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buck35

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So my orchard well has shit the bed . It's an old hand dug well with a 4 foot concrete casing/ liner and is jam packed full of Willow roots .what's the pros say to clean it out and prevent a reoccurring event in my future.
 

Wheeler

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Copper Sulfate might work. Determining the proper amount might be the tough part.
 

Carlson-jet

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Copper sulfate might not be good for the orchard. Just saying.
Have new one dug with a modern liner imo.

I guess it depends on the number of gallons per minute you are wanting to pull?
 

boatdoc55

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My hand dug in Oregon was 33' deep. It had 58" diameter X 30" tall well tiles from what I remember and I dug it. Permitted and inspected. I set up an "A- frame" with a block hanging from the cross member and had a jeep with a winch. Used it to get the dirt/sand out and lower the tiles in one by one. If what happened to your's happened to mine I would do the same thing again but this time no digging, just chopping off the roots on the way down.
Does it flow to good to use a pump to draw it down while chopping? That might be a problem if it really kicks butt with flow. Did the well not get sealed to the 18' depth, that was required in Oregon. They called it the anular ring or something like that. It kept the ground water and roots out all the way down to 18'. It was 4" thick around the tile.
I mentioned above " I " would do it but NO I couldn't now, I'm much older. I'd just have some one try it and see what happens.
Not funny to you but Tommy, was that guy, and I were just talking about my well just the other day as he is set to go back doing water wells after the oil field deal shut off.

What ever you do I wish you the best!!!
 

welldigger00

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It comes down to what you local drilling/pump outfit has available for equipment and also what you want to spend, in addition to how much access you have over the well for equipment. I’ve deepened a ton of wells in the Lytle creek area that are of the same construction. Setting a casing advance rig up over the top of this would be my first choice, and driving pipe into native formation, to seal off all the junk on top, with like 16” casing, then drill do what ever depth is required for an decent flow. Set what ever liner is gonna be required for what ever pump diameter, based on flow rate, then gravel back to below the driven casing, then grout up the annular space between the liner and driven casing, jack the casing out leaving the liner sealed off in concrete to prevent this from happening again, and a decent sanitary seal as well. I’ve also done this process with a cable tool rig as well. Just much slower.


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buck35

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It comes down to what you local drilling/pump outfit has available for equipment and also what you want to spend, in addition to how much access you have over the well for equipment. I’ve deepened a ton of wells in the Lytle creek area that are of the same construction. Setting a casing advance rig up over the top of this would be my first choice, and driving pipe into native formation, to seal off all the junk on top, with like 16” casing, then drill do what ever depth is required for an decent flow. Set what ever liner is gonna be required for what ever pump diameter, based on flow rate, then gravel back to below the driven casing, then grout up the annular space between the liner and driven casing, jack the casing out leaving the liner sealed off in concrete to prevent this from happening again, and a decent sanitary seal as well. I’ve also done this process with a cable tool rig as well. Just much slower.


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This is the correct option going forward, but I need to remove the roots to get us water going again . The static level is only about 7 feet as the pump is only about 20 feet from the river.
I went after it with a sawsall with success yesterday, but got more to go .
 

welldigger00

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Are you looking for a permanent solution, or just a temporary one? Possibly a local pump outfit could setup over it, and rig up some kind of frog gig, or a knife setup on some drop pipe and rip all that stuff up, and remove it. I’d expect an hourly rate in the $150 an hour deal, like fishing. Spend a grand every year, or get it over with, and bite the bullet, and be done.


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buck35

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The neighbors and I had talked about dropping a boat anchor in and pulling with his forklift boom. It's inside a pumphouse so boom trucks are out unless we take the whole roof off.
Thanks for the suggestions welldigger.
 

C-2

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My hand dug well went dry about 3 years agao after at least 75 years of service. No casing left on mine, just granite walls. The casing was destroyed by roots and a piece of the hodge podge concrete casing was stamped 1945 on it.

I'm not sure if it went dry, or if there was a partial collapse. 33-34' deep, about 5' round.

My solution was city water, $15K connection fee. My volume was low, the water level sits at about 30', so I wanted something more reliable.

I haven't looked down there in about 3 years - the trees are doing better, I wonder if the water table came up again.

What about those big ass vacuum trucks, I wondered if they could pump it clean like they do on street drains/vaults.?
 

buck35

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No City water here , this a rural ag setup that serves just a few people and about 20 acres.
Pumps a couple hundred gallons a minute. It was probably dug in the 30s or 40s
 

Wheeler

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No City water here , this a rural ag setup that serves just a few people and about 20 acres.
Pumps a couple hundred gallons a minute. It was probably dug in the 30s or 40s
Thats a good amount of water. What are you using for a well pump?
 

C-2

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Cool story...a miner used to live on my property. Mined for gold at Mt. Whitney during summer, and during the winter they busted up the aggregate in SoCal and extracted the gold. All the original tin sheds are still standing, with the corners of the buildings resting on flat granite pieces.

They also got bored during the winter and being miners, dug all these crazy ass wells throughout the area, including one well that went down and then had 5 tunnels in the shape of star at the bottom.

