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Why All Deaths are labeled Covid

WhatExit?

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I got no dog in this hunt but there is a skunk here cuz this shit (thread) stinks...


An analysis by the Kaiser Family Foundation looked at average Medicare payments for hospital admissions for the existing diagnosis-related groups and noted that the “average Medicare payment for respiratory infections and inflammations with major comorbidities or complications in 2017 … was $13,297. For more severe hospitalizations, we use the average Medicare payment for a respiratory system diagnosis with ventilator support for greater than 96 hours, which was $40,218.”

It is true, however, that the government will pay more to hospitals for COVID-19 cases in two senses: By paying an additional 20% on top of traditional Medicare rates for COVID-19 patients during the public health emergency, and by reimbursing hospitals for treating the uninsured patients with the disease (at that enhanced Medicare rate).

Both of those provisions stem from the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act, or CARES Act.

The CARES Act created the 20% add-on to be paid for Medicare patients with COVID-19. The act further created a $100 billion fund that is being used to financially assist hospitals — a “portion” of which will be “used to reimburse healthcare providers, at Medicare rates, for COVID-related treatment of the uninsured,” according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

As the Kaiser analysis noted, though, “it is unclear whether the new fund will be able to cover the costs of the uninsured in addition to other needs, such as the purchase of medical supplies and the construction of temporary facilities.”

Above from: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

PS: I support LEOs but don't appreciate when they or anyone can't discuss issues and provide facts
 

LowRiver2

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Cute article
No one has been paid
Carry on, facts were provided , it’s cool to kick a can with falsehoods.
Makes some feel better
So be it
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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Whatever fits the conspiracy theory
You do you
WOW.. so now my info is a conspiracy theory? Even though it comes directly from someone that has been dealing with this from day 1? Why? Because it didnt come from you?

You need to climb back on your rocker because obviously you fell off!
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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Cute article
No one has been paid
Carry on, facts were provided , it’s cool to kick a can with falsehoods.
Makes some feel better
So be it

THEN POST SOME PERTINENT INFO TO PROVE YOUR CASE!

If not your info is no different than anyone else's on here "Orical II"
 

LowRiver2

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THEN POST SOME PERTINENT INFO TO PROVE YOUR CASE!

If not your info is no different than anyone else's on here "Orical II"
Kaiser daily spread sheet?
Sorry can’t post it
But if you want to believe I’m a liar go for it.
KP has never been paid
Show the article they have
I already asked , no one posted it up
Game over
Oracle , actually
And no, first hand with my “oracle” 🤣
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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Kaiser daily spread sheet?
Sorry can’t post it
But if you want to believe I’m a liar go for it.
KP has never been paid
Show the article they have
I already asked , no one posted it up
Game over
Oracle , actually
And no, first hand with my “oracle” 🤣

So I am just supposed to take "your word" for it while you call mine "conspiracy theory".. noted!

You are the one that made this thread in to something about KP. Last I knew there was ALOT more to the USA than SoCal🤷🏻‍♂️ just sayin?
 

Racey

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This entire thing has been exploited in dozens of ways, by countless interests, ranging from good to scammy, to down right malevolent.

It should be perfectly obvious to anyone paying attention at this point. Covid doesn't scare me, what the government and system are using it to exploit does.
 

Waffles

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Cute article
No one has been paid
Carry on, facts were provided , it’s cool to kick a can with falsehoods.
Makes some feel better
So be it
No facts have been provided by either side. Your falsehoods carry the same weight as everyone else’s tbh......come correct with receipts
 

LowRiver2

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THEN POST SOME PERTINENT INFO TO PROVE YOUR CASE!

If not your info is no different than anyone else's on here "Orical II"
So I am just supposed to take "your word" for it while you call mine "conspiracy theory".. noted!

