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Where Will Boat/'Toon Pricing Go as the Pandemic Recedes?

TPC

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We were targeting a 'Toon with twin 400's. Within months the already unreasonable, unnegotiable high price rose an additional $60K.
I carefully choose my special requests and debates with the wife and know better to just lump it for now. Especially with a price jump like that.

What are we probably going to see with pricing over the next 2 years?
(Thanks, but not interested in your used 'toon.)
 

LargeOrangeFont

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The prices won't go down. Manufacturers will add features to drive prices further up. When have new boat/trailer/powersports prices ever gone down? I'm talking assembly line built stuff here that you referenced, not a custom boat builders high on resin fumes.

Coming out of the pandemic people are going to be spending even more money and using these boats they just bought or are buying now for a few years. There are going to be tons of used toons on the market in 5-10 years. and I think the resale on them will be a bit soft.

In short, I see the Toon market turning into the SXS market. The new cutting edge stuff is expensive. 5 year old technology is worth 60% of new.
 
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ONE-A-DAY

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Prices wont go down, and the pandemic ending will have little impact. Many companies have learned that they can run their business with workers being home based and will continue to do so. Productivity goes up, rent goes down, everybody wins. I have many clients that are not renewing their office leases, the rona made them try home based workers and it worked so they are not going back. With this trend continuing people can work from anywhere which includes sitting on the beach watching your kids swim which keeps cost for fun things in life up.
 

Ziggy

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I think some of those that purchased this past year and inundated our waterways will be selling in the next yr or two when other activities they'd normally have been busy with but weren't due to the shut down return and "that boat" just sits taking up space and expense.
 

TPC

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I think some of those that purchased this past year and inundated our waterways will be selling in the next yr or two when other activities they'd normally have been busy with but weren't due to the shut down return and "that boat" just sits taking up space and expense.
Now that's a good take and something to consider.

I remember not too far back Sun Country Marine was selling Wakeboard Boats for $160 - $180K. I forget which line but so big ya launch them the river rises a foot. Nice boat with great sales appeal.

Our sales guy confidentially mentioned to us after one trip buyers remorse setting in was pretty much the MO for these customers.
"That's a big note to service after the blush wears off."
Eventually buyers were willing to take a 30% hit on resale the same month they bought it and still couldn't unload them.
 

SJP

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Now that's a good take and something to consider.

I remember not too far back Sun Country Marine was selling Wakeboard Boats for $160 - $180K. I forget which line but so big ya launch them the river rises a foot. Nice boat with great sales appeal.

Our sales guy confidentially mentioned to us after one trip buyers remorse setting in was pretty much the MO for these customers.
"That's a big note to service after the blush wears off."
Eventually buyers were willing to take a 30% hit on resale the same month they bought it and still couldn't unload them.
I think there is going to be this factor somewhere along the line. When people put pencil to paper on cost per outing and add in maintenance, storage, insurance, and then add in the the variable per trip costs... On this website we have tunnel vision because we are enthusiasts with a preference to performance. The new to average boater or new to havasu / river person is going ? the logic at some point. Same with the performance cat market - 400K + for something you are using 50 hours a season on the high side. There is a group of guys but I do not think it is the norm.

What is the market going to be on a 5 YR Trifecta with 2 X 400? I would say 70% of original purchase price would be a reasonable number for a private party transaction. I cannot see this depreciation happening in todays market if someone puts 15 hours on one and decides boating is not for them.
 

DWC

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New prices aren’t slowing down anytime soon. Current demand is nuts. $250,000 toons don’t even hit the website or sales floor at Horizon. The next 2-3 years the prices will go up quite a bit. Raw materials are skyrocketing and the replacement cost for those will be reflected on the future builds coming out of the factory. Labor costs are going to cause some pressure. I’d imagine there’s decent margin for the manufacturers but they won’t cut into it when the plants are running full speed.
Last thing.. A twin engine toon appears to be the last stop in the evolution for performance boaters. Could be an even larger wave of demand coming soon.:D
 

ONE-A-DAY

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Friend is a mortgage guy here in town, equity lines are blowing up, he cant keep up with the work load.
 
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DWC

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What is the market going to be on a 5 YR Trifecta with 2 X 400? I would say 70% of original purchase price would be a reasonable number for a private party transaction. I cannot see this depreciation happening in todays market if someone puts 15 hours on one and decides boating is not for them.
Agree 100%. Similar to the SXS market. The resale asking price seems to follow the “how much owed” number.
 

Doc

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Prices wont go down, and the pandemic ending will have little impact. Many companies have learned that they can run their business with workers being home based and will continue to do so. Productivity goes up, rent goes down, everybody wins. I have many clients that are not renewing their office leases, the rona made them try home based workers and it worked so they are not going back. With this trend continuing people can work from anywhere which includes sitting on the beach watching your kids swim which keeps cost for fun things in life up.
I think you're right for the most part. I think though there is a good chance that 50% of these companies will start having productivity issues with their "work at home" staff and reconsider. I've already seen/heard cases of people doing their work in the evening because they are out during the day like you said maybe on the beach or what not that is hurting the business. It's going to be up to the employer to choose if the over head they saved not having an office vs possible revenue loss works out for their company or not. I think the next 12-18 months will determine the long term decision on some of these places.
 

