Who is at Fault?

[MoreyMcC]

I am Boating down Whiskey Slough headed towards the Marina. I turn a corner and 1/2 mile ahead is a boat pulling a Inner tube. I slow down to 35 just to stay on plane, now I’m close and can see 3 small children on the Tube and the driver is hugging the right side of the Channel which is very narrow. So I start to pass on the Left as soon as I get beside there boat They do a U turn and sling the tube right at me. Thank God we missed! But it was very close! I kept going and trailered the boat. As I was covering A Lady walls up and ask if I was the driver of the boat? I said yes! She said I was driving to fast and came out of nowhere and almost killed her Children. I asked her who was the spotter for the kids on tube that didn’t see me coming behind and allowed the driver to turn left right in to me.

 

[MrMayhem]

Don’t know the area. But if it’s as narrow as you say, I would have anticipated the guy making random turns, and waited until I had more room to pass. Don’t think you did anything wrong, but you always need to be thinking the other guy may be a knucklehead.


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[monkeyswrench]

No harm, no foul. I think you were good. When I pull a tube, I don't rely on the spotter. I always look for myself before I turn. If he wasn't aware of a boat on his Six, he's a dumbass...
but this is just my opinion.

 

[Singleton]

You were boat that was overtaking another.
based on description, tow boat was in your danger zone and has right of way
your at fault, if anything bad would of occurred

 

[Flatsix66]

They were the Stand-on vessel, they should have kept course and speed as you passed. That said, it sounds like they didn't see you or were aware of you. You could have sounded a horn and waited for their acknowledgement (I doubt that would ever happen). Ultimately you are responsible for your speed to be safe for the condition, being that it was close but missed it sounds like you are good Did they have a flag and observer? How far away were you, I think you need 100ft . No matter the rules, if you would have hurt those kids you would have been fucked (liability, legal, lawsuits, guilt)! Best stay away from people towing, you just have to expect they are stupid.

 

[MK1MOD0]

Thankfully you were paying attention. The other driver obviously was not. I always assume the other driver is an idiot. Too many times they are. People just don’t use common sense or pay enough attention all that often.

 

[DWC]

People towing tubes and PWC’s always have the right of way, especially when you’re coming up from behind. Mostly because you never know what they’re going to do. Sometimes zig, sometimes zag, full 180 and head back at you. It applies even more to this season. There are so many people new to the lake/hobby.

 

[Danger Dave]

Without knowing the race and political affiliation of all parties it would be inappropriate to comment.

 

[MoreyMcC]

You were boat that was overtaking another.
based on description, tow boat was in your danger zone and has right of way
your at fault, if anything bad would of occurred

Holy Shit! Thank You!

 

[TrollerDave]

 

[liquid addiction]

I’m kind of familiar with that area and many parts of the delta that are the same. Whenever I come up on a boat pulling especially tubes, I slow it down and stay behind. Just like said above A boat pulling a tube makes quick changes and usually has younger kids on them. I’ll just stay back and make sure I can see in case a rider comes off then acknowledge the downed rider and then slowly pass. I don’t know how I would be able to handle running over someone so that I can make it back to the ramp a few minutes sooner. JMO

I can also say I have saw a few times a tube gets wiped into the rocks in those narrow spots.

 

[Bullet28]

I’m familiar somewhat with that area, I boat all over the Delta and have ran across that situation many times. I usually wait them out because I don’t trust anyone else . I have though made the move and was all good, glad no one got hurt.

 

[Shlbyntro]

People towing tubes and PWC’s always have the right of way, especially when you’re coming up from behind. Mostly because you never know what they’re going to do. Sometimes zig, sometimes zag, full 180 and head back at you. It applies even more to this season. There are so many people new to the lake/hobby.

If by they have the right of way, you mean that you expect them to be idiots and keep a clear distance anyway, I completely agree. But the vessel with the least amount of maneuverability has the right of way, usually meaning that the PWC should yield to a boat. Just like a power boat should yield to a boat under sail. But we all need to share the water especially when it's a smaller water way.

