changes immediately after that, that's the only way you're going to get respect out of long-term employees that have been set in their ways.
 

Done-it-again

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We don't because it's a collectively bargained labor agreement. Guys get pissed off about it but what they don't understand is the price of their holiday is built in to their negotiated labor rate. The negotiated labor rate is also based off of 1,500 hour work week so there's a higher compensation for that is intended to pay for vacation for full time employees. That seems to be quickly forgotten as well. In my experience anything you do with Christmas bonuses and or perks to the employees have a very short appreciation span and quickly becomes the new expectation for the following year.
This seems more like Union labor, then I can see the difference. As a non union labor we pay the major holidays and typically a week off during Christmas to New Years.

I would agree with bonuses, if you do it once, twice its expected all the time.. I'll do what I can this year though it wont be much but it will be something...
 

LargeOrangeFont

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My out of state team does a better job at taking their vacation. Any state that is use it or lose it works out ok. California peeps get it rolled over (up to 1 1/2 what they accrue a year). The long tenured people seem to like to have some money in the “bank”.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens on the next survey. We’ve been back full time in the office since July. The admins / support are supposed to come back in mid-Jan. My admin has been with me for a dozen years. She’s already hinting she can’t come back in because she has kids. A bunch of others are saying the same. Our main office opens up at the same time. Estimates are as high as 25% to 30% of people will quit.

Retention is going to be a big problem. My company has unlimited PTO, it takes all that BS of rollover and accrual off the table at least, and takes it off the companies books.
 
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Singleton

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Retention is going to be a big problem. My company has unlimited PTO, it takes all that BS of rollover and accrual off the table at least, and takes it off the companies books.

I had that, but when our bonus structure was changed (gates added), I was moved to an OT eligible job band. Same level as the unlimited PTO, but allowed me to makeup the lost bonus plus some more via OT. I now have, base, bonus plus OT, the only downside is a limit on PTO. Average more vacation days now then when I had unlimited for some strange reason.
 
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LargeOrangeFont

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I had that, but when our bonus structure was changed (gates added), I was moved to an OT eligible job band. Same level as the unlimited PTO, but allowed me to makeup the lost bonus plus some more via OT. I now have, base, bonus plus OT, the only downside is a limit on PTO. Average more vacation days now then when I had unlimited for some strange reason.

Most of the market research seems to show that as a whole, those with unlimited PTO seem to use less of it.
 

Melloyellovector

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How bout this jewymcjewface
Maybe your taking it to much to heart. Maybe since you treat him so well normally, like a friend, that maybe he was half joking calling you a Jew. Why so offended? Is being called a Jew over the top offensive, lol. Relax . Likely if you told him he hurt you in the feels he’d apologize and say he appreciates the pay.
I learned long ago. No work no pay. i can’t even remember how long that’s been. What I do/did is always have home projects in my pocket. Either my homes, families homes, side job shit I’d never normally do. Idle time between jobs guess where y’all going. Iv had my guys clean my screens and windows. Iv had them test every sprinkler nozzle and adjust, pressure wash roofs, lol, It’s dumb. But they‘re still working, still getting paid, and dumb shit you’d never want to do is done by others. It’s a win win. If they say they don’t want to do, then the option is go home and earn zero. Otherwise get to polishing bitches.
Instead of being bitter get creative and keep the guys that earn you money busy all the time regardless what it is.
 

Flyinbowtie

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Joker...

This is a really sick situation. I never owned a business, but I supervised a lot of people over the years in my field. A stunt like this would never be forgotten, and I would be looking at whatever work agreement you have with him and begin preparing the process by which he leaves your business. Hunt like crazy for a replacement and get that person in a training mode asap. This is gonna take time and I know it isn't as easy as it sounds...but get the ball rolling. A suitable replacement is priority #1.
Any other employees who saw this happen, and saw his comments to you know he is an ass.
make note of who they are. If you really think it is worth the effort talk to a labor attorney familiar with your field of work and run it by him.
Develop a game plan, and just get it rolling.
Just my2 cents worth.
 

Joker

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How bout this jewymcjewface
Maybe your taking it to much to heart. Maybe since you treat him so well normally, like a friend, that maybe he was half joking calling you a Jew. Why so offended? Is being called a Jew over the top offensive, lol. Relax . Likely if you told him he hurt you in the feels he’d apologize and say he appreciates the pay.
I learned long ago. No work no pay. i can’t even remember how long that’s been. What I do/did is always have home projects in my pocket. Either my homes, families homes, side job shit I’d never normally do. Idle time between jobs guess where y’all going. Iv had my guys clean my screens and windows. Iv had them test every sprinkler nozzle and adjust, pressure wash roofs, lol, It’s dumb. But they‘re still working, still getting paid, and dumb shit you’d never want to do is done by others. It’s a win win. If they say they don’t want to do, then the option is go home and earn zero. Otherwise get to polishing bitches.
Instead of being bitter get creative and keep the guys that earn you money busy all the time regardless what it is.
This has nothing to do with feelings. maybe over the top would be him telling me yesterday that a weeks vacation is 7 working days. This was no joking matter.
Do you think i was being bitter offering him 20 an hour to sit at home? I don’t but now i am with a generous offer of zero dollars.
 

