What would a performance single Verado 600 boat look like?

[Matt Mead]

I know they were primarily designed to reduce the number of 450R's hanging off the back of big center consoles and stuff. I'm not interested in that, though.

I know what a really light and small boat looks like with a 300 hanging off the back. And it's easy to then imagine what a slightly bigger Vee or cat looks like with a single 450R hanging off the back. Plenty of examples of both. But what would something look like that is the bare minimum to hang a 600 off the back?

I know there has to be some designs being tested and proven right now, since it's new. I'm not talking about a 27'+ boat, I'm talking smaller. I'm just spitballing here, but what if you could hang a 600 off the back of a 21-22' beefy hull? Maybe it needs some serious freeboard, draft, transom section, etc.

Yes I am aware of how heavy the dang thing is. I'm bored and daydreaming.

 

[hallett21]

You’re limited by that gear case and propeller combo. I’m pretty sure the fastest that motor will “go” is in the 65-73 mph range.

 

[Matt Mead]

Surely that won't stop a CNC shop from milling out a few new props? People seem to barely blink an eye dropping $5k on a new custom cleaver.

 

[retaocleg]

we did a twin 350 verado boat and as stated before, gearcases on the lower were not for high performance.......customer was onboard with that
to each their own.......
boat would be faster with 300's.........but everyone has different applications

 

[02HoWaRd26]

A Hallet 290/Lacey 2750 would be a sweet candidate imho. Big cruiser with plenty of freeboard, if it ran in the 60’s it’d be perfect. But that’s just me thinking based upon your question.

 

[DWC]

we did a twin 350 verado boat and as stated before, gearcases on the lower were not for high performance.......customer was onboard with that
to each their own.......
boat would be faster with 300's.........but everyone has different applications

Same boat that’s for sale at Hi Line?

 

[hallett21]

Surely that won't stop a CNC shop from milling out a few new props? People seem to barely blink an eye dropping $5k on a new custom cleaver.

Depending on who you ask, between 75-90 mph you need a nose cone as well. But typically that’s a on a semi surfacing drive (mercury 300r, B1 speed master, 6 drive, imco etc).

So let’s say you had the props made (I think custom ones would be 25-30k because you’re going to need more than 1 set) you would then need to modify the lower unit. And then finally you would need to raise the motor 6-12”?

I’m not sure the gear case could take the stress of surfacing counter rotating performance props for very long.

If you had 250k to blow though this could be entertaining!

 

[spectra3279]

Like it's sinking

 

[Gelcoater]

I know they were primarily designed to reduce the number of 450R's hanging off the back of big center consoles and stuff. I'm not interested in that, though.

I know what a really light and small boat looks like with a 300 hanging off the back. And it's easy to then imagine what a slightly bigger Vee or cat looks like with a single 450R hanging off the back. Plenty of examples of both. But what would something look like that is the bare minimum to hang a 600 off the back?

I know there has to be some designs being tested and proven right now, since it's new. I'm not talking about a 27'+ boat, I'm talking smaller. I'm just spitballing here, but what if you could hang a 600 off the back of a 21-22' beefy hull? Maybe it needs some serious freeboard, draft, transom section, etc.

Yes I am aware of how heavy the dang thing is. I'm bored and daydreaming.

Bob at Shockwave should bolt one on a 25 Tremor

 

[retaocleg]

Same boat that’s for sale at Hi Line?

i didnt see it there........unless it was a different hi line, we only did one tho.......also did a 29 with twin 200'sguy could care less about speed, just wanted 2 motors because he boated one of the great lakes i believe

 

[Marios Metalworks]

Bored and daydreaming here too.

I’d mount it forward of the transom like a i/o and have the rotating assembly even with the keel like a v-drive. Steering wheel to control the rudder and a little joystick to rotate the drive.

 

[Ragged Edge]

Like this. Outerlimits 29sv. This one has twin 300r's. The single 600 would still be a bit heavier but this hull should be able to handle that. As mentioned, a modified gear case would be a must.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

The 600 has the pivoting lower for.turning and the midsection is massive. Not sure it would work on a sport boat application. The motor would need to be mounted a couple of feet above the 300r and the cg would be shot to hell.

