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While We Tend To Blame Teachers...

monkeyswrench

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Some parents are to blame also, and some teachers really do try.

My wife is a kindergarten teacher. Been doing it for 21 years. She's worked with kids and families from all walks, and all abilities. This year, she has met the one...

Little backround: I'll call him "Billy". Billy has some issues. Not like many of the others she has taught, this one is a bit different. Usually, kids have triggers, or things that they don't like to do. No big deal, you find a work around, and get them "on track". Well, not little Billy. He can be fine, even a sweet child...and then a switch flips, and he is angry, and even violent. 20min later though, he can be fine again. Several weeks ago, Billy threw a pencil, hitting a girl in the face. 6yo Billy was sent to the office, and suspended for the day. Not his first issue, but first suspension. Billy's father, upon receiving the call, proceeded to yell at the principal, and cuss her out...also implying threats of harm. Well, PD was called. They were there, and also went to his home to ask some questions. Well then, he and his wife have been on a terror since.

They have threatened legal action, saying their child is not receiving the services he needs. My wife has already started the testing, to see what special stuff he can get...I'm not really familiar with that stuff. She knows he needs help beyond her abilities, and had been trying. About two weeks ago, this same child she's trying to help, bit her arm. Not just a little, like CSI dental imprint. My wife let that go, as it didn't harm any other student...I would have smacked him.

Well, then there was yesterday. The parents had asked last Thursday, at a big meeting with all kinds of district folk, if the school could make sure their son drank X amount of water per hour. My wife figured that was no big deal. Of course, the parents did not send him with a water bottle. My wife keeps some of the little bottles in her class. She gets him one. He is having trouble opening it, trying to use his teeth. Well, my wife offers to help, he rufused, and tried a bit more. He strains and makes all kinds of noises, and gives up. He puts the bottle down.

Well, as my wife was walking across the row, she picked it up, and twisted the lid loose for him. Little Billy jump on his desk, punched my wife, and yanked the bottle from her hand...splashing it everywhere. This 6yo left a mark on my wife's chest, and made a mess.
Billy was sent home again.

Upon arrival, the mom told my wife, "Well, he didn't ask for help."

Parents excusing F'd up behavior is a problem, not just the students. My wife had been going out of her way, writing letters and doing more than she needed to. Even helping the parents with resources and whatever else she could. That may have ended yesterday.

This kid may become an axe murderer or something. The parents will be those that say, "He was such a good kid. We never saw anything like that from him"
 

WYRD

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He sounds more like a "Johnny" than a "Billy".

In a politically correct environment you will never be able to win against people like this. We all know what really needs to happen yet civilized society would never allow it to. Unfortunate, but true.

 

Mike K

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No consequences are the problem. Parents are crappy at parenting ... not their fault ... someone else’s fault. The school better fix their kid. The school will cater to the problem child and to his parents to avoid the coming lawsuit ... and that of course perpetuates the problem. I went to catholic school ... this stuff never happened ... they would kick us out of school and our parents would kick the crap out of us. Not anymore ... zero responsibility... everyone is a victim. I’m former Marine Corps ... yeah ... you either got your shit together or you end up in the brig. Your poor wife ... You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher.
 

Rayson1971

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What will eventually happen is the school will tell the parents that he is not aloud at the school any more.
 

Motor Boater

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We have friends like this. Their kids can do no wrong. Parents will fight like hell to protect the wrong doing of their child. Makes no sense to me. I point blank tell our teaches that I’m not one of those parents and I want to know if my child is struggling or misbehaving so I can handle it. I think it creates a much better relationship and the teachers appreciate it.
 

Flying_Lavey

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Sounds like another one of the parents needs to punch the dad straight in the face and a good backhand to the mom. I almost got into it with the dad of a little boy in my oldest daughter's pre-school class back in California. The boy was physically bullying quite a few kids in the class and shoved my daughter to the ground a couple times. The first time I let the school address it as it was a new problem at that time. The second time I told her teacher, who was great btw and very helpful, that she needs to make sure the administration does something about the little shit or I'm talking to his parents (everybody knew who his parents were and it was no surprise he was a little shit) and its not going to be nice or pretty. The boy eventually settled down, but the parents were defending his actions every step of the way.
 