DaveC

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Totally understand that, I meant that if it's part of a contract as was my case. I prefer to work on performance based pay vs just a salary. My bonus was a % of net spelled out in increasing tiers in my contract..and we had a banner year. It was kind of a clark Griswold moment...I was that pissed when I saw it. I turned in my mandatory 90 day notice that I was pulling my license on that Friday when I submitted my resignation. Short version is the guy responsible was manipulating numbers of divisions to pad his bonus. 3 division directors as we were called resigned within weeks over it. There is a reason I back up my books/QBO/excels and bank statements weekly if not daily. I turned in a file to the controller and the shit hit the fan. He got sued by the firm after the fact for that and other issues and was forced to resign less than a year later.
Ummmmm…. You guys got issues…….kind of not the same thing….

I am being nice Saying issues.


jeezus…
 

RiverDave

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Same at my company. Employee satisfaction is down compared to pre-Covid surveys.
I sit on the committee that gets tasked to come up with ideas to address issues communicated in the survey.
Had a call last week and I said, “we can’t give everyone a raise (raises are earned through performance), so if your idea is to just pay everyone more, please delete that idea and come up with another one”. That did not go over well with other committee members and they are trying to get me removed from the committee. Those that want me gone are meeting with the CEO staff member who sponsors the committee this week to ask that I be removed. I already talked to the sponsor and told them, “I will not resign from the committee, I was voted to be on this committee by my peers in sales engineering for 2 years and I plan on honoring that commitment”.

My ideas that the committee will not present to CEO staff (did not get enough votes).
1 - remove the mandatory PTO week between Christmas and New Years. Replace with a requirement that during the holiday season (starting with Thanksgiving week, ending the friday after New Year), all employees are required to take 40hrs of PTO. Accomplishes the same goal, but gives the employees flexibility over when it is taken.
2 - after 4 years of service, your PTO accrual is apx 6.5 hours per pay period (18 days). Non-OT positions have unlimited PTO for people managers or equal level individual contributors. I stated we should allow those OT eligible and non-unlimited to accrue more PTO - after 7 years (21 days) after 10 years (25 days).
3 - offer a cash out on PTO. Max PTO you can carry is 144 hours. Allow all employees to cash out PTO when they take PTO. Take 4 hours PTO, you can cash out 4 hours PTO.
4 - instead of having a ‘day of volunteering’ for each office. Give each employee 16hr of volunteer hours and allow them to use those hours for volunteer activities they support

If I was to leave the committee, it will be due to folks only thinking money matters and not finding ways to rewards folks outside of pay raises and training days :)

Honestly I think you should head up the committee after reading that.
 

Singleton

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Honestly I think you should head up the committee after reading that.
Appreciate that.
Learned long ago if you make and keep your employees happy, they perform better. If anything this committee is reinforcing my thought process of leaving the role I am in and getting back into a people leadership role. Call me crazy, but after 7 years of being an individual contributor, I miss growing teams. Nothing better then watching your team members grow and taking on new positions (even if that means they are leaving the team). However doing that move, equals a huge shift in work life balance (more work, more travel, less fun with family) and commuting to the office again (Not sure I am ready for that).
 

Singleton

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I can't find the clip where he describes stalking in the office terminator style, which we see come true here, but found this gem about him buying the company back.


love that show and House of Lies
 

Melloyellovector

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This has nothing to do with feelings. maybe over the top would be him telling me yesterday that a weeks vacation is 7 working days. This was no joking matter.
Do you think i was being bitter offering him 20 an hour to sit at home? I don’t but now i am with a generous offer of zero dollars.
Lol, fire him or punch him in the face. No reason to walk on eggshells. It’s your company. Be a boss and do what you have to do.
 

Bowtiepower00

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The new work environment absolutely sucks. I was mentored by old school bosses who told you to your face what you were doing right- and wrong- and pulled no punches. Made me a better employee regardless of what I was doing. Today you have to walk on eggshells around these coddled ass employees.

Took my current position to get out of management, and low and behold one of my managers left. Everyone expects me to fill the role. I’ve told them all I took my current position to cut down on stress and extra bullshit in my life.

I’ve explained to all of them, I will move up for the right amount of compensation, but I’m not a smiley- happy/ touchy- feeley boss. Show up and do you job without whining and bullshit and I’ll go out of my way to have your back. If you don’t, might as well leave- I’m not here to coddle you or care about your feelings. Im not an asshole unless I have to be- and I treat everyone equally.