You are the one that made this thread in to something about KP. Last I knew there was ALOT more to the USA than SoCal🤷🏻‍♂️ just sayin?
40k patients , over 8k Covid patients
0 reimbursement, and that’s with several thousand extra Medicare patients thrown in that were supposed to be compensated
Never.happened
It’s a fact and gets silly reading hearsay posts from inmates about hospitals making tons of money vs having spouses at reigns that see what’s actually happening money wise

again
The easy road is to kick the can
 

LowRiver2

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No facts have been provided by either side. Your falsehoods carry the same weight as everyone else’s tbh......come correct with receipts
Can’t due to company policy
But Fuck it, no need for me to talk about IED’s and LAPD shootings unless I post pics of the dead suspects and bomb debris on active cases right ?

Same applies here Einstein

And riddle me this:

Been here since 08’
Show me (anyone) a thread I talked about where I didn’t have facts /experience about what I was talking about:

Go ahead and post up

Now, when I don’t, (gopher killing,sxs fuck ups), I’ll ask a question or say what my personal experience (limited on the subjects in parentheses), and will listen ,
Ask questions

I post hard line on facts I know, not from reading (outside P&G), we all read there

Send it
 
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Bear Down

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Always been an LR2 Fan...

But as Joe Public, no one does anything for free.. KP or any hospital. No profitable elective surgeries allowed? They need to make $ somehow and doing Covid type of services and all the OT employees are doing and getting paid for (I think you mentioned in a thread $38k in taxes due to OT) due to covid related treatment, is coming from somewhere. What benefit would hospitals have in declaring a death Covid when they dont get extra $? Public record shows KP took a big hit in Q1 in 2020... kinda jives with what LR2 says... but let's see what the $s #s are after everything is cleared up.. no facts to back up my thoughts, just an opinion of what I see and hear. Carry on..

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LowRiver2

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Always been an LR2 Fan...

But as Joe Public, no one does anything for free.. KP or any hospital. No profitable elective surgeries allowed? They need to make $ somehow and doing Covid type of services and all the OT employees are doing and getting paid for (I think you mentioned in a thread $38k in taxes due to OT) due to covid related treatment, is coming from somewhere. What benefit would hospitals have in declaring a death Covid when they dont get extra $? Public record shows KP took a big hit in Q1 in 2020... kinda jives with what LR2 says... but let's see what the $s #s are after everything is cleared up.. no facts to back up my thoughts, just an opinion of what I see and hear. Carry on..

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Facts

It’s either going to be in higher co pays , some type of subsidy (0 now), or KP has to realign and shrink

Pretty much the three paths to go, or a combination of...
 

Racey

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And yes hospitals ARE getting paid for covid treatment whether it ends in a death or not, it's substantial and one of the only ways they weathered being closed for all elective treatments for the 2-3 months last year, and then the following months of reduced treatments while they sorted out Wu-flu policies and people postponed treatments during this limbo.


It was discussed ad-nauseum in the d&g forum going all the way back to spring last year
 

Waffles

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Can’t due to company policy
But Fuck it, no need for me to talk about IED’s and LAPD shootings unless I post pics of the dead suspects and bomb debris on active cases right ?

Same applies here Einstein
You’re on one 😂.
How does the same apply here? No one questions your POV when it comes to ieds and Lapd shootings because everyone KNOWS you’re in that line of work. *color me shocked*

You pulling the ol “Source: dude trust me” just cause your LEO is laughable
 

LowRiver2

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You’re on one 😂.
How does the same apply here? No one questions your POV when it comes to ieds and Lapd shootings because everyone KNOWS you’re in that line of work. *color me shocked*

You pulling the ol “Source: dude trust me” just cause your LEO is laughable
Family is KP
You can PM for further
So you are saying I’m laughable as a Cop:
Noted
 
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SBMech

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I know nothing about KP. I do know that my own mother was claimed to be a CV19 death last year, even after her testing negative. I do know that my local hospital gets paid for CV19 patients (the head admin is a client).
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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Family is KP
You can PM for further
KP is mainly California so what about the rest of the hospitals in the USA?

And hell maybe Gavin kept the money that was supposed to go to the hospitals to keep plubjack open and buy some new properties 🤷🏻‍♂️ hows that for conspiracy theory?
 

