Why does it cost so much to live in CA?

[highvoltagehands]

You're missing the point. A post above mine said that $47K AGI is where the maximum 10.75% state income tax kicks in. So, yeah, someone making that paltry sum, your minimum wage joke, is being shafted for almost $5,000 by California. Yuk it up.

I make about 6X that amount and I've never paid 10.75% in California. My tax guy usually has me around 7.5% Effective Tax Rate and maybe 10% max on the worst year ever. I don't know anyone who pays full 10.75%.

 

[pronstar]

Not everyone owns a home in California, just 55.3% in 2018. Besides that, your answer doesn't account for $3,500/month rent for a 400 SF studio apartment.

Texas property taxes, which everyone in California likes to mention in these conversations, are roughly 1.8% of home value. If someone earning $47,000 lives in the $199,900 median value home in this state and receives the 20% homestead exemption, property taxes are 6.1% of his income.

It's also $2,186 less than his counterpart in California pays in income tax. Next we can discuss fuel taxes, insurance, registration fees, property taxes, and the several other methods California uses to separate the poor bastard making just $47K from his money.

When you add dual six-figure wage earners and relatively low property values to the equation, my wife and I are tens of thousands ahead with no state income tax, despite a higher property tax rate.

But it doesn’t matter because Texas is closed [emoji106]


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[RodnJen]

Not everyone owns a home in California, just 55.3% in 2018. Besides that, your answer doesn't account for $3,500/month rent for a 400 SF studio apartment.

Texas property taxes, which everyone in California likes to mention in these conversations, are roughly 1.8% of home value. If someone earning $47,000 lives in the $199,900 median value home in this state and receives the 20% homestead exemption, property taxes are 6.1% of his income.

It's also $2,186 less than his counterpart in California pays in income tax. Next we can discuss fuel taxes, insurance, registration fees, property taxes, and the several other methods California uses to separate the poor bastard making just $47K from his money.

Your examples are very grand, generalized and inaccurate.

The effective income tax rate on $47,000 is 2.8%. The average property tax rate is less than half in CA vs. Texas. Home ownership rates are dropping in TX, that is just what happens with prosperity and progress. We know all about that in CA. The example of a studio apartment is no joke, but I'm sure in actual cities in the lone star state one would pay nearly the same. There are ancillary taxes for sure, Texas will experience the same as it develops. It's not if, it's when.

 

[pronstar]

Your examples are very grand, generalized and inaccurate.

The effective income tax rate on $47,000 is 2.8%. The average property tax rate is less than half in CA vs. Texas. Home ownership rates are dropping in TX, that is just what happens with prosperity and progress. We know all about that in CA. The example of a studio apartment is no joke, but I'm sure in actual cities in the lone star state one would pay nearly the same. There are ancillary taxes for sure, Texas will experience the same as it develops. It's not if, it's when.

I’m waiting on when “we develop”.
As if we’re some third-world shithole?

As it stands we’re globally the 10th largest economy. Sure CA is like 5th, I get it.

We’re also manufacturing state - more exports than CA and NY combined.

Don’t project your problems on us.
The only way we become more “like you” is if we keep allowing the progressive agenda to infect our state.


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[Bobby V]

CEQA

14 years to permit a 340 home development in Orange County outside Yorba Linda and still in litigation.

No wonder it will cost a cool million per lot and over 2 million a house when people can finally buy.

I live in YL. Which home development is this? Stonehaven / Esperanza Hills? The fire we had about 10 years ago stopped all development and is still the biggest argument from the opposition against that development. https://www.ocregister.com/2017/05/...ect-340-homes-for-hills-north-of-yorba-linda/

 

[Bobby V]

With air quality you need a fork and knife for...

I'll take clear skies, and clearly spoken english.
....and a governor that doesn't look like used car salesman.

CA is a big state. I haven't heard of a smog alert like there used to be in the 70's 80's in years.

