Who Was The Inmate: Security And Home Integration?

[monkeyswrench]

No, I'm not in the market...I have dogs, a fence and live in a little, nondescript home Curious as to the programming and hardware involved, like is it a purchased program used and you enable the functions and inputs as needed, or is it hardcore "binary coding" type? Do you have what my IT brother would call "wire monkeys" do the runs/terminations, and then have the "tech" guy set up the functionalities? It's one of those contracting professions that I honestly didn't know existed, but is really pretty interesting. I have a couple sons in high school that may be looking towards different avenues in life, so I'm trying to learn what things are out there that may not have been options or may not have even existed when I was a youngster.

 

[wallnutz]

No, I'm not in the market...I have dogs, a fence and live in a little, nondescript home Curious as to the programming and hardware involved, like is it a purchased program used and you enable the functions and inputs as needed, or is it hardcore "binary coding" type? Do you have what my IT brother would call "wire monkeys" do the runs/terminations, and then have the "tech" guy set up the functionalities? It's one of those contracting professions that I honestly didn't know existed, but is really pretty interesting. I have a couple sons in high school that may be looking towards different avenues in life, so I'm trying to learn what things are out there that may not have been options or may not have even existed when I was a youngster.

Paradise I believe.

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

Some people might also call them "narrow backs" I think its just a journeyman level electrician or it may be a communication lineman that does this kind of work. Sorry if anyone is offended those are the 2 trades i think that may pull and terminate wire.

Fiber optic cable splicing might be something to look into. For the utilities its big business.

You know what im rooting for, if you ask me but heights and high voltage arent for everyone.

 

[Taboma]

As an electrical contractor C10 license, we spend over 15 years installing Building Automation Controls in Institutional, Commercial and Industrial applications.
These systems had a primary purpose for HVAC and Central Plant mechanical control and monitoring.
In addition, these systems could also be integrated into Fire Alarm, Access Control, security etc. On some projects we installed all the systems, on others, the Fire Alarm and Security were installed by a C7 contractor and we married the two for monitoring purposes.

The C-10 allowed us to perform the work required to integrate the low-voltage aspect with the much higher facility system voltages to affect both the control and monitoring of these critical systems. Similar systems often included control of monitoring of Co-Generation facilities.
Other industrial type systems were used for manufacturing and process controls.
The environment of these types of controls, usually dictates this work is best performed by a C-10 Electrical Contractor.

My son is now a C10 Electrical Contractor, he's the family Tech-type now. His business model is primarily very high end residential, where he's installing complete home automation integrated systems. He's using all CA Licensed Journeymen and apprentices.

In many applications, like Fire and Security, it only requires a C7 license, due to the much lower voltages and general nature of the install.

In our case, with the exception of the DOD Approved Security System we both sold and installed in "Secure" facilities, the vast majority of our work was the installation of the hardware and associated cabling, then rudimentary hardware and sensor testing to assure the system was ready to be programmed and initialized.
The Software programming and start-up were performed by Technicians who usually work for a company like Siemens, or Johnson Controls as two examples.

In general there's two disciplines involved in these systems. The hardware, mechanical, installation --- Physical vs. The Software, programming, more technical Cerebral aspect.
Back when we were doing this, there was more money in the physical installation, and that's the discipline I preferred and enjoyed performing.
My grandson would immediately choose the software, techy side.
My son enjoys and is really good with both.

Depends if your son enjoys picking up tools or a laptop. Since I've been retired for over 10 years now, I realize the industry has probably changed a lot, so perhaps the programmers and Techs are making more money. Just not sure how saturated that discipline is in today's work climate.

 

[Xtrmwakeboarder]

@paradise

 

[monkeyswrench]

@Taboma , back in the late 90's one of my friends did something like that...I think he worked for TRL or something like that? I know he did things that integrated the HVAC with the fire alarms and supperssion. From little tidbits I learned from him, it helped me understand multi-zone units. Seemingly irrelevant from a roofers view, until you have to track water intrusion through a vent on the first floor

I didn't know there were different licensing requirements due to voltage. Makes sense, the guy primarily installing Malibu lights probably isn't the same guy running high tension cables. As for sons' desires and aspects of the trade, one is much more technical oriented, but decent with tools. The other has no fear, and, unfortunately, I can see him following in my footsteps.

 

[Riverbound]

my house is all down with a Samsung smart things hub and zwave devices. The security and camera system is handled through Resideo ((Honeywell). Only thing when doing it this way is to crest a deprecate Wi-Fi network dedicated to the security/automation.

 

[monkeyswrench]

my house is all down with a Samsung smart things hub and zwave devices. The security and camera system is handled through Resideo ((Honeywell). Only thing when doing it this way is to crest a deprecate Wi-Fi network dedicated to the security/automation.