Bear Down

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Facts

It’s either going to be in higher co pays , some type of subsidy (0 now), or KP has to realign and shrink

Pretty much the three paths to go, or a combination of...
So safe to say... KP hasn't received 1 cent due to Covid... but doesn't mean they won't get $? Also, the possibility of some thought, condition or path to possible subsidies correct? If no subsidies, as noted higher premiums... sort of like taking on uninsured emergency cases.. eat it and pass it on...

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JUSTWANNARACE

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I know nothing about KP. I do know that my own mother was claimed to be a CV19 death last year, even after her testing negative. I do know that my local hospital gets paid for CV19 patients (the head admin is a client).
Nope, you're wrong! Just ask LR2.


I actually like the guy and his contributions to this site, look forward what he posts.. but this "holier than thou" shit is over the top in this one SMH
 

LowRiver2

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KP is mainly California so what about the rest of the hospitals in the USA?

And hell maybe Gavin kept the money that was supposed to go to the hospitals to keep plubjack open and buy some new properties 🤷🏻‍♂️ hows that for conspiracy theory?
Facts to get you in perspective about KP:

1. Kaiser Permanente operates in eight states (Hawaii, Washington, Oregon, California, Colorado, Maryland, Virginia, Georgia) and the District of Columbia, and is the largest managed care organization in the United States.

2. Ca. And all other states have 0 to do with reimbursement of KP hospitals

3. No Fed $ has reimbursed KP
 

LowRiver2

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So safe to say... KP hasn't received 1 cent due to Covid... but doesn't mean they won't get $? Also, the possibility of some thought, condition or path to possible subsidies correct? If no subsidies, as noted higher premiums... sort of like taking on uninsured emergency cases.. eat it and pass it on...

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No plans to “eat and pass on”, or get subsidies as
of today
 

Havasu blue label

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Shit I work for a top director for Kaiser that was a guestion I ask him last Saturday his answer was we foot the bill for all patients and drive up show us a death certificate From Kaiser
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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Facts to get you in perspective about KP:

1. Kaiser Permanente operates in eight states (Hawaii, Washington, Oregon, California, Colorado, Maryland, Virginia, Georgia) and the District of Columbia, and is the largest managed care organization in the United States.

2. Ca. And all other states have 0 to do with reimbursement of KP hospitals

3. No Fed $ has reimbursed KP

Yep I get that but all KP is not the same. A retired Socal leo retired and moved to oregon and the KP here wont see him he has to got back to Socal for his treatments🤷🏻‍♂️

And yes we have one in Portland but is no where near the biggest provider around here! And apparently if leo is mainly provided through KP in California but can not be used in oregon?
 

sirbob

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Lots of talk about facts - I’ll share a few. Having worked in hospitals my whole professional life and dealing with reimbursement for most of that time.

Hospitals get paid more if a patient has “co morbidities” that go along with something being treated.

ie - a female patient getting spine surgery that has osteoporosis will generate a higher reimbursement fee that one with out osteoporosis for the same procedure. They add reimbursement to cover the expected additional issues that come up.

High blood pressure - more money

Diabetes- more money

Etc.

They do the same with Covid - you may get pneumonia and need to be on a ventilator- because of the additional expected recovery time etc.

The reason that the 20% was added is because it usually takes a couple years (minimum) to review treatment options and poll hospitals and physicians to figure how much time / effort / cost go into treating a patient when something new comes along (new tech or new treatment option) then coming up with a fair reimbursement in light of the expected treatment. From there they create a new DRG and assign an amount of reimbursement to it.

Covid came on too fast to allow the normal process to be completed and they needed to fairly allow hospitals to be reimbursed for their treatments provided.

While I can’t say I’ve seen a lot of death certs since this started - I have personally seen a few. None of them listed covid as the cause. It may or can be listed as a contributor or co mobility but not the reason - it usually calls out the actual reason for the death... ie pneumonia, cardiac arrest etc and mentions they had covid.

The fact is people with covid that are hospitalized are harder to treat and
take more time. Hence a higher reimbursement.

Lastly my opinion based on having worked with hospital CEOs and CFOs for 30 years is they aren’t going to fake or lie about a co morbidity if it wasn’t present or they couldn’t prove / document it in the patient chart. But they will definitely maximize the reimbursement they are entitled too if the patient can be documented to have had (any co morbidity) covid.
 
