Whipped or 540?

[Gasnsuntanlotion]

I've been thinking more power for the Bullet. She does 80 all day but getting the itch for more. The engine was a 500 efi and was refreshed at Teague before I got it. It basically got made into a 525 but with the internals to make it an 825hp with a blower at a later date. 14 G though! I also checked into making it a 540 which would put out about 675-700hp and is about 8000 G. My drive is an xr which is probably pushing it with any of those 2 options but can worry about that later. Any pros, cons? Going to a 540? Ateco engines gives a 2 year warranty on there 540 mod. Any input would be great!

Thanks,
Wes

 

[Cole Trickle]

I would trust a 14k whipper job by Teague quite a bit more than a 540 from a smaller unknown company.

It would take great heads and a big cam to make a real world 650-700 hp 540.

 

[ltbaney1]

Both are good options.BUT.......there is NO replacement for displacement:skull

 

[BUSTI]

Well since the motor will need a complete rebuild with new heads, rods and pistons I'd say do a 509 whipple deal from Teague. It's $15k for a basic Teague rebuild plus $10-$12K for a whipple package. Then the rigging for the cooler. Plus removal and replacement. Plan on $30 to have an 825 horse package. It's not cheap and Teague will not put a their name on it if it's not right.

 

[Enen]

Doing it cheap = doing it twice.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

Both are good options.BUT.......there is NO replacement for displacement:skull

Except rectangular dollars ...

 

[Cole Trickle]

I believe this was the beautiful 25 bullet closed deck that sold here. The motor was already re built for the whipple.

I think 14k was the cost to do it with Teague with all top notch rigging and equipment.

 

[Bowtiepower00]

Seeing as how the long block was already set up to add the whipple at a later date, I would let Teague add the blower. ATECO builds solid engines, but the name recognition does not compare to Teague, particularly on the west coast. You will get the price difference back if/when you sell the boat.

 

[Gasnsuntanlotion]

I'm was leaning toward doing the whipple then found out ide have to do hatch mods. No biggie. But I would have to haul it 20hrs to Cali from B.C. So Teague could do it. That's when I looked into other options.

 

[Gasnsuntanlotion]

I believe this was the beautiful 24 closed deck that sold here. The motor was already re built for the whipple.

I think 14k was the cost to do it with Teague with all top notch rigging and equipment.

Ya, I talked to Bob and that's what he quoted me. 14k. Cam, heads the top end is ready. Just need the compressor and programming.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Boost will make more power than 40 more cubes....way more power, and in the rpm range you want it. Do the whipple

 

[Sigus]

I went the other direction with complete new naturally aspirated 632. Money no option rigging and build.

Original motor was merc 525. Although I am happy where I landed if I had to do it over I would have tricked out the 525 and had Bob slap a Whipple on it.

Good luck and have fun with what ever your decision.

Sig

 

[Outdrive1]

If I had that choice I'd go Whipple. You make so much more torque lower in the rpm band. That's what sticks you in the seat when you put the stick down.

 

[lineman's holiday]

I've been thinking more power for the Bullet. She does 80 all day but getting the itch for more. The engine was a 500 efi and was refreshed at Teague before I got it. It basically got made into a 525 but with the internals to make it an 825hp with a blower at a later date. 14 G though! I also checked into making it a 540 which would put out about 675-700hp and is about 8000 G. My drive is an xr which is probably pushing it with any of those 2 options but can worry about that later. Any pros, cons? Going to a 540? Ateco engines gives a 2 year warranty on there 540 mod. Any input would be great!

Thanks,
Wes

Think about an scx outdrive, "be nice to your drive" didn't work out more than 10 hrs after my upgrade to 825. Teague did a great job, hands down.

 

[BUSTI]

Ya, I talked to Bob and that's what he quoted me. 14k. Cam, heads the top end is ready. Just need the compressor and programming.

If it's got the heads and is ready just add the Whipple. You'll never regret it.

 

[Gasnsuntanlotion]

Think about an scx outdrive, "be nice to your drive" didn't work out more than 10 hrs after my upgrade to 825. Teague did a great job, hands down.

Isn't Teague drive good for 825?

 

[Gasnsuntanlotion]

If it's got the heads and is ready just add the Whipple. You'll never regret it.