So your home itself runs an independent network apart from you "normal" stuff (tablets, computers, TV etc)? Makes sense, it would probably more secure, and I think that the bandwidth may be an issue...but those are things above my pay grade

 

[paradise]

@monkeyswrench
We do a lot of this type of work. it is a really cool crossover between trade style cabling and terminations and more technical programming. For my business, we have a dedicated Business IT Support side and a separate AV side, but I get to play in both (which is good because I get bored really easy). They are similar enough that the skills transfer from one to the other. I started a thread outlining some of the things we are doing on a big project we are working on (and need to update it) but it might be something for him to take a look at. https://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/threads/cool-av-automation-project.260180/

There is a pretty interesting and big divide in the Automation world today. There are a ton of the consumer style systems (Apple, Samsung, Google, IFTTT) that do some really cool things, but are not as flexible as a truly integrated system. Then there is our side of the coin where we start with basically a blank slate (or completely blank in the case of something like Crestron) and build out the configuration, User Interfaces, network etc. It's really hard to be in both of those spaces at once so you kind of have to pick a direction and stick with it. If he is technical, good with his hands and a quick learner he'd do great in one of these companies. From my perspective, Business IT is a constant learning game, no two days are the same and you have to thrive in that constantly changing environment and have a knack for it. In AV, once you understand how everything works you can much more quickly become an expert with just training and a little time. My lead programmer started with me ~4 years ago...

There are some small mom and pop shops as well as HUGE home automation companies in the south that do an obscene quantity of work LOL. We're just handful of guys but we try to do "Oh wow" projects

 

[monkeyswrench]

@paradise , you were the inmate and that was the thread! Thank you! I have two boys, 14 and 16. The older one is very good with the software side of things. He's been doing stuff, like coding and such, but has figured that 8-10 hours a day in front of a computer screen may not be the life he wants. The younger one has no real interest in what makes stuff work, but likes AV and more the nuts and bolts. This gives me an insight as to where to start looking for things to show them. Home integration is really high tech to me. I was a kid in the 90's that was impressed with remote starters on cars, and setting up the relays to roll up your windows when you set the alarm

 

[paradise]

@paradise , you were the inmate and that was the thread! Thank you! I have two boys, 14 and 16. The older one is very good with the software side of things. He's been doing stuff, like coding and such, but has figured that 8-10 hours a day in front of a computer screen may not be the life he wants. The younger one has no real interest in what makes stuff work, but likes AV and more the nuts and bolts. This gives me an insight as to where to start looking for things to show them. Home integration is really high tech to me. I was a kid in the 90's that was impressed with remote starters on cars, and setting up the relays to roll up your windows when you set the alarm

Heck yeah, there’s lots of cool niches in the market for all types of interests. There are guys that do nothing but really high end 2 channel audio setups, others that do nothing but theaters, etc.

Theaters are some of my favorite things. We just had a client that was sure they didn’t want a ‘high performance’ theater but trusted us enough to let us do it right. They just watched their first movie in there and couldn’t stop telling us how much they enjoyed the audio and video quality. A good theater will make people want to spend time watching movies as it’s not fatiguing at all and so immersive.

 

[Taboma]

Heck yeah, there’s lots of cool niches in the market for all types of interests. There are guys that do nothing but really high end 2 channel audio setups, others that do nothing but theaters, etc.

Theaters are some of my favorite things. We just had a client that was sure they didn’t want a ‘high performance’ theater but trusted us enough to let us do it right. They just watched their first movie in there and couldn’t stop telling us how much they enjoyed the audio and video quality. A good theater will make people want to spend time watching movies as it’s not fatiguing at all and so immersive.

Before I retired, several large churches we did seem to have huge budgets set aside for their presentations.
As the design and build onsite EC we essentially did everything but but mounting their equipment into the racks, the final terminations, programming and system start up and testing on the controller side. Three Jumbo Screens, and an audio system I'd never imagined could be so good. I was stunned this was all going into a church, it's as if their Sunday sermons were Broadway Shows.
During the audio testing program I'd stay late following jobsite meetings and sit in the middle of the auditorium, they were making all the final system adjustments and shaking the building foundation playing various more instrumental biased rocks songs, amazing.
I really enjoyed that thread you'd started for that large project.

 

[paradise]

Before I retired, several large churches we did seem to have huge budgets set aside for their presentations.
As the design and build onsite EC we essentially did everything but but mounting their equipment into the racks, the final terminations, programming and system start up and testing on the controller side. Three Jumbo Screens, and an audio system I'd never imagined could be so good. I was stunned this was all going into a church, it's as if their Sunday sermons were Broadway Shows.
During the audio testing program I'd stay late following jobsite meetings and sit in the middle of the auditorium, they were making all the final system adjustments and shaking the building foundation playing various more instrumental biased rocks songs, amazing.
I really enjoyed that thread you'd started for that large project.

You're 100% correct. Some of the church systems out there are incredible and it seems to have become more of the rule than the exception

I'll get some more updates up on that other thread soon.

 

[Riverbound]

So your home itself runs an independent network apart from you "normal" stuff (tablets, computers, TV etc)? Makes sense, it would probably more secure, and I think that the bandwidth may be an issue...but those are things above my pay grade

Correct. I have two separate routers one for smart home one for devices.