I recall an incident from a little over a year ago to where I was motoring down lake at about 10nauts in my cruiser and there were some 30+ ft sailboats in the vicinity sailing against wind and tacking back and forth, so I did the courteous thing and hugged the shoreline to allow for them to tac. One of the sailors decided to press his right of way on me just for the fuck of it and nearly pushed me into the rocks, mind you I'm navigating this waterway and trying to pay all of them the same common courtesy and not moving very fast myself.

I purposely pointed my bow at him and hammered the throttles to let him know to fuck off and he quickly changed his course. I had 20ft width worth of water, he had over 200yards. I later found out what sailing club he belonged to and politely made known who I was through the grapevine and asked the he be more courteous of other boaters on the water. I actually received an apology from him 6 weeks later.

Just because you have the right of way does not give you an excuse to be an asshole or act like you own the water way, especially when your on inland waters.

Sounds like you had an idiot boater on your hands to me but no harm no foul, Everyone's safe!

 

[Sherpa]

I know the area very well......... but something didn't make sense to me........ you were going to overtake the other boat......

if you had been following behind them, and were overtaking by passing on the left, and then they did a U turn and the tube was close to colliding with you boat, you would have been infront of them by that point....... If I'm understanding proper driving.......

Whiskey Slough is very narrow..... we've skied and tubed and everything along the route....

if you infact already infront of them, then it was their fault.......

or, if they turned infront of you, and you were close to their tube, the rope would have been infront of you between the boat and the tube.

personally I would have just waited a little longer till getting to another channel to pass them. or stop, relax for a few mins, and then get going again.


please elaborate......

--Sherpa

 

[JDKRXW]

I know the area very well......... but something didn't make sense to me........ you were going to overtake the other boat......

if you had been following behind them, and were overtaking by passing on the left, and then they did a U turn and the tube was close to colliding with you boat, you would have been infront of them by that point....... If I'm understanding proper driving.......

Whiskey Slough is very narrow..... we've skied and tubed and everything along the route....

if you infact already infront of them, then it was their fault.......

or, if they turned infront of you, and you were close to their tube, the rope would have been infront of you between the boat and the tube.

personally I would have just waited a little longer till getting to another channel to pass them. or stop, relax for a few mins, and then get going again.


please elaborate......

--Sherpa

This.
If you come up from behind this guy on his left side with the intent of passing him....HE is the stand on vessel and he's supposed to hold his course until you're safely past him.
Considering these kids in the tube have idiots for parents...it's better to stay back.

 

[Bullet28]

I know the area very well......... but something didn't make sense to me........ you were going to overtake the other boat......

if you had been following behind them, and were overtaking by passing on the left, and then they did a U turn and the tube was close to colliding with you boat, you would have been infront of them by that point....... If I'm understanding proper driving.......

Whiskey Slough is very narrow..... we've skied and tubed and everything along the route....

if you infact already infront of them, then it was their fault.......

or, if they turned infront of you, and you were close to their tube, the rope would have been infront of you between the boat and the tube.

personally I would have just waited a little longer till getting to another channel to pass them. or stop, relax for a few mins, and then get going again.


please elaborate......

--Sherpa

I read that a couple of times and thought the same as you, it wasn’t making sense to me.

 

[77charger]

You were boat that was overtaking another.
based on description, tow boat was in your danger zone and has right of way
your at fault, if anything bad would of occurred

unfortunately true.I hate coming up on sit downs not knowing what they are gonna do i just fall way back now.

 

[Sherpa]

there's a short section of Whiskey Slough that is a dead-end canal....... you get within say 300 yards of the end and there's an opening between the reeds where everyone makes a u turn of sorts, but instead of heading backing the same canal section you stay in a different canal that has some very cool

"S" turns in it.!!!!!!!! it's totally Jame Bond time in those...!!