 

[RCDave]

Who in Kalifornia makes 47k, except those on the excessive minimum wage flipping burgers. Lol

 

[RCDave]

It's funny. All the liberals ever do is support higher taxation and regulation. What $1.08 tax for each gallon of gas is not enough tax? Among the highest income tax, sales tax, etc etc etc in the nation.

There are sound reason large corporation and wealthy are fleeing the state. It's directly attributable to socialistic leaders running this state

 

[Bobby V]

It's funny. All the liberals ever do is support higher taxation and regulation. What $1.08 tax for each gallon of gas is not enough tax? Among the highest income tax, sales tax, etc etc etc in the nation.

There are sound reason large corporation and wealthy are fleeing the state. It's directly attributable to socialistic leaders running this state

For every business that leaves. It seems a new one comes to CA or is a new start up. Being in commercial construction I haven't seen it this busy in years.

 

[precisiondetails]

Chad what’s up my man?! And yes Mother Nature is changing with climate change.

you need help Greg

 

[monkeyswrench]

I'll just agree...
California is great.
The taxes are low.
The people are wonderful.
There is no homeless problem.
There is no drug problem.
Undocumented residents are great for all aspects of business.

Pass me the Kool-aid, or the bong...

 

[Tank]

Mmmmmmm

 

[Bobby V]

I'll just agree...
California is great.
...

I agree.

 

[pronstar]

Your examples are very grand, generalized and inaccurate.

The effective income tax rate on $47,000 is 2.8%. The average property tax rate is less than half in CA vs. Texas. Home ownership rates are dropping in TX, that is just what happens with prosperity and progress. We know all about that in CA. The example of a studio apartment is no joke, but I'm sure in actual cities in the lone star state one would pay nearly the same. There are ancillary taxes for sure, Texas will experience the same as it develops. It's not if, it's when.

Why would you post statements that quite literally are false?

Rental trends:
Again false.

There are VERY nice places to rent in Dallas proper that are nowhere near LA prices.

Los Angeles:
https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ca/los-angeles/

Dallas:

https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/tx/dallas/

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[HALLETT BOY]

A while back , on KFI radio , John and Ken had Willie Brown , ex major of San Fran , ex boyfriend to Kamala Harris on their talk show . Well , he stated that for every dollar the state took in taxes / revenue, $.80 went back out for state salaries/ pensions ...do the math .

 

[DRYHEAT]

California is a great state.
The only thing wrong is the political climate in California that constantly wants to take your freedoms away as well as your money.

If you are fortunate enough to have an income that supports a nice home, toys and the ability to do whatever you want it’s a great place.

 

[dribble]

Not everyone owns a home in California, just 55.3% in 2018. Besides that, your answer doesn't account for $3,500/month rent for a 400 SF studio apartment.

Texas property taxes, which everyone in California likes to mention in these conversations, are roughly 1.8% of home value. If someone earning $47,000 lives in the $199,900 median value home in this state and receives the 20% homestead exemption, property taxes are 6.1% of his income.

It's also $2,186 less than his counterpart in California pays in income tax. Next we can discuss fuel taxes, insurance, registration fees, property taxes, and the several other methods California uses to separate the poor bastard making just $47K from his money.

Your numbers assume that someone making 47K pays the max income tax rate of 12.3 percent. Wrong. I’m retired and made about 75K last year I paid about 2 percent of that in income taxes. I also paid less in property taxes on my $450,000 house than your mythical Texan. If your income is 47K you will pay little or no state income tax. As far as insurance is concerned, the coverage on said 450K house is $350.00 a year.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I used to listen to John & Ken everyday. I wouldn't say listening to them made my decision to leave. Actually, the commute/ time lost from my life. 7-8 years ago, I still really liked Cali. Aside from the costs of business, it was great. Now, I can't stand going back. I don't know how much of it is me adapting to a slower pace, and how much of it is Cali going down the tubes. Some of each I would think, but what ratio?