TomD

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Your wife is a Saint!!!! Maybe its time for a Parent Teacher conference. Have her lay it on the line with them. It maybe a stretch but for Billy's sake she may think she has to try. Billy might straighten out if he gets the help he needs.

Like I said your wife is a Saint!!!
 

RichL

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Your wife is a Saint!!!! Maybe its time for a Parent Teacher conference. Have her lay it on the line with them. It maybe a stretch but for Billy's sake she may think she has to try. Billy might straighten out if he gets the help he needs.

Like I said your wife is a Saint!!!
Agree.
 

Water Romper

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It sure sounds like little Billy has some mental/chemical imbalance issues and he needs testing and evaluation asap. If my kid were to get hurt and/or receive an injury (ie: pencil to the face) from a kid that has a history of violent outbreaks, me and the school board will have major issues.
Your wife is a "teacher" not a mental therapist, child psychologist or a punching bag- we all know teachers don't make enough money for the crap they have to endure and this is an example of where the system is failing. Billy has serious problems and it sounds like the "apple didn't fall far from the tree" and the parents are either in denial or looking for someone to blame. I bet we have some folks here on RDP that either work or know the system or have experienced this themselves. Remember, there are other children being effected as well.
 

2Driver

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Every kid I knew threw pencils, spitballs and became agitated at times. That's why they invented recess, dodgeball and gym class.

Fuck is everything a disorder now.
 

Inland Air Balance

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My wife is also a Kindergarten (K-5) teacher 20+ years on the job. I keep telling her she should write a book or a movie about the shit she has to put up with from kids to parents alike. Sometimes I just shake my head at the shit she tells me about. Some of it hilarious, some just down right sad. Remember you need a license to drive a car, or own a gun.... but not having kids.
 

Captain Dan

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Can a go-pro video of this little shit's actions be made, or is that illegal?
 

WhatExit?

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The demise of this country's education system is directly related to the adults this country produced after WW2 (and it's "greatest generation).

This country's success following that war created fat, dumb and happy (drunk and high) people who created the 60's generation. They became the parents, politicians and "leaders" and paved the downward slide with Teflon for a faster trip into the abyss that is our country and world today.
 

OLDRAAT

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Your wife needs to tell the parents in front of the school representatives, "asshole Billy's antics need to stop immediately before other kids start mimicking him. And, if he lays a hand or teeth on you again, they will hear from DHS, etc. along with a discussion of possible assault charges"
 

DWC

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I hear the stories from my daughter/neighbors all the time. What a nightmare job depending on the class/students. Agree with @2Driver . 99% of the issues i hear kids have would be solved by spending a month with my dad. The time out and beyond generation is f’d up.
 

Baja 252

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My sister teaches 4th grade. When a troubled kid she has in her class throws a fit and gets out of control, she has to call another teacher to remove all the other kids from her classroom until he settles down. They say removing him from the classroom, just singles him out and makes him feel like he's being picked on.
I'm sure this strategy will pay dividends for him latter in life, NOT. And this is in Kansas, not some lefty state.

I'm so glad my kids are grown and unmarried.
 

Ziggy

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@monkeyswrench
I can't say I've ever blamed the teacher for a child's behavior. Their job is to teach the curriculum not be the parent beyond care and compassion of that child learning what they present.
Parents that expect them to fix what they themselves ignore or gave up on obviously are a lost cause, sadly. So blaming it on someone or something other than themselves is only a way for them to deflect their own shortcomings.
 

monkeyswrench

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Just catching back up...posted this, and went to make some money before my youngest track meet.

The kid does need testing, and my wife has been getting things lined up and going. Imbalanced, bipolar...possibly emotionally disturbed. These things have been mentioned. My wife is not a doctor. She is conflicted, I've never seen her like this. She actually wants the kid to get help, and wants to help him learn....I'd have redlined and blown a gasket already. She knows the disruptions to the class are hurting the other kids. Not just the risk of projectiles.

