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Wake boat wakes

Outdrive1

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You should get rid of Hooters ASAP.
. Hooters is running so good now. That’s about when I sell them.


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NicPaus

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I already upsized. My 22' was inoperable most weekends starting about 5 years ago . My 26' still takes a pounding but has enough freeboard to not sink from them. The days of 18-21' boats are limited.
 
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DUN

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I like to roll up on em at about 70 and launch. 😉😁
Really though I don’t understand how some of you guys run flatter bottom boats and smaller boats in havasu (or the river). If it’s not the roll boaters it’s the wind or just the fact the lake is always packed and rough it seems.
It's like rock crawling on water..
 

RiverDave

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Think ya missed the point. It’s about a captain paying attention to His surroundings. It’s not up to you to decide what boats are on the water. So it’s up to you to make sure your operating YOUR boat safely. Which means sometimes , the captain has to slow to safely operate his boat. Ya can’t take every boat off the water that makes a large wake. I don’t own a wake boat, but I realize it’s just part of boating.
A captain is also responsible for their wake and any damages it causes
 
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MK1MOD0

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A cap again is also responsible for their wake and any damages it causes
Its one thing for a boat to go by a dock and smash it with its wake, that’s a given, it’s a whole other issue to prove the owner of a boat caused you to crash because of his wake. Imagine hitting a cruiser wake at high speed..... we have all seen videos of boats wiping out on them. First thing that will be said is, you were operating your boat in an unsafe manner for the given conditions. unsafe speed. Two very different scenarios.
 

Ragged Edge

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Agree with all that has been said in terms of the Wake Surf phenomenon and it’s effects on water conditions and boat damage.
Been going to Parker since the late 60’s and started driving vdrives there in 73 pulling skiers/knee boards and even inner tubes from semi’s with the brass stem down. Other than boat racing, nearly all of my pleasure boating has been done in Parker since the early 80’s.
While we have kept trailers at Big Bend and Castle Rock all those years, for the last 14 I have been a homeowner in Marina Manor on the AZ side of the River.
We have a launch ramp, 24 slips and a sea wall to support them.
Over the last 5 years with the growing popularity of Wake Surfing and the purpose built boats to support it, our Homeowners Association spends tens of thousands of dollars for ongoing repairs. While higher traffic may contribute to the damage, there is no one that owns docks in Parker or even has a rudimentary Understanding of powerboats and how they perform can refute the damage that is being done to personal property.
But here is the good news...
A simple interpretation of laws already on the books would not ban the boats that have been built or force law enforcement to determine if a “Wake Enhancement Device” is being used...no...a simple common sense decision by any enforcement agency could stop Wake Surfing next weekend...
View attachment 900322
View attachment 900323
There is little doubt, in any sensible opinion, that the “intent” of both of these laws is to eliminate close proximity to exhaust fumes and the chance of carbon monoxide poisoning as well as anyone being towed behind the boat must be no closer than 36 feet for safety reasons.
It certainly is plausible to assume that if the CM law isn’t enough then the minimum tow rope length that is on the books covers not only “Skiers” but all other forms of towables as well. Which would include Surfboards or custom Wake Surf boards as they require a “towrope”
Lake Arrowhead rules very specifically state what is considered a towable but has not included Wake Surf devices at this time.
View attachment 900339
My guess is with the docks on Arrowhead currently being affected, that an addition of Wake Surfing devices to the current list will hopefully be coming soon

Our Homeowners Association is currently discussing how to get current laws enforced and to include how to get the ones one the books clarified.
My hope is there is someone on the boards here that has the wherewithal and knowledge on how to move forward with this will guide us all.
I believe these existing laws give Law Enforcement, if they have the desire, to make all boaters and their personal property safer.
Let’s make this happen!
The way I read the Lake Arrowhead rules for approved towed devices/activities #8, wake surfing is not on the list and as such, not allowed.
 

beaverretriever

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Glad to see MB has remained on the all-around side of the designs unlike many others. The really sad thing is owners and driver's like you and your friends are becoming the minority in that regard.

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MB is using the same hull technology 99% of the manufactures are. It's just a planing hull just like a Malibu, Sanger, Tige or any of the other well known manufactures. Get any of them on plane without ballast and in general they wont make any bigger wake than your average V hull run about or go fast boat.

The only one that really is thinking out of the box in terms of hull technology is Nautique in their displacement hull design on their GS and G series boats. The hull is actually three in one. The front 1/3rd is the ski section and design taken from the Ski series of boats, the middle third is from the wake series design of boats and the rear is all new design for surfing. Depending on where you set your NCRS (Nautique Configurable Running Surface) and speed, it will put you on different spots on the hull to change the shape of the wake or wave from literally very little to three feet high surf waves. The problem is, many people drive around off plane and even without ballast they make huge waves.