It depends on what a person wants from life. Sometimes that changes. I really kind of like drinking my coffee, reading RDP and watching people drive into town on a Monday morning.
I don't miss sitting in traffic in a 1ton, AC blasting to dry the sweat and trying to get home to see my kids before bedtime.
More than fair trade, weather, for time.

 

[dribble]

Hey it’s possible one day to change the politics. It is IMPOSSIBLE to ever change Mother Nature.

Not according to Al Gore.

 

[Hypnautic]

Your numbers assume that someone making 47K pays the max income tax rate of 12.3 percent. Wrong. I’m retired and made about 75K last year I paid about 2 percent of that in income taxes. I also paid less in property taxes on my $450,000 house than your mythical Texan. If your income is 47K you will pay little or no state income tax. As far as insurance is concerned, the coverage on said 450K house is $350.00 a year.

Apple vs oranges comparison.
Sounds like part of your retirement income may be tax exempt. Your property taxes are based on assessed value set when you purchased your home. What would those property taxes be if you bought your home today for $450k. And if your paying $350 a year in insurance, I would check to make sure you are properly covered for the cost to rebuild your home. You may not be.

Our home in Ca I bought for $270k 18 years ago and paid just over 3k in tax and 800+ in insurance. Yet my parents have a home valued at over 900k and pay less than 1500 a year on tax cause they bought in ‘73 (thanks to prop 13). They would be staring at a 10k+ tax bill if they bought today.

 

[RCDave]

For every business that leaves. It seems a new one comes to CA or is a new start up. Being in commercial construction I haven't seen it this busy in years.

Apple vs oranges comparison.
Sounds like part of your retirement income may be tax exempt. Your property taxes are based on assessed value set when you purchased your home. What would those property taxes be if you bought your home today for $450k. And if your paying $350 a year in insurance, I would check to make sure you are properly covered for the cost to rebuild your home. You may not be.

Our home in Ca I bought for $270k 18 years ago and paid just over 3k in tax and 800+ in insurance. Yet my parents have a home valued at over 900k and pay less than 1500 a year on tax cause they bought in ‘73 (thanks to prop 13). They would be staring at a 10k+ tax bill if they bought today.

God bless prop 13

 

[pronstar]

California is a great state.
The only thing wrong is the political climate in California that constantly wants to take your freedoms away as well as your money.

If you are fortunate enough to have an income that supports a nice home, toys and the ability to do whatever you want it’s a great place.

Assuming you’re also ok with the erosion of rights [emoji106]


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[rrrr]

Who in Kalifornia makes 47k, except those on the excessive minimum wage flipping burgers. Lol

Your numbers assume that someone making 47K pays the max income tax rate of 12.3 percent. Wrong.

The $47K number is not mine. It came from boatpi's post stating that adjusted gross incomes at or above that figure were subject to the maximum percentage of California's income tax of 10.75%. This post, and others I've made in this thread, discuss the $47,000 figure and if it's reasonable to assume it is possible to live on that salary.

A $47,000 income is about $22.50 an hour for forty hour work weeks. There are millions of people in California that are living on that income. The 2017 median income in the state was $72,000, and 17.5% of the 39.5 million Californians are employed

There are 58 counties in California, and the median household income in 49 of them is below the 2017 $72,000 state median. Los Angeles county's median household income was $55,870.

I couldn't find California specific numbers, but nationwide 46% of households had two wage earners. It stands to reason California is no different, and millions of those workers' combined earnings are far less than the $72,000 state median household income.

Using the above numbers and a bit of guesswork, the answer to RCDave's question of who makes $47,000 per year is at least 50% of wage earners in California, more than 8,750,000 people and 22% of the total population, live on that wage and support families with it. I'm sure their existence is miserable, but surviving on that amount of money is common.

It's all here:

https://datausa.io/profile/geo/california

 

[RCDave]

The government, liberal politicians, and socialists have done a remarkable job fooling their constituents that taxes and social programs are fair and just.

Sad how easily sheep are trained and herded....