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Instigator

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Nice pot shot, but thanks for playing
Got any actual facts to discuss ?
Funny, when I get to the point you get offended ?
Hey man, I never got offended or posted anything related to any fact other than than it appears that you have a very short fuse about this subject for some reason and some of your replies appear dismissive and condescending.
Nothing more and Nothing less.
 

HavaToon

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I wasn’t going to bring my dog into this fight, but what the hell.

My credentials if anyone gives a shit...I manage Kaiser and 4 other of the largest health systems in the US for one of the largest healthcare companies in the world.

Some facts-

- Hospitals are getting paid money for COVID period. The CARES act outlines it plain as day. However not all hospitals are taking the money, while some are flat out exploiting it. I know first hand some that are, including big IDN’s and small rural hospitals profiting. I will never share my actual sources but they include C-suite members and multiple state COVID task force members.

- I don’t know LR2 at all but what he’s saying about KP is true..mostly. Kaiser did receive money from the CARES Act, but later returned more than $500 million. The one exception was the $11.8 million Kaiser received for Maui Health, which is actually a partnership with the state owned hospital system. This is all public record FYI but I also know first hand.

Oh and a fun fact-

- Kaiser is the largest hospital system in the US not in terms of hospitals but it terms of revenue and income, almost doubling the second largest system in revenue HCA which is the largest system in the US in terms of number of hospitals.

- If based on the number of hospitals only Kaiser doesn’t even crack the top 10.

- Kaiser’s massive revenue comes from their membership, self referring and paying. It’s a unique model no other system in the US offers. Because of this massive revenue they indeed weathered COVID better than any other US system.


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LowRiver2

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I wasn’t going to bring my dog into this fight, but what the hell.

My credentials if anyone gives a shit...I manage Kaiser and 4 other of the largest health systems in the US for one of the largest healthcare companies in the world.

Some facts-

- Hospitals are getting paid money for COVID period. The CARES act outlines it plain as day. However not all hospitals are taking the money, while some are flat out exploiting it. I know first hand some that are, including big IDN’s and small rural hospitals profiting. I will never share my actual sources but they include C-suite members and multiple state COVID task force members.

- I don’t know LR2 at all but what he’s saying about KP is true..mostly. Kaiser did receive money from the CARES Act, but later returned more than $500 million. The one exception was the $11.8 million Kaiser received for Maui Health, which is actually a partnership with the state owned hospital system. This is all public record FYI but I also know first hand.

Oh and a fun fact-

- Kaiser is the largest hospital system in the US not in terms of hospitals but it terms of revenue and income, almost doubling the second largest system in revenue HCA which is the largest system in the US in terms of number of hospitals.

- If based on the number of hospitals only Kaiser doesn’t even crack the top 10.

- Kaiser’s massive revenue comes from their membership, self referring and paying. It’s a unique model no other system in the US offers. Because of this massive revenue they indeed weathered COVID better than any other US system.


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I already posted I’m speaking for so cal KP
 

HavaToon

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Lots of talk about facts - I’ll share a few. Having worked in hospitals my whole professional life and dealing with reimbursement for most of that time.

Hospitals get paid more if a patient has “co morbidities” that go along with something being treated.

ie - a female patient getting spine surgery that has osteoporosis will generate a higher reimbursement fee that one with out osteoporosis for the same procedure. They add reimbursement to cover the expected additional issues that come up.

High blood pressure - more money

Diabetes- more money

Etc.

They do the same with Covid - you may get pneumonia and need to be on a ventilator- because of the additional expected recovery time etc.

The reason that the 20% was added is because it usually takes a couple years (minimum) to review treatment options and poll hospitals and physicians to figure how much time / effort / cost go into treating a patient when something new comes along (new tech or new treatment option) then coming up with a fair reimbursement in light of the expected treatment. From there they create a new DRG and assign an amount of reimbursement to it.

Covid came on too fast to allow the normal process to be completed and they needed to fairly allow hospitals to be reimbursed for their treatments provided.