Now, a view some of us here share. There is no threat of "playground justice" anymore. This kinder, gentler bs has stopped the way I grew up. You stepped out of line, and your peers straightened you out.

As for the parents getting a tune up, I agree. I don't know who they are, or what they look like. I know they live a block from the school, and thus what they drive. Having read some of the emails to my wife, I guessed correctly. Wife was a teacher, husband also has some education.

I felt bad for the parents at first. They did/do want the best for their kid. Then, they started placing blame. It's no one's "fault". He's a kid with issues that need to be addressed. I still feel bad for the kid. He doesn't know what's what, he knows no different. His parents are wasting energy placing blame, instead of moving forward and getting things squared away.

I think working with my hands was a good choice for me. I'd be in jail.
 

AR33

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Yea. None of that should be allowed ever. The admin have to do a better job of protecting the teachers too.
I have a hard rule in my classroom. If you act in a way that is dangerous to myself or my students, you’re not allowed back until it the behavior is fixed or you come apologize to myself and the class. If a parent starts to cuss me out, I hang up on them. I’m not paid enough to be cussed at. If a parent threatens me, I invite them down to the school to talk in person so they can say it to my face. If a parent has concerns about my classroom, I invite them to drop in any time to come observe. They never do, ever.
I find that the more I set the tone with parents, they leave me alone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Inland Air Balance

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Sadly administration and bureaucratic fools have taken and made a hard job even more difficult. Hedge that with the parents that think teachers are supposed to teach their children manners and common sense just means the job is that much harder. If the child doesnt have the basic solid foundation entering school it just means that the childs frustration levels are exceedingly high. Throw in the mix cuts in support staff, parents that dont want to help in class and now having to teach to a zoom screen and have in class kids at the same time. Yea. Good times. 👍
 

wallnutz

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It's funny my nephew had 12 years of bad teachers. Nothing was ever his fault or his single mothers fault. All his bad grades, behavior issues nothing. He had a pretty bad ass teacher his senior year that started setting him straight, wouldn't let him get away with anything. The principal also laid it on the line to him, pretty much said here is a recruiters number, if you want to graduate have him call me.
My point being after saying that, the kid was an asshole his first 18yrs of life because he learned it from his parents. They wanted him put on drugs and I always said no, spank his ass and take privileges away. It took somebody doing that to knock him straight. Now he tells me thats what should have happened when he was younger. He knows he was a spoiled shithead that would get his way.
Now I'm not saying that some kids shouldn't be medicated, there are proven health problems and learning disabilities. But I think a majority of the times the parents are assholes and the kids just learn from them. A good swift kick can cure a lot.
 

monkeyswrench

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most schools don't have the balls to do that.
It's not so much having the want to ditch the student, it's federal guidelines. The Dept. Of Ed states that any child must be serviced to the best of the ability of their home district. Failure to do so is grounds for a law suit. Of course, this only covers kids that have dissabilites though, or some form of IEP thing. .
 

ssc

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Without saying what I really think about today's parents, the school needs to call for an IEP meeting. The kid needs to be assessed. The district should have the school psych involved etc. Additionally, the district does have the right to expel the student if they deem him a danger to other students. Not 100% sure how things work in AZ, but IDEA is a federal law. After the initial IEP meeting, little AH can be set up for various exams. If the AH parents object, then they can apply for a hearing. Depending on his age, the regional center may be involved. As long as the teacher, principal and district keep good records they can set the AH up for a expulsion hearing.

Sounds like the kid, from your general description, may qualify for services based upon SED. How is the little AH doing academically? This could be another issue via the IEP. Frankly, from your info, it sounds like little AH has no problems as far as his parents are concerned, so I would follow the procedures to address this via a disciplinary/ expulsion hearing. The AH parents will sue no matter what. However, if nothing is done and he hurts other children, their parents will sue and the school has a responsibility to the other children. I would be willing to bet that all the other parents are already aware of the little AH, so the district should safeguard the other children and expel the AH vs being sued by all the other parents when their children are hurt.