 

[dribble]

Apple vs oranges comparison.
Sounds like part of your retirement income may be tax exempt. Your property taxes are based on assessed value set when you purchased your home. What would those property taxes be if you bought your home today for $450k. And if your paying $350 a year in insurance, I would check to make sure you are properly covered for the cost to rebuild your home. You may not be.

Our home in Ca I bought for $270k 18 years ago and paid just over 3k in tax and 800+ in insurance. Yet my parents have a home valued at over 900k and pay less than 1500 a year on tax cause they bought in ‘73 (thanks to prop 13). They would be staring at a 10k+ tax bill if they bought today.

I think I’m astute enough to make sure I have sufficient insurance coverage. But you’re right about one thing. California does not tax Social Security, irrespective of how much additional income you have

 

[530RL]

Just be an Arizona resident and only go to your house in California 1 day less than 6 months.

All the benefits of Arizona and California with none of the costs.

 

[DRYHEAT]

Assuming you’re also ok with the erosion of rights [emoji106]


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Definitely not OK with it, but that’s only a small portion of the reason I left California 31 years ago.

plain and simple I love the desert. I spent more time driving back-and-forth to the River and out to the desert for my recreational pursuits. Seemed like whenever I did go to the beach it would be overcast all day until it was time to go home. Besides the water at the river was warmer and I like blistering hot.

 

[Nordie]

Mmmmmmm

View attachment 812951

Leave Florida out of this discussion. That's where I want to end up

 

[highvoltagehands]

I’m waiting on when “we develop”.
As if we’re some third-world shithole?

As it stands we’re globally the 10th largest economy. Sure CA is like 5th, I get it.

We’re also manufacturing state - more exports than CA and NY combined.

Don’t project your problems on us.
The only way we become more “like you” is if we keep allowing the progressive agenda to infect our state.
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You are correct Pronstar, Texas kicked California's ass in Manufacturing Exports with $93 Billion more or 62%. But it ends there, California Manufacturing beat Texas in just about every other manufacturing category including Overall and Domestic use Manufacturing output, number of firms, jobs and wages paid.
CA overall total manufacturing output was $74 Billion more or 32.8% higher than Tex,
CA has over twice as many manufacturing firms 18,223 more or 104% more,
CA has 444,810 more manufacturing jobs or 50.495% more.
CA manufacturing paid 24% higher wages than Texas= $20,189 more annually.
Californias higher wages easily cover cost of state income tax.

 

[Bobby V]

The government, liberal politicians, and socialists have done a remarkable job fooling their constituents that taxes and social programs are fair and just.

Sad how easily sheep are trained and herded....

Just curious. What utopian state do you live in?

 

[RCDave]

Just curious. What utopian state do you live in?

Kaliforniastan. Lol

 

[rivermobster]

Just saying...

 

[Yellowboat]

When you add dual six-figure wage earners and relatively low property values to the equation, my wife and I are tens of thousands ahead with no state income tax, despite a higher property tax rate.

But it doesn’t matter because Texas is closed [emoji106]


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Hell all the property I have been looking at would be in the 1-2million range in the Sacramento area. In dfw they are 300-600k.


A good friends neighbour in shingle springs just sold off 10 acres for 300k. Which may sound cheap, only it's all on a 30+ degree slope, has no access and no services. Wells in that area are 500-1200ft deep. I am guessing it will be at least another 400k before you are ready to build. I should also mention that the el dorado building depart me t is a few miles up the road. And getting septic systems approved is a major pita. It has to be active and you can not import soil.


In 2006 I bought a house in bend 1300 sqft 2 bed 2 bath for 117k the permit and fees in the city of Sacramento would have been more then that.

 

[TCHB]

Assuming you’re also ok with the erosion of rights [emoji106]


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The more money you have the more rights you have.

 

[monkeyswrench]

The more money you have the more rights you have.

That is true, but that is not strictly a PRK thing (Peoples Republic of Kalifornia)

Everybody's utopia is different. There a certain parts of Cali I thought I could have lived in. I then realized those parts were almost in other states anyway...