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I think some of those that purchased this past year and inundated our waterways will be selling in the next yr or two when other activities they'd normally have been busy with but weren't due to the shut down return and "that boat" just sits taking up space and expense.
Agreed. When kids sports are on all cylinders and people want to start taking those expensive vacations again, they will eventually dump the boat.
 

Dan Lorenze

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I think some of those that purchased this past year and inundated our waterways will be selling in the next yr or two when other activities they'd normally have been busy with but weren't due to the shut down return and "that boat" just sits taking up space and expense.
I totally agree.. People are going to get back on airplanes and go on their regular vacations and kids sports are going to be back in full swing. Recreational vehicle sales will slow down and the price of used boats, Side by Sides, motorcycle will decrease because the demand will be lighter.
 

DWC

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Don't forget gas prices are going up! They should be hitting 5 dollar range everywhere here in the next few months. That will slow down a percentage of boaters this year.
The only good thing about high gas prices! It won’t slow down our days on the water. Can’t say it won’t cut the number of trips to Topock or the Springs though.
 

DWC

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It's all Farked.

Strolled through a local Ford Dealer. F150 MSRP 79k!!!!! WTF!!!!!
Went and looked a new ride for my wife last night. Used car, all the bells/whistles/features/color she’s looking for. Got there and the F’g dealership does a $2,500 “ceramic coat” and $500 theft protection on EVERY car on the lot. Asked them to take off the extras and come down a little on the price. No deal. Still looking..
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Don't forget gas prices are going up! They should be hitting 5 dollar range everywhere here in the next few months. That will slow down a percentage of boaters this year.
Wrong. Channel is just going to be full. And you might see a few new toons with sails on them.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Went and looked a new ride for my wife last night. Used car, all the bells/whistles/features/color she’s looking for. Got there and the F’g dealership does a $2,500 “ceramic coat” and $500 theft protection on EVERY car on the lot. Asked them to take off the extras and come down a little on the price. No deal. Still looking..
My friend ran into that at HB Ford buying his 2021 F250. They added ceramic coating and one of those digital license plates. He got them down to $500 extra for all that crap. He wanted the truck too badly to walk away.

Another friend used to sell BMWs and is now retired. He has got the funniest stories of how he got people to pay for the "ceramic" coatings. He told one person the ceramic coating was made from a serum derived from the placenta of a black sheep.... It really just came from a giant tub of car wax.
 
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LuauLounge

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I believe
Went and looked a new ride for my wife last night. Used car, all the bells/whistles/features/color she’s looking for. Got there and the F’g dealership does a $2,500 “ceramic coat” and $500 theft protection on EVERY car on the lot. Asked them to take off the extras and come down a little on the price. No deal. Still looking..
Hey, it's only an extra $40 a month for the next 6 years
 

DWC

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I believe


Hey, it's only an extra $40 a month for the next 6 years
Pretty much. Always funny. Sales person was very nice young lady. She did her best. Kept asking what i wanted the payment to be. Kept telling her again, price on the car, trade in value and I’ll figure it out. Was kinda shocked when they wouldn’t move off the price. It’s been on the lot a little while but one of 3 with the options included. No biggie, we’ll wait for the next one.
 

Done-it-again

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You guys give the "new" uneducated boater to much credit.

They don't maintain/service anything, So how many years can they get by? 3-4-5? not doing maintenance and only fixing it when it breaks.

You think hey have insurance too? really! Majority of boaters don't even have tow boat service and that's the cheapest item for a boat.

I believe you will see broken boats for sale as the uneducated boater will sell it cause they might not have the funds to fix the engine or drive.
 

PlanB

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My friend ran into that at HB Ford buying his 2021 F250. They added ceramic coating and one of those digital license plates. He got them down to $500 extra for all that crap. He wanted the truck too badly to walk away.

My friend used to sell BMWs and is now retired. He has got the funniest stories of how he got people to pay for the "ceramic" coatings
The last car we bought for the wife, the dealer tried to get us for more than 3K in add on BS. We had agreed to a price over the phone and the dealer was 100 miles away. I ended up paying the original agreed upon price. They kept trying to negotiate and I just told them I would walk. Sleazy ass car salesman...
 

LargeOrangeFont

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You guys give the "new" uneducated boater to much credit.

They don't maintain/service anything, So how many years can they get by? 3-4-5? not doing maintenance and only fixing it when it breaks.

You think hey have insurance too? really! Majority of boaters don't even have tow boat service and that's the cheapest item for a boat.

I believe you will see broken boats for sale as the uneducated boater will sell it cause they might not have the funds to fix the engine or drive.
If you finance a boat it has to be at least insured right?
 

DWC

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Another friend used to sell BMWs and is now retired. He has got the funniest stories of how he got people to pay for the "ceramic" coatings. He told one person the ceramic coating was made from a serum derived from the placenta of a black sheep.... It really just came from a giant tub of car wax.
Best part about it was the car was dirty AF.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Best part about it was the car was dirty AF.
You don't understand.. that is the coating doing its job. After we wash it it will be magically clean.
 