Just a few thoughts. Unfortunately, this was an area of the law I had to deal with many times in my custody disputes.

PS, give your wife a hug and kiss. She is a saint.

Cheers, Steve
 

monkeyswrench

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Without saying what I really think about today's parents, the school needs to call for an IEP meeting. The kid needs to be assessed. The district should have the school psych involved etc. Additionally, the district does have the right to expel the student if they deem him a danger to other students. Not 100% sure how things work in AZ, but IDEA is a federal law. After the initial IEP meeting, little AH can be set up for various exams. If the AH parents object, then they can apply for a hearing. Depending on his age, the regional center may be involved. As long as the teacher, principal and district keep good records they can set the AH up for a expulsion hearing.

Sounds like the kid, from your general description, may qualify for services based upon SED. How is the little AH doing academically? This could be another issue via the IEP. Frankly, from your info, it sounds like little AH has no problems as far as his parents are concerned, so I would follow the procedures to address this via a disciplinary/ expulsion hearing. The AH parents will sue no matter what. However, if nothing is done and he hurts other children, their parents will sue and the school has a responsibility to the other children. I would be willing to bet that all the other parents are already aware of the little AH, so the district should safeguard the other children and expel the AH vs being sued by all the other parents when their children are hurt.

Just a few thoughts. Unfortunately, this was an area of the law I had to deal with many times in my custody disputes.

PS, give your wife a hug and kiss. She is a saint.

Cheers, Steve
Yes sir, you know the drill. I have been on one side of an IEP, and my wife on both ends. Her students' parents don't usually know that, but that's why my wife knows how it works.
Junior Mint is a pretty smart kid. Academically, maybe a little behind, but nothing that couldn't be overcome with the right teacher...if he settles down.
The district Psych is involved, IEP is rolling and specialists, like OT involved already.

The being a danger to other students will be the avenue if they choose to move him along.

I told my wife, "This kid will make the news someday, if he doesn't get straightened out".
 
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SBMech

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Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child.

You can't possibly think otherwise if you look at students and schools results today.

Quasi-intellectual asshole parents who preach no touch or physical punishment are just idiots.

The reason it works is it forces the child to realize that they are not in control. You are. Humans are inherently evil and lazy, and will go corrupt without a steady hand with love and ass beatings as necessary.
 

DC-88

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My teacher wife for 9-12th grade has been successful over the years fighting the dumb ass counselors and helicopter wanna be buddy parents to get many kids in that age group to ditch/ move toward reality from IEP status they obtained while younger. I wish I could share the emails she gets from crazy, enabling parents pertaining to stupid issues with classes as basic as yearbook , but the worst part is many are parents who in person or from behind the keyboard would preach tough love until it pertained to their little Johnny.
 

HBCraig

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@monkeyswrench
Screw the mom and dad. I applaud you.

One tell tail sign that he might become violet. Un past years they have found that murderers would abused pets as well. Almost all of them
 

TimeBandit

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My mom was a teacher, mostly 4th grade. She went from teaching at public schools to private for exactly this reason.

Some out of control kid pulls a stunt like that? He would be booted from the private school never to return and bother the kids trying to learn.

Bi-Polar kids are not fun to teach. Hazard pay and special training/classrooms need to be involved.
 

stephenkatsea

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Many very good points made here by prior posts. Fault/accountability is learned from the parents. When they are not willing to acknowledge or accept it, so begins the situation and the foundation is laid.
 

petie6464

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Wife's a teacher as well, k through 5th grade, says one in five kids are on behavioral medications. This is insanity, I don't know what all has lead to this but the future looks dim, very dim.
 

Loo Dog

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No consequences are the problem. Parents are crappy at parenting ... not their fault ... someone else’s fault. The school better fix their kid. The school will cater to the problem child and to his parents to avoid the coming lawsuit ... and that of course perpetuates the problem. I went to catholic school ... this stuff never happened ... they would kick us out of school and our parents would kick the crap out of us. Not anymore ... zero responsibility... everyone is a victim. I’m former Marine Corps ... yeah ... you either got your shit together or you end up in the brig. Your poor wife ... You couldn’t pay me enough to be a teacher.
Catholic school as well, made it thru 2nd grade terrorizing the Sisters and getting my ass beat at home before my folks decided to throw me into public school. Never got suspended or in any trouble after that. Ended up in the Corps myself, maybe there’s a blueprint there!
 