Extending a helping hand to those in need- even if they are exceptional employees- usually ends up biting you in the ass. It’s business- nothing personal. Most employees don’t understand that, regardless of age.
 

coolchange

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Back in the day I got sick for 2 weeks and couldn’t work. Shit pay and no benefits. 2 guys that worked there told the boss “ give him one of my days so I at least had some income that period. They became life friends. He did, at my rate not theirs, piece of shit. 1 raise all the time I was there. Finally found a way out and quit. Oh wait let’s talk, what are they offering you, I’ll match it. Fuck you, now you don’t want me to leave but wasn’t worried about keeping me happy while I was there?
I always went beyond. Unfortunately I still do.
Head of dept strokes out and I pick up the load. No disruption of flow. Other guy retires, just me. COO says you’re due for substantial raise. 2 years and all I get is just a freeze of wages because Wuhan. Off last Friday and lay out the couple of things that need to be done. Nothing. Logistical problem in 3 weeks , what do we do ? I’ll come in on Saturday and handle it. Oh thank you. But a least we moved ahead and did a million dollar up grade before it was funded.
Ya it’s all about shitty employees.
 

paradise

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Back in the day I got sick for 2 weeks and couldn’t work. Shit pay and no benefits. 2 guys that worked there told the boss “ give him one of my days so I at least had some income that period. They became life friends. He did, at my rate not theirs, piece of shit. 1 raise all the time I was there. Finally found a way out and quit. Oh wait let’s talk, what are they offering you, I’ll match it. Fuck you, now you don’t want me to leave but wasn’t worried about keeping me happy while I was there?
I always went beyond. Unfortunately I still do.
Head of dept strokes out and I pick up the load. No disruption of flow. Other guy retires, just me. COO says you’re due for substantial raise. 2 years and all I get is just a freeze of wages because Wuhan. Off last Friday and lay out the couple of things that need to be done. Nothing. Logistical problem in 3 weeks , what do we do ? I’ll come in on Saturday and handle it. Oh thank you. But a least we moved ahead and did a million dollar up grade before it was funded.
Ya it’s all about shitty employees.
Go and talk to them about a raise. They don’t know what you’re thinking.
 

evantwheeler

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Back in the day I got sick for 2 weeks and couldn’t work. Shit pay and no benefits. 2 guys that worked there told the boss “ give him one of my days so I at least had some income that period. They became life friends. He did, at my rate not theirs, piece of shit. 1 raise all the time I was there. Finally found a way out and quit. Oh wait let’s talk, what are they offering you, I’ll match it. Fuck you, now you don’t want me to leave but wasn’t worried about keeping me happy while I was there?
I always went beyond. Unfortunately I still do.
Head of dept strokes out and I pick up the load. No disruption of flow. Other guy retires, just me. COO says you’re due for substantial raise. 2 years and all I get is just a freeze of wages because Wuhan. Off last Friday and lay out the couple of things that need to be done. Nothing. Logistical problem in 3 weeks , what do we do ? I’ll come in on Saturday and handle it. Oh thank you. But a least we moved ahead and did a million dollar up grade before it was funded.
Ya it’s all about shitty employees.

You never get what you dont ask for. The two times i have felt i was pulling way more weight than i was being paid for, i went to my boss and just asked. Both times he gave me exactly what i had in mind, without question. If they cant see the disparity between your value and your compensation, you have a shitty employer. Maybe the comfort of your current job trumps quitting and pursuing more money elsewhere? In my experience (heavy civil construction) the quickest way to drastically increase your compensation is to change employers. I have not received a COL adjustment since 2013, but have increased my salary by taking other jobs and negotiating my employment contracts, and i have seen way over 100% increase in compensation. That came with more responsibility and way more travel, it sounds like youve been doing the same thing but getting nothing but a pat on the back.
 

ChevelleSB406

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You never get what you dont ask for. The two times i have felt i was pulling way more weight than i was being paid for, i went to my boss and just asked. Both times he gave me exactly what i had in mind, without question. If they cant see the disparity between your value and your compensation, you have a shitty employer. Maybe the comfort of your current job trumps quitting and pursuing more money elsewhere? In my experience (heavy civil construction) the quickest way to drastically increase your compensation is to change employers. I have not received a COL adjustment since 2013, but have increased my salary by taking other jobs and negotiating my employment contracts, and i have seen way over 100% increase in compensation. That came with more responsibility and way more travel, it sounds like youve been doing the same thing but getting nothing but a pat on the back.
Those that don't move companies I find are often outpaced in duties vs salary. I have been at my company 11 years and worked from ground up, literally from a fake intern position on a 10 week contract. I had much more qualification and talent than the original position and have been behind ever since. The company on its own would never give the drastic increases it had to, to put me at market rate, let alone an experienced subject matter expert within the company. Anyway, 2 years ago I put it out there to the bosses to look at the going rate to replace me if I leave very soon, and got a 30% bump and doubled my bonus % to 20% cap, still not where I needed to be, but let's start there and let me tune up the resume and certifications. This year I just did the same thing again to them after forwarding some of the headhunter letters as well as job postings and industry guides. Now I am close to what I should be, still room to go, but this is about what my replacement would accept the job for, and take a few years to get up to speed.

I would have gotten neither from the mega corporation without demanding it, why would a farmer buy another horse to pull the wagon if it still makes it to market, no matter how much more load is put on it? Sucky thing about the world.

Also, don't read this as I am super special or irreplaceable, but what I do involves designing software automations, namely in Salesforce, and many have more skill at it than I do, but, knowledge of how the company works in its go to market model, the people involved in all of that, and the developments over the past years all built by myself, that is what takes time to understand if new to the company. The same reality that faces me if I go elsewhere, it will take time to get up to speed.
 
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