While I can’t say I’ve seen a lot of death certs since this started - I have personally seen a few. None of them listed covid as the cause. It may or can be listed as a contributor or co mobility but not the reason - it usually calls out the actual reason for the death... ie pneumonia, cardiac arrest etc and mentions they had covid.

The fact is people with covid that are hospitalized are harder to treat and
take more time. Hence a higher reimbursement.

Lastly my opinion based on having worked with hospital CEOs and CFOs for 30 years is they aren’t going to fake or lie about a co morbidity if it wasn’t present or they couldn’t prove / document it in the patient chart. But they will definitely maximize the reimbursement they are entitled too if the patient can be documented to have had (any co morbidity) covid.
Some great “facts” that are reality gathered from years of experience. Hospitals whether non-profit or for profit are a business and in it to make money.


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LowRiver2

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Hey man, I never got offended or posted anything related to any fact other than than it appears that you have a very short fuse about this subject for some reason and some of your replies appear dismissive and condescending.
Nothing more and Nothing less.
So a pot shot like I posted
Noted
 

LowRiver2

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Yep I get that but all KP is not the same. A retired Socal leo retired and moved to oregon and the KP here wont see him he has to got back to Socal for his treatments🤷🏻‍♂️

And yes we have one in Portland but is no where near the biggest provider around here! And apparently if leo is mainly provided through KP in California but can not be used in oregon?
KP coverage is based on location of your employer
Same goes for any profession with a KP plan.
The region your employer paid into it is where they treat you, even in retirement .
Some exigent circumstances are exceptions to that .
Need to post more about why he can’t have normal check ups in OR. He should be able to have routine things done in OR.
 
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Mr. C

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So a pot shot like I posted
Noted
Geeze. Sensitive much. Bomb tech. Short fuse comment. Most got the sarcasm. Get over it.


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LowRiver2

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No.. you made/turned this thread into KP! KP doesnt treat everyone!! 🤣

But whatever
It treats a shit ton of so cal peeps
Majority of inmates are from where ?
Relevant ?
Yes
Have others posted here KP hasn’t received a dime?
Yes
Point proven
I don’t post BS, I post what is first hand to m
Over

Now, not sure what your profession is but pretty sure I won’t post something about it since I don’t do it or have a direct family member involved in said profession
 
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Mr. C

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It treats a shit ton of so cal peeps
Majority of inmates are from where ?
Relevant ?
Yes
Have others posted here KP hasn’t received a dime?
Yes
Point proven
I don’t post BS
Over
Majority. How would you know. Keep pumping your chest. Cupcake.


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Waffles

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I’d actually like to see the numbers of those that use KP. None of my family members use KP.....especially after they misdiagnosed my dad which ultimately lead to his death. Non of my Pinoy friends use KP......they might work for them but even they refuse to be cared for by KP DRs......my cousin is a crna at loma linda and even he calls KP the McDonald’s of HC.....whatever the fuck that means 😂
 

PRORACER7474

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I will not get into the who get paid what deal, but if you research Covid-19 you will find that it causes Viral Pneumonia, the pneumonia part of it is what is causing the deaths. How do I know because I got Covid-19 and 6 days later I was in the hospital with Bilateral Viral Pneumonia. I was told by a few Doctors that the pneumonia is what is causing the deaths the exact words doctor looking at e-rays "this is not good you have bilateral viral pneumonia". My understanding again from the doctors was you can treat Bacteria pneumonia with antibiotics but with viral your body has to just fight it by yourself and as long as you still have Covid it is unable to. Lucky for me I was 7 days into and with the help of a experimental drug cocktail I tested neg 3 days later and with breathing excersice and massive doses of vitamins I started getting better at around 10 days
 

EmpirE231

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Whether KP got reimbursed or not... the fact is they officially suck dick! Being someone who has had some “non COVID” health issues the last year or so, they have been a huge joke in terms of medical care.

that’s great and all that they’re not being reimbursed by Medicare and doing it all out of the kindness of my pocket.... because our premiums have been sky rocketing for years now.

and due to them accepting Medicare patients, it now takes 3-4 months to get an appointment. They had damn near the entire hospital closed for the last 3 months due to “COVID surge” what a joke.
 