 

[pronstar]

You are correct Pronstar, Texas kicked California's ass in Manufacturing Exports with $93 Billion more or 62%. But it ends there, California Manufacturing beat Texas in just about every other manufacturing category including Overall and Domestic use Manufacturing output, number of firms, jobs and wages paid.
CA overall total manufacturing output was $74 Billion more or 32.8% higher than Tex,
CA has over twice as many manufacturing firms 18,223 more or 104% more,
CA has 444,810 more manufacturing jobs or 50.495% more.
CA manufacturing paid 24% higher wages than Texas= $20,189 more annually.
Californias higher wages easily cover cost of state income tax.

So TX is a third-world shithole?
And as soon as we emerge from the swap, we’ll have the same problems as CA?

That’s the point I was making.

I already noted in my post that our economy, while 10th globally, is behind CA’s.
Doesn’t mean we’re in the stone ages.

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[GRADS]

Me starting a thread on RDP.

 

[RodnJen]

I’m waiting on when “we develop”.
As if we’re some third-world shithole?

As it stands we’re globally the 10th largest economy. Sure CA is like 5th, I get it.

We’re also manufacturing state - more exports than CA and NY combined.

Don’t project your problems on us.
The only way we become more “like you” is if we keep allowing the progressive agenda to infect our state.


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It's not a shithole reference, more of an economic cycle reference. During the 1900's lots of Texans and others came to California for work. Work that started out as agricultural, the evolved to manufacturing now it is functioning as a tech and service economy. This is largely because the natural resources, good weather and beauty of the state drew people here.

We have depleted many of those resources and polluted so many parts of the state. My city is a perfect example of this. It was once a thriving economy following the cycle I just covered and it is now a financial mess. It is a bedroom community with few jobs that pay competitive wages. Real estate is expensive there because it is still a draw. Many of the auto dealerships have been leveled to build apartments or condos. They don't produce much revenue unless you are fortunate enough to be an owner.

As for Texas, it has many resources but many companies passed over Texas to move farther west. Now that there is an economic advantage, including a labor pool that is willing to work, it makes sense for companies to move there. And they have.

Wide open spaces will give way to communities, which will give way to cities, which will give way to a thriving metropolis with a host of big city problems. That's just the cycle.

 

[Yellowboat]

Texas also is business friendly... ca it's all big tech that lives in the 20-50% profit range. Where the little guy is lucky to make 10

 

[pronstar]

It's not a shithole reference, more of an economic cycle reference. During the 1900's lots of Texans and others came to California for work. Work that started out as agricultural, the evolved to manufacturing now it is functioning as a tech and service economy. This is largely because the natural resources, good weather and beauty of the state drew people here.

We have depleted many of those resources and polluted so many parts of the state. My city is a perfect example of this. It was once a thriving economy following the cycle I just covered and it is now a financial mess. It is a bedroom community with few jobs that pay competitive wages. Real estate is expensive there because it is still a draw. Many of the auto dealerships have been leveled to build apartments or condos. They don't produce much revenue unless you are fortunate enough to be an owner.

As for Texas, it has many resources but many companies passed over Texas to move farther west. Now that there is an economic advantage, including a labor pool that is willing to work, it makes sense for companies to move there. And they have.

Wide open spaces will give way to communities, which will give way to cities, which will give way to a thriving metropolis with a host of big city problems. That's just the cycle.

What CA resources have been depleted?
The only depleted resource, is taxpayer wallets.

Neither CA’s economy, nor Texas’ economy, is based on finite resources.

And CA’s problems aren’t due to a depletion of any resource.


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[highvoltagehands]

So TX is a third-world shithole?
And as soon as we emerge from the swap, we’ll have the same problems as CA?

That’s the point I was making.

I already noted in my post that our economy, while 10th globally, is behind CA’s.
Doesn’t mean we’re in the stone ages.