2 or 3 these on a nortech flyer would be the way to go I think and is probably the closest you get to a sport boat application.

 

[HST4ME]

 

[retaocleg]

did a 26 deck with a single 300 or 350 verado..........right at 60

surprised we dont do more of them......

 

[HST4ME]

lots of mid sized cruiser boats in Florida with 300's. Some of them move pretty good considering,

 

[instagator]

My 23' has a 400 and that seems to heavy. The problem that rear weight trying to roll over is the problem. My boat will only plain or roll over with a max 5,
1-1/8 exhaust holes prop. No other prop will get the boat going.

 

[RogerThat99]

A Hallet 290/Lacey 2750 would be a sweet candidate imho. Big cruiser with plenty of freeboard, if it ran in the 60’s it’d be perfect. But that’s just me thinking based upon your question.

Velocity just built a 28 with twin 450's that runs 115.

Video of it running.

Velocity Power Boats | Velocity Powerboats VR1 Carbon Edition powered by twin Mercury Racing 450R's ran 115 MPH | Facebook

Velocity Powerboats VR1 Carbon Edition powered by twin Mercury Racing 450R's ran 115 MPH! 🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯🏁🏆🏆🏆 #velocityfast #VR1 #worldsfastestvbottoms #mercuryracing #winning #portabracket #lovorsi...

www.facebook.com

Speed On The Water write up.

Velocity VR1 Tops 115 MPH On Twin 450R Outboard Engine Power

Long ago, the 29-foot Velocity Powerboats VR1 earned a reputation as a fast V-bottom on sterndrive-engine power. But with the seismic shift toward outboard engines in the high-performance world in more-recent years, Scott McCormick, the owner of the Sanford, Fla., company knew he had to […]

www.speedonthewater.com

 

[WavetoWave]

I know they were primarily designed to reduce the number of 450R's hanging off the back of big center consoles and stuff. I'm not interested in that, though.

I know what a really light and small boat looks like with a 300 hanging off the back. And it's easy to then imagine what a slightly bigger Vee or cat looks like with a single 450R hanging off the back. Plenty of examples of both. But what would something look like that is the bare minimum to hang a 600 off the back?

I know there has to be some designs being tested and proven right now, since it's new. I'm not talking about a 27'+ boat, I'm talking smaller. I'm just spitballing here, but what if you could hang a 600 off the back of a 21-22' beefy hull? Maybe it needs some serious freeboard, draft, transom section, etc.

Yes I am aware of how heavy the dang thing is. I'm bored and daydreaming.

If you were running a 1200 Lbs outboard on a 21, it would be a tug boat. The dynamics of going fast on the water are the hull design, the gearcase and the prop, along with weight, hydrodynamics and aerodynmics. Boats aren't like cars where you just add power. You can add power and go faster within the capabilities of the hull but it's not that simple.

For instance, I took an Allison Grand Sport, a 20' boat, and slightly modified a stock Mercury 150 four stroke and it did 80 MPH. Custom nosecone and a stiffer mounts, that's it. That has to do with the boat design. Making slow boats fast with power is an exercise in inefficiency.

You could potentially make a Verado 600 fast on a boat capable of handling the weight, the boat would have to be big, but the gearcase isn't designed to do much over 80 MPH. Twin 300R would be lighter and faster. A single 450R would be lighter and faster.

Here's an article about the Project 150 on the Allison:

https://www.wavetowave.com/home/201...sport-test-update-the-mercury-150-hits-80-mph

This Tuff 24' goes 110 MPH with a 300R. A Chaudron 27 with a single 450R does 100 MPH.

 

[Matt Mead]

I'll never want anything other than one or two lightweight old two strokes on a lightweight hull. I'll never be in the market for a 600 on anything. I'm just wondering what a boat specifically designed to hold a single 600 would look like, if it was maximized for performance. Never said it had to go 100 or anything. It did say nothing over 27' and that may have been a mistake given the mass of a single 600 and the reality of where the design would end up.