Dettom

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Some parents are to blame also, and some teachers really do try.

My wife is a kindergarten teacher. Been doing it for 21 years. She's worked with kids and families from all walks, and all abilities. This year, she has met the one...

Little backround: I'll call him "Billy". Billy has some issues. Not like many of the others she has taught, this one is a bit different. Usually, kids have triggers, or things that they don't like to do. No big deal, you find a work around, and get them "on track". Well, not little Billy. He can be fine, even a sweet child...and then a switch flips, and he is angry, and even violent. 20min later though, he can be fine again. Several weeks ago, Billy threw a pencil, hitting a girl in the face. 6yo Billy was sent to the office, and suspended for the day. Not his first issue, but first suspension. Billy's father, upon receiving the call, proceeded to yell at the principal, and cuss her out...also implying threats of harm. Well, PD was called. They were there, and also went to his home to ask some questions. Well then, he and his wife have been on a terror since.

They have threatened legal action, saying their child is not receiving the services he needs. My wife has already started the testing, to see what special stuff he can get...I'm not really familiar with that stuff. She knows he needs help beyond her abilities, and had been trying. About two weeks ago, this same child she's trying to help, bit her arm. Not just a little, like CSI dental imprint. My wife let that go, as it didn't harm any other student...I would have smacked him.

Well, then there was yesterday. The parents had asked last Thursday, at a big meeting with all kinds of district folk, if the school could make sure their son drank X amount of water per hour. My wife figured that was no big deal. Of course, the parents did not send him with a water bottle. My wife keeps some of the little bottles in her class. She gets him one. He is having trouble opening it, trying to use his teeth. Well, my wife offers to help, he rufused, and tried a bit more. He strains and makes all kinds of noises, and gives up. He puts the bottle down.

Well, as my wife was walking across the row, she picked it up, and twisted the lid loose for him. Little Billy jump on his desk, punched my wife, and yanked the bottle from her hand...splashing it everywhere. This 6yo left a mark on my wife's chest, and made a mess.
Billy was sent home again.

Upon arrival, the mom told my wife, "Well, he didn't ask for help."

Parents excusing F'd up behavior is a problem, not just the students. My wife had been going out of her way, writing letters and doing more than she needed to. Even helping the parents with resources and whatever else she could. That may have ended yesterday.

This kid may become an axe murderer or something. The parents will be those that say, "He was such a good kid. We never saw anything like that from him"
My wife is a speech therapist. She meets asshole parents like that all the time. Theres a lot of people breeding more kids, that shouldn’t. Most of them should have wore a fkn condom. She’s met many who grew up to be inmates, serving right along side their POS, mouthbreeder parents. Thankfully, she’s retiring on 7/1/21.
 

Willie B

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...My mother had been a second grade teacher in Illinois before she and my father moved to California ...probably had a lot to do with me doing OK in school...
...She didn’t have any rotten kid stories but she went out to use the outhouse...Correct an out house... this was a very long time ago...she looked up and the classroom was on fire... she got a big write up in the newspaper for saving a bunch of children’s lives... she got them out of there👍...
 

Nanu/Nanu

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@monkeyswrench your wife can not be thanked enough along with anyone else's wives or family members that have too put up with this. But on another note, there is a school in Prescott called Trinity Christian School. Ever heard of it? Well we are in the process of getting our oldest ready for kindergarten there. I know they are looking for teachers not sure what quals or certs are needed but this may be up her alley. In the information packet about the school it clearly states if the parents are not going to align themselves with the vision and values of the school and teachers they will need to withdraw their child. It's private which also (I believe) makes parents toe the line more. Just thought I'd share with you.
 