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farmo83

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Agreed. When kids sports are on all cylinders and people want to start taking those expensive vacations again, they will eventually dump the boat.
Agree

I think once people can travel again boating will cool off some, it won't be enough to lower prices a lot but the market will cool off.
 
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76sanger

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I would bet on them coming down in the third year of Biden's illegitimate presidency. The pandemic has meant nothing in determining prices for most goods/products. My guess is that "after" the second year he or who ever is the president at that time (Harris) probably will really start impacting the economy with much greater inflation. As well lets not forget the gas prices are more than likely going to keep rising. I think this "pandemic" is Childs play compared to what is coming down the road. This administration is not America first, America nationalism first. They are globalism and United nations first and foremost. (Socialism) Government rules all!
 

SOCALCRICKETT

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It blows my mind at how toy prices have gone as high as they have so quick. My wife and I toyed with the idea of selling the formula and downsizing to something a little smaller, but after hearing of long build times, and boats bringing 40-60% over what they did 2 years ago, we will just keep what we have. No payments, and the boat is absolutely flawless, what would I really be gaining out of changing toys, looks like I'll be spending the toy money on upgrades to the house

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk
 

scottchbrite

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Prices wont go down, and the pandemic ending will have little impact. Many companies have learned that they can run their business with workers being home based and will continue to do so. Productivity goes up, rent goes down, everybody wins. I have many clients that are not renewing their office leases, the rona made them try home based workers and it worked so they are not going back. With this trend continuing people can work from anywhere which includes sitting on the beach watching your kids swim which keeps cost for fun things in life up.
This is partially true from experience. My wife is still cranking out new leases and lease renewals. True, some tenants have downsized or are planning on some sort of restructuring. They’re finding out who’s truly able to productively work from home still and some employees miss the office and getting out of the house. For example, her assistants, for years have made comments about how nice it must be to work from home (my wife does 2/3 days a week). They all got the opportunity during the first lockdown and within months wanted to get back to the office. The ladies were missing the gossip and wanted the break from their home life. This next down turn in the economy will be interesting to see what transpires.
 

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I know on a 2021 wave runner, price is MSRP +$2600 + T&L..... no stock with guys on waiting list. Crazy!
 

HB2Havasu

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@TPC unfortunately I don't think you will see prices flatten or recede as long as the Biden Administration keeps the Printing Presses working 24/7. As with every country that has ever tried to adopt socialism, the inflated currency will at some point turn to hyper-inflation right before the eventual collapse. (I pray I'm wrong on this) When/If that actually happens depends on what happens during the Mid Term elections in 2022.

I'm having the same issues trying to buy a new family toy hauler to replace ours that was stolen last year. Prices have risen 20%-30% since the Rona came to fruition. Todays discounted prices were last years MSRP prices. :eek:
 
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lakemadness

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We have a staffing division within my business. We just landed a large contract to provide staff to a top end pontoon builder. They can’t crank em out fast enough. Demand will remain high and prices aren’t coming down.
 

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everybody can buy a boat and a second house in havasu but when the home loan adjust and the boat breaks down and the annual service is due 1000 And the credit cards are maxed . then I start buying again good luck in the next 6 months it’s going to hit hard
 

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Supply and demand. Covid has caused shortages and with that prices go up. Look at lumber prices. When covid is over and inventory is back to a stable normal, prices should come down. I bought some equipment last year in May for $15K. Same equipment now would cost me $22K. Heard a month ago the equipment manufacture may run out of engines for their products because it's hard to get them.
 
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gqchris

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If you finance a boat it has to be at least insured right?
Nope. Does not.

Although a boat is one of the few things I have never financed personally, (hence why they are older than dirt!)when I sold them at LBYS, none of the banks required it.

Hell. My recent CanAm. Bank could have cared less. They never asked or required.

Mileage may vary for subprime borrowers. Even a GPS requirement.
 

530RL

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I have no idea about used pricing but it is hard to imagine how new pricing goes down.

There are huge tariffs on of most the inputs from steel to aluminum to wood products. And the consumer always pays those cost increases.

Good Labor is impossible to find and if you have it you have to keep paying more to keep it.

Just look at the steel building thread. We’re talking quarterly price increases not annual. Look at the threads relating to building a garage or a new home or a remodel. Costs just keep going up.

Beats me but the government says there is no inflation? 🤷🤷🤷
 
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buck35

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I have no idea about used pricing but it is hard to imagine how new pricing goes down.

There are huge tariffs on of most the inputs from steel to aluminum to wood products. And the consumer always pays those cost increases.

Good Labor is impossible to find and if you have it you have to keep paying more to keep it.

Just look at the steel building thread. We’re talking quarterly price increases not annual. Look at the threads relating to building a garage or a new home or a remodel. Costs just keep going up.

Beats me but the government says there is no inflation? 🤷🤷🤷
I thought that was all trump's fault and he's out of the picture.... who's to blame now?
 
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