LowRiver2

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I’d actually like to see the numbers of those that use KP. None of my family members use KP.....especially after they misdiagnosed my dad which ultimately lead to his death. Non of my Pinoy friends use KP......they might work for them but even they refuse to be cared for by KP DRs......my cousin is a crna at loma linda and even he calls KP the McDonald’s of HC.....whatever the fuck that means 😂
Choose whatever you want
Point is they are huge in so cal, treated thousands of Covid patients , no money paid to them
About 5k LAPD on Kaiser , probably around 13k+ LA City workers
Easily same numbers for LASD/ LA County

Ford / Chevy , choose what you want

KP is a hell of a lot cheaper when you get old and more advanced care coverage than Blue, but totally different topic
Way more seniors paying way more $ out of pocket for normal prescriptions on all other plans outside KP
Again
To each their own

And KP sucks so bad, they opened their own medical school :
🤣

F5EBA26B-34FB-4763-B595-83E6DFADEC1D.jpeg
 
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LowRiver2

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Whether KP got reimbursed or not... the fact is they officially suck dick! Being someone who has had some “non COVID” health issues the last year or so, they have been a huge joke in terms of medical care.

that’s great and all that they’re not being reimbursed by Medicare and doing it all out of the kindness of my pocket.... because our premiums have been sky rocketing for years now.

and due to them accepting Medicare patients, it now takes 3-4 months to get an appointment. They had damn near the entire hospital closed for the last 3 months due to “COVID surge” what a joke.
Was my point here they didn’t get paid when others said all hospitals are making money off Covid ?
Yep
Remember the OP’s point
Higher Premiums?
That’s partly due to your plan/employer

Mine have not gone up in six years
Again , off topic
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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It treats a shit ton of so cal peeps
Majority of inmates are from where ?
Relevant ?
Yes
Have others posted here KP hasn’t received a dime?
Yes
Point proven
I don’t post BS, I post what is first hand to m
Over

Now, not sure what your profession is but pretty sure I won’t post something about it since I don’t do it or have a direct family member involved in said profession

So now my and others info about hospitals receiving $ for COVID-19 is BS because KP in socal didnt receive any?

Step out of your bubble FFS!

Can you show me where KP was brought up in the OP's post? Nope, no you cant... sooo...

And like I said my info comes from the head of a local hospital that I do work for sooo..🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️..


And ffs we know your wife works for kaiser so I get you are defending it.. but hell man step out of socal for a minute and look at the big picture..
 

LowRiver2

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So now my and others info about hospitals receiving $ for COVID-19 is BS because KP in socal didnt receive any?

Step out of your bubble FFS!

Can you show me where KP was brought up in the OP's post? Nope, no you cant... sooo...

And like I said my info comes from the head of a local hospital that I do work for sooo..🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️..
The OP said everything Covid is a cash cow, then the band wagon comments about all hospitals make money off Covid
I’ve proven they have not
Game over
If you post up generalities here, get ready for specifics.
 

JUSTWANNARACE

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@LowRiver2

Your first post could have easily said "I'm glad my family works for Kaiser because thay are not taking the covid $" instead of insinuating and basically calling everyone else that has posted a "lier"!!

Get my point?
 

Waffles

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Choose whatever you want
Point is they are huge in so cal, treated thousands of Covid patients , no money paid to them
About 5k LAPD on Kaiser , probably around 13k+ LA City workers
Easily same numbers for LASD/ LA County

Ford / Chevy , choose what you want

KP is a hell of a lot cheaper when you get old and more advanced care coverage than Blue, but totally different topic
Way more seniors paying way more $ out of pocket for normal prescriptions on all other plans outside KP
Again
To each their own

And KP sucks so bad, they opened their own medical school :
🤣

View attachment 976003
More advanced 😂
Kaiser caters to those that are shortsighted and too dumb to manage their own healthcare. The only idiots I know that carry Kaiser are just that, idiots that would sacrifice care over convenience because muh low deductibles no copays. You’re not the only one that works in government chief 😂

My anthem cdhp is leaps and bounds better than the shit Kaiser offers 😂
 
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