I have friends that ski behind a G series. It's not a wake you would want to ski pylons on, but it's average for ripping a few early morning turns with a soft ski. I won't hide the fact the G Series is designed to make a huge wave or wake. That is what they are intended for. But get them up to speed (over 18mph or so) and they flatten out pretty well. You can run the NCRS all the way down and literally pull the transom out of the water so much the wake becomes very minimal.

What I am getting at is, it's not the boats, it's the drivers. It was mentioned earlier in this thread about the gun analogy. Same difference. Wake boats don't make waves, the drivers do. :D

Dry weight on a new Nautique 23 foot Paragon is 7200lbs. However, if you do get it up on plane with no ballast it's wake isn't going to destroy docks or launch flat bottoms in to oblivion. I am not defending the wake boat world, but it all comes down to people being responsible. Unfortunately in this world we are all seeing nobody seems to care about anyone but themselves these days. I personally don't see how taking a huge ass wake boat on Parker could be that fun. I would rather be out in some little cove of a big lake or in the middle of big lake doing my sport. That seems completely dangerous and not fun to be in that traffic trying to surf, ski, tube or wake board.
 

Lavey5150

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<-------Likes stuff that's fast.Unless your Parks Bonifay hucking 50 foot airs.Stop.Surfing waves is for saltwater when it's reeling overhead and you're on a twin fin grabbing rail
and paddle in to get said waves.90% of the douchebags that buy those POS wakeboats that do 40 MPH tops at a cost of Holy Fok, cant huck airs,have too much fireball and redbull vodka in their vanes to even care , or to dump ballast H2O from their buddy trying to ride who couldn't clear a table much less a wake. Rant over. My .02.🤘
 

Dirtbag

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Seriously? It all drivers huh? Your ignorance is deafening. You sound like a Liberal trying to explain why we need to ban the scary black guns. A surf boat is basically like an AR14 with the shoulder thing that goes up. Do you really think an empty wake boat just continually throws a giant wave? Just all the time, breaking our trailers somehow, and plowing along. View attachment 900125



This is 99% of the time just cruising around. It’s no more of a wake than any standard runabout and way less than an overloaded rental toon plowing along on its way to Pirates. Every boat running nose up off plane screws up the water. I was behind “White Lightning”, a twin ob eliminator, and another big deck boat exiting the gorge today and when they all took off at once it sent my boat rocking and rolling through some giant rollers. Did I shake my fist in the air and rant about how all powerboats should be banned? Nope. I pushed through, got up on plane and went on with my day. Those were sweet boats and I appreciate them for what they are and can do.

So you don’t want them surfing when it’s crowded, but if they get up early when no ones on the water that’s wrong too?

I get it. I don’t understand the guys that run around ballasted out with no one behind them either, but that kind is the minority. I don’t do it, none of my rollbar owning friends do it, and I’ve honestly only seen it a couple of times.

We all need to be respectful of each other and mindful of others no matter what. My and my groups routine has been stated on here multiple times so I’m not going to defend myself yet again, but lumping all owners of one particular type of watercraft is both ignorant and arrogant. There is no one right way to enjoy the water.
View attachment 900134

Here’s the other 1%.


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maybe thats how you drive as a responsible boater. But the 99% of other wake board boat drivers are fucking clueless
 

DarkHorseRacing

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The way I read the Lake Arrowhead rules for approved towed devices/activities #8, wake surfing is not on the list and as such, not allowed.
True but I have seen people on wakesurf boards (hell Inland Marine sells them on a lake where its supposedly not allowed), just using a longer rope (and not dropping the rope) so it looks more like wakeboarding (or so they claim I guess) if the Lake patrol stops them. So not allowed but Lake Patrol isn't keeping up on the end run around the rules.
 

SKIDMARC

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Like many have said its the driver not the boat. Same could be said for power boat operators. Wake board/Surf boats are here to stay and are already the majority out on lakes and rivers. 18-20 ft low free board boats are a thing of the past.

Times have changed in boating as all things do. You either adapt by updating your equipment, learn how to navigate the new challenge of the wakes or move on to another hobby. You don't eliminate a billion dollar industry or add special regulations for the majority of boaters because it doesn't fit your style.

I do understand the dock damage but it is what it is. When in Parker all those nice rental houses on the river have wakeboard/surf boats in the docks. Are we going to say they cant rent there house to them because of the boat they run? I would think not.