Ya I know. I'll just have to haul it 20 hrs from B.C to Cali. Trying to avoid a trip. With the dollar being shitty towards the US dollar I'll be into it for 30K lol

 

[Uncle Dave]

Isn't Teague drive good for 825?

Preface by saying I have a teague platinum and its great as is my service from Bob and team.

In that no Bravo drive regardless of upgrades really is - no.

Teague does a great job but is still dealing with stock gears.

On a lake you make them live a while - in the ocean 825 and a bravo arent going to last very long.

You put on an SCX and unless someone did it before you on that same model, you'll be be chasing lowers a while and be scrubbing off a bunch of speed in exchange for durability.


UD

 

[Gasnsuntanlotion]

Preface by saying I have a teague platinum and its great as is my service from Bob and team.

In that no Bravo drive regardless of upgrades really is - no.

Teague does a great job but is still dealing with stock gears.

On a lake you make them live a while - in the ocean 825 and a bravo arent going to last very long.

You put on an SCX and unless someone did it before you on that same model, you'll be be chasing lowers a while and be scrubbing off a bunch of speed in exchange for durability.


UD

I boat on lakes. Never hard on the throttle, or try not to be. If I go the blower route. I'll do a drive update the following season.

 

[Uncle Dave]

If your block and heads are setup, you have no choice to build a blower as your compression is already to low to make any real performance without re piston and balancing the short block. The may heads may never work for NA again depending on whats been done to them.

Blowers are awesome when someone else is picking up the checks and you have another boat to use while you are rebuilding something.

Ill be the contrarian and tell you to build big NA.

I had blown boats forever years and I did a lot more boating and lot less maintaining and spending when I went Big NA.

UD

 

[Gasnsuntanlotion]

If your block and heads are setup, you have no choice to build a blower as your compression is already to low to make any real performance without re piston and balancing the short block. The may heads may never work for NA again depending on whats been done to them.

Blowers are awesome when someone else is picking up the checks and you have another boat to use while you are rebuilding something.

Ill the contrarian and tell you to build big NA.

I had blown boats forever years and I did a lot more boating and lot less maintaining and spending when I went Big NA.

UD

I here ya. I was told because of my set up that Teague did that it would be worth more and it would be better to sell this engine and put that towards a 540 efi if that's what I decided. I'm looking for 90 but 100 would be nice on flat water.

 

[ToMorrow44]

Isn't Teague drive good for 825?

Yes. I have a Teague drive behind my 825 and my boat is probably quite a bit heavier than yours. I got well over 200 hours before the lower gears started to pit. Drive it nicely and change the fluid often, you're good to go. An SCX would be bulletproof, but I would just have Teague beef up your XR.

I also would do the whipple. It would suck to make it a 540 then realize the boat will handle more power and you'll want to go faster. The motor was already set up for the whipple, you won't regret it.

 

[obnoxious001]

It would take great heads and a big cam to make a real world 650-700 hp 540.

650 is not beyond reason with just correct heads and proper cam, nothing wild and crazy. I know we didn't dyno yours, but what do you figure it makes, or what do you tell people?

 

[Gasnsuntanlotion]

650 is not beyond reason with just correct heads and proper cam, nothing wild and crazy. I know we didn't dyno yours, but what do you figure it makes, or what do you tell people?

Ateco says there getting 700hp with there modified 525

 

[obnoxious001]

Ateco says there getting 700hp with there modified 525

I was specifically asking Cole Trickle since I built a 548 for their boat, pretty sure it's making respectable power on conservative pump gas compression.

 

[BUSTI]

I was specifically asking Cole Trickle since I built a 548 for their boat, pretty sure it's making respectable power on conservative pump gas compression.

I don't know what set of heads are on that motor but if they half way decent that motor can be 650 HP no problem.

 

[Cole Trickle]

650 is not beyond reason with just correct heads and proper cam, nothing wild and crazy. I know we didn't dyno yours, but what do you figure it makes, or what do you tell people?

I think it's making 650 hp.

I'm not sure the heads are up to the task of making 700hp. I think the cam/carb is a little big for the heads and that's why I can't spin is past 5500.

Killer engine have absolutely zero complaints it makes killer power and I know the tune is super conservative. It's been a turn key and drive it package the last two years...my dad has been using it a bunch lately as I think he's finally comfortable with the boat [emoji106][emoji41]

Next time around it needs a low profile twin turbo kit and 850 hp...lol

 

[obnoxious001]

I think it's making 650 hp.