--I'm doubting this situation occurred in that channel section.

 

[SBMech]

You were boat that was overtaking another.
based on description, tow boat was in your danger zone and has right of way
your at fault, if anything bad would of occurred

You are wrong. When they changed course in the middle of the channel in traffic, they were not in right of way anymore.

You can't just change direction randomly.

Towing children makes them extra stupid.

 

[RiverDave]

No harm, no foul. I think you were good. When I pull a tube, I don't rely on the spotter. I always look for myself before I turn. If he wasn't aware of a boat on his Six, he's a dumbass...
but this is just my opinion.

Morally agreed

 

[RiverDave]

This conversation has happened before and I believe you would “legally” be at fault.

 

[MoreyMcC]

I know the area very well......... but something didn't make sense to me........ you were going to overtake the other boat......

if you had been following behind them, and were overtaking by passing on the left, and then they did a U turn and the tube was close to colliding with you boat, you would have been infront of them by that point....... If I'm understanding proper driving.......

Whiskey Slough is very narrow..... we've skied and tubed and everything along the route....

if you infact already infront of them, then it was their fault.......

or, if they turned infront of you, and you were close to their tube, the rope would have been infront of you between the boat and the tube.

personally I would have just waited a little longer till getting to another channel to pass them. or stop, relax for a few mins, and then get going again.


please elaborate......

--Sherpa

They turned when my bow was just to the back of there boat so when the tube came around I could see the kids faces! As they just missed my boat.

 

[bocco]

I launch there all the time. It gets very narrow as you get closer to the Marina. For some reason people love to put their kids in harms way by tubing in very busy areas. You will also see tubers in Indian Slough right out side of Disco Bay. This is where the big ballers with Skaters are rolling in and out. Empire Cut, which is close by has plenty of room to tube.

 

[jailbird141]

This needs to be settled in the "Docktagon".

 

[BoatCop]

Two factors here. And the fact that the other boat was towing, or was a PWC, i.e. more or less maneuverable, are not among those factors.

One: The area in a zone directly ahead to 22.5 degrees abaft your beam (ahead or to your right) is your "danger zone". Any vessel entering or occupying that zone is the stand-on vessel and has "right away".

Two: If you are going faster than a vessel ahead of you and intend to overtake them, YOU must control your vessel and have full responsibility for any collision, until you are completely past them. (This next point is word for word from inland and international Navigation Rules)

"Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear."

What that last sentence essentially says is that, even though it's pretty stupid for that boat off your starboard side to turn left in front of you, it is their right to do so, and YOU have to watch out for them, and take evasive action if they do.

 

[Singleton]

You are wrong. When they changed course in the middle of the channel in traffic, they were not in right of way anymore.

You can't just change direction randomly.

Towing children makes them extra stupid.

nope, I am 100% accurate!
go read what Boatcop posted.

 

[lake p.a.l.]

Morey, much easier to roll back off plane, have a water, relax a minute or two, then finish your day & everyone is happy & safe. Too many idiots putting their kids & themselves in unsafe positions. I've boated with you & I'm certain you were doing everything you could to be safe.

 

[BoatCop]

And just for argument sake, let's say that you are going faster, overtaking that boat with you on their starboard side. Them to your left, and you to their right. Even though at some point you might enter their "danger zone", since you are overtaking them YOU still have collision avoidance responsibility, as you are overtaking them.

 

[Taboma]

Thanks again BoatCop for providing an obviously much needed reiteration of the rules.
"Boater's education, we don't need no damned boaters education"
Well, yes, it's pretty obvious, based on the number of incorrect responses to this and almost every similar thread, that we do.

 

[boatpi]

If you guys ever want a legall and 100% accurate response to a question like this just page BoatCop.