Honesty I don't see how so many "experienced" boat operators have problems navigating the wakes. I have a 21 ft boat that I am able to figure it out just fine. Just slow down and pay attention. Seems like the biggest grip is the you have to slow down. Also if you are taking a boat that is smaller than a 24-25ft on Havazoo then you are asking for it IMO. My boat has no business on Havazoo so I don't complain about it or ask for regulations, I just don't boat that lake.

I think a simple solution is to have wake/surf sections on the river or lake. Castaic does that and it seems to work fine. But those sections do take up the majority of the lake because the majority of the people out there are there to do just that.
 

94Nautique

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Like many have said its the driver not the boat. Same could be said for power boat operators. Wake board/Surf boats are here to stay and are already the majority out on lakes and rivers. 18-20 ft low free board boats are a thing of the past.

Times have changed in boating as all things do. You either adapt by updating your equipment, learn how to navigate the new challenge of the wakes or move on to another hobby. You don't eliminate a billion dollar industry or add special regulations for the majority of boaters because it doesn't fit your style.

I do understand the dock damage but it is what it is. When in Parker all those nice rental houses on the river have wakeboard/surf boats in the docks. Are we going to say they cant rent there house to them because of the boat they run? I would think not.

Honesty I don't see how so many "experienced" boat operators have problems navigating the wakes. I have a 21 ft boat that I am able to figure it out just fine. Just slow down and pay attention. Seems like the biggest grip is the you have to slow down. Also if you are taking a boat that is smaller than a 24-25ft on Havazoo then you are asking for it IMO. My boat has no business on Havazoo so I don't complain about it or ask for regulations, I just don't boat that lake.

I think a simple solution is to have wake/surf sections on the river or lake. Castaic does that and it seems to work fine. But those sections do take up the majority of the lake because the majority of the people out there are there to do just that.
I have to ask, if the boat is being driven as designed, which is to say throw a 3-4 foot WAVE, how is it not the driver? We're not talking about a driver that is doing power turns sending rollers, we're talking about a good driver driving a boat engineered to make huge waves. What are we missing here?
 

SKIDMARC

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I have to ask, if the boat is being driven as designed, which is to say throw a 3-4 foot WAVE, how is it not the driver? We're not talking about a driver that is doing power turns sending rollers, we're talking about a good driver driving a boat engineered to make huge waves. What are we missing here?

Read post #109. beaverretriever explains it pretty well.

Also post #76 is a good example.
 

94Nautique

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Read post #109. beaverretriever explains it pretty well.

Also post #76 is a good example.
I did, he explained it very well, which is exactly my point. "...the rear is all new design for surfing." He also noted he knows of people that wake surf for 12 hours straight, which again is my point. When all drivers are driving a surf boat, with surfers, it destroys the water for everyone. Can anyone argue that point?
 

SKIDMARC

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I did, he explained it very well, which is exactly my point. "...the rear is all new design for surfing." He also noted he knows of people that wake surf for 12 hours straight, which again is my point. When all drivers are driving a surf boat, with surfers, it destroys the water for everyone. Can anyone argue that point?

He said when not ballast the boats don't make any bigger wake that your average runabout. He said only the G series Nautique hulls are designed for multiple functions. But you can set it to which type of wake you want. Its the drivers choice.

He did say there are people that surf all day long. But what are we going to do limit the time they have on the water? That's not going to happen.

The surf boats only destroy the water for people who do not like them. That's not everyone. IMO
 

boatdoc55

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I did, he explained it very well, which is exactly my point. "...the rear is all new design for surfing." He also noted he knows of people that wake surf for 12 hours straight, which again is my point. When all drivers are driving a surf boat, with surfers, it destroys the water for everyone. Can anyone argue that point?
Damn you 94. Will you quit making sense!! :D

Fuck Dockbusters!!!!!!!
 

OldSchoolBoats

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Super dangerous experience with one on Parker yesterday. Middle of the day, busy part of river and I come up on one going right down the middle of the river. His wake was so big that I I couldn't see the surfer until we were about 50 feet off his rear. I slowed down and literally thought I was going to stuff the nose but gunned it and soared off of it to pass right in front of the surfer. Of course they all threw their hands up like I was doing something wrong.

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94Nautique

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He said when not ballast the boats don't make any bigger wake that your average runabout. He said only the G series Nautique hulls are designed for multiple functions. But you can set it to which type of wake you want. Its the drivers choice.

He did say there are people that surf all day long. But what are we going to do limit the time they have on the water? That's not going to happen.