I'm not sure the heads are up to the task of making 700hp. I think the cam/carb is a little big for the heads and that's why I can't spin is past 5500.

My point was you made a statement that indicated it was difficult to make 650 hp with a 540.

I don't think having the cam or carb too large would limit you to 5500, have you experimented with props?

 

[Cole Trickle]

My point was you made a statement that indicated it was difficult to make 650 hp with a 540.

I don't think having the cam or carb too large would limit you to 5500, have you experimented with props?

His motor was built for boost. I was just thinking it would be a much better combo with the whipple as that was always the plan with the build.

Smaller prop gives me a little rpm but the boat looses mph. I think the meat and potatoes of the power band is below 5500.

 

[Maestro]

Pro Marine built my 540, 793HP on pump gas.

 

[Gasnsuntanlotion]

Pro Marine built my 540, 793HP on pump gas.

Carbed or fuel injected? That's impressive!

 

[Bigbore500r]

Pro Marine built my 540, 793HP on pump gas.

What RPM does it peak at to put up 793hp?

 

[Maestro]

Carb

 

[River Lynchmob]

I think it's making 650 hp.

I'm not sure the heads are up to the task of making 700hp. I think the cam/carb is a little big for the heads and that's why I can't spin is past 5500.

Killer engine have absolutely zero complaints it makes killer power and I know the tune is super conservative. It's been a turn key and drive it package the last two years...my dad has been using it a bunch lately as I think he's finally comfortable with the boat [emoji106][emoji41]

Next time around it needs a low profile twin turbo kit and 850 hp...lol

With a Race Aero system you could make an easy 850...our 27 made 1100 with 15 lbs of boost...I bet at 10 lbs you'd make 900 is on pump gas...your snowball is just going to take a bit of time to get rolling...lol

 

[Maestro]

I remember the dyno sheet had 400hp at 4000rpms I think it topped out at 5500/6000 don't recall.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Pro Marine built my 540, 793HP on pump gas.

Whats it idle at? Thats 1.46 HP per CI. Curious to know the brake specific.

Is that a solid or hydraulic roller?

My Ilmor 710 gets 1.38 on pump and idles at 750

Typically a good conervative combo will yield 1.25 HP or Lb /FT per CI yielding 675 HP from a 540.


Too bad Pro Marine didn't build my friends engine like yours though there are multiple sides to every story.

UD

 

[Maestro]

It was roughly 750/850 rpms at idle. May by a little higher. Had a single 1150 dominator. Hydraulic roller if I recall. New owner stated he's happy with it and got the boat a tad over the century mark.

 

[Maestro]

https://www.facebook.com/brian.j.elsasser/videos/vb.1448508009/10201331649680419/?type=3&theater

 

[Uncle Dave]

It was roughly 750/850 rpms at idle. May by a little higher. Had a single 1150 dominator. Hydraulic roller if I recall. New owner stated he's happy with it and got the boat a tad over the century mark.

Looks great, but Im surprised hes getting that HP/CI off a manifold like that.

To get 1.38 Ilmor needed 7500.00 in custom tube headers.

If those numbers are real thats exceptional.

Most marine engine builders struggle to get over 1.3 with high 1.3's being quite rare in a boat that runs on pump gas and idles well and has a reasonable valve train life.

1.46?

I'm skeptical based on how a friend of mines build has gone, but everyone has their sweet spot.

Can you tell us the owner and boat?

UD

 

[Maestro]

I owned it and sold the boat. Due to recession hit

 

[Andy01]

650 is not beyond reason with just correct heads and proper cam, nothing wild and crazy. I know we didn't dyno yours, but what do you figure it makes, or what do you tell people?

Ateco says there getting 700hp with there modified 525

Remember it is rumored that most 525's that are old and tired thrown on a dyno will yield 600 hp or close to it. So making power of them is easy as they start pretty high.

Looks great, but Im surprised hes getting that HP/CI off a manifold like that.



UD

Yeah I noticed the manifolds as well, I was like wow.


Ship the boat to Teague, have them do the whipple. they've already worked on the boat, they've done A LOT of those kits. You won't regret it and the resale value will be higher with Teagues stamp on it.