 

[MoreyMcC]

Morey, much easier to roll back off plane, have a water, relax a minute or two, then finish your day & everyone is happy & safe. Too many idiots putting their kids & themselves in unsafe positions. I've boated with you & I'm certain you were doing everything you could to be safe.

When I was coming up behind them and they went tight to the right side of the Channel I assumed he was giving me room to pass! Not that he was setting up to do a U turn. The spotter was not watching at all! So yes come off plane listen to some music and wait for them to turn! And also somebody said sound the horn so they for sure see me!

 

[bocco]

I have been stuck behind wake boarders and surfers heading back to whiskey slough. Rude in my opinion. Dangerous because there is two way traffic in a narrow slough. Nothing to do but fall off of plane and set up my fenders and ropes.

 

[Taboma]

When I was coming up behind them and they went tight to the right side of the Channel I assumed he was giving me room to pass! Not that he was setting up to do a U turn. The spotter was not watching at all! So yes come off plane listen to some music and wait for them to turn! And also somebody said sound the horn so they for sure see me!

Not relative to who's at fault, but what I'm struggling to picture is this. If the boat towing and being overtaken was hugging the right bank and you were passing on the left, and he swung to the left to make the turn --- how was the tube not slung to the outside, or away from you during his turn ?

 

[ElAzul]

Ahhh man the Slough they brings back memories we had a cabin cruiser there for a couple years a long time ago

 

[Apex svt]

My buddy is just getting into boating. I told him to always assume that the person in front of you is a F’ing moron. X2 if it’s a water roach.

 

[MoreyMcC]

Not relative to who's at fault, but what I'm struggling to picture is this. If the boat towing and being overtaken was hugging the right bank and you were passing on the left, and he swung to the left to make the turn --- how was the tube not slung to the outside, or away from you during his turn ?

I’m passing on his left side and he turns towards me which slung the tube around right at me. Meaning he turned In between me and his right side!

 

[hallett21]

I’m passing on his left side and he turns towards me which slung the tube around right at me. Meaning he turned In between me and his right side!

From what you’re describing that’s a hell of a turn lol


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[Taboma]

I’m passing on his left side and he turns towards me which slung the tube around right at me. Meaning he turned In between me and his right side!

I probably need more coffee

A. You're overtaking on his left (Or perhaps the tube's left at this time during the pass) B. He turns to the left C. The tube falls off inside to the left, in front of you, instead of being whipped by centrifugal force to the outside right (Which may have occurred later, or didn't at all due to slow towing speed).

Am I warm ??

Anyway, don't mean to continue to whoop-ass on the already deceased pony.

 

[3queens]

always in arms reach

 

[Ziggy]

This season has been crazy stupid with unaware boaters pulling tubes.
Makes me wanna put a big inflatable ring around my vessel, like a giant bumper car.
Keep your heads on a swivel guys, they are all amongst us

 

[stephenkatsea]

Rules of the Road uses "stand on" and "give way" terminologies. When over taking another vessel you are the "give way" vessel and shall not pass near or impede the progress of the vessel you are overtaking. The over taken "stand on" vessel shall maintain their course and speed. Of course, in the real world and particularly when tube towing is involved, it is never like what is written in the book. Doesn't really matter though, if you're passing another boat you do not have "the right of way".

In more clear terms - When over taking another vessel, stay clear and be ready for them to do something stupid.

 

[LHC Kirby]

I probably need more coffee

A. You're overtaking on his left (Or perhaps the tube's left at this time during the pass) B. He turns to the left C. The tube falls off inside to the left, in front of you, instead of being whipped by centrifugal force to the outside right (Which may have occurred later, or didn't at all due to slow towing speed).

Am I warm ??

Anyway, don't mean to continue to whoop-ass on the already deceased pony.

THANK YOU ... I was getting a headache trying to understand why this question wasn’t asked on post #2 (no official reference to post #2)

 

[Roaddawg]

I probably need more coffee [emoji16]

A. You're overtaking on his left (Or perhaps the tube's left at this time during the pass) B. He turns to the left C. The tube falls off inside to the left, in front of you, instead of being whipped by centrifugal force to the outside right (Which may have occurred later, or didn't at all due to slow towing speed).