The surf boats only destroy the water for people who do not like them. That's not everyone. IMO
hehehe, so you are saying people that paid 100k for a surf boat, have it loaded with people to go surfing, are only using it to cruise around. ok, gotcha. Makes total sense.
All of them just scurrying around at 40 mph. Sure.
 

Lavey5150

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Paying 100k for a "surf boat" was the first mistakeHope it came W/ a big gas card and Beverage/Food comps for years to come.It's not surfing BTW.40 MPH loaded w/ dicks and water, is a stretch, maybe 35.......😴
 

howard21

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Super dangerous experience with one on Parker yesterday. Middle of the day, busy part of river and I come up on one going right down the middle of the river. His wake was so big that I I couldn't see the surfer until we were about 50 feet off his rear. I slowed down and literally thought I was going to stuff the nose but gunned it and soared off of it to pass right in front of the surfer. Of course they all threw their hands up like I was doing something wrong.

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Just got back from Shasta and had same issue. When they are surfing you can't see the surfer since they are so close to their boat and wake is huge. They also like to surf in the narrow part of lake close to marina's which causes more problems with finding a clear way around them.
 

lbhsbz

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What happened to the good old days when you could have a plenty good time on a skurfer behind a 17' tahiti outboard? Even when "wakeboards" came out...they were just thinner skurfers...same bungee type bindings. I never had the balls to, but I watched plenty of guys do flips behind "normal" boats. I still have the first HO Shapiro in the garage...it's the one with fins on one end only.
 

94Nautique

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What happened to the good old days when you could have a plenty good time on a skurfer behind a 17' tahiti outboard? Even when "wakeboards" came out...they were just thinner skurfers...same bungee type bindings. I never had the balls to, but I watched plenty of guys do flips behind "normal" boats. I still have the first HO Shapiro in the garage...it's the one with fins on one end only.
Agreed. I think it has to do with everything having way better technology, everyone getting an edge, taking everything a bit further, hundreds of new "sports" and a lack of understanding that "sure its legal, but that doesnt mean its cool for other people that have to deal with your stuff" mentality. Makes me wish I had made the millions to afford my own private ski lake. oh well.
 

Brobee

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I have to ask, if the boat is being driven as designed, which is to say throw a 3-4 foot WAVE, how is it not the driver? We're not talking about a driver that is doing power turns sending rollers, we're talking about a good driver driving a boat engineered to make huge waves. What are we missing here?
I agree with you. It’s 100% the driver. So why the hate towards one particular type of boat when it’s the dickhole behind the wheel that’s plowing for no reason or surfing in the middle of a highly traveled waterway?
I own one of these tractors, and so do my friends, so because of this I pay particular attention to any other roll bar I see. I like to look at and appreciate the designs and equipment of other brands. I’ve only once came up on an older Mastercraft that was ballasted and plowing for no reason. I remember that boat because he was an asshat. But I don’t remember the 100 other Malibu’s, Centaurian’s, Nautiques, or any of the multitude of boats I saw that were just cruising as normal and I doubt you remember the ones that were being respectful.
I don’t think there are more ignorant owners per capita than any other type of boat I just think there are more recently more surf boats on the water.

I also don’t think the newer boats are the ones making the problems.

As it was shown above you can buy a $200 suction cup fin and make any older wake boat surfable. So as an ignorant hormone filled douche nozzle you can buy a low budget boat, sack it out, and take it out surfing. But if no one can see me surfing then what’s the point? So I’ll cruise up where the people are. But it takes a long time to fill each of these sacks and equally as long to drain them. So I’ll keep them filled and plow up river to where the hoes at. It might take three times as long and use all my gas, but dammit I need an audience!

My boat can take on 3000# of water by opening a gate in about 2 minutes. Another 2200# in the rear and 600# in the nose in about 15. All with the flick of a switch. It drains in about a quarter of that. And mine is one of the more basic analog set ups. So it doesn’t make sense to run anywhere more than a few minutes away with any kind of ballast. It’s a waste of fuel, it’s harder on the motor, and it’s slow. It’s the same with all the newer boats. The fill and drain times are so quick and easy that it doesn’t make sense to run weighted for no reason. I have yet to see any of the newer high dollar surf boats running full for no reason.


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namba860

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I get it most of it is the driver but put the same driver in say a 20 Stoker outboard the results will not be the same the boat does play a part in it as well.
 