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I think Texas and Arizona are both awesome states that I'd like to live in, but so is California. They all have pros and cons and you won't hear me coming on here to bad mouth someones else's home state. I tend to defend California cause it's home and I may make comparisons showing where it's better than another state if someone berating us, but you'll never hear me call your state a "third-world shithole" just because it's full of "Texicans"

 

[RCDave]

What CA resources have been depleted?
The only depleted resource, is taxpayer wallets.

Neither CA’s economy, nor Texas’ economy, is based on finite resources.

And CA’s problems aren’t due to a depletion of any resource.


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California is surely based on finite resources. The almighty taxpayer....

 

[TCHB]

CA is a big state. I haven't heard of a smog alert like there used to be in the 70's 80's in years.

You are correct Stage smog alerts went away a long long time ago. The power plants went from no Nox controls to catalyst converters which cleaned up our stacks just like a new car.

 

[was thatguy]

I think Texas and Arizona are both awesome states that I'd like to live in, but so is California. They all have pros and cons and you won't hear me coming on here to bad mouth someones else's home state. I tend to defend California cause it's home and I may make comparisons showing where it's better than another state if someone berating us, but you'll never hear me call your state a "third-world shithole" just because it's full of "Texicans"

You make some good points in this thread.

Back when I was pulling the same income as you, living on our 4 acres in Anderson was our utopia.

We all know what happened next.

But speaking strictly financially, when I dropped to $100-$150K (single income obviously) all the things that people bitch about, and I never worried about, suddenly came into focus.
Living between Sac and SF was in itself a big shock, but dong it on half the income exacerbated the situation dramatically.
The social environment coupled with living expenses suddenly revealed the reality of CA living on less than a quarter million a year.

Granted, our plans for growing old on our little slice of heaven took a great big shit, and can never be relived, but money wise for me it was a no brainer to leave when I took a good hard look at what it cost the “normal” shmuck to live there.

 

[DRYHEAT]

You make some good points in this thread.

Back when I was pulling the same income as you, living on our 4 acres in Anderson was our utopia.

We all know what happened next.

But speaking strictly financially, when I dropped to $100-$150K (single income obviously) all the things that people bitch about, and I never worried about, suddenly came into focus.
Living between Sac and SF was in itself a big shock, but dong it on half the income exacerbated the situation dramatically.
The social environment coupled with living expenses suddenly revealed the reality of CA living on less than a quarter million a year.

Granted, our plans for growing old on our little slice of heaven took a great big shit, and can never be relived, but money wise for me it was a no brainer to leave when I took a good hard look at what it cost the “normal” shmuck to live there.

Wait.... there’s “normal” schmucks on RDP? Who knew?

 

[was thatguy]

Wait.... there’s “normal” schmucks on RDP? Who knew?

Present and accounted for!

 

[buck35]

If you are ok with not knowing the people that live next door ,being in traffic hours on end to make the big bucks, I'm sure it's great....but it ain't for everyone.

 

[RodnJen]

What CA resources have been depleted?
The only depleted resource, is taxpayer wallets.

Neither CA’s economy, nor Texas’ economy, is based on finite resources.

And CA’s problems aren’t due to a depletion of any resource.


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Water, soil, minerals, precious metals, etc. the bigger issue is pollution and toxic waste. We’ve done a lot to correct that, but it has created a headwind for business, thankfully.

 

[GRADS]

With air quality you need a fork and knife for...

I'll take clear skies, and clearly spoken english.
....and a governor that doesn't look like used car salesman.

You've obviously never been to NorCal.

 

[monkeyswrench]

You've obviously never been to NorCal.

I liked NorCal, but didn't like pot farms...but they were also illegal then. Sonoma is beautiful country, but overrun with libs and corkdorks...different era, yes, I'd be running cattle there. A million 2 for a 5 acre lot? Nope, not me. The farmland interior is nice, I like the open spaces. The problem is, can't get away from the tentacles of Sacramento