Am I warm ??

Anyway, don't mean to continue to whoop-ass on the already deceased pony. [emoji16]

I think what he is saying is the boat did a 180 and the tube did go to the outside. As it continued around it crossed paths with his boat.

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[BoatCop]

Since using the horn was brought up, there are required sound signals for nearly any vessel movement, when in sight of another vessel. On inland waters, the signal indicates "I intend to do (such and such)". In international waters, they indicate "I AM doing (such and such)" -see below

1 short blast (1 second) - I intend to pass you on my port side (I alter course to starboard (right)
2 short blasts - I intend to pass you on my starboard side (I alter course to port (left)

The above also applies when coming head to head with another vessel. In most situations you should alter course to starboard when head on with another vessel. If they are doing the same, you will pass safely, port side to port side.

When giving any of the above sound signals toward another vessel, they should answer with the same signal, to acknowledge they understand. If they answer with 5 short blasts (danger signal), you should take all way off (throttle back to neutral, or steerage speed), evaluate the danger / confict and proceed when safe, and all parties agree on proper passage.

Other sound signals you should be aware of:

1 prolonged blast (4-6 seconds) - I am leaving a dock, pier or landing
3 short blasts - I am operating in reverse
1 prolonged blast followed by 3 short blasts - I am leaving a dock in reverse

There are other signals, such as operating in fog, anchored in fog:

A power-driven vessel making way shall sound one prolonged blast every two minutes

A power-driven vessel underway but stopped shall sound two prolonged blasts every two minutes.

One prolonged blast, followed immediately by two short blasts, means that the vessel is restricted in some way and has ultimate right of way. Those would be deep draft ships in narrow channels, sailing vessels under sail alone, not under command (broke down/drifting), working (dredge, cable layer, etc)

At anchor in fog - rapid ringing of the bell for 5 seconds, once every minute

95% of recreational boaters on fresh water have no idea what the signals mean, much less when to use them. I'd say 50% of recreational boaters on salt water know, but 99.9% of commercial vessels on salt water will be using them.

Those of us on the River/Lakes, it's kinda nice to know these. (In the channel, pay attention to what the Dream Catcher and other commercial boats do).

For any of you that operate on the ocean, or anywhere near commercial boats, it is IMPERATIVE that you know, understand, and use these signals.


EDIT: In most cases, commercial vessels, large yachts, etc. will have radio communication with other nearby vessels. They will be discussing what they are doing, so you might not hear sound signals between them. They'll be saying things like - "In bound tug approaching marker 6A, I'll pass you on one whistle" (port to port)

 

[Taboma]

I think what he is saying is the boat did a 180 and the tube did go to the outside. As it continued around it crossed paths with his boat.

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That would make sense and I'm all in favor of making sense On the other hand, if a boat has enough time to make a 180, outta be time to slow down --- OH well, main thing is, boat overtaking would have been found at fault regardless and I'm just glad nothing but feelings got hurt.

 

[MoreyMcC]

From what you’re describing that’s a hell of a turn lol


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I think what he is saying is the boat did a 180 and the tube did go to the outside. As it continued around it crossed paths with his boat.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

yes the tube went to the outside and as it spun around the tube just missed my starboard side.

 

[mash on it]

Since using the horn was brought up, there are required sound signals for nearly any vessel movement, when in sight of another vessel. On inland waters, the signal indicates "I intend to do (such and such)". In international waters, they indicate "I AM doing (such and such)" -see below

1 short blast (1 second) - I intend to pass you on my port side (I alter course to starboard (right)
2 short blasts - I intend to pass you on my starboard side (I alter course to port (left)

The above also applies when coming head to head with another vessel. In most situations you should alter course to starboard when head on with another vessel. If they are doing the same, you will pass safely, port side to port side.