94Nautique

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I agree with you. It’s 100% the driver. So why the hate towards one particular type of boat when it’s the dickhole behind the wheel that’s plowing for no reason or surfing in the middle of a highly traveled waterway?
I own one of these tractors, and so do my friends, so because of this I pay particular attention to any other roll bar I see. I like to look at and appreciate the designs and equipment of other brands. I’ve only once came up on an older Mastercraft that was ballasted and plowing for no reason. I remember that boat because he was an asshat. But I don’t remember the 100 other Malibu’s, Centaurian’s, Nautiques, or any of the multitude of boats I saw that were just cruising as normal and I doubt you remember the ones that were being respectful.
I don’t think there are more ignorant owners per capita than any other type of boat I just think there are more recently more surf boats on the water.

I also don’t think the newer boats are the ones making the problems.

As it was shown above you can buy a $200 suction cup fin and make any older wake boat surfable. So as an ignorant hormone filled douche nozzle you can buy a low budget boat, sack it out, and take it out surfing. But if no one can see me surfing then what’s the point? So I’ll cruise up where the people are. But it takes a long time to fill each of these sacks and equally as long to drain them. So I’ll keep them filled and plow up river to where the hoes at. It might take three times as long and use all my gas, but dammit I need an audience!

My boat can take on 3000# of water by opening a gate in about 2 minutes. Another 2200# in the rear and 600# in the nose in about 15. All with the flick of a switch. It drains in about a quarter of that. And mine is one of the more basic analog set ups. So it doesn’t make sense to run anywhere more than a few minutes away with any kind of ballast. It’s a waste of fuel, it’s harder on the motor, and it’s slow. It’s the same with all the newer boats. The fill and drain times are so quick and easy that it doesn’t make sense to run weighted for no reason. I have yet to see any of the newer high dollar surf boats running full for no reason.


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Anything you can do to help is appreciated. I'm old school and believe in personal choice, and I trust that people, when informed make good choices. You seem like one of the people that can help Shepard in the outliers, not an easy job, but it wlll help keep the nazi lefties out of the picture because all power boats will be targets.

BTW, for whats its worth, I live at the beach and surf with my sons a lot. I also drive about an hour to water ski, and it blows my mind everytime Im at the lake, there are surf boats cranking away, when probably the best breaks in the world are only an hour away from THEM. Now, if you live in the center of the country, I get it, but if people are only an hour away from the beach, why do it with a boat when you can go full beach. I'll never get it.
 

namba860

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Anything you can do to help is appreciated. I'm old school and believe in personal choice, and I trust that people, when informed make good choices. You seem like one of the people that can help Shepard in the outliers, not an easy job, but it wlll help keep the nazi lefties out of the picture because all power boats will be targets.

BTW, for whats its worth, I live at the beach and surf with my sons a lot. I also drive about an hour to water ski, and it blows my mind everytime Im at the lake, there are surf boats cranking away, when probably the best breaks in the world are only an hour away from THEM. Now, if you live in the center of the country, I get it, but if people are only an hour away from the beach, why do it with a boat when you can go full beach. I'll never get it.
It’s called monkey see monkey do
 

boatnam2

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Well i figured i would see how things are this past weekend as far as who riding in what, upper sandbar all weekend was 70-80% surf boats and 20% the other. Funny thing i was putting my boat into a new storage unit and dude standing there was giving me the ole stink eye, I asked the storage guy let me guess flat bottom guy, yep!
 

LB247XS

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I just spent 2days In Parker all I can say is thanks for fucking up my boat tied up at ROADRUNNER and cutting me off multiple times . ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS and have the nerve to throw your hands up when you are the Idiots not paying attention. so focused on what's behind your boat and not giving a shit about other boaters and residents docks as I watched them getting thrashed. I'm not speaking of just one person but several.

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El Rojo

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I luv the term “water plow”. That made my morning. I hate those f ers and as everyone knows its the f tard behind the wheel, not the boat. I had one almost take me out in my Schiada N of Moabi and near the Pirate at Parker. 30’+ boats on Parker are getting obnixious as well. Starting to think its time to build a bitchen jet and boat S/O Parker. Lol
The river’s closed south of Parker...literally lol
 

Looking Glass

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I promis you it is Just a matter of time!! I am suprised the Floating Bars on the River have not started something to (?) These Clowns are destroying the River and the Boating Customers. The same thing is "A COMING" on the River In Bullhead. The Jet Ski Rentals don't care about any idea if the average renter has a Clue how to operate a "JET". Just sit there some time and Imagine how nice the River would be without 100's of No Clue Jet Ski operators doing everything imaginable ruining the Water for anyone else.

I am waiting for something or someone = Once the $'s become irrelevant.:mad:
 
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