Flying_Lavey

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Wife's a teacher as well, k through 5th grade, says one in five kids are on behavioral medications. This is insanity, I don't know what all has lead to this but the future looks dim, very dim.
Many reasons, but likely the biggest is one mentioned several times here already...... most younger parents are under the impression and are told that you can no longer spank a child so the kid keeps going crazy because there are no real repercussions that they know of. But, parents CAN spank children and it does work on some kids (of course mine it doesn't seem to deter them one bit). And before others argue with me on this one, there has been a court case that has stated Corporal punishment is perfectly legal for reprimanding a child within reason (not spanking them til they bleed or effects their walking or what not), I have also been personally told from DCS case workers (Department of Child Services) that it is ok as well.
 

That Guy

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Shitty, entitled parenting is why the country is in the mess it's in now. No accountability, no responsibility, no consequences gets us to where we are today. Please tell your wife thank you......
 

motormonkey

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I went to a fundemental school as a kid. They handed out swats in the pricipals office if you messed around or missed school work. We need to go back to that.
 

squeezer

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Just catching back up...posted this, and went to make some money before my youngest track meet.

The kid does need testing, and my wife has been getting things lined up and going. Imbalanced, bipolar...possibly emotionally disturbed. These things have been mentioned. My wife is not a doctor. She is conflicted, I've never seen her like this. She actually wants the kid to get help, and wants to help him learn....I'd have redlined and blown a gasket already. She knows the disruptions to the class are hurting the other kids. Not just the risk of projectiles.

Now, a view some of us here share. There is no threat of "playground justice" anymore. This kinder, gentler bs has stopped the way I grew up. You stepped out of line, and your peers straightened you out.

As for the parents getting a tune up, I agree. I don't know who they are, or what they look like. I know they live a block from the school, and thus what they drive. Having read some of the emails to my wife, I guessed correctly. Wife was a teacher, husband also has some education.

I felt bad for the parents at first. They did/do want the best for their kid. Then, they started placing blame. It's no one's "fault". He's a kid with issues that need to be addressed. I still feel bad for the kid. He doesn't know what's what, he knows no different. His parents are wasting energy placing blame, instead of moving forward and getting things squared away.

I think working with my hands was a good choice for me. I'd be in jail.


This ^^^

Had a situation with a similar kid in our sons class. We had been with this little shit since Pre-School. He was disruptive and just plain mean. Our Son, who is easily twice the size of this guy was afraid of him and called him "His Bully". (Our guy is 99th percentile height and weight but an absolute softy when it comes to fighting). Sat both kids down and had a talk. The gist of it was that they didnt have to take any crap from this kid. Made it clear that they were expected to ignore his words but not any physical aggression. Fast forward a week or two... I show up to grab the kids from the after-school program and #$%^& is sitting on a bench bleeding. He made the mistake of shoving our daughter while lining up to come inside. Our son made in painfully clear that he was best advised to NEVER touch his sister. The most interesting part of this is the aftercare counselor watched it happen and immediately stepped in and pointed to the step that they both must have tripped over as there was "No way either of them would have tried to hurt someone on purpose...Right!"

The kid steered clear after that.
 
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petie6464

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Many reasons, but likely the biggest is one mentioned several times here already...... most younger parents are under the impression and are told that you can no longer spank a child so the kid keeps going crazy because there are no real repercussions that they know of. But, parents CAN spank children and it does work on some kids (of course mine it doesn't seem to deter them one bit). And before others argue with me on this one, there has been a court case that has stated Corporal punishment is perfectly legal for reprimanding a child within reason (not spanking them til they bleed or effects their walking or what not), I have also been personally told from DCS case workers (Department of Child Services) that it is ok as well.

Definitely part of the problem but not all of it, its definitely mulifactorial.

Good new is there won't be a shortage of janitors or housekeepers in the future.
 

JDKRXW

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Definitely part of the problem but not all of it, its definitely mulifactorial.

Good new is there won't be a shortage of janitors or housekeepers in the future.

You're right and wrong:
Definitely lots of things caused this problem.....but none of these 'problems' will stoop to janitorial or housekeeping professionals.
 
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