The thread derailed real fast into "Look at this fast setup with twin 300's". Yeah, I know. We've all seen that. Obviously it's better. Obviously it's what I would choose. I was just wondering if any builders were trying to do a single 600 build, because so far all I see them on are $500k+ 30'+ boats with 2-4 bolted on.

 

[Matt Mead]

My 23' has a 400 and that seems to heavy. The problem that rear weight trying to roll over is the problem. My boat will only plain or roll over with a max 5,
1-1/8 exhaust holes prop. No other prop will get the boat going.

This may sound really obvious, but have you tried lowering the motor?

I keep seeing this complaint from a lot of new builds. I feel like the builders are setting everything up for ultimate top speed and the new owners are wondering why their holeshot sucks ass. It's like Ferarri and Lamborghini chasing that top speed number for all the magazine reviews or something, and along the way everyone forgot about holeshot with a big family, cooler full of drinks, ez-up, stereo system with subwoofers, full tanks and a bunch of other gear on board. I don't know what the deal is, but I've seen your comment what seems like 100 times now in the last couple years. Surely there's a way to get a nice new boat with a nice new outboard to "roll over". Am I missing something?

Edit: I've had this image in my head for so long I had to draw it. This is what I'm imagining in my head. A builder comes up with a new ad for a magazine, website, whatever and it looks like this:

Somebody buys it. Cut to the first test day: "Bro, I can't get it to roll over. I've tried 6 props!"

Obviously super exaggerated. PLEASE tell me I am wrong on this, lol. There has to be some other reason this keeps happening.

Please don't take this the wrong way. No offense meant at all. It's just the funny image I keep having in my head. I've driven jet boats most my life and just started messing with outboards, so I really don't know much anyway. I've already got a thread scratching my head trying to set mine up.

Edit 2: I don't think it's the weight of the motor on your setup. I have a 400 lbs motor bolted to the back of a 900 lb hull, on a jackplate also (more leverage). It "rolls over" in about 1.2 seconds. I mean it literally shoots out onto plane. With two people on the back bench I can barely tell a difference. With a quick thought experiment, If I put those two people on the back swim steps I still don't think I would have much of a problem. Simulating a way heavier motor.

Here's a popular hull that people run: https://fullthrottlepowerboats.com/stv/ . They start at 600 lbs and they can build them down to 325 lbs. The most popular Mercury they bolt up is just over 400 lbs. Some of the guys run heavier motors and I think some have tried 4 strokes, at ~450 lbs. Look at the motor weight to hull weight ratio on that! Holy crap!

So you mentioned you have 668 lb 400 on the back of a 23'. How heavy is that 23'? Sure the ratio can't be crazier than an STV with a big Merc on the back, right? I mean, I really don't think the weight of the 400 is your problem.

This leads me to a new thought, though. If a 325 lb hull can hold up a 400 lb motor...does that mean you could build a 1,000 lb hull to hold up a 1,200 lb 600? Maybe it doesn't need to be a monster hull like we were talking about? Well, the height of the motor is pretty freaking tall, though. Don't know how you could have that tall of a transom and end up with a small hull. What hull lengths typical clock in at 1,000 lbs though?

 

[clarence]

Length: 25’6”
Beam: 9’3”
Draft: 14”
Deadrise (At Transom): 18 Degrees
Weight: 4,500lbs
Max HP: 627

26 Open | Barker Boatworks

barkerboatworks.com

 

[stoker2001]

This may sound really obvious, but have you tried lowering the motor?

I keep seeing this complaint from a lot of new builds. I feel like the builders are setting everything up for ultimate top speed and the new owners are wondering why their holeshot sucks ass. It's like Ferarri and Lamborghini chasing that top speed number for all the magazine reviews or something, and along the way everyone forgot about holeshot with a big family, cooler full of drinks, ez-up, stereo system with subwoofers, full tanks and a bunch of other gear on board. I don't know what the deal is, but I've seen your comment what seems like 100 times now in the last couple years. Surely there's a way to get a nice new boat with a nice new outboard to "roll over". Am I missing something?