When giving any of the above sound signals toward another vessel, they should answer with the same signal, to acknowledge they understand. If they answer with 5 short blasts (danger signal), you should take all way off (throttle back to neutral, or steerage speed), evaluate the danger / confict and proceed when safe, and all parties agree on proper passage.

Other sound signals you should be aware of:

1 prolonged blast (4-6 seconds) - I am leaving a dock, pier or landing
3 short blasts - I am operating in reverse
1 prolonged blast followed by 3 short blasts - I am leaving a dock in reverse

There are other signals, such as operating in fog, anchored in fog:

A power-driven vessel making way shall sound one prolonged blast every two minutes

A power-driven vessel underway but stopped shall sound two prolonged blasts every two minutes.

One prolonged blast, followed immediately by two short blasts, means that the vessel is restricted in some way and has ultimate right of way. Those would be deep draft ships in narrow channels, sailing vessels under sail alone, not under command (broke down/drifting), working (dredge, cable layer, etc)

At anchor in fog - rapid ringing of the bell for 5 seconds, once every minute

95% of recreational boaters on fresh water have no idea what the signals mean, much less when to use them. I'd say 50% of recreational boaters on salt water know, but 99.9% of commercial vessels on salt water will be using them.

Those of us on the River/Lakes, it's kinda nice to know these. (In the channel, pay attention to what the Dream Catcher and other commercial boats do).

For any of you that operate on the ocean, or anywhere near commercial boats, it is IMPERATIVE that you know, understand, and use these signals.


EDIT: In most cases, commercial vessels, large yachts, etc. will have radio communication with other nearby vessels. They will be discussing what they are doing, so you might not hear sound signals between them. They'll be saying things like - "In bound tug approaching marker 6A, I'll pass you on one whistle" (port to port)

@BoatCop

Excellent information, Alan.

While patrolling the Parker Strip, how often did you (or your crew) use horn blasts in traffic?
Daily?
Weekly?
Once in a while?

I haven't heard horns for navigation on the Colorado by any patrol boat. Bullhead PD and Nevada Fish and Game are the most common where I boat.
(Colorado river below Davis Dam)

Dan'l

 

[BoatCop]

@BoatCop

Excellent information, Alan.

While patrolling the Parker Strip, how often did you (or your crew) use horn blasts in traffic?
Daily?
Weekly?
Once in a while?

I haven't heard horns for navigation on the Colorado by any patrol boat. Bullhead PD and Nevada Fish and Game are the most common where I boat.
(Colorado river below Davis Dam)

Dan'l

Only the danger signal to get people's attention. I came to the Sheriff's Office from the Coast Guard where, among other things, I was a boat coxswain, and U/W Deck Officer on a couple Coast Guard Cutters on the Delaware River and out of San Diego. So I was used to sounding the required signals, and did when I first started out here. After a couple of weeks of people looking at me, wondering WTF I was doing, or just waving, I gave it up. Al I was doing was making noise. Kinda like talking to a teenager. Totally one sided conversation.

 

[SBMech]

nope, I am 100% accurate!
go read what Boatcop posted.

I stand corrected, but man...pretty shallow water there if they were that close.


@BoatCop just so it's clear, at anytime the vessel being overtaken has the right of way to change direction without notification? Including a complete u-turn?

At what point do you switch from stand on to give way? Is there an actual distance or is it immediate after being overtaken?

 

[DrunkenSailor]

This was the one good thing about the california money grab... I mean boater safety course. I know what all the buoys mean. What the horn signals mean and right of way. Boat US has a cool little simulator that will put you in different situations and is a neat way to kill some time and learn.

Boating Simulator and Games

Play the BoatUS Foundation Boat Simulator to practice and hone your piloting skills! Also, try our browser games, where you can practice safe navigation and docking.

www.boatus.org