It's also rumored there's gold buried on property. A neighbor said as a child, he saw Mason jars filled with gold down in a cellar that was dug by the miner.

The guy who owned the property before me was a civil engineer who inherited the parcel. He sold it because he lived in LA, and would visit the property infrequently only to find swimming pool sized holes dug throughout the parcel due to people looking for the gold. I asked him one time why there's a chair or bench at the bottom of the well....yup, he said, somebody lowered a person down into the well looking for the gold. That's when he decided to sell the parcel, lol.

Our parcel still has one of the servant's quarters from The Hole Ranch, which encompassed a lot of Riverside, all of Norco and parts of Corona. Hole Ranch - Rancho La Sierra
 

boatdoc55

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No City water here , this a rural ag setup that serves just a few people and about 20 acres.
Pumps a couple hundred gallons a minute. It was probably dug in the 30s or 40s
Holy Crap 2 hundred a minute!!!!! JEEZUS that's a lot of water. Did it have the storage capacity for that or it flowed that good.
 

buck35

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Pumps like a sumbitch and static doesn't change. Like I said earlier, it's only a few feet from the river. That flow is according to the meter the water Nazis required several years ago.
 

Wheeler

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25horse centrifugal. This is on the Columbia River in WA. In the desert half of the state.
You're getting more for less. Sounds like white privilege to me! ;)

I'm pumping about 150 gpm from a depth of 230 ft. from a ten in. well using a 64 hp. Ford industrial engine at 2400 rpm.
 

buck35

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But weather is not as nice....at least half the year.😉:)
 

n2otoofast4u

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Buck35 are you on the section of river that Cresent Bar is on, or are you above that? I want to make a trip up there, it looks like there is a decent following of performance boats around that Cresent Bar area.
 

buck35

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Buck35 are you on the section of river that Cresent Bar is on, or are you above that? I want to make a trip up there, it looks like there is a decent following of performance boats around that Cresent Bar area.
I'm on the next pool upriver. And yes some nice boats run out of crescent bar.

Some nice boating there and a huge sandbar a few miles downriver.
 

buck35

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Well 2500 later pump is new and motor rebearinged and. cleaned up.
My bad it's only a 20 horse.
20200701_153343.jpg
20200701_153343.jpg
 
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RadMan

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So water level is 7’ below ground level.
Well is 20’ from river.
Cased hole is 4’ diameter.
How deep is the well?
How deep is the pump set?
Looks like roots and dirt have infilled majority of the well. Do you just have a ~12” open hole for the pump? Or is it somehow only infilled at the water level (confused).
Root removal is going to be tough with or without well equipment.
If you get the well open, look up a Cotey Chemical product called Wellgicide. Its purpose is to prevent root growth into a well bore. It will kill the roots back into the well bore wall, but you still have to physically remove them first, it does not dissolve them.
If you clean it out and run the pump with a bunch of loose roots in the water you will trap lots of roots in the pumps impeller or impellers. It’s just like a jet boat impellar, just smaller, the smallest roots once stuck wont move through on their own with flow.

😜 Or Maybe buy a truckload or 3 of undiluted hydrogen peroxide and dissolve the roots, may take a few loads. No guarantees, but a good science experiment. Don’t tell the State.
 

n2otoofast4u

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I'm on the next pool upriver. And yes some nice boats run out of crescent bar.

Some nice boating there and a huge sandbar a few miles downriver.
Is there a lock system do get down, or do you have to pull out and go around? I am going to get up there this summer I hope!
 

Wheeler

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What do you grow out there ?


There used to be peaches and pears, apples and apricots along with a variety of other trees. The trees were getting old and bark beetles moved in so I quit watering and only have Rattle snakes and Jack rabbits now. ;)
 

buck35

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Is there a lock system do get down, or do you have to pull out and go around? I am going to get up there this summer I hope!
No locks , you can launch at vantage or crescent bar or my place on the next pool.
 

buck35

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So water level is 7’ below ground level.
Well is 20’ from river.
Cased hole is 4’ diameter.
How deep is the well?
How deep is the pump set?
Looks like roots and dirt have infilled majority of the well. Do you just have a ~12” open hole for the pump? Or is it somehow only infilled at the water level (confused).
Root removal is going to be tough with or without well equipment.
If you get the well open, look up a Cotey Chemical product called Wellgicide. Its purpose is to prevent root growth into a well bore. It will kill the roots back into the well bore wall, but you still have to physically remove them first, it does not dissolve them.
If you clean it out and run the pump with a bunch of loose roots in the water you will trap lots of roots in the pumps impeller or impellers. It’s just like a jet boat impellar, just smaller, the smallest roots once stuck wont move through on their own with flow.

😜 Or Maybe buy a truckload or 3 of undiluted hydrogen peroxide and dissolve the roots, may take a few loads. No guarantees, but a good science experiment. Don’t tell the State.
Sorry ,I missed this earlier. The pump is on a frame across the top. The intake/ footvalve is tennish feet under water. Most of this mess is just above and below the water I believe.
Tell me more about this root product.
 

buck35

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Apparently 6 years worth .i guess we have a new pump pm from now on .
 
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