Edit: I've had this image in my head for so long I had to draw it. This is what I'm imagining in my head. A builder comes up with a new ad for a magazine, website, whatever and it looks like this:
View attachment 1161375



This leads me to a new thought, though. If a 325 lb hull can hold up a 400 lb motor...does that mean you could build a 1,000 lb hull to hold up a 1,200 lb 600? Maybe it doesn't need to be a monster hull like we were talking about? Well, the height of the motor is pretty freaking tall, though. Don't know how you could have that tall of a transom and end up with a small hull. What hull lengths typical clock in at 1,000 lbs though?

This Mirage quartermaster wieghs sub 1K with driver included.with a 2.5 drag producing 330HP at 9500RPMs naturally asperated with pump and race gas mixture it has run 8.69@ 126mph in full 1320' liquid quarter

 

[Matt Mead]

Length: 25’6”
Beam: 9’3”
Draft: 14”
Deadrise (At Transom): 18 Degrees
Weight: 4,500lbs
Max HP: 627

26 Open | Barker Boatworks

barkerboatworks.com

I thought we were getting warmer until I kept looking. Yeah, it might be rated at 627 hp, but I don't think the transom or freeboard/draft (moulded depth?) are physically large enough to fit the 600. Looking through the photos it seems that hp rating is assuming normal twin motors.

You know what, though. Now that I look at the actual specs for the 600, they list the shortest "shaft" length at 20". I didn't realize until now, but that's the same as a normal size outboard. I can't find overall outer dimensions anywhere, but it's gotta look out of place and weird mounted to that particular hull for example, even if it will technically fit. I dunno, from whatever photos I've seen with people standing next to it it looks huge. Then you mount it to a 40' center console and it looks normal. Haven't seen one in real life so I have no reference.

Still, 4,500 lbs is not exactly a performance hull that I'm thinking about. That's a really nice fishing boat, and probably can go pretty fast, but I'm thinking of a scaled up STV River Rocket or Allison.

For example, take this:

and keep scaling it up until it will barely:
A) physically fit the 600
B) not sink
C) not crack the transom to bits after 20 hours

I realize it ain't gonna look like that on plane, and it's gonna be way slower, but you get the idea.

 

[clarence]

Looking through the photos it seems that hp rating is assuming normal twin motors.

Nope, assumes the Seven Marine 627 motor.

Probably 85mph.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating-forum/730858-barker-powered-627-a.html

 

[Matt Mead]

Whoah, OK. Now all of a sudden it looks like it would work. Take off the trolling motor, power poles, delete all the live wells/storage and fishing stuff... Might be a serious contender. The 627 is almost the same weight as the 600, too. Maybe it's a similar size. Alright, now all of a sudden I can see what a performance single Verado 600 boat would look like!! My first impression was off.

WTF, it comes in carbon, too!? They were definitely cooking up something pretty cool with this thing.

 

[clarence]

Yeah, a wrap-around deck, cut down center console, racing bolsters...

Silly, but:

If you had 250k to blow though this could be entertaining!

 

[WavetoWave]

I'll never want anything other than one or two lightweight old two strokes on a lightweight hull. I'll never be in the market for a 600 on anything. I'm just wondering what a boat specifically designed to hold a single 600 would look like, if it was maximized for performance. Never said it had to go 100 or anything. It did say nothing over 27' and that may have been a mistake given the mass of a single 600 and the reality of where the design would end up.

The thread derailed real fast into "Look at this fast setup with twin 300's". Yeah, I know. We've all seen that. Obviously it's better. Obviously it's what I would choose. I was just wondering if any builders were trying to do a single 600 build, because so far all I see them on are $500k+ 30'+ boats with 2-4 bolted on.

Ya, some center console boats and RIBS run them. They aren't performance engines because of the gearcase and weight. The gearcase is probably limited to about 85 to 90 MPH. A single 450R